The Kickstarter Chronicles

Monday, June 4, 2012

Since Paizo and Goblinworks first announced the Kickstarter project to fund a technology demo of the Pathfinder Online MMO game, one of the most common questions both on our forums and on the Kickstarter project page has been: how will this work with Pathfinder Society Organized Play?

Backers who pledge at least $15 will receive the PDF of Thornkeep, an all-new Pathfinder Roleplaying Game sourcebook written by industry superstar Rich Baker, containing not only a gazetteer of the River Kingdoms “hive of scum and villainy” that will play a prominent role in the online game, but also a massive dungeon with levels designed by Baker, Paizo Lead Designer Jason Bulmahn, Paizo Creative Director James Jacobs, and Paizo Publisher Erik Mona, and if the project nets $175,000, all levels of the dungeon will be included in the printed version of the book with an expanded page count.

And we plan to release Chronicle sheets to give Pathfinder Society characters venturing into the dungeons beneath Thornkeep an in-world benefit for surviving the dungeons within. The fact that all backers will have the opportunity to select the theme of each dungeon layer beyond the first means it’s a rare chance for Pathfinder Society GMs and players to help decide what adventures their PCs will take part in. And by backing the project, you ensure that you’ll have access to those levels when they’re released.

So make sure you check out the Kickstarter project, consider backing it, and spread the word to your fellow Pathfinder Society members. The project ends this week, so don’t wait. This is your chance to help make the Pathfinder Online game a reality, and decide the flavor of an all-star multilevel dungeon that promises to go down in Pathfinder history!

Mark Moreland
Developer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Goblinworks Pathfinder Online Pathfinder Society
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Does this mean there's actually a small chance we'll get to see you play online Yoda ...er, Mark?

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Any news on weather this will be released to the general public in some fashion?

If it is just for the Kickstarter backers, this won't have a very large PFS audience.

Dark Archive 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

Dragnmoon, this is how they are trying to get more backers, why would they release it to the general public?

FWIW I just increased by backing amount a hefty sum because of this. 4 days, $21,679 left to go!

723 $30 backers to go!

Silver Crusade

Happy to support it at the PDF level, but $50 was too much for the print version unfortunately as I collect all the Pathfinder hard copy.

Grand Lodge

Yeah, $50 for a 64 page book is crazy.

Keep your computer game out of my paper and pencil world.

Silver Crusade

Narl wrote:

Yeah, $50 for a 64 page book is crazy.

Keep your computer game out of my paper and pencil world.

Well to be fair, we're supporting the Pathfinder Online game and getting the PDF as a thank you, but the end result for me is still the same: I have to miss a Pathfinder print release. :(

Dark Archive 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

You also get the PDF of the book and become a member of the Goblin Squad. It's not JUST the 64 page book.

Granted, if you are just wanting the Thornkeep book and don't have the inclination to play the game, just supporting for the PDF is cool too :P

Silver Crusade

Todd Morgan wrote:

You also get the PDF of the book and become a member of the Goblin Squad. It's not JUST the 64 page book.

Granted, if you are just wanting the Thornkeep book and don't have the inclination to play the game, just supporting for the PDF is cool too :P

Oh I'm ridiculously excited for Pathfinder Online. If the Goblin Squad promised an exclusive in game pet, I'd be all over the $50 level!

It's not too late, Goblinworks! *wink*

Grand Lodge

I quit computer gaming a few years ago so I'd have more time for everything else, especially tabletop gaming. Though I'm often tempted to dip back into it, I plan to continue to resist. So for me, the only thing worthwhile in the Kickstarter is the physical book.

I personally wish that greater separation was kept between Pathfinder as a pencil and paper RPG and the MMO venture.

Silver Crusade

Narl wrote:

I quit computer gaming a few years ago so I'd have more time for everything else, especially tabletop gaming. Though I'm often tempted to dip back into it, I plan to continue to resist. So for me, the only thing worthwhile in the Kickstarter is the physical book.

I personally wish that greater separation was kept between Pathfinder as a pencil and paper RPG and the MMO venture.

I can definitely understand and respect that, but for me the synchronicity is really exciting; just as the link between the Pathfinder comic and the game is.

Not the biggest PC gamer as most of my gaming is on iOS, with some PS3 filling in the gaps, but a sandbox MMO set in my fave campaign world is my weakness.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

Narl wrote:
Yeah, $50 for a 64 page book is crazy.

If we hit the $175,000 stretch goal, then it will be a larger-than-64 page book. The extra game content is already being produced, and Pathfinder Society players will be able to get a Chronicle for playing the Thornkeep dungeon levels—now it's just a race to get the printed book's page count increased.

Thanks to all who have supported, on any level!


Narl wrote:
I personally wish that greater separation was kept between Pathfinder as a pencil and paper RPG and the MMO venture.

What's good for one is good for the other. People getting involved with the online game will make the jump to pen and paper and vice-versa. Also, one does not preclude the other which means Paizo can have a broader financial base. Having PFO landmarks in PF games and the other way around is really no different than Spiderman showing up in a Fantastic Four comic.

If PFO were based in a completely different campaign world then you would have a point. On the bright side, you're getting an AP size PDF for $15 of new stuff to insert into your campaigns.


Todd Morgan wrote:

Dragnmoon, this is how they are trying to get more backers, why would they release it to the general public?

FWIW I just increased by backing amount a hefty sum because of this. 4 days, $21,679 left to go!

723 $30 backers to go!

I tossed $15 at it just not. It's not much, but it's what I could afford. I really want to see Paizo hit its goal here.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I am in for $50 -- but i will double it -- if i can convince ten new kickstarters to put in $15 each. Post below with challenge accepted!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dragnmoon wrote:

Any news on weather this will be released to the general public in some fashion?

If it is just for the Kickstarter backers, this won't have a very large PFS audience.

I can tell you that we're not going to print only... quickly adds up Kickstarter backers currently getting the printed copy ...1257 copies of the book; the per-unit cost on that small a run would be ludicrous. So there *will* be other ways to get that book. But for now, this is the only one we've revealed. (If you're being price-sensitive, though, don't expect us to undercut our backers here!)

Dark Archive

I put in enough for the poster. Need more art for my nerd cave.

3/5

I realize that plans can't likely be changed at this point...but if we don't get to the $175,000 mark it seems completely silly to me to have dungeons from such renowned designers be relegated to PDF only with 32 pages of the print book being comprised of Goblinworks "behind the scenes" fluff.

Wouldn't it make more sense, and ultimately make the book more marketable when it becomes available on a wider scale, to have the book comprised completely of RPG content and publish the Goblinworks propaganda as a PDF?

5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northeast aka Shivok

I'm hoping that each dungeon level represents a single chronicle sheet.

That way a GM can run multiple dungeon levels. I can see running this in a convention over several slots. Would be awesome.


Yep, I kicked in at the $15 level nominally to support the Tech Demo, but mostly to get the PDF. I was slightly deflated to find out the MMO won't be using PF rules, and really hope the MMO doesn't take too long to include Summoners and Witches as playable classes...

Scarab Sages

This has definitely just confirmed that I will be adding to the total shot at the $175,000 goal. I *really wanted to see Erik Mona write a level, and now, seeing it in print will be even better. AND I get it signed, I get a t-shirt,I get a poster, *AND* I get PFS Chornicle(s) with it?

Here, take my money! Please! No, I mean it ... now! TAKE MAH MONIEZ!!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Deane Beman wrote:

I realize that plans can't likely be changed at this point...but if we don't get to the $175,000 mark it seems completely silly to me to have dungeons from such renowned designers be relegated to PDF only with 32 pages of the print book being comprised of Goblinworks "behind the scenes" fluff.

Wouldn't it make more sense, and ultimately make the book more marketable when it becomes available on a wider scale, to have the book comprised completely of RPG content and publish the Goblinworks propaganda as a PDF?

This would suit me best too, to be frank. However, one would have to think there are at least some backers who dont play the PnP game and who are only interested in the computer game. They might be a little perplexed (or worse, put off becoming backers) if one of their perks was a book they'd have no use for.

Like I say, your idea would suit me better (and I have no idea of the size of the 'computer game only' cohort), but it probably makes a certain sense to ensure that the tangible perks are closely tied to the actual project being funded.

Scarab Sages Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Utrecht aka Maglok

Kicked in for the hardcopy since it includes shipping. I am used to high prices due to living in europe. I wish Paizo had a european distributor but hey. :)

Do want to get to 175K please!

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I admit, I am a Pathfinder nerd, but I don't like MMOs.
So I 'm not a backer. But I really hope, to be able to one day get Thornkeep in PDF or print form...


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dryder wrote:

I admit, I am a Pathfinder nerd, but I don't like MMOs.

So I 'm not a backer. But I really hope, to be able to one day get Thornkeep in PDF or print form...

Being a backer is the quickest and surest way. Plus, it's paizo's preferred method of picking it up.

Being a fan of MMOs isn't necessary - you can get the PDF for $15 (which is pretty good value, depending on how many pages the dungeon levels come in at). The hardcopy is pricey, but Vic mentioned that waiting isn't going to net you a price advantage, so presumably it's not going to get any cheaper.

Obviously you could have many reasons for avoiding backing this project, but don't discount it just because you're uninterested in the MMO. There's still the possibility of supporting a paizo endeavor and it's likely to be your best way to pick up an all-stars superdungeon. :)

(also, if print is important to you, remember that the dungeon levels will never make it to print without a late surge of backers. More strictly non-MMO related reasons to get involved!)

The Exchange

BraxtheSage wrote:
I am in for $50 -- but i will double it -- if i can convince ten new kickstarters to put in $15 each. Post below with challenge accepted!

Tell you what. I accept your challenge. And kicked it to $75 which may count as five kickstarters donating $15.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Awesome -- thanks Reck!

Sovereign Court

Very disappointed to see hard-working Paizo staff taken away from the PFRPG stuff.

Also, very disappointed to have Paizo try to generate cash for the computer game from people who are not interested in the computer game.

I am one of those whose instinct is to be a Golarion completist but this kind of manipulation of those sentiments sticks in the craw.

Why isn't the kickstarter being promoted with more MMORPG stuff? Why use PFRPG?

3/5

Steve Geddes wrote:
This would suit me best too, to be frank. However, one would have to think there are at least some backers who dont play the PnP game and who are only interested in the computer game.

I'm willing to bet even money that, while not every tabletop RPG player supports the Pathfinder MMO; at this stage everyone who supports the MMO is a also a Pathfinder RPG player.

And I mean really...there are already dozens of pictures of Ryan available online...do we really need to put them in a book as well? 8-)

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

GeraintElberion wrote:

Very disappointed to see hard-working Paizo staff taken away from the PFRPG stuff.

Also, very disappointed to have Paizo try to generate cash for the computer game from people who are not interested in the computer game.

I am one of those whose instinct is to be a Golarion completist but this kind of manipulation of those sentiments sticks in the craw.

Why isn't the kickstarter being promoted with more MMORPG stuff? Why use PFRPG?

In short, because the game is Pathfinder Online, also referenced as PFMMORPG or PF-MMO-RPG.

Pathfinder as an online MMO.

Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.

As to not being interested, just trash the emails, ignore the link on the left, and the threads and forum for it. There, all better now, no more Pathfinder Online for you.

Sovereign Court

kinevon wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

Very disappointed to see hard-working Paizo staff taken away from the PFRPG stuff.

Also, very disappointed to have Paizo try to generate cash for the computer game from people who are not interested in the computer game.

I am one of those whose instinct is to be a Golarion completist but this kind of manipulation of those sentiments sticks in the craw.

Why isn't the kickstarter being promoted with more MMORPG stuff? Why use PFRPG?

In short, because the game is Pathfinder Online, also referenced as PFMMORPG or PF-MMO-RPG.

Pathfinder as an online MMO.

Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.

It's not though, is it.

It is not using the Pathfinder ruleset. So it is not PFPRG.

It's just licensed from Paizo and uses part of Golarion as the basis for the setting.

kinevon wrote:


As to not being interested, just trash the emails, ignore the link on the left, and the threads and forum for it. There, all better now, no more Pathfinder Online for you.

I think you may be missing my point, I'll try to be as clear as possible.

My concern is not whether or not the MMORPG exists, I am happy for there to be such a game for those who want it.

My concern is twofold:
1. That it takes talent like JB, JJ and EM away from PFRPG
2. That the urge which I, and others like me, feel to be Golarion completists is being exploited/manipulated/whatever to fund the MMORPG.

This leads to the entirely reasonable question: Why isn't the kickstarter being promoted with more MMORPG stuff?

Sovereign Court

kinevon wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

Very disappointed to see hard-working Paizo staff taken away from the PFRPG stuff.

Also, very disappointed to have Paizo try to generate cash for the computer game from people who are not interested in the computer game.

I am one of those whose instinct is to be a Golarion completist but this kind of manipulation of those sentiments sticks in the craw.

Why isn't the kickstarter being promoted with more MMORPG stuff? Why use PFRPG?

In short, because the game is Pathfinder Online, also referenced as PFMMORPG or PF-MMO-RPG.

Pathfinder as an online MMO.

Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.

As to not being interested, just trash the emails, ignore the link on the left, and the threads and forum for it. There, all better now, no more Pathfinder Online for you.

Oh, and that thing you did with the list that is patronising and rude. Please, don't bring the lovely Paizo boards down with that kind of stuff.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.
GeraintElberion wrote:

My concern is not whether or not the MMORPG exists, I am happy for there to be such a game for those who want it.

My concern is twofold:
1. That it takes talent like JB, JJ and EM away from PFRPG
2. That the urge which I, and others like me, feel to be Golarion completists is being exploited/manipulated/whatever to fund the MMORPG.

This leads to the entirely reasonable question: Why isn't the kickstarter being promoted with more MMORPG stuff?

Just to clarify a few points here:

1) Jason, James, and Erik will be writing their dungeon levels in the same format and using the same rules we use in all our Pathfinder RPG adventures. Their efforts will be supporting the existing pen and paper roleplaying game, and will be done as freelance work—meaning they won't be taking time from their normal design, development, and publishing jobs to do it; all additional content will be done "off the clock" the same as all freelance work done by Paizo staffers.

2) Vic has stated elsewhere that the economics of printing a book for only the number of backers we have on this project would make it impossible not to overprint this. There will likely be ways to complete your Golarion collection by purchasing this book at a later date without backing the Kickstarter, though such products will likely cost the same as if you had backed the Kickstarter (so as not to undercut those who backed it initially). The benefit of buying it now is that it will help give the project the backing needed to print the entire dungeon complex in the printed book instead of just in PDF form. Purchasing the book after the fact (regardless of how large the printed book ends up being) will not affect the outcome of the Kickstarter stretch goal target.

Regarding your reasonable question: quite simply, because we can't promise something that we can't promise. The Kickstarter project isn't for the complete game, so we can't have folks who back it get the finished game. We can say with certainty, however, that this book will come out, and can provide a reasonable estimate of when. So we can offer it as a perk to those who back the MMO. You'll note, as well, that the higher backer tiers do include more MMO-centric elements like getting to play the tech demo or visiting the Goblinworks offices. Those just aren't something we can offer to all 2,000+ backers at all levels.

Dark Archive 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

$12,088 left to go!

403 book backers left or 806 PDF backers! Get the word out people, Facebook, Twitter....Myspace?....whatever!

Dark Archive 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

Also hilarious, I'm almost 30 and my mother from across the state offered to pledge. If she can do it, so can anyone!

Paizo Employee CEO

GeraintElberion wrote:

My concern is twofold:

1. That it takes talent like JB, JJ and EM away from PFRPG
2. That the urge which I, and others like me, feel to be Golarion completists is being exploited/manipulated/whatever to fund the MMORPG.

This leads to the entirely reasonable question: Why isn't the kickstarter being promoted with more MMORPG stuff?

It isn't taking JB, JJ and EM away from PFRPG. Their work is freelance work and will be done on their own time (which means they get paid freelance for that work). If they weren't doing these dungeon levels, they would be playing video games or reading a book or watching TV or movies or making beer or whatever they would normally be doing outside of work. In fact, this Kickstarter is getting them to do MORE PFRPG stuff, not less, since their dungeons are being written for the PFRPG rules.

The reason why the Kickstarter isn't being promoted with MMORPG rewards is because this particular Kickstarter is promoting a demo that we can use to get the MMO funded. Thus, there isn't anything that we can use in the MMORPG as Kickstarter rewards since there isn't going to be a game that everyone can play when we are done making the demo. And I refuse to sell stuff that I don't know that I can deliver upon (ie. MMORPG specific rewards). I know that I can deliver a very cool book. That is a given. So I decided that the featured product would be a book product that folks could use in their tabletop game. If there was ever a Kickstarter down the road a bit to fund the final MMORPG, you can bet that the rewards would all be about things in the MMO. But this being for a tech demo, we didn't have that ability. So you have the Thornkeep book.

We aren't manipulating or exploiting you any more than we normally do when we announce cool products that you want to buy. Our job as a publisher is to make products that are so cool that you feel compelled to purchase them. If only I had a nickel for every time I have seen on these boards a comment like "Damn you Paizo! I thought I was done buying (insert product line here), but them you come out and release (insert new product for that product line). Now I need to keep buying. Well, I guess my kids can starve another month. Curse you!"

If you want the cool stuff we are going to have for the PFRPG tabletop game in the Thornkeep book, then back the Kickstarter and get the product. If you don't, that is fine too. We don't want to force anybody to buy any of our products. And if you feel you just HAVE to have the book but don't want to buy it through our Kickstarter, I bet there will be copies on eBay not too long after they are delivered to Kickstarter customers.

-Lisa

Sczarni 5/5

Kickstarted $100. Let's do this!

Grand Lodge

Lisa Stevens wrote:


It isn't taking JB, JJ and EM away from PFRPG. Their work is freelance work and will be done on their own time (which means they get paid freelance for that work). If they weren't doing these dungeon levels, they would be playing video games or reading a book or watching TV or movies or making beer or whatever they would normally be doing outside of work.

I bet Jason doesnt stop making beer long enough to make these levels. :P

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Central Europe aka Thamius

Lisa Stevens wrote:
If only I had a nickel for every time I have seen on these boards a comment like "Damn you Paizo! I thought I was done buying (insert product line here), but them you come out and release (insert new product for that product line). Now I need to keep buying. Well, I guess my kids can starve another month. Curse you!"

As the CEO, I'm pretty sure you are getting a nickel (or three) every time we say that! :p

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Todd Morgan wrote:
Also hilarious, I'm almost 30 and my mother from across the state offered to pledge. If she can do it, so can anyone!

Next time we meet I will expect the respect I deserve from you for being your Elder young wipper snapper!

Damn Todd did not know you were 10 years younger then me.


$113,442 over the goal seems like enough that a hardcover run of the pdf could be produced, yet somehow it takes $125,000 over the initial goal to even start thinking of making a small 64 or so page softcover printing, how does that math work out?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
BraxtheSage wrote:
I am in for $50 -- but i will double it -- if i can convince ten new kickstarters to put in $15 each. Post below with challenge accepted!

Brax, I just created a Kickstarter account and am in for the $50 level.

Angus

Dark Archive 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

Dragnmoon wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
Also hilarious, I'm almost 30 and my mother from across the state offered to pledge. If she can do it, so can anyone!

Next time we meet I will expect the respect I deserve from you for being your Elder young wipper snapper!

Damn Todd did not know you were 10 years younger then me.

But I'm your superior as a VO.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Nukruh wrote:
$113,442 over the goal seems like enough that a hardcover run of the pdf could be produced, yet somehow it takes $125,000 over the initial goal to even start thinking of making a small 64 or so page softcover printing, how does that math work out?

Because the largest share is for the Kickstarter, not the bonus. The bonus is there to entice us.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Todd Morgan wrote:
But I'm your superior as a VO.

hmmmmm.... Venture-Captain, Iowa—Iowa City.... Nop I live no where near there.

Get off my lawn!!!


With 175k being the magic number to make a print run possible, it proves otherwise.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Nukruh wrote:
With 175k being the magic number to make a print run possible, it proves otherwise.

It doesn't prove anything other than the folks at Paizo are good at developing incentives.

Grand Lodge

I am amazed by the number of people who are in this thread just to complain about how the Kickstarter is beging handled.

Paizo Employee CEO

Nukruh wrote:
$113,442 over the goal seems like enough that a hardcover run of the pdf could be produced, yet somehow it takes $125,000 over the initial goal to even start thinking of making a small 64 or so page softcover printing, how does that math work out?

Actually, we have been doing the "small" 64-page printing all along. The $175k goal makes the 64-page print book a 96-page print book. If we don't reach that goal, then there will be a 64-page printed book and a PDF of the additional dungeon levels.

-Lisa

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Nukruh wrote:
With 175k being the magic number to make a print run possible, it proves otherwise.

Um, no, there is a print run already setup for the book. The $175K is to add additional material, the three extra dungeon levels, to the printed hardcopy book.

Current book: Basic dungeon, company background, information related to the PFO demo.

175K Book: All of the above, PLUS three additional, high profile contributor, dungeon levels.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Awesome Armac -- just need 3 more .... c'mon people!

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