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15 sessions seems a bit high. If one assumes 4 sessions a day, for 3 days, you only get 12 sessions. And most areas can only do 3 sessions a day. This rather crushes the chances of smaller conventions of ever getting special boons, which might help PFS grow in that area.If they're only running 1 or 2 tables a slot, sure. But to get 15 sessions over a two-day convention (let's assume 5 total slots for the show), you only need to run 3 tables each slot.
I really, really have to agree with Alexander on this one. Smaller cons shouldn't be punished for not getting their numbers up. A two-day con with limited time might only have four slots - if you run 3 tables per slot, you have 12 tables, and even adding another table to two slots (and coordinating additional GMs - especially worse if you're in a less-populated area), you're not gonna make it. Those aren't unrealistic numbers at a small con where someone is just trying to break PFS onto the scene with minimal resources. I've been there - I coordinated only two RPGA tables and the general gaming room events at BabelCon in Baton Rouge, 2008. I could totally see trying to push those boundaries and failing miserably, all because of local numbers - plus, then you look and feel like a loser for not getting the better convention treatment, and it passively looks bad on the convention (more so if people are gossipy and judgmental in the area - and more common among gamers).
On an unrelated note, will there ever be a level of popularity in the general game products where other adventuring resources could be offered for a non-Society, non-Golarion, or other homebrew adventure? And before anyone goes flaming on how difficult it would be for chronicling, I mean that any characters/chronicles/rewards/other details would be completely separate from the Society-style in-setting gaming. IE, I have my characters that do Society adventures, and then for my PF-Homebrew segment I have my other characters, neither of which can transition to the other segment (just like different characters can't use your other chars' chronicle rewards, and players can't play each other's characters, etc, etc). The beauty being the GM's final-word in PFS characters transitioning over into homebrew (like a post-retirement, or parallel-universe session), with no crossing back into PFS-Golarion.
My rationalization is this: when I was in RPGA for D&D3.5, you had the option of playing/hosting official setting sessions from Living Forgotten Realms, Living Kingdoms of Kalamar, etc. - but you always had the option of running a Home campaign for the same kind of credit, with the same support from the site calendar, etc., but of course, at the discretion of the GM (like I believe most GMs and experienced players would prefer, and new players wouldn't even notice much). While it would mean that someone might earn one, a hundred, or even way too much credit while playing a hybrid-PF/OGL-Modern/Traveller, someone could just as easily earn credit doing Kingmaker, individual modules, or even a campaign arc custom created around the Sargava companion (seen it, and it out-competed official PFS game tables in local interest), or a post-retirement arc for PFS players who liked their characters enough to keep going on their own, even after 12th-level modules. In any case, a chronicle would most likely only count at the same GM's tables, and if another GM were to choose to allow someone else's table chronicle - well, the GM's discretion would allow it! It would still allow for the marketing ties to Pathfinder products (even those that are not already directly-pertinent to PFS players, such as very popular APs), and even allow for us third-party publishers to make a bit of a showing. The wall between PFS-Golarion and PFS-Homebrew could be absolute and unchanging - sort of like the lawful and chaotic extremes of "organized gaming". PS: I hate that term. All gaming had to be organized in one way or another. PFS is setting-specific, no-house-rules gaming. Homebrew gaming with products or setting elements outside the current PFS scope are no less organized.
There's so many PF products that can't be used, or are limited in some way - plus, the fact that all the books say, "the GM has the final say" isn't really true in this case. For a first-time player trying to understand the basics, this can be really confusing and frustrating - not to mention, when you say, "Oh yeah, and you have to choose a Faction". A what? Is that in the core rulebook? Worse still if you have to recite some semi-memorized blurb about each of them because you don't own the PFS sourcebook or have it on hand. Also, is the Beginner Box adventure sanctioned? If not, it's just another example.
Is there some critical state of popularity in PFS or the PF game in general where this will ever become a possibility?
So while the update to Convention Support is being finalized, just what is currently available as convention support? I am helping run a convention Feb 24-26 and we are really hoping to have 12-18 tables of PFS over the weekend, though I am not sure how it will all work out, as our local V-C will not be available that weekend and I do not know if any of the V-L's in Virginia have contacted our gaming staff.
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15 sessions seems a bit high. If one assumes 4 sessions a day, for 3 days, you only get 12 sessions. And most areas can only do 3 sessions a day. This rather crushes the chances of smaller conventions of ever getting special boons, which might help PFS grow in that area.If they're only running 1 or 2 tables a slot, sure. But to get 15 sessions over a two-day convention (let's assume 5 total slots for the show), you only need to run 3 tables each slot.I really, really have to agree with Alexander on this one.
stuff:Smaller cons shouldn't be punished for not getting their numbers up. A two-day con with limited time might only have four slots - if you run 3 tables per slot, you have 12 tables, and even adding another table to two slots (and coordinating additional GMs - especially worse if you're in a less-populated area), you're not gonna make it. Those aren't unrealistic numbers at a small con where someone is just trying to break PFS onto the scene with minimal resources. I've been there - I coordinated only two RPGA tables and the general gaming room events at BabelCon in Baton Rouge, 2008. I could totally see trying to push those boundaries and failing miserably, all because of local numbers - plus, then you look and feel like a loser for not getting the better convention treatment, and it passively looks bad on the convention (more so if people are gossipy and judgmental in the area - and more common among gamers).On an unrelated note, will there ever be a level of popularity in the general game products where other adventuring resources could be offered for a non-Society, non-Golarion, or other homebrew adventure? And before anyone goes flaming on how difficult it would be for chronicling, I mean that any characters/chronicles/rewards/other details would be completely separate from the Society-style in-setting gaming. IE, I have my characters that do Society adventures, and then for my PF-Homebrew segment I have my other...
I think this topic and all those PFSers who want to jabber about it should move to another thread...PLEASE. You've wholly derailed this thread about the new guide to PFS, which I was quite enjoying.
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So while the update to Convention Support is being finalized, just what is currently available as convention support? I am helping run a convention Feb 24-26 and we are really hoping to have 12-18 tables of PFS over the weekend, though I am not sure how it will all work out, as our local V-C will not be available that weekend and I do not know if any of the V-L's in Virginia have contacted our gaming staff.
Wow took 4 tries to write this post. Post Monster is hungry....
Enevhar if send me the schedule your posting for Mysticon and I can get some special stuff sent you way.
So while the update to Convention Support is being finalized, just what is currently available as convention support? I am helping run a convention Feb 24-26 and we are really hoping to have 12-18 tables of PFS over the weekend, though I am not sure how it will all work out, as our local V-C will not be available that weekend and I do not know if any of the V-L's in Virginia have contacted our gaming staff.Wow took 4 tries to write this post. Post Monster is hungry....
Enevhar if send me the schedule your posting for Mysticon and I can get some special stuff sent you way.
That is cool, Paul. I was not sure if you had anything already on hand or if things would have to come from Mike and Mark.
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How long until this goes into effect?
I ask because I've been running Academy of Secrets as a sanctioned module for four sessions now, but three of the players don't have PFS characters remotely near the appropiate level. We're scheduled to finish the module this Saturday (it's taken a while, for several reasons), will they still be able to apply the sheet to their PFS characters?
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"Now, the sanctioned modules must be played by a character within one level of the module’s starting level. I know this is not a popular decision for some. However, campaign leadership feels this change is what is best for the campaign. Death and use of consumables now have consequences."
THANK YOU. Sanctioned modules just went from "why bother" to a vibrant, exciting part of the campaign.
How long until this goes into effect?
I ask because I've been running Academy of Secrets as a sanctioned module for four sessions now, but three of the players don't have PFS characters remotely near the appropiate level. We're scheduled to finish the module this Saturday (it's taken a while, for several reasons), will they still be able to apply the sheet to their PFS characters?
The standard is that the new rules go into effect as soon as the new version of the Guide is released. Which means today all the changes are official and in effect. Pathfinder Society does not work the way Magic: the Gathering works, which gives a one month warning/grace period before changes go into effect.
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How long until this goes into effect?
I ask because I've been running Academy of Secrets as a sanctioned module for four sessions now, but three of the players don't have PFS characters remotely near the appropiate level. We're scheduled to finish the module this Saturday (it's taken a while, for several reasons), will they still be able to apply the sheet to their PFS characters?
I was going to ask the same thing, we're three sessions into a four to five session module (short sessions). At some time Mike had said there was going to be a grace period if you had started the scenario before hand.
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The standard is that the new rules go into effect as soon as the new version of the Guide is released. Which means today all the changes are official and in effect. Pathfinder Society does not work the way Magic: the Gathering works, which gives a one month warning/grace period before changes go into effect.How long until this goes into effect?
I ask because I've been running Academy of Secrets as a sanctioned module for four sessions now, but three of the players don't have PFS characters remotely near the appropiate level. We're scheduled to finish the module this Saturday (it's taken a while, for several reasons), will they still be able to apply the sheet to their PFS characters?
Despite what Enevhar just said, I am sure there will be no issue of using the old rules since you started before the change.
I doubt they would want you to waste 4 sessions.
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The standard is that the new rules go into effect as soon as the new version of the Guide is released. Which means today all the changes are official and in effect. Pathfinder Society does not work the way Magic: the Gathering works, which gives a one month warning/grace period before changes go into effect.How long until this goes into effect?
I ask because I've been running Academy of Secrets as a sanctioned module for four sessions now, but three of the players don't have PFS characters remotely near the appropiate level. We're scheduled to finish the module this Saturday (it's taken a while, for several reasons), will they still be able to apply the sheet to their PFS characters?
There was originally some discussion about grandfathering modules in process prior to the new guide coming out. I believe that there was mention about contacting your venture-captain. What, if any, guidelines are there for modles in progress?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Enevhar, that hasn't always been the case.
Each time a batch of Season Zero scenarios was to be removed from Pathfinder Society play, we were given some lead time to play out any planned sessions.
I was expecting something like this decision, but I was also expecting the same kind of warning period. My PC from Razmiran has just tonight passed out of the legal range for "Masks of the Living God", and I regret not playing this level at slow progression.
I'm currently pouty, but I will shake the chip off my shoulder.
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The standard is that the new rules go into effect as soon as the new version of the Guide is released. Which means today all the changes are official and in effect. Pathfinder Society does not work the way Magic: the Gathering works, which gives a one month warning/grace period before changes go into effect.How long until this goes into effect?
I ask because I've been running Academy of Secrets as a sanctioned module for four sessions now, but three of the players don't have PFS characters remotely near the appropiate level. We're scheduled to finish the module this Saturday (it's taken a while, for several reasons), will they still be able to apply the sheet to their PFS characters?
So do they still get the scenario sheet and can they apply it to a character they level up eventually, or not?
It does feel a bit unfair, that some of the players get a benefit and noone else does. I really wish we had known in advance.
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So do they still get the scenario sheet and can they apply it to a character they level up eventually, or not?
It does feel a bit unfair, that some of the players get a benefit and noone else does. I really wish we had known in advance.
#1 I'd wait and see if Mark or Mike has some comment on the whole in progress thing before complaining (too much).
#2 We were notified in advance, there was a blog entry about it.
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The standard is that the new rules go into effect as soon as the new version of the Guide is released. Which means today all the changes are official and in effect. Pathfinder Society does not work the way Magic: the Gathering works, which gives a one month warning/grace period before changes go into effect.How long until this goes into effect?
I ask because I've been running Academy of Secrets as a sanctioned module for four sessions now, but three of the players don't have PFS characters remotely near the appropiate level. We're scheduled to finish the module this Saturday (it's taken a while, for several reasons), will they still be able to apply the sheet to their PFS characters?
So that cure moderate wounds drinking contest they got into before the rules announcement was a bad idea?
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ALRIGHT!! GREAT !
My Osirion Fighter/Living Monolith can now (at least in theory) become a 12' tall immortal statue standing in the desert sands watching over the tombs of ancient ancestors! Frankly, they could strip every other benefit from the Prestige Class, and I would still play it, just to get to 15th level and a Master Ka Stone. Boom!
Now, my question: I realize that high level adventures are going to be scarce ... mostly at cons and things. Are there sanctioned modules that can grant those last two levels? [Edit: or rather, can Academy of Secrets, and Tomb of the Iron Medusa be used to get to 15th level (since they're for 13th and 14th level characters)?
And also, will there be one of those high-level tables at PaizoCon this year?
Immortality, for the WIN!!! Boom! (Unless you take his head - there can be only one!)
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If you have started a module, especially via PbP, you may finish that module to conclusion under the old rules. If you are in an extended PbP that lasts months, you have until GenCon to finish. Venture-Captain Diego Winterborg is overseeing the admin of this. Please contact him if you are in the midst of an ongoing module.
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"Now, the sanctioned modules must be played by a character within one level of the module’s starting level. I know this is not a popular decision for some. However, campaign leadership feels this change is what is best for the campaign. Death and use of consumables now have consequences."
THANK YOU. Sanctioned modules just went from "why bother" to a vibrant, exciting part of the campaign.
And, oddly enough, given the dynamics, at present, of the local area, it feels just the opposite to me.
Indeed, of the general crop of local players, I think I am one of the few who has a character in the right level range to play the capstone module for Season 3. Indeed, I think I may have the highest level character in my local area.
And, now, I have to rethink on which f my PCs is going to get credit for the module I am running this coming Saturday, since it is no longer legal to credit to the PC I wanted to give the credit to.
Maybe, someday, I will be able to run something besides Tier 1 and subtier 1-2 scenarios & modules....
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Well, I just answered part of the question for myself: I finally found the sentence I was looking for in the new Guide to OP...... can Academy of Secrets, and Tomb of the Iron Medusa [sanctioned modules] be used to get to 15th level (since they're for 13th and 14th level characters)?
And also, will there be one of those high-level tables at PaizoCon this year?Upon reaching 13th level, a character may no longer play Tier 12 adventures, but may play any number of Tier 13 and higher events, scenarios, or sanctioned Pathfinder Modules, advancing 1 level every 3 XP as normal.That's fantastic!
But, I'm still curious whether this year's events (since they are likely already well-planned, I should think) will have the high-level games in them, or not.
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But, I'm still curious whether this year's events (since they are likely already well-planned, I should think) will have the high-level games in them, or not.
For the near and some what far future they have said they have no plans to support higher level 12 play beyond the Modules.
I would expect years before we see anything but Modules.
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Also, it just occurred to me: Can a level 12 PC use Tournament of the Ruby Phoenix (which under these rules allows PCs levels 10-12) as a means of "retirement"? I remember discussion on this system back when it was proposed stating that modules within the right range would act as another means to get to level 13 besides Eyes of the Twelve/Future Equivalent Scenario Arcs.
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Also, it just occurred to me: Can a level 12 PC use Tournament of the Ruby Phoenix (which under these rules allows PCs levels 10-12) as a means of "retirement"? I remember discussion on this system back when it was proposed stating that modules within the right range would act as another means to get to level 13 besides Eyes of the Twelve/Future Equivalent Scenario Arcs.
Here you go
If a character reaches level 12 by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events.
So No..
Once you reach level 12, you have to play the Tier 12 scenario to move any further.
Once you finish those you can start playing the high level Modules.
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I think that this is awesome. I'm a lot more excited to play or run PFS at Vegas Game Day and possibly make my next Pathfinder home game be a PFS game, whereas previous to this the only times I have played PFS have been at NEONCON.
Many kudos, sirs! Will be reporting for duty at the Grand Lodge ASAP!
Am I correct in reading that as a 1-2 module, "We Be Goblins!" is now legal for replay?
Reta, Poog, Chuffy and Mogmurch will be pleased.
If it is, then this new rule from the changelog thread would apply:
"All Tier 1 scenarios and Tier 1-2 sanctioned modules are available for unlimited replay with a 1st level character for credit. The sanctioned modules can also be played with a 2nd level character once for credit. You may continue to replay the sanctioned modules with 1st level characters after playing through them with a 2nd level character. GMs can receive character credit (a chronicle) each time they run one of the Tier 1 scenarios or Tier 1-2 sanctioned modules. No character can ever have two of the same Chronicle."
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Also, it just occurred to me: Can a level 12 PC use Tournament of the Ruby Phoenix (which under these rules allows PCs levels 10-12) as a means of "retirement"? I remember discussion on this system back when it was proposed stating that modules within the right range would act as another means to get to level 13 besides Eyes of the Twelve/Future Equivalent Scenario Arcs.Here you go
If a character reaches level 12 by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events.So No..
Once you reach level 12, you have to play the Tier 12 scenario to move any further.
Once you finish those you can start playing the high level Modules.
I'm confused here.
It doesnt specificallly say you must play the lvl 12 scenario arc but I believe its implied. Otherwise why would your xp reset to 33 at 12th lvl.
pg21. Once a character reaches 12th level, she may no longer play in tiered scenarios of levels 1–11, but can play special Tier 12 scenarios and events.<---Do these 'EVENTS' include sanctioned mods?
pg22.Upon reaching 13th level, a character may no longer play Tier 12 adventures, but may play any number of Tier 13 and higher events, scenarios, or sanctioned Pathfinder Modules, advancing 1 level every 3 XP as normal.
So lets Say I just play the Mods in this order:
Crypt of the Everflame 1-2
The Godsmouth Heresy 1-2
Feast of Ravenmoor 2-4
Masks of the Living God 2-4
City of Golden Death 4-6
Carrion Hill 4-6
From Shore to Sea 5-7
Realm of the Fellnight Queen 6-8
Cult of the Ebon Destroyers 7-9
The Harrowing 8-10
Curse of the Riven Sky 9-11
Academy of Secrets 12-14
Tomb of the Iron Medusa 13-15
Does it mean I have to stop at Curse of the Riven Sky and play Eyes of Ten to get 13th lvl Then play Academy of Secrets? Or could I just play straight through to Iron Medusa to get lvl 14?
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Thanks a lot for the update. I was only able to quickly browse through but like everything I have seen so far.
I know it sometimes isn't easy (impossible) to please us all.
I especially like how you solved:
The 7 character table issue (Thanks to Mike and the Crew for listening and not outruling it completely).
The playing modules with Pre-gens (a very elegant solution)
The 5th star (a very good compromise and you need participation to keep your fifth star up)
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I just started the first steps scenario with a group. 5 of the players started the very first scenario with zero XP. One of the group had attended a PFS organized play with me once before, meaning he started first steps with 1 XP.
Meaning that after the second part of First Steps he will be level 2.
My question is this, can he get credit for playing part First Steps part 3 with a second level character? I really would hate to make him roll a new PC just for one scenario.
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First Steps is only for first level characters, alas... they're meant to be done as the first three scenarios of a player's life.
But having to make a second PC isn't just for one scenario - he'll need a backup eventually, as this sort of level imbalance will happen from time to time. And sometimes bad things happen to your prime character... look at it as a way to test-drive another class. Who knows, he may decide to switch to the new character!
Thank you for the update. I am especially glad that module-play has been brought more in line with typical play.
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Question on the XP's for the short FreeRPGDay Modules:
Looks like We Be Goblins had its "How to run" page removed from the PFS DL packet and the chronicle was changed from pre-printed +1 XP to blank in that section (though the Master of the Fallen Fortress chronicle was not) I'm assuming that the short modules (including the forthcoming Dawn of the Scarlet Sun) are still just 1 XP, but that should be clarified either on the chronicles or in the guide or both...
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This may have been answered above, but do we have an official "street date" for the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play for Season 4? We are trying to start a PFS chapter in Salem, OR, but some of our players want to know/see if more content from the ARG (rather than just the 7 core races in the beginning) will be available without having to have a chronicle sheet. Right now we are scheduled to start on Aug. 10th. So, if it were to be available sometime during the week before that, it would be great.
Director of Brand Strategy
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August 6But nothing will actually go into affect (or is it effect) until August 16th, correct Mark? So while everyone will learn what the three new races are, they won't actually be able to play them until the 16th, right?
Correct. We're providing a 10-day window for players and GMs to familiarize themselves with all the changes, both large and small, that will appear in the document. This also allows us to answer questions before things go live at Gen Con to cut down on confusion when people actually have to play by the new rules.