Whoa. Can it Vital Strike its eye beams?
I hope so. I used it with the lesser jabberwock(sp?).
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Light to Dark (Su) As an immediate action up to three times per day, a tzitzimitl can convert a positive energy effect that affects it into negative energy. Doing so transforms the entire effect, such that it affects other creatures as well. A tzitzimitl can transform channeled positive energy in this way even if the positive energy would not otherwise harm it.
Since the wording restricts it to affecting positive energy effects that affect it, at least it won't be able to affect channeling effects that heal the living, only attempts to use channeled positive energy to damage it.
A version of this power that allowed it to seize control of channeled positive energy effects in it's area that healed the living, and turned it into negative energy that healed itself instead, could be cruel.
And a version that allowed the negative energy to both heal the undead *and* harm the living, at the same time (like back in Beta), would be mega-cruel!
Director of Game Development
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My question is where is the representation of the fertility aspect of them?
I got permission to post some of the cut material, but it should be noted that not every thing from real world folklore translates well into game material. For one, a creature with the undead type having a relation to childbirth is a bit off. Space on a page is a big factor too, of course. Not everything can be used. From the folkloric tale, these guys would be sort-of outsiders, but since they're from the Material, they're not really outsiders (at least this incarnation, since the folklore posits them as quasi-deities).
Now, I LOVE making monsters from our real-world folklore, but it doesn't always translate to useful stats everytime. There are a ton of weird, contradictory, and just plain strange stories people made up about the powerful, divine, or incomprehensible aspects of life.
While not canon, here's the raw paragraph relating to the real-world folkloric basis:
Light to Dark (Su) As an immediate action up to three times per day, a tzitzimitl can convert a positive energy effect that affects it into negative energy. Doing so transforms the entire effect, such that it affects other creatures as well. A tzitzimitl can transform channeled positive energy in this way even if the positive energy would not otherwise harm it.Since the wording restricts it to affecting positive energy effects that affect it, at least it won't be able to affect channeling effects that heal the living, only attempts to use channeled positive energy to damage it.
A version of this power that allowed it to seize control of channeled positive energy effects in it's area that healed the living, and turned it into negative energy that healed itself instead, could be cruel.
And a version that allowed the negative energy to both heal the undead *and* harm the living, at the same time (like back in Beta), would be mega-cruel!
Look at your quote again. I've bolded the pertinent section. Turning a party's healing channel energy against itself is THE INTENT of the ability. Consider it an exception to the rule that a positive energy effect must effect it. It merely needs to be in the area of effect.
Now that we have had a preview for Beastairy 3 that is a Dragon, Magical Beast, Plant, Aberration, Humaniod(Giant), Outsider, Ooze, and Undead, I hope the next one will be a Fey, Monstrous Humaniod, or Outsider(Elemental).
What I want to know is, what kind of horrific mortal has it's remains and soul transformed into THIS UTTER ABOMINATION after death? Assuming of course these things are born from the deaths of completely corrupt and utterly evil mortals to begin with and not some primal demiurge of the night's lust to destroy all light instead!
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My question is where is the representation of the fertility aspect of them?
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I thought that part was obvious.
When thier PCs are all dead the players will all go home with thier heads bowed and to ease the pain they will need some lovin from thier sinificant others to ease the pain.
Please make this a FAQ.
When their PCs are all dead the players will all go home with thier heads bowed and to ease the pain they will need some lovin from thier sinificant others to ease the pain.
Truly there IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID about the benefits of companionship with a member of the fairer sex. ^_~
Whoa. Can it Vital Strike its eye beams?
Nope. It can't.
I hope so. I used it with the lesser Jabberwock's Sp.
Neither can the Jabberwock either.
and let a channeled energy "affect" the critter... even though the tzitzimitl gains no benefit from the energy if it's being used to heal allies
I know that you encourage house rules and that language doesn't always translate rules well, and I am happy to see it clarified that you have to choose to either heal the living or harm undead.
However, the monster talks about energy "that affects it", to affect means it has to influence, alter or harm. A cleric channeling positive energy to heal its allies does nothing at all to undead, neither by rules, nor by fluff description.
I'm not saying you're wrong, as you must know the intent better than I do, but how is someone supposed to get such an interpretation without reading the messageboard?
(also I can't find where it says that cure spells damage undead, I know it should be the case, but my bestiary (p.310) only says that inflict heals them)
Edit:
okay, just now read that last sentence on the ability which states exactly that exception, my bad. Now I'll get some sleep.
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But, I really would like to see some interesting non-evil undead too. It sounds like they're definitely going to be a no-show though. :( The pale rider certainly sounds cool, I just wish it didn't get pushed as having to be evil.
Not me. Thematically, that seems to completely miss the point of the undead.
Here's hoping for some darkness-themed/ugly/weird/alien-looking celestials at least.
And that misses the point thematically of celestials.
Ah... it's nice to know that I am a CR 19... and at least this time I don't have to wear a snake through my hip bones
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But, I really would like to see some interesting non-evil undead too. It sounds like they're definitely going to be a no-show though. :( The pale rider certainly sounds cool, I just wish it didn't get pushed as having to be evil.Not me. Thematically, that seems to completely miss the point of the undead.
No it doesn't.
The theme of undead is that they are beings that are stuck in an undead state most by unnatural means. The whole pushing of undead having to be evil is something 3.x hoisted on us and unfortunately PF has run with entirely. Forcing all undead to be evil not only wrecks some very cool older settings(Jakandor for example), it also shuts out a lot of great stories that pull from folklore, mythology, and literature.
Heck, look at the Crypt Thing. Neutral throughout the history of the game. Suddenly, bam, evil. :( All I'm asking for is that this new absolute get relaxed eventually so we can have those interesting non-evil undead back. Some of us quite liked them.
Unfortunately this approach isn't even restricted to undead. My favorite fey of all time, the Forlarren, was an awesome creature that was made for some awesome drama about struggling inner natures. Now it's been simplified to an entirely evil creature with a peculiar handicap.
Here's hoping for some darkness-themed/ugly/weird/alien-looking celestials at least.And that misses the point thematically of celestials.
No it doesn't.
The theme of celestials is that they represent Good in all its myriad forms.
Darkness, ugliness, weirdness, or alien appearance or behavior do absolutely nothing that contradicts Good on their own.
Having celestials with those traits would not miss the point of what celestials are about. It would show that good can come in many forms. It would show that good can come in unexpected forms. It would show good's variation in a setting that has multiple planes of existance and countless alien worlds in it. It would show that good is not the sole domain of the beautiful people.
Good is not about light or brightness. Good is not about being beautiful. Good is not about being conventional or familiar.
Good is about compassion, mercy, respect for life, things more important than superficial appearance or obeying norms that have no moral weight.
It would show that Good is more than just a suit and a certain look.
To say that those things would make celestials not celestials is to severely sell them and Good short.
Planescape had the zoveri and busen, and they were plenty awesome. I know Paizo can come up with some great celestials that could more than match them for their weirdness.
Also, OW if the cleric is careless and includes the thing in a Mass Heal. That would sting a bit...
It would be almost impossible not to if you're going to heal your buddy who's trying to fight the thing.
Interesting question is whether selective channeling would help here.
Selective Channeling WILL protect you from its light to dark ability.
Did nobody read the developer post above??? I thought everyone followed those like flies on a butcher's cart.
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Dunno if it's a good idea for Good outsiders to have looks that can make an average PC party roll for initiative before the celestial in question has a chance to properly introduce itself.
And "sorry, that tentacled cthulhuoid thing you just one-rounded was actually a LG angel, sucks to be you for not plastering it with detect good beforehand" is a cheap and low trick. Even for an anal GM like myself.
Dunno if it's a good idea for Good outsiders to have looks that can make an average PC party roll for initiative before the celestial in question has a chance to properly introduce itself.
And "sorry, that tentacled cthulhuoid thing you just one-rounded was actually a LG angel, sucks to be you for not plastering it with detect good beforehand" is a cheap and low trick. Even for an anal GM like myself.
Agreed. ;P
Dunno if it's a good idea for Good outsiders to have looks that can make an average PC party roll for initiative before the celestial in question has a chance to properly introduce itself.
And "sorry, that tentacled cthulhuoid thing you just one-rounded was actually a LG angel, sucks to be you for not plastering it with detect good beforehand" is a cheap and low trick. Even for an anal GM like myself.
Minus the angel part, you just described Flumphs!
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Minus the angel part, you just described Flumphs!Dunno if it's a good idea for Good outsiders to have looks that can make an average PC party roll for initiative before the celestial in question has a chance to properly introduce itself.
And "sorry, that tentacled cthulhuoid thing you just one-rounded was actually a LG angel, sucks to be you for not plastering it with detect good beforehand" is a cheap and low trick. Even for an anal GM like myself.
C'mon, EVERYBODY knows Flumphs are LG! It's as obvious as dragon color-coding for alignment and difficulty. ;-)
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Look at your quote again. I've bolded the pertinent section.
Light to Dark (Su) As an immediate action up to three times per day, a tzitzimitl can convert a positive energy effect that affects it into negative energy. Doing so transforms the entire effect, such that it affects other creatures as well. A tzitzimitl can transform channeled positive energy in this way even if the positive energy would not otherwise harm it.
It is possible to affect an undead with a positive energy channeling without harming it, thanks to Turn Undead.
I assumed that's what the bolded line was referring to, rather than make up a new power that contradicts the sentence before it (and alters the way that positive and negative energy channeling work in post-Beta Pathfinder, either harming one creature type *or* healing another, never both).
If my Kingmaker campaign makes it far enough, this guy is going to be the end game and I already know how to fit him in perfectly.
It is possible to affect an undead with a positive energy channeling without harming it, thanks to Turn Undead.
I assumed that's what the bolded line was referring to, rather than make up a new power that contradicts the sentence before it.
Except that it contradicts what James says here:
A cleric who used the Selective Channel feat to avoid hitting this monster with channeled energy would have nothing to fear. But if the cleric just assumed since it was undead he didn't have to worry and let a channeled energy "affect" the critter... even though the tzitzimitl gains no benefit from the energy if it's being used to heal allies, the energy still "affects" it, and thus the monster would be able to use Light to Dark to make it so that the energy would do negative energy damage to the cleric's allies. Effectively, this changes the cleric's channeled energy option from "use positive energy to heal living creatures" to "use negative energy to harm living creatures." The tzitzimitl would NOT gain healing in this case. It would gain healing if the cleric attempted to harm it with positive energy, though, and the monster then used Light to Dark to change that to negative energy.
I agree that the wording is confusing, but James' clarification isn't.
Look at your quote again. I've bolded the pertinent section.Light to Dark (Su) As an immediate action up to three times per day, a tzitzimitl can convert a positive energy effect that affects it into negative energy. Doing so transforms the entire effect, such that it affects other creatures as well. A tzitzimitl can transform channeled positive energy in this way even if the positive energy would not otherwise harm it.It is possible to affect an undead with a positive energy channeling without harming it, thanks to Turn Undead.
I assumed that's what the bolded line was referring to, rather than make up a new power that contradicts the sentence before it (and alters the way that positive and negative energy channeling work in post-Beta Pathfinder, either harming one creature type *or* healing another, never both).
That may well be why James Jacobs decided to pop in with a bit of clarification.
I WANT MY BESTIARY 3 HERE IMMEDIATELY! :D
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Creative Director
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That may well be why James Jacobs decided to pop in with a bit of clarification.Look at your quote again. I've bolded the pertinent section.Light to Dark (Su) As an immediate action up to three times per day, a tzitzimitl can convert a positive energy effect that affects it into negative energy. Doing so transforms the entire effect, such that it affects other creatures as well. A tzitzimitl can transform channeled positive energy in this way even if the positive energy would not otherwise harm it.It is possible to affect an undead with a positive energy channeling without harming it, thanks to Turn Undead.
I assumed that's what the bolded line was referring to, rather than make up a new power that contradicts the sentence before it (and alters the way that positive and negative energy channeling work in post-Beta Pathfinder, either harming one creature type *or* healing another, never both).
It is. That amount of clarification text may be needed in this case, where we have an entire messageboard's worth of people ravenous for Bestiary 3 content focusing their combined brains on one single creature's writeup, which will cause all sorts of questions for clarifications like this to pop up. That level of information on exactly how something works covering every possible iteration of every possible encounter simply isn't something we have room to print, if we also want to print art and flavor text.
I made that as clear as I could make it in the shortest amount of text possible while developing the monster. And (as at least one poster confirmed) I suspect lots of folks got confused by not reading all of the text about the power before they ran off to post. It happens.
I wonder if there is an Aztec-inspired country/area/region on Golarion, somewhere in Arcadia?
I wonder if there is an Aztec-inspired country/area/region on Golarion, somewhere in Arcadia?There absolutely is. Some of that Aztec-inspired stuff is actually in parts of eastern Garund along the Fever Sea, but the bulk is indeed in Arcadia. Probably NORTHERN Arcadia.
Dare I hope that this means the Arcadians have extensive civilizations all round, rather than inexplicably-enduring-after-five-thousand-years-of-traffic-with-Avistan hunter-gatherer/subsistence-farmer tribes as so many other settings insist on? ^.^
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And (as at least one poster confirmed) I suspect lots of folks got confused by not reading all of the text about the power before they ran off to post. It happens.
From 'reading all the text' I get;
Light to Dark (Su) As an immediate action up to three times per day, a tzitzimitl can convert a positive energy effect that affects it into negative energy. Doing so transforms the entire effect, such that it affects other creatures as well. A tzitzimitl can transform channeled positive energy in this way even if the positive energy would not otherwise harm it.
The options I see are;
A) Cleric channels positive energy to harm the undead. It uses Light to Dark and the positive energy becomes negative energy and harms the living instead, reversing the 'polarity' of the power, but not the Clerics *intent* (to do harm).
B) Cleric channels positive energy to harm the undead. Light to Dark reverses the polarity of the energy *and* the intent, and instead of harming the tzitzmitl, it heals the tzitzimitl.
C) Cleric channels positive energy to harm the undead. The tzitzimitl is not a cleric and doesn't care what the Cleric intended, because it doesn't play by cleric rules, and transforms the positive energy channel to a blast of pure negative energy which *both* heals the undead *and* harms the living.
D) Cleric channels positive energy to harm the undead. The tzitzimitl, using Light to Dark, counts now as being the originator of the effect, and can decide whether the negative energy created is going to heal the undead or harm the living.
I don't feel that I failed to read a sentence in the above-quoted text that stated which of these four options occur, although, obviously, since, as you say, I made a mistake running off to post, I have.
But I'm still not seeing it, so perhaps you could highlight the relevant sentence in the above quote and explain to my simple self how it answers this question.
Apologies for my obtuseness. I'm not trying to be difficult here, I really, honestly do not see how the quoted text answers this.
Cleric channels positive energy to heal his party members. The tzitzimitl is in the area of effect but would not normally be harmed by the positive energy. It still changes the positive energy to negative energy and harms the party members.
I think that's the case called out by the final-sentence qualifier.
EDIT: Never mind, I wasn't understanding your exact issue with the text. Now that I've reread your post, it seems to be with the harm/heal dichotomy which honestly made more sense in Beta, although I understand why they changed it. My impression is that it would reverse the cleric's intent, harm to heal or heal to harm, but you're right that it's not explicit.