Ultimate Combat Preview #1

Tuesday, July 19, 2011

Time slips by so quickly during the summer months that it seems like a new rulebook is just around the corner. As it turns out, Ultimate Combat is due to release in just a few weeks. From now until Gen Con, we will be showing off some of the exciting new options for characters and GMs alike that hide inside this blood-drenched tome.

To kick things off, I can think of no better way than to take a look at the classes chapter of Ultimate Combat. This book features one brand-new class, the gunslinger, as well as two alternate classes, the ninja and the samurai. In addition, all of the classes that focus on melee or ranged combat get a host of new archetypes in this book. Take a look a this list.

Illustration by Mauricio Herrera

Alchemist: This section presents the beastmorph and ragechemist archetypes.
Barbarian: This section includes the armored hulk, scarred rager, sea reaver, titan mauler, true primitive, urban barbarian, and wild rager.
Bard: This section includes the archaeologist, daredevil, and dervish dancer.
Cavalier: This section includes the beast rider, emissary, gendarme, honor guard, luring cavalier, musketeer, standard bearer, and strategist.
Cleric: This section includes the crusader, divine strategist, evangelist, and merciful healer.
Druid: This section includes the ape shaman, bat shaman, and boar shaman, as well as the world walker.
Fighter: This section includes the armor master, brawler, cad, dragoon, gladiator, tactician, thunderstriker, tower shield specialist, unarmed fighter, and unbreakable.
Gunslinger: This section includes the gun tank, musket master, mysterious stranger, and pistolero.
Inquisitor: This section includes the iconoclast, spellbreaker, and witch hunter.
Magus: This section includes the kensai, myrmidarch, skirnir, and soul forger.
Monk: This section includes the flowing monk, maneuver master, martial artist, master of many styles, sensei, sohei, and tetori.
Paladin: This section includes the divine hunter, empyreal knight, holy gun, holy tactician, knight of the sepulcher, and sacred shield.
Ranger: This section includes the battle scout, deep walker, falconer, trophy hunter, warden, and wild stalker.
Rogue: This section includes new rogue talents, plus the bandit, chameleon, charlatan, driver, knife master, pirate, roof runner, sanctified rogue, and survivalist.
Wizard: This section includes the arcane bomber, siege mage, and spellslinger.

Of course, some of these classes get other new rules as well, such as rage powers, rogue talents, and the like. Some of these archetypes can make for some versatile and powerful characters. I myself am playing with one of these archetypes in a campaign being run by our illustrious publisher, Erik Mona. Take a look at the Maneuver Master.

Maneuver Master (Archetype)
The maneuver master specializes in more complicated moves than simple damage-dealing strikes.
Bonus Feat: In addition to normal monk bonus feats, a maneuver master may select any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat. At 6th level and above, he may select any Greater combat maneuver feat (such as Greater Grapple) as a bonus feat. At 10th level and above, he may select any maneuver Strike feat (such as Tripping Strike) as a bonus feat.
Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex): At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces flurry of blows.
Maneuver Defense (Ex): At 3rd level, if a maneuver master has an Improved combat maneuver feat, any creature attempting that maneuver against the maneuver master provokes an attack of opportunity, even if it would not normally do so. This ability replaces still mind.
Reliable Maneuver (Ex): At 4th level, as a swift action, a maneuver master may spend 1 point from his ki pool before attempting a combat maneuver. He can roll his combat maneuver check for that maneuver twice and use the better result. This ability replaces slow fall.
Meditative Maneuver (Ex): At 5th level, as a swift action, a maneuver master can add his Wisdom modifier on any combat maneuver check he makes before the beginning of his next turn. He must choose which combat maneuver check to grant the bonus to before making the combat maneuver check. This ability replaces purity of body.
Sweeping Maneuver (Ex): At 11th level, a maneuver master can make two combat maneuvers as a standard action, as long as neither maneuver requires the maneuver master to move. He may perform two identical maneuvers against two adjacent enemies, or he may perform two different combat maneuvers against the same target. This ability replaces diamond body.
Whirlwind Maneuver (Ex): At 15th level, once per day as a full-round action, a maneuver master can attempt a single combat maneuver against every opponent he threatens, as long as the combat maneuver does not require movement. He makes a single combat maneuver check, and it applies to all targets. This ability replaces quivering palm.

After the first session, I can tell you that this archetype has been a blast to play. We will be looking at some of the fun toys for the monk in more detail next week, but let me close out with one last list of class-filled fun. Here is the revised and expanded list of fighter weapon groups. Weapons marked with one asterisk (*) can be found in the Advanced Player's Guide, while those with two asterisks (**) are from Ultimate Combat. Enjoy and see you all next week.

Axes: bardiche*, battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, heavy pick, hooked axe**, knuckle axe**, light pick, mattock**, orc double axe, pata**, and throwing axe
Blades, Heavy: bastard sword, chakram*, double chicken saber**, double walking stick katana**, elven curve blade, falcata*, falchion, greatsword, great terbutje**, katana**, khopesh*, longsword, nine-ring broadsword**, nodachi**, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword**, shotel**, temple sword*, terbutje**, and two-bladed sword
Blades, Light: bayonet*, butterfly sword**, dagger, gladius**, kama, kerambit**, kukri, pata**, quadrens**, rapier, short sword, sica**, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger*, sword cane*, and wakizashi**
Bows: composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, and shortbow
Close: bayonet*, brass knuckles*, cestus**, dan bong**, emei piercer**, fighting fan**, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush**, light shield, madu**, mere club**, punching dagger, sap, scizore**, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi**, tonfa**, unarmed strike, wooden stake*, and wushu dart**
Crossbows: double crossbow*, hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, light crossbow, light repeating crossbow, and tube arrow shooter**
Double: dire flail, dwarven urgrosh, gnome hooked hammer, orc double axe, quarterstaff, and two-bladed sword
Firearms: all one-handed**, two-handed**, and siege firearms**
Flails: chain spear*, dire flail, double chained kama**, flail, flying blade**, heavy flail, kusarigama**, kyoketsu shoge**, meteor hammer**, morningstar, nine-section whip**, nunchaku, sansetsukon**, scorpion whip**, spiked chain, urumi**, and whip
Hammers: aklys**, battle aspergillum*, club, greatclub, heavy mace, light hammer, light mace, mere club**, taiaha**, tetsubo**, wahaika**, and warhammer
Monk: bo staff**, brass knuckles**, butterfly sword**, cestus*, dan bong**, double chained kama**, double chicken saber**, emei piercer**, fighting fan**, jutte**, kama, kusarigama**, kyoketsu shoge**, lungshuan tamo**, monk's spade**, nine-ring broadsword**, nine-section whip**, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart**, sai, sansetsukon**, seven-branched sword**, shang gou**, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork**, tonfa**, tri-point double-edged sword**, unarmed strike, urumi**, wushu dart**
Natural: unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing
Polearms: bardiche*, bec de corbin*, bill*, glaive, glaive-guisarme*, guisarme, halberd, hooked lance**, lucerne hammer*, mancatcher*, monk's spade**, naginata**, nodachi**, ranseur, rohomphaia**,tepoztopili**, and tiger fork**
Spears: amentum**, boar spear*, javelin, harpoon**, lance, longspear, pilum*, shortspear, sibat**, spear, tiger fork**, and trident
Thrown: aklys**, amentum**, atlatl**, blowgun, bolas, boomerang*, chakram*, club, dagger, dart, halfling sling staff, harpoon**, javelin, lasso*, kestros**, light hammer, net, poisoned sand tube**, rope dart**, shortspear, shuriken, sling, spear, starknife, throwing axe, throwing shield**, trident, and wushu dart**
Siege Engines: all siege engines**


Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Tags: Design Tuesdays Mauricio Herrera Paladins Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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Caedwyr wrote:
A piece of trivia for folks who are interested. The original theatre release of Grave of the Fireflies was a double bill. The film that preceded it: My Neighbour Totoro.

That definately sounds like a good recipe for mood whiplash!

Sovereign Court

Golden-Esque wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

I am exhausted by this mass of options.

I'm still processing the APG.

When did a gazillion options become a virtue?

Archaeologist should be fun: bonuses to academic backbiting and advanced cataloguing skills... bonus to concentration checks when using a trowel.

Eh, I don't know what "Rogue Archaeologist" you're thinking of, but when I saw that entry, one particularly catchy song erupted in my mind ...

DUN DUN dun DA DUN DUN DA!
DUN DUN dun DA DUN DUN DA DA DA!

I get that this will be Indiana Jones / Lara Croft.

It is a bit odd to me, I worked with archaeologists for several years. It's like having a class called postman or teacher: those people don't do what fantasy heroes do.


GeraintElberion wrote:


I get that this will be Indiana Jones / Lara Croft.

It is a bit odd to me, I worked with archaeologists for several years. It's like having a class called postman or teacher: those people don't do what fantasy heroes do.

Agreed. More like a treasure hunter or tomb robber than an archeologist.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
R_Chance wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:


I get that this will be Indiana Jones / Lara Croft.

It is a bit odd to me, I worked with archaeologists for several years. It's like having a class called postman or teacher: those people don't do what fantasy heroes do.

Agreed. More like a treasure hunter or tomb robber than an archeologist.

"Yay! I rolled a critical hit on that skill check to sweep the dirt off of a skeleton. Uh-oh... the GM says the skeleton is stirring..."


GeraintElberion wrote:
Golden-Esque wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

I am exhausted by this mass of options.

I'm still processing the APG.

When did a gazillion options become a virtue?

Archaeologist should be fun: bonuses to academic backbiting and advanced cataloguing skills... bonus to concentration checks when using a trowel.

Eh, I don't know what "Rogue Archaeologist" you're thinking of, but when I saw that entry, one particularly catchy song erupted in my mind ...

DUN DUN dun DA DUN DUN DA!
DUN DUN dun DA DUN DUN DA DA DA!

I get that this will be Indiana Jones / Lara Croft.

It is a bit odd to me, I worked with archaeologists for several years. It's like having a class called postman or teacher: those people don't do what fantasy heroes do.

To be fair, the Bard already has the Archivist, which is basically a Professor. Even their bardic performance replacements are as a professor!

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Shisumo wrote:
I think she's a divine hunter, personally.

I'm pretty sure of that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
vidmaster wrote:
is there gonna be no samurai or ninja archtypes?
Archtypes don't get their own archtypes.

Which is a bloody shame, because they are substantially different in some cases. Well, I hope they have added some form of unarmed strike to the Ninja.

Contributor

Zark wrote:
I want FEATS.

The feats table alone takes up nine pages in this book. Trust me, there are plenty of feats in this book. :D


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Liz Courts wrote:
Zark wrote:
I want FEATS.
The feats table alone takes up nine pages in this book. Trust me, there are plenty of feats in this book. :D

You serious? That would mean there are more feats in this book than there are in all previous Paizo books COMBINED!

Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
Zark wrote:
I want FEATS.
The feats table alone takes up nine pages in this book. Trust me, there are plenty of feats in this book. :D
You serious?

<The Monarch>DEADLY!</The Monarch>

Dark Archive

Ravingdork wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
Zark wrote:
I want FEATS.
The feats table alone takes up nine pages in this book. Trust me, there are plenty of feats in this book. :D
You serious? That would mean there are more feats in this book than there are in all previous Paizo books COMBINED!

The number is impressive, but the Core Rulebook, APG and UM alone have about 12 pages of feat tables.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jadeite wrote:

The number is impressive, but the Core Rulebook, APG and UM alone have about 12 pages of feat tables.

How's that? The tables themselves only cover about 2-3 pages per book.

EDIT: Ah. I see, I wasn't counting front AND back like you all seem to be. :P

That's still a crap ton of feats! With that many new options, odds are extremely high that some of it will be imbalanced. I wonder if they included an anti-antagonize feat.


This preview leaves me salivating in anticipation. I have to say, the monk archetypes look as though they will actually exceed everyone's expectations, making the monk a viable class to pick to emulate any badass kung fu master. Everything else sounds inestimably awesome.

On a more blase note, is it too late to cut out the druid archetypes in favor of archetypes for another class? Or more archetypes for already listed classes?

Dark Archive

Archomedes wrote:
On a more blasé note, is it too late to cut out the druid archetypes in favor of archetypes for another class? Or more archetypes for already listed classes?

The book releases in a few weeks and is already back from the printer, so yes, it's a little late for that.


AWESOME!!!

I hope some of those cavalier archetypes have options for non-mount companions, or alternatives to having a companion at all.


I love the names of the archetypes of the classes I care for, and the maneuver master sounds awesome. However as mentioned before, I hope that it's not the final description of his abilites, as some things are left unclear as Majuba stated before.

However is that elf on some serious steroids or has he got the all new breastplate of muscularity?

Oh and I hope your servers can take the heat when the katana flaming-war starts.

But as always, I'll buy this book because it will be awesome.

Silver Crusade

vagrant-poet wrote:
I hope some of those cavalier archetypes have options for non-mount companions, or alternatives to having a companion at all.

Order of the Cockatrice cavaliers could be more in-character than ever! ;)

Max Brooks would no doubt be delighted to see the monk's spade represented.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It seems that I have developed advanced powers of precognition:

Gorbacz wrote:


Coming up next: "Cleric/Wizard archetypes are depressing, another sign of how weak both classes are"...

followed by:

Zark wrote:

I doubt it will make the cleric more fun, but I can always dream.

UNCANNY! ;-)

Dark Archive

I'm wondering if any of those new weapons will be better than the falcata.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thunder. Thunder! THUNDERSTRIKER, HOOO!!!!!!!


R_Chance wrote:
Distant Scholar wrote:


Ravingdork wrote:
Tonfa? Club!

I was thinking a tonfa would be a light wooden shield, myself.

No. A Tonfa is similar in construction (and use) to a PR-24 police baton (the PR-24 is derived from the Tonfa). In short, it's a stick with a side projecting handle allowing some pretty nifty moves.

I know what a tonfa is. I still think the light wooden shield's stats fit it pretty well, even if they don't look the same at all.


Beast Rider? Maybe my Cavalier will get that Griffon Mount after all...

Where's the Houndmaster?

WE WANT THE HOUNDMASTER!!!

Cavalier/Samarai's Kick a$$!!!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
STR Ranger wrote:
Beast Rider? Maybe my Cavalier will get that Griffon Mount after all...

I'm rather hoping for a giant gecko.

Grand Lodge

Cheapy wrote:

Awesome!

A fighter specializing in Siege Engines? Sweet.

A bit sad about the lack of gunmage :(

My rogue succeeds on a sneak attack with a ballista - for 283 points of damage!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
-
Feral wrote:

-51

I'm not a fan of the anime art style.

Can't say it seems very 'anime' to me.

He's probably calling it anime because it doesn't look like any relation to either the Pathfinder Iconic or that pseudo-Galahad pencil and line drawing that signified the look of the Paladin in the original Player's Handbook. The armor has a look that's not pseudo-European so I imagine some folks have a bit of cultural shock.


I like the art sample. Badass! I hope there are some good monk pics in - because other than the iconic in Core, I didn't really feel overwhelmed by other monk art across the other products.


I saw the armor and I thought it would be a perfect fit if worn by a character from Record of Lodoss War, so calling it anime-inspired really isn't much of a stretch in my eyes. However, I don't think that is a bad thing (But then, I <like> anime). If all the art looks the same, it really isn't art anymore.


John Maki wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

Awesome!

A fighter specializing in Siege Engines? Sweet.

A bit sad about the lack of gunmage :(

My rogue succeeds on a sneak attack with a ballista - for 283 points of damage!

Your gonna sneak attack with a seige weapon...? There has to be a rule aginst this!.....no?..... fine roll......


Bards get Dervish Dancer!? :) Gah even more to drive me crazy waiting for my copy! If you can please preview that Archetype!!! I cant wait until next month to know details of dervishes!


GeraintElberion wrote:
Golden-Esque wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

I am exhausted by this mass of options.

I'm still processing the APG.

When did a gazillion options become a virtue?

Archaeologist should be fun: bonuses to academic backbiting and advanced cataloguing skills... bonus to concentration checks when using a trowel.

Eh, I don't know what "Rogue Archaeologist" you're thinking of, but when I saw that entry, one particularly catchy song erupted in my mind ...

DUN DUN dun DA DUN DUN DA!
DUN DUN dun DA DUN DUN DA DA DA!

I get that this will be Indiana Jones / Lara Croft.

It is a bit odd to me, I worked with archaeologists for several years. It's like having a class called postman or teacher: those people don't do what fantasy heroes do.

Well, they make that distinction as a joke in the Indiana Jones movies. When teaching his class in Last Crusade he tells his students what archaeology is really about with his "Archaeology is about fact, not truth. If it's truth you're looking for... and X never, ever marks the spot." speech then it does mark the spot later in the movie.


Bloodbane wrote:
John Maki wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

Awesome!

A fighter specializing in Siege Engines? Sweet.

A bit sad about the lack of gunmage :(

My rogue succeeds on a sneak attack with a ballista - for 283 points of damage!

Your gonna sneak attack with a seige weapon...? There has to be a rule aginst this!.....no?..... fine roll......

If he can use Improved Feint to distract an enemy within 30 feet and a direct line to the ballista... more power too him.

"Hey? Is that some sort of Demon Duck?"

Or would that be Sniping from cover within 30 feet with a concealed ballista?

"Eh gads! Bob was just impaled with a tree trunk! Where did it come from?"


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Dorje Sylas wrote:


Or would that be Sniping from cover within 30 feet with a concealed ballista?

"Eh gads! Bob was just impaled with a tree trunk! Where did it come from?"

Sniper Goggles.

No need to be within 30 feet.

You can be 300 feet away, with the goggles, and put a tree-trunk through the guy's kidney.

Sovereign Court

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:

This is anime art.

This is not.

Sigh... kids these days!

I suppose it has finally come to pass that anime/manga has so permeated our culture that the younger folk can't distinguish it from anything else today, because it has become a default aesthetic.

From top to bottom of the piece on the blog that is being informed by Japanese cartoon aesthetics. Hair, eyes, face, hands, legs, feet, the entire stance... that over the top bow. An eleven archer illustrated in 1980 would look radically different.

It's not that the old art is actually better, but rather anime aesthetic tropes are so pervasive and cliched that it's created a uniformity in styles that is a bit stifling. Back in the day you got a lot more variation from artist to artist.

For those interested in glimpsing backwards to a pre-anime pop-culture world you could flip through the covers of Dragon Magazine starting from issue 1. You'll see plenty of the older Boris Vallejo T&A aesthetic cliche there, but you'll also see all sorts of other approaches that can surprise you.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I just have to say, I'm really looking forward to this book, and the preview has definitely got me interested. I'm still hoping that there's going to be some new Animal domains for the new Animal Shamans. In that vein, I have to say... "Na na na na na na na na naaaah... Bat Shaman!!!!"


Skirnir = Norse magus... Sweet!

Hooked Axe = Bearded Axe??? Hopefully...


hogarth wrote:
Kaiyanwang wrote:
Crapload of weapons.. Monk with Greater Maneuvers and Maneuver-related class features...

I'll have to dig up the impassioned defense of "monks aren't supposed to get Greater maneuver feats as bonus feats and that's a good thing".

;-)

You mean this was my position? reread my post in a recent monk thread.

@Anime Art: if a piece of art is different from otehrs, is not necessarily "anime".

As if "anime" is a simple definition. Berserk and Lodoss are anime (too), but are very D&D-esque in a lot of aspects.


Kaiyanwang wrote:
hogarth wrote:

I'll have to dig up the impassioned defense of "monks aren't supposed to get Greater maneuver feats as bonus feats and that's a good thing".

;-)

You mean this was my position? reread my post in a recent monk thread.

No, sorry for the confusion. It was one of the Paizo folks who said it, probably James Jacobs.

Okay, maybe it wasn't an impassioned defense, but James Jacobs pointed out that it was intentional, anyways. Still, it was kind of funny that Paizo itself produced two examples of monks who violated the rule of "Greater Trip/Greater Disarm needs 13 Int" (in one of the versions of Sajan and also in the NPC gallery in the Gamemaster's Guide).


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Kaiyanwang wrote:

@Anime Art: if a piece of art is different from otehrs, is not necessarily "anime".

As if "anime" is a simple definition. Berserk and Lodoss are anime (too), but are very D&D-esque in a lot of aspects.

I can definitely prove it is not anime. Look at his eyes. Look at his mouth. They are the same size. Since he is supposed to be a heroic paladin, not a shifty eyed villain, the art is clearly not anime. ;)

The bow definitely looks Exalted inspired though. *ducks and runs*

Scarab Sages

WANT THIS BOOK!!!!!!!!!!


hogarth wrote:

I'll have to dig up the impassioned defense of "monks aren't supposed to get Greater maneuver feats as bonus feats and that's a good thing".

I don't want to answer in place of James Jacobs, but is my personal opinion that the game changes and maybe they changed their mind about it.

If is the case is a good thing because they just listened people and addressed their concerns.


Kaiyanwang wrote:
hogarth wrote:

I'll have to dig up the impassioned defense of "monks aren't supposed to get Greater maneuver feats as bonus feats and that's a good thing".

I don't want to answer in place of James Jacobs, but is my personal opinion that the game changes and maybe they changed their mind about it.

If is the case is a good thing because they just listened people and addressed their concerns.

And my personal opinion is that when they make an archetype that's meant to be good at something, then it should be good at that thing.

They aren't changing the base class. That's still restricted to Improved Only As Bonus Feats. But this class that's meant to be great at it is gonna be great at it.

Also. I wonder if there'll be a feat to let any weapon be a monk weapon. Maneuver Master with trip and a reach/trip weapon would be awesome :)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Having to take an archetype to get them is a rather different thing that just having them added to the bonus feat list. There is an opportunity cost involved, after all.

EDIT: Hey. It just occured to me. A 3rd level maneuver master with Improved Grapple is going to really annoy monsters with Grab, isn't it?


Shisumo wrote:
Having to take an archetype to get them is a rather different thing that just having them added to the bonus feat list. There is an opportunity cost involved, after all.

I don`t think I`m getting you... Don`t both Archetype Class Ability swaps AND Feats have opportunity costs? Are you using some other definition of opportunity cost than I am?


Mikaze wrote:
Quandary wrote:
I hope the Flowing Monk is even half related to the Superstar contest entrant that had ´mind control/reading´ and social skills.
Huh. When I saw it I Immediately thought "DEX-focused monk geared towards mobile combat and/or turning their opponents momentum against them". Need to look up that Superstar entry...

Yeah... Here is that Superstar Monk Archetype if you didn`t find it.

...I think such a DEX-focused style would go great WITH that Archetype (as is, it`s able to counter OPPONENT`S DEX, which is VERY similar), but I think that is the thing that belongs more in a one of these new martial arts styles AVAILABLE TO ALL CHARACTERS (and Archetypes) than just one Monk Archetype.

Actually, those martial arts styles available to everybody would be GREAT for the next Preview, hint, hint... ;-)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shisumo wrote:

Having to take an archetype to get them is a rather different thing that just having them added to the bonus feat list. There is an opportunity cost involved, after all.

EDIT: Hey. It just occured to me. A 3rd level maneuver master with Improved Grapple is going to really annoy monsters with Grab, isn't it?

You know that you're not limited to just taking bonus feats.


The bow and the arrow in the image are bothering me. It just doesn't look right for some fundamental reason.


Shisumo wrote:
EDIT: Hey. It just occured to me. A 3rd level maneuver master with Improved Grapple is going to really annoy monsters with Grab, isn't it?

Du Du Do Du, can't grab this.

And well spotted.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mok wrote:


It's not that the old art is actually better, but rather anime aesthetic tropes are so pervasive and cliched that it's created a uniformity in styles that is a bit stifling. Back in the day you got a lot more variation from artist to artist.

Not really most of the art of the eighties, and especially the 70's in RPG books was relatively primitive and a lot of stuff published in TSR books, bland. I cringed even then at the thought of playing elves as they appeared in the Players Handbook. (Half-Elves were almost as bad)

Aesthetics evolve by generation, now a dominant type influenced by manga but much of the manga has been tempered by western tastes as well. It's more of a manga-Anglo fusion style.


Dorje Sylas wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
EDIT: Hey. It just occured to me. A 3rd level maneuver master with Improved Grapple is going to really annoy monsters with Grab, isn't it?

Du Du Do Du, can't grab this.

And well spotted.

Yep.

Take Improved Grapple and Improved Trip. Wolves and tentacle beasts will be angry at you now. Hold a trip weapon. Get Greater Trip. Now when you get hit by those abilities, they'll try to do it on you. You hit them with your trip attempt AoO to trip them. Then you get an AoO to whack them when you trip them. Congrats! You just ended their attack routine and punished them.

That's very, very nice.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Quandary wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Having to take an archetype to get them is a rather different thing that just having them added to the bonus feat list. There is an opportunity cost involved, after all.
I don`t think I`m getting you... Don`t both Archetype Class Ability swaps AND Feats have opportunity costs? Are you using some other definition of opportunity cost than I am?

Technically that's true, but if we just added the Greater feats to the standard monk bonus feat list, the opportunity cost is just simply not being able to take any of the other available bonus feats at that level. Given that the point of the discussion is that people want to do that, I consider the cost to be negligible.

On the other hand, making it an archetype means the cost is much higher, even if the benefits can be considered to be commensurately higher as well. You can't simply say "all I have to give up to get Greater Trip is the chance to take Improved Critical this level" (knowing you can take it next level anyway); you have to give up flurry of blows, still mind, slow fall, purity of body, diamond body and quivering palm. Yes you get other things for those as well, but the point is that there's likely to be something in that package you're going to miss. So the cost is higher.

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