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I have nothing against the common Chelish, I am one myself, but those that follow House Thrune are a Blight on the the Inner Sea! The failing of the Cheliax faction in the Society is only the beginning, soon the Chelish people will rise against House Thrune and bring freedom to Cheliax once again!
The Chelish people are better to trade with. Say what you will about their society, but at least they are always good for keeping up their end of the bargain. The same cannot be said for fething Andorans.
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This may be the truth, but do not be afraid. Our work will not be stopped. As long as even one agent is doin her work, the CHeliax will prosper. What is the greatest attribute of our nation? That we shall not never give up. Tis' only means we have to work harder, and one day, our nation-the nation that must be- will rise to the glory and Thrune shall be victorious!
All hail Asmodeus and House Thrune!
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You sins of Slave trade shall in the end undo you.I'm sorry, I can't hear you because of all coin in my purse. Maybe my ears would be more apt to hear your incessant squawking if a few more gold somehow ended up within in my hands.
Exactly if perhaps these loose cannons fighting for freedom where to say pay for the freedom of slaves with gold. I might even sell their freedom at my cost plus a *coughs* small fee for processing the paperwork. and then they would not be shedding innocent merchant blood all over the place.
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Interesting, I expected Taldor was the runt of the faction litter, not Cheliax. I had no idea Cheliax was the smallest and least popular faction among PFS players.
I think evil characters should be allowed. As long as the PvP rule is in place, I think evil characters are fine.
I suppose the reason this rule is put in so that paladins don't have to party with them and be unable to do something about evil characters doing evil in the middle of a scenario.
Oh well.
Venture-Lieutenant, California—Los Angeles (South Bay)
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Interesting, I expected Taldor was the runt of the faction litter, not Cheliax. I had no idea Cheliax was the smallest and least popular faction among PFS players.I think evil characters should be allowed. As long as the PvP rule is in place, I think evil characters are fine.
I suppose the reason this rule is put in so that paladins don't have to party with them and be unable to do something about evil characters doing evil in the middle of a scenario.
Oh well.
It may also be that some evil acts in game may be truly offensive to some players, based on some of their experiences or those of people close to them. Trust me when I say that in some 30 years of gaming, I have seen all types at the gaming table.
I was surprised to see that Cheliax lagged so far behind. I think that part of it is that although evil may have its appeal in shock value, it is very hard to play an evil character in a party where cooperation is key. (I think that some good role players can manage it, but Pathfinder Society Organized Play can often result in very random groups gathering together.)
I think that many people prefer their characters to be heroes, even if there are many different sorts of heroes. Somehow, it seems that trying to establish a tyrannical empire in service to Hell does not fit many people's definitions of heroism. That said, I have had fun interacting with people who have characters in the Cheliax faction. As a GM, I have found the Paracountess' missives to be amusing.
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I think evil characters should be allowed. As long as the PvP rule is in place, I think evil characters are fine.
I suppose the reason this rule is put in so that paladins don't have to party with them and be unable to do something about evil characters doing evil in the middle of a scenario.
Oh well.
Nah, you'd have upset tables, PVP, and DMs kicking players all the time from their tables. And DMs quiting too. I've played enough video games, even "cooperative" video games, to know that's a really bad idea. It would be like high school again. You're always going to find griefers.
You'd always have to adventure with 1-2 buddies, just in case there are griefers in the party. Or know everyone at the table. No thanks.
Only a Cheliaxian would follow such a flawed ideology. :)
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Interesting, I expected Taldor was the runt of the faction litter, not Cheliax. I had no idea Cheliax was the smallest and least popular faction among PFS players.I think evil characters should be allowed. As long as the PvP rule is in place, I think evil characters are fine.
I suppose the reason this rule is put in so that paladins don't have to party with them and be unable to do something about evil characters doing evil in the middle of a scenario.
Oh well.
LN is better! it allows you to have moments of sinister and diabolical intent without limiting you to always being such. i find it is hard for most role players to remain evil for more than brief spurts, it is just not in most peoples makeup. I love playing sinister and selfish characters but in games focused on teamwork (as already pointed out)it is counter productive. remain neutral to good and evil and you can always play both sides of the fence when it adds flavor to the game session and avoid unnecessary complications to the flow of a session.
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i find it is hard for most role players to remain evil for more than brief spurts, it is just not in most peoples makeup.
After 8 years of Armageddon I am quite adept at it. I currently have a Neutral Evil character that is working damn hard at convincing the party Paladin that I have redeemable qualities. I am commiting minor acts which could be considered good (they're really neutral), trying to find common ground with him and bond with him.
IRL I'd consider myself Lawful Good (as in, I try to follow the law and do the right thing).
I love playing sinister and selfish characters but in games focused on teamwork (as already pointed out)it is counter productive.
The other players are simply tools at my disposal. To be discarded when they no longer prove useful (i.e. at the end of the campaign).
I'm shocked to see how popular Andoran is, given how much we deride it (we basically consider Andoran to be America, with Andoran faction members the god awful people from Team America). I'd be curious to see a break down by real life country for the factions. I wouldn't be surprised if Cheliax is second, if not equal, to Andoran in Australia.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Cheliax is second, if not equal, to Andoran in Australia.
Not according to the sessions I've reported: Australia (Melbourne and Brisbane)
Total for Andoran 183
Total for Osirion 141
Total for Taldor 104
Total for Qadira 95
Total for Cheliax 82
Note: Australia hosted two four-day Pathfinder conventions last weekend, Conquest 2011 Melbourne, and Eyecon 2011 Sydney (not included in the above totals) but from what I observed at Conquest last weekend, it was much the same representation. I GMed one table with three Andorans and three Osirions. Chelish are rare indeed.
Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)
Pathfinder Society 4-Star GM
Venture Captain, Australia
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i find it is hard for most role players to remain evil for more than brief spurts, it is just not in most peoples makeup.After 8 years of Armageddon I am quite adept at it. I currently have a Neutral Evil character that is working damn hard at convincing the party Paladin that I have redeemable qualities. I am commiting minor acts which could be considered good (they're really neutral), trying to find common ground with him and bond with him.
IRL I'd consider myself Lawful Good (as in, I try to follow the law and do the right thing).
I love playing sinister and selfish characters but in games focused on teamwork (as already pointed out)it is counter productive.The other players are simply tools at my disposal. To be discarded when they no longer prove useful (i.e. at the end of the campaign).
I'm shocked to see how popular Andoran is, given how much we deride it (we basically consider Andoran to be America, with Andoran faction members the god awful people from Team America). I'd be curious to see a break down by real life country for the factions. I wouldn't be surprised if Cheliax is second, if not equal, to Andoran in Australia.
That's how I play it too. Even if I was CE, I wasn't just mindlessly slaughter people for no reason. An evil character is easy to play IMO when there are no paladins around. The problem with paladins is that players take it personally and think you, the player, is trying to screw them or make them fall, not your character, and with Detect Evil, I do think it's a bit harder to justify both being in the same party.
I find a party of evil characters more difficult because somebody has to be a child and goes "haha I kill everything because I'm EVIL!" and screwing things up. One of my favorite campaigns was when my group were all playing a drow campaign where we were elite forces (basically special teams called in to capture monsters for sport in the cities or eliminate threats to city preemptively). All the characters HATED each other, PC and NPC. But out in the Underdark, we had only each other, so we never follow up on opportunities to kill each other because everybody was needed for one reason or another. As soon as we got back to the safety of the city, we disband and go off doing our own thing. It felt like high school. Everybody hated each other, but tolerated it because there were no choice.
But I wouldn't run evil parties and characters with random people. Only with players I trust that can RP well. Ironic because I was for allowing evil characters in the first place.
Interesting, I expected Taldor was the runt of the faction litter, not Cheliax. I had no idea Cheliax was the smallest and least popular faction among PFS players.I think evil characters should be allowed. As long as the PvP rule is in place, I think evil characters are fine.
I suppose the reason this rule is put in so that paladins don't have to party with them and be unable to do something about evil characters doing evil in the middle of a scenario.
Oh well.
I do think this may be the thrust of the issue, and I find it to be a fascinating one, truth be told. Maybe the Darklight Sisterhood needs to make a comeback as a faction for evil characters. I have had resounding successes with my players as members of the organization in my All-Girl-Game(TM), they truly surprise and impress me almost every game with the things evil characters are capable of.
Director of Brand Strategy
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The Darklight Sisterhood are not something we have any plans on ever mentioning in any future product. As much fun as they might be, they don't totally jive with the version of Golarion that evolved from the one that existed at the time the Sisterhood were created. We have other evil organizations opposed to the Pathfinders to work with, and ones that don't exclude 50% of all PCs (assuming equal representation of both genders), and don't give themselves away by all taking the same last name. ;-)
In any case, we don't really want PCs in the organized play campaign belonging to an organization whose sole mission is to destroy the Pathfinder Society. It'd make cooperation at the table nearly impossible. At least something like Cheliax can coexist with the Society without every member of the faction feeling like they need to shiv their companions and burn down their houses.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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... Will newly added prestige awards allowing Cheliax faction PCs of all classes to advance in the ranks of the Hellknights be enough to keep the already low number of faithful from jumping ship?I will be looking forward to this with great anticipation!
I wondered when someone was going to comment on that. All this jingoism about Cheliax and Andoran and all that folderol and no one's paying attention to my subtle hints at larger reveals down the road!
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I wondered when someone was going to comment on that. All this jingoism about Cheliax and Andoran and all that folderol and no one's paying attention to my subtle hints at larger reveals down the road!... Will newly added prestige awards allowing Cheliax faction PCs of all classes to advance in the ranks of the Hellknights be enough to keep the already low number of faithful from jumping ship?I will be looking forward to this with great anticipation!
This is the internet.
No one ever takes a tiny portion of the text and turns it into rampant speculation, conspiracy theories or arguments.Right?
;)
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I wondered when someone was going to comment on that. All this jingoism about Cheliax and Andoran and all that folderol and no one's paying attention to my subtle hints at larger reveals down the road!... Will newly added prestige awards allowing Cheliax faction PCs of all classes to advance in the ranks of the Hellknights be enough to keep the already low number of faithful from jumping ship?I will be looking forward to this with great anticipation!
She is a cold unfeeling b*@@@ devoted to the Prince of Truth and has long sought a way to enter the Hell Knights, without compromising her chosen partial path [the feat-hungry build I have planned for her :)].
She would jump at such a Prestige Award in the blink of an eye!
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Developer
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EDIT: but what about all these chaotic Barbarians and witches I've seen running around in the Cheliax faction. Are the Hellknights really going to let them in?Unacceptable. They must be purged!
So long as they sow their chaos elsewhere, outside our glorious lands, let them go about their misguided ways. So long as they serve us, who cares if they act the part of disorderly fools?
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So long as they sow their chaos elsewhere, outside our glorious lands, let them go about their misguided ways. So long as they serve us, who cares if they act the part of disorderly fools?
Exactly right. The "using" of chaotic, society-disrupting, creatures in other lands (namely Andoran) will foster dissent among the populace and commoners will clammer for law and order.
When the Hellknights or other Chelaxian groups arrive and show them the organizational benefits of the Cheliax model, they will fall over themselves to invite said groups in to depose their impotent local leaders.
And Cheliax will once again rule the inner sea.
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When asked what we are going to do to re absorb rebellious territories that left the fold, such as Andoran, as a Legate of Asmodeus, and a Citizen of the Glorius empire of Cheliax, I useally reply, "we don't have to do anything.....we simply have to wait. Andoran's experiment in "liberty " will eventually implode and collapse into the chaos that is Galt. The citizens will yearn for the order our empire can provide, and then we can march in and save the Andoran province from the depredations of Mob rule."