Golarion Day: Subdomains for Everyone!

I am just constructing a spreadsheet of Gods and Domains, and am slowly, but surely, listing the subdomains. I have just started on Aspu and noticed that although he has Construct and Toil, he does not get the parent domain of Artifice, though he does get Creation. Is this right?

Also on Aspu, where is the Dragon sub-domain found, it does not appear in the APG.

Also on Aspu, where is the Dragon sub-domain found, it does not appear in the APG.

Found it in the Blog the week before....it has been too long

I am just constructing a spreadsheet of Gods and Domains, and am slowly, but surely, listing the subdomains. I have just started on Aspu and noticed that although he has Construct and Toil, he does not get the parent domain of Artifice, though he does get Creation. Is this right?

Also on Aspu, where is the Dragon sub-domain found, it does not appear in the APG.

He gets Artifice—the Creation domain is a typo.

Thanks James. I will correct that and continue on my merry way. Sorry to be a pain :)

I could only find one (Zarongel) of the four goblin deities with subdomains listed in this discussion. So my players can create their own goblin cleric for "We Be Goblins!", I would very much like to know the subdomains for Hadregash, Venkelvore, and Zogmugot, please.

I could only find one (Zarongel) of the four goblin deities with subdomains listed in this discussion. So my players can create their own goblin cleric for "We Be Goblins!", I would very much like to know the subdomains for Hadregash, Venkelvore, and Zogmugot, please.

You'll get them in the upcoming "Goblins of Golarion" book. In that there are four new subdomains to choose from for worshipers of the goblin gods.

You'll get them in the upcoming "Goblins of Golarion" book. In that there are four new subdomains to choose from for worshipers of the goblin gods.

Ooh, interesting!

A 'wolf' subdomain for Zarongel's Animal Domain, or a 'pyromania' subdomain for his Fire Domain seem like fun options. :)

You'll get them in the upcoming "Goblins of Golarion" book. In that there are four new subdomains to choose from for worshipers of the goblin gods.

Ooh, interesting!

A 'wolf' subdomain for Zarongel's Animal Domain, or a 'pyromania' subdomain for his Fire Domain seem like fun options. :)

Obviously the subdomain to Zarongel's Animal domain will be Dog Killing ;)

So, she was mentioned on a long list that scared you, but I specifically want her info, so what about Jezelda, Mistress of the Hungry Moon and Lord of Werewolves (shouldn't that be Lady? Or is it proper to call her Lord if she's not a male Lord's wife?)

So, she was mentioned on a long list that scared you, but I specifically want her info, so what about Jezelda, Mistress of the Hungry Moon and Lord of Werewolves.

That's a tricky one.

Animal has Feathers and Fur, and Fur obviously is the one that's suitable.

Trickery has Deception and Thievery, and neither is perfect, but Deception makes the most sense.

Chaos and Evil both provide Demon. Neither Protean nor Daemon are really suitable (and certainly not Azata).

So, for a patron who should have five Subdomains, only three of those available really fit.

Night, Blood or Murder, from other Domains, might make suitable fill-in options, using James' precedent of allowing options that normally wouldn't be available, but 'make sense' for some of the choices in the blog post, like Ice for Kotschtchie (sp?) and Blood for Zura.

So, she was mentioned on a long list that scared you, but I specifically want her info, so what about Jezelda, Mistress of the Hungry Moon and Lord of Werewolves (shouldn't that be Lady? Or is it proper to call her Lord if she's not a male Lord's wife?)

Jezelda's Subdomains: Fur, Demon, Deception, Night*

*Jezelda can grant access to this domain since it fits so well with her themes.

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:

So, she was mentioned on a long list that scared you, but I specifically want her info, so what about Jezelda, Mistress of the Hungry Moon and Lord of Werewolves (shouldn't that be Lady? Or is it proper to call her Lord if she's not a male Lord's wife?)

Jezelda's Subdomains: Fur, Demon, Deception, Night*

*Jezelda can grant access to this domain since it fits so well with her themes.

Cool, thanks :)

James, what subdomains would the four Whore Queens of Hell have?

EDIT: Also, since Humans of Golarion gave us domains for Aroden, could you update the "None" entry currently listed for his subdomains?

James, what subdomains would the four Whore Queens of Hell have?

EDIT: Also, since Humans of Golarion gave us domains for Aroden, could you update the "None" entry currently listed for his subdomains?

Whore Queens

Ardad Lili: Devil, Dragon, Love, Lust
Eiseth: Blood, Catastrophe, Devil, Rage
Doloras: Catastrophe, Devil, Souls, Rage
Mahathallah: Deception, Devils, Thievery, Undead

For Aroden, I'd rather not list any subdomains. In fact, I'd rather we hadn't listed domains for him in Humans of Golarion—those domains are really only there for historical purposes, I guess, but since he can't grant them anymore and is dead, it doesn't matter what his subdomains were.

Whore Queens

Ardad Lili: Devil, Dragon, Love, Lust
Eiseth: Blood, Catastrophe, Devil, Rage
Doloras: Catastrophe, Devil, Souls, Rage
Mahathallah: Deception, Devils, Thievery, Undead

Thanks for that, James!

For Aroden, I'd rather not list any subdomains. In fact, I'd rather we hadn't listed domains for him in Humans of Golarion—those domains are really only there for historical purposes, I guess, but since he can't grant them anymore and is dead, it doesn't matter what his subdomains were.

I respect your reasoning here, though I don't agree with it. I have a player who's going to be joining my group, and he thinks it'd be cool to be the last cleric of Aroden, bringing with it an automatic backstory about how he's receiving power from a dead deity at all. I like the idea, particularly since I'm leaning towards running the Council of Thieves AP, and wanted to give him all the options that I could (everyone in my group has the APG).

I respect your reasoning here, though I don't agree with it. I have a player who's going to be joining my group, and he thinks it'd be cool to be the last cleric of Aroden, bringing with it an automatic backstory about how he's receiving power from a dead deity at all. I like the idea, particularly since I'm leaning towards running the Council of Thieves AP, and wanted to give him all the options that I could (everyone in my group has the APG).

So go ahead and pick what seem like good domains and subdomains. As Creative Director, I've learned that my comments here on these boards when it comes to rules can be taken FAR too literally, and as a result if its a topic that either is something I'm not comfortable rendering help on because I don't feel I'm enough of an expert in it OR if it's a topic I'd rather not see given "legitimacy" by an off hand comment by me, I tend to err on the side of not commenting.

In the case of Aroden, he's a dead god. The fact that he's dead is one of the core assumptions and load-bearing bits of lore in our campaign setting. As a result, I don't want to blur that line by doing something like providing domains and subdomains for him—the fact that us listing subdomains for him in Humans of Golarion is frustrating enough without me complicating things even more by officially assigning him subdomains.

So just assign subdomains that seem right for you and have at it. Allowing a cleric of Aroden to cast spells is already off-canon from Golarion—you're already doing something different than the way we present things, so there should be no problem with you going further down that rabbit hole and doing some more of the "heavy lifting" yourself as GM for the game. In fact, coming up with your own rules for a game is part of the fun of being a GM.

You certainly don't have to worry about me coming along and "invalidating" your subdomain choices for Aroden (although I suppose someone might sneak them into print under my radar some day just to vex me, as happened with this current situation with his domains showing up in Humans of Golarion).

... although I suppose someone might sneak [subdomains for Aroden] into print under my radar some day just to vex me, as happened with this current situation ...

They tasks me! They tasks me, and I shall have them!

All the subdomains assigned to deities (to this point) in this blog and associated forum; the previous week's blog; APG; Wake of the Watcher are collated in the Pathfinder Wiki:

http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Subdomain

We'll endeavour to keep it up to date if more is added here or elsewhere.

If people think there are mistakes or omissions on the wiki let us know here or on the Discussion page of the Subdomains article.

Thanks

James,

Is there any chance we could get subdomains for Yuelral?

:-)

Are there any plans to release all these Deities' subdomains in some sort of future Paizo product or pdf?

James,

Is there any chance we could get subdomains for Yuelral?

:-)

Are there any plans to release all these Deities' subdomains in some sort of future Paizo product or pdf?

At this point there are no plans to release these subdomains in some sort of future product.

In any event...

Yuelral: Agathion, Arcane, Construct, Divine

Brother Elias wrote:

I have a PFS character (ex-druid cleric) that worships Zarongel. It might be nice to know his subdomains.

Thanks!

Zarongel: Ash, Exploration, Fur, Smoke

This should now be:

according to Goblins of Golarion, which I assume should supersede this statement in this messageboard thread. The Pathfinder wiki is now up to date with this data.

James Jacobs wrote:

Brother Elias wrote:

I have a PFS character (ex-druid cleric) that worships Zarongel. It might be nice to know his subdomains.

Thanks!

Zarongel: Ash, Exploration, Fur, Smoke

This should now be:

Zarongel: Arson, Daemon, Fur, Smoke

according to Goblins of Golarion, which I assume should supersede this statement in this messageboard thread. The Pathfinder wiki is now up to date with this data.

Correct. I didn't want to debut the Arson subdomain in a messageboard.

Lazaro wrote:

What no love for the Peacock? You make my evil, mulitcolored god angry V_V

The Peacock Spirit is a dead god. Or if he's not dead, she's effectively dead, since he no longer has contact with her minions. If it was indeed ever a god to begin with. What exactly the Peacock Spirit is and was and might one day be again is still a mystery.

I'm seeing the Peacock Spirit as a NE Creature of the WAY out outer planes, a Nyarlahotep who is just a little too self-distracted to do active evil. The possiblity of contacting it is still there but, you have to either do the massive research or do it by a fluke. The cleric in one of my campaigns is about to learn that. XD Having domains that will attract the attention of it when used in one of its old temples. The cleric has a fairly single-minded drive for more knowledge and for runes... should be fun.

And by Neutral Evil... I mean Neutral ALIEN.

I may have missed this somewhere, but if a deity offers a subdomain without offering the domain that subdomain is normally associated with, which domain should the subdomain be attached to in order to determine the remaining spells and abilities?

For example Velani gets the Growth subdomain, but not the Plant domain. Which domain does she choose her 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th etc domain spells from? Only 1st and 5th are covered under the subdomain.

Also, is there any way for an Oracle of Szuriel to take the Fire or Battle mysteries, or do Oracles of Szuriel not exist?

I may have missed this somewhere, but if a deity offers a subdomain without offering the domain that subdomain is normally associated with, which domain should the subdomain be attached to in order to determine the remaining spells and abilities?

For example Velani gets the Growth subdomain, but not the Plant domain. Which domain does she choose her 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th etc domain spells from? Only 1st and 5th are covered under the subdomain.

Also, is there any way for an Oracle of Szuriel to take the Fire or Battle mysteries, or do Oracles of Szuriel not exist?

EDIT: I misunderstood the first part of the question. Beckket just below has it right.

Oracles aren't tied to deities. You'd just make an oracle of Fire or an oracle of Battle and then just state to your GM that you worship Szuriel. Although it should be relatively unusual for an Oracle to worship just one deity.

SubDomains are an existing Domain with minor changes to it (one Domain power, and 1-5ish spells).

If the deity doesn't grant the normal Domain (Plant), then Clerics and whatnot can only take the SubDomain option (Growth), and grant the abilities of the Plant Domain, except what Growth changes. So for the spells and abilities not listed under Growth, they use the Plant Domain.

For example Velani gets the Growth subdomain, but not the Plant domain. Which domain does she choose her 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th etc domain spells from? Only 1st and 5th are covered under the subdomain.

Since the sub-domain is a modification of the core domain, I'd rule that it only exists as a modification of that core domain.

So a cleric of Velani with the Growth sub-domain should use the underlying Plant Domain components. (But they wouldn't be able to take the un-modified Plant Domain.)

Also, is there any way for an Oracle of Szuriel to take the Fire or Battle mysteries, or do Oracles of Szuriel not exist?

An Oracle (Battle, Fire, whatever) *can* choose to follow a particular diety, but the intent of the class is that it allows for divine casters who *aren't* necessarily worshippers of specific gods.

So, really, there's no reason why a worshipper of Szuriel couldn't be an Oracle of Battle or Fire (or get their fiery or warlike enlightenments from Szuriel), but most Oracles of Battle or Fire wouldn't specifically follow Szuriel or Asmodeus or Sarenrae or any other diety of fire.

In the case of Aroden, he's a dead god. The fact that he's dead is one of the core assumptions and load-bearing bits of lore in our campaign setting. As a result, I don't want to blur that line by doing something like providing domains and subdomains for him—the fact that us listing ... domains for him in Humans of Golarion is frustrating enough without me complicating things even more by officially assigning him subdomains.

Question: Are scrolls and wands made by clerics of Aroden still magical? If so, then it might be useful to know which powers legacy items like those might hold.

Stormfriend wrote:

I may have missed this somewhere, but if a deity offers a subdomain without offering the domain that subdomain is normally associated with, which domain should the subdomain be attached to in order to determine the remaining spells and abilities?

When a deity offers a subdomain like that, the cleric picks which domain that he uses that swaps the powers from. So if you worship Velani and you're a cleric, you pick two domains. Then you want to replace one with Growth; pick one of the two domains you've chosen, and then swap out the stuff from that one.

Can Clerics who DO have access to the normal ´base´ Domain of the Sub-Domain ALSO choose ANY Domain to be the ´base´ on which the Sub-Domain ´over-writes´?

Honestly, I have always run and seen it played as the Sub-Domains are always linked to the base Domain (like Set describes above), but IF it isn´t meant to work like that for Clerics/Inquisitors/Paladins who DON´T normally have access to the BASE Domain which the Sub-Domain is based off of, I don´t see why Clerics who DO have access to the Base Domain would NEED to choose the Base Domain as the base anymore than those Clerics who don´t have access to the Base Domain...???

----------------------------------------------

Question like ´can Oracles of Suzuriel take X Mysteries´ or ´do Oracles of Suzuriel exist?´ are over-looking the main point about Oracles. ¨Oracles of Suzuriel¨ exist just as much as Fighters or Rogues or Experts of Suzuriel... Anybody can choose to worship a Deity. That worship has no direct impact on the Spellcasting and Revelation/Curse Functions of the Oracle Class.

James Jacobs wrote:

Stormfriend wrote:

I may have missed this somewhere, but if a deity offers a subdomain without offering the domain that subdomain is normally associated with, which domain should the subdomain be attached to in order to determine the remaining spells and abilities?

When a deity offers a subdomain like that, the cleric picks which domain that he uses that swaps the powers from. So if you worship Velani and you're a cleric, you pick two domains. Then you want to replace one with Growth; pick one of the two domains you've chosen, and then swap out the stuff from that one.

Can Clerics who DO have access to the normal ´base´ Domain of the Sub-Domain ALSO choose ANY Domain to be the ´base´ on which the Sub-Domain ´over-writes´?

As I just edited my original post... I misunderstood the question and got the answer wrong. You don't get to choose what domain powers you replace; subdomain powers ALWAYS replace the powers of their "parent" domain. So if you take the Growth subdomain, you get an altered Plant domain changed to be the Growth subdomain, even if you don't normally get the Plant domain.

James Jacobs wrote:

In the case of Aroden, he's a dead god. The fact that he's dead is one of the core assumptions and load-bearing bits of lore in our campaign setting. As a result, I don't want to blur that line by doing something like providing domains and subdomains for him—the fact that us listing ... domains for him in Humans of Golarion is frustrating enough without me complicating things even more by officially assigning him subdomains.

Question: Are scrolls and wands made by clerics of Aroden still magical? If so, then it might be useful to know which powers legacy items like those might hold.

While items created by clerics of Aroden back when he was alive still work normally (their magic is "stored" in the item), tracking what deity a cleric who created an item is, in my opinion, unnecessary micromanagement. If it ends up mattering in your game, go ahead and assign subdomains to Aroden as you wish. I'm not gonna do it for you, and so you never have to worry about something I say on the subject "obsoleting" your ruling, so it's all good!

Also just wanted to point out that the Growth SubDomain's Domain power went through a pretty significant errata, (depending on what printing/edition you have). I believe it is 1 round per cleric (class) level, able to be broken down as you see fit, and you have to activate it each round or lose it before your action.

Thanks for the replies guys, I was just using Growth as the first example to hand but it's a question that's been bugging me for a while.

I know I'm not the only one who was wondering about Oracles and deities too, so this opens up lots of interesting character opportunities in PFS. I just need more scenarios to play them in now...

Sweet Jesus

This blog and the other blog on Pharasma from Feb 10th just got added to the PFS additional resources guide.

While I'm floored and amazed and grateful for all the thought put into it and all the work done, do I really have to print up the entire blog and all it's posts for it to be considered a "legal reference"?

The posts contain valuable additional information that is too juicy to miss!

Hey, I just thought of something, by posting this, I've become part of the document too!

Hi Mom!

Very interesting...also the tie to certain themes that allows certain exceptional sub-domains was a clever mechanic, and makes sense fluff-wise. Might put it to use with homebrew pantheons as well.

Just for fun, for use in my home game, I swapped in the subdomains from Goblins of Golarion for gods I thought they fit:

ARSON
Deity - Replaces
Moloch - Smoke
Szuriel - Ferocity

FLOTSAM
Deity - Replaces
Besmara - Deception
Hanspur - Trade
Jubilex - Oceans

SLAVERY
Deity - Replaces
Asmodeus - Divine
Dispater - Thievery
Lissala - Thought

TORTURE
Deity - Replaces
Belial - Catastrophe
Shax - Leadership
Zon-Kuthon - Catastrophe

Whore Queens

Ardad Lili: Devil, Dragon, Love, Lust
Eiseth: Blood, Catastrophe, Devil, Rage
Doloras: Catastrophe, Devil, Souls, Rage
Mahathallah: Deception, Devils, Thievery, Undead

Very sorry to be asking like 6 months behind the original discussion - but is it known if these can be selected by characters as part of Pathfinder Society organized play for worship/etc?

Thanks very much!

You can't be an evil PC in the Pathfinder Society.

While you can worship an evil deity and not be evil yourself... you're still worshiping an evil deity, and since we often use evil deities as bad guy elements in adventures, being a worshiper of an evil deity could very easily result in a situation where your character could be put in an awkward situation where the goal of your group and your religious beliefs could clash in ways that might very well not be palatable to you as the player of a character who worships an evil deity.

I heartily and strongly recommend that you do NOT play a character who worships an evil deitt in Pathfinder Society play as a result.

Very insightful answer - thank you!

My other thought was to worship a good/neutral deity, but be "fascinated" with the culture surrounding an evil one, noting similarities between that one and the good/neutral one, etc. A bit of a roleplay-story element in a character that might lead him to find certain things challenging where most characters might not.

Thanks very much for the information, and I will certainly take your recommendation to heart and will not take an evil deity as my character's choice.

You can't be an evil PC in the Pathfinder Society.

While you can worship an evil deity and not be evil yourself... you're still worshiping an evil deity, and since we often use evil deities as bad guy elements in adventures, being a worshiper of an evil deity could very easily result in a situation where your character could be put in an awkward situation where the goal of your group and your religious beliefs could clash in ways that might very well not be palatable to you as the player of a character who worships an evil deity.

I heartily and strongly recommend that you do NOT play a character who worships an evil deitt in Pathfinder Society play as a result.

My other thought was to worship a good/neutral deity, but be "fascinated" with the culture surrounding an evil one, noting similarities between that one and the good/neutral one, etc. A bit of a roleplay-story element in a character that might lead him to find certain things challenging where most characters might not.

[tangent]

Having a half-orc, for instance, idealize orcish culture, seeing a certain Darwinian/Randian 'only the strong & ruthless deserve to survive and thrive' nobility to their brutishness, and then, as he meets more and more actual orcs, finding them to be quite a bit less glamorous and noble and admirable up close...

That sort of idealization of something that doesn't live up to those ideals can be fun to roleplay, and the character can react in all sorts of ways (trying to 'correct' the people who aren't living up to his ideals, trying to erase them from existence for 'sullying the name' of his pet culture, claiming that they are exceptions and that the *real* so-and-so's are still out there, or even becoming disillusioned and abandoning that rosy-spectacled interpretation).

Granted, that last option is less fun to roleplay. Clinging to denial is way more fun than admitting to defeat. :)
[/tangent]

Hoping you still answer questions on this thread...

What subdomains would you allocate to Shamira? Base domains are chaos, charm, evil, nobility.
Given what she is, demon and lust are pretty much clear... nobility might spawn leadership; but I am pretty much stumped after that.

Hoping you still answer questions on this thread...

What subdomains would you allocate to Shamira? Base domains are chaos, charm, evil, nobility.
Given what she is, demon and lust are pretty much clear... nobility might spawn leadership; but I am pretty much stumped after that.

Shamira: Demon, Leadership, Love, Lust

To confirm: all subdomain information to this point in this forum is collated into the PathfinderWiki, in summary format, at:

PathfinderWiki: Subdomain

Individual information is also incorporated into each deity's page.

We endeavour to keep up to date with this excellent work by James and the community.

And may I just add a hearty "Thank You, James!" to this thread, both for the original blog, and keeping up with it.

James, this may be an odd request but I was hoping you would consider it.

I play PSF and we've been told we can use the rules from your original blog post but nothing in the comment section.

I was hoping you could repost this blog with an updated list that includes all the great work you've put into it. Either that or find some other way we can compress these rules into a useable, printable format, that we can bring to our PFS games.

Thanks much.

OooOOooooo! First annoying Arazni related post of 2012!!!! Dear James, if you would, what where Arazni's subdomains? The Shining Crusade, Knights of Ozem and Arazni play important parts in the history of my current campaign and it would be nice to know. I COULD make up my own version, but the canon version would be awesome! =)

Thanx!

James, this may be an odd request but I was hoping you would consider it.

I play PSF and we've been told we can use the rules from your original blog post but nothing in the comment section.

I was hoping you could repost this blog with an updated list that includes all the great work you've put into it. Either that or find some other way we can compress these rules into a useable, printable format, that we can bring to our PFS games.

Thanks much.

I'll see what I can do... but the blog serves many masters and I'm not really one of them.

In the meantime, it's worth keeping in mind that the PFS is NOT the place to "push the boundaries" with fringe type characters... that includes characters who worship obscure deities. The Massively Multiplayer Offline nature of PFS makes many of those fringe choices poor ones due to the fact that we can't fully support them... they're better choices for home games.

OooOOooooo! First annoying Arazni related post of 2012!!!! Dear James, if you would, what where Arazni's subdomains? The Shining Crusade, Knights of Ozem and Arazni play important parts in the history of my current campaign and it would be nice to know. I COULD make up my own version, but the canon version would be awesome! =)

Thanx!

Arazni's subdomains aren't listed because she's not able to grant them anymore. If you're going to do something like a historical campaign... you'll have to be comfortable with making up a lot of the stuff on your own, extrapolating them from what sounds right. AKA: I'm not comfortable assigning Arazni's domains and subdomains here because if I do some day far in the future, I'll probably not remember I already did them here...

Thanks for answering! I'll whip something up that works.

Any plans to put the full list (minus dead gods and former deities, of course) of subdomains in a print product ever?

It would be handy to have.