Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

Ultimate Magic

Tuesday, October 5, 2010

With Bestiary 2 down, it's time to start working on the next massive hardcover: Ultimate Magic. Check back at this spot soon for details on the second part of the Ultimate Magic playtest.

Wes Schneider
Managing Editor

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Alahazra Iconics Magi Monsters Oracles Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Seltyiel Undead Wayne Reynolds
Dark Archive

Just WOW!

Alahazra gives Seltyiel a run for his money for the best iconic torso.

Silver Crusade

I've never mentioned this before, but....I do love the art direction decision to have those visible spellcasting signatures rather than just "glowy hands".

Now this raises the question of who is going to be on Ultimate Combat's cover. Sajan + an AGP iconic?


baron arem heshvaun wrote:
Alahazra gives Seltyiel a run for his money for the best iconic torso.

I must remember, no carbs after 10 pm ...


Alahazra is definitely the new most attractive iconic.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
lavi wrote:
Alahazra is definitely the new most attractive iconic.

I'm more of a Feiya-man myself ('coz I've got this thing for garters), but Alahazra sure look awesome in this picture.


STOP TEASING ME WITH THAT GREAT COVER!!!!!

..I don't think I can take much more of it...


Simply awesome cover! If the contents deliver on that scale... oh my!


Wow! Awesome! This and the awesome WAR art for Nick Logue's Razor Coast are now my desktop!


Mikaze wrote:
I've never mentioned this before, but....I do love the art direction decision to have those visible spellcasting signatures rather than just "glowy hands".

+1!

Cover: SO. AWESOME.


I think Paizo would make a good bit of extra change just selling prints of their art work.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cartigan wrote:
I think Paizo would make a good bit of extra change just selling prints of their art work.

I kind of thought the same, before I asked Wayne about the prices.

A part of me died when he answered. I recall Todd Stewart selling his kidney and eating Ramen for a year just to afford the Great Beyond cover print :)


Gorbacz wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
I think Paizo would make a good bit of extra change just selling prints of their art work.

I kind of thought the same, before I asked Wayne about the prices.

A part of me died when he answered. I recall Todd Stewart selling his kidney and eating Ramen for a year just to afford the Great Beyond cover print :)

Well prices usually are based on size and quality of a print. A basic poster is fairly affordable at any size. A hardcore laser cal at around the original artwork size will run ridiculous amounts of money. The fact they are putting them out on $40 books means they should be able to at least put out basic poster quality prints for affordable amounts of money.

The Exchange

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That's an absolutely amazing picture. I really wish I could afford a print of that one...

The Exchange

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Cartigan wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
I think Paizo would make a good bit of extra change just selling prints of their art work.

I kind of thought the same, before I asked Wayne about the prices.

A part of me died when he answered. I recall Todd Stewart selling his kidney and eating Ramen for a year just to afford the Great Beyond cover print :)

Well prices usually are based on size and quality of a print. A basic poster is fairly affordable at any size. A hardcore laser cal at around the original artwork size will run ridiculous amounts of money. The fact they are putting them out on $40 books means they should be able to at least put out basic poster quality prints for affordable amounts of money.

If they have the rights to do that.

I'm no lawyer and don't know how buying the pictures works for companies, but other than use on the site and re-use in books I don't think Paizo would have the rights to reprint the picture in a "print" unless they bought the rights for it from Wayne.

Scarab Sages

That is definitely, in my humble opinion, in the top 10 best cover artwork every done for the Pathfinder line!

Jon Brazer Enterprises

LMPjr007 wrote:

STOP TEASING ME WITH THAT GREAT COVER!!!!!

..I don't think I can take much more of it...

Cartigan wrote:
I think Paizo would make a good bit of extra change just selling prints of their art work.
Alizor wrote:
That's an absolutely amazing picture. I really wish I could afford a print of that one...
Tarrintino wrote:
That is definitely, in my humble opinion, in the top 10 best cover artwork every done for the Pathfinder line!

+1 total agreement.


Alizor wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
I think Paizo would make a good bit of extra change just selling prints of their art work.

I kind of thought the same, before I asked Wayne about the prices.

A part of me died when he answered. I recall Todd Stewart selling his kidney and eating Ramen for a year just to afford the Great Beyond cover print :)

Well prices usually are based on size and quality of a print. A basic poster is fairly affordable at any size. A hardcore laser cal at around the original artwork size will run ridiculous amounts of money. The fact they are putting them out on $40 books means they should be able to at least put out basic poster quality prints for affordable amounts of money.

If they have the rights to do that.

I'm no lawyer and don't know how buying the pictures works for companies, but other than use on the site and re-use in books I don't think Paizo would have the rights to reprint the picture in a "print" unless they bought the rights for it from Wayne.

Either way, some one has rights to the artwork.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would really like to have a poster of this cover, as well as the Bestiary (1 and 2), the Advanced Player's Guide, and Gamemaster's Guide.

I simply LOVE Wayne Reynolds artwork.

C'mon Paizo folks... make it so. (Pretty please). :)

Dean (TMW)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I believe that the deal is exactly as Alizor describes: Paizo can use WAR's artwork in their products, but he retains the rights to selling prints.

Scarab Sages

How do you outdo yourself every time?, this guy is incredible.

Dark Archive

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

Just WOW!

Alahazra gives Seltyiel a run for his money for the best iconic torso.

Agreed. This image is epic. I'd almost consider purchasing the original.

Scarab Sages

Last Paizo Con Wayne was on hand to sell prints of his work. Picked up the iconic witch for our friend.

Were bringing more money next year I hope. (Waynes prices were very affordable.)

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

The prints are very reasonable. Original art very expensive, appropriately so. Though I was tempted by the Sajan iconic original.

And the cover: OMG. Thank you Paizo and WAR!

Silver Crusade

Rune Lord of Gluttony wrote:
baron arem heshvaun wrote:
Alahazra gives Seltyiel a run for his money for the best iconic torso.
I must remember, no carbs after 10 pm ...

Just remember, James Jacobs did say that they were all bisexual until further notice!

You know, this does have a sort of old-school Frazetta/Vallejo-ness about it somehow. Maybe it's the layout and smoky background that's making me think of it that way.


Awesome art. However i do have to take a stand for all the chubby adventurers out there. We need new iconics. Iconics that can't grate cheese with their abs.

Since Seltyiel was already used for the EK, why not create a new chubby magus iconic. Let's call him Gary. Gary the magus. Between adventuring and reading up on a bunch of magic stuff, Gary just likes to relax and gorge on pork chops and gravy....

Musk - Founder of the CAL (Chubby Adventurer League)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

I'm not going to go into the precise details of our art contracts, but generally, we can do whatever we want with the art we commission, though the artist retains a limited list of things they can also do with it, and they retain the original art.

That said, I put art prints in the same category as T-shirts—the number of people who actually buy them is always much smaller than anyone would like. (We still have some of Wayne's Age of Worms art prints left from 2005, and that's *after* we discounted them by about 40% a while back...)

Dark Archive

Yeah while I wouldn't mind having some art prints. They would be way down on my list of things to buy. What I would love to see though is a lot of the covers of the varies books turned into wallpapers.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Vic Wertz wrote:
That said, I put art prints in the same category as T-shirts—the number of people who actually buy them is always much smaller than anyone would like. (We still have some of Wayne's Age of Worms art prints left from 2005, and that's *after* we discounted them by about 40% a while back...)

That's a bummer. I really like my bought-at-full-price print.


Vic Wertz wrote:


That said, I put art prints in the same category as T-shirts—the number of people who actually buy them is always much smaller than anyone would like. (We still have some of Wayne's Age of Worms art prints left from 2005, and that's *after* we discounted them by about 40% a while back...)

It's really going to depend on perspective and content too. Some things are going to sell better than others - that's nice artwork, but its not focused on the characters or the action so much as it is a dust jacket drawing. Maybe do a groupon thing and don't print anything until X number of people have committed to buying a print of Y artwork.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Cartigan wrote:
It's really going to depend on perspective and content too. Some things are going to sell better than others - that's nice artwork, but its not focused on the characters or the action so much as it is a dust jacket drawing.

Yep—that's another way in which it's like T-shirts. Find any of the threads on the board about T-shirt ideas, and you'll find tons of division: I only want black, I want anything but black, I want an image with no words, I want it to say "Pathfinder" real big right at the top... and the same thing happens with art prints: I want small, I want big, I want super-expensive paper stock, I want it to be $5.99...

Cartigan wrote:
Maybe do a groupon thing and don't print anything until X number of people have committed to buying a print of Y artwork.

A couple of years ago, we put up a few T-shirt designs, and asked people to pledge to buy the ones they liked; once we had enough pledges to make a given design profitable, we'd make it.

People jumped on the survey, and within a couple of weeks, we had enough pledges on all three of the designs that we had put up. So then we called for them to convert their pledges into actual orders, and even in the *best* case, fewer than 50% of the pledges converted to orders. For one of the designs—a Valeros shirt—fewer than 30% of the people who pledged actually placed orders, so we never made that one. Even though the actual orders didn't justify it, we made the other two designs anyway—the Paizo golem shirt, which is still available in every size more than two years later, and a black goblin tee, which did eventually sell out—but nowhere near as quickly as the pledges suggested it would.

Obviously, there's a difference between asking for pledges and asking for orders, but I'm really not comfortable asking people to place orders for things that may not get made; canceling those orders means we get to send a "sorry to disappoint you" email to everyone, and I *hate* having to do that.

Scarab Sages

Have you considered something ala "order of the stick" with cafe press?

I know you would make much less money this way, but hopefully the work involved and money invested would be much less as well.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

DragonBelow wrote:

Have you considered something ala "order of the stick" with cafe press?

I know you would make much less money this way, but hopefully the work involved and money invested would be much less as well.

Admittedly, it's been a couple of years since I've seen anything from Cafe Press, but their quality, well, it left a lot to be desired. Has it improved?


Vic Wertz wrote:

A couple of years ago, we put up a few T-shirt designs, and asked people to pledge to buy the ones they liked; once we had enough pledges to make a given design profitable, we'd make it.

People jumped on the survey, and within a couple of weeks, we had enough pledges on all three of the designs that we had put up. So then we called for them to convert their pledges into actual orders, and even in the *best* case, fewer than 50% of the pledges converted to orders. For one of the designs—a Valeros shirt—fewer than 30% of the people who pledged actually placed orders, so we never made that one. Even though the actual orders didn't justify it, we made the other two designs anyway—the Paizo golem shirt, which is still available in every size more than two years later, and a black goblin tee, which did eventually sell out—but nowhere near as quickly as the pledges suggested it would.

Obviously, there's a difference between asking for pledges and asking for orders, but I'm really not comfortable asking people to place orders for things that may not get made; canceling those orders means we get to send a "sorry to disappoint you" email to everyone, and I *hate* having to do that.

I think groupon makes people put their money in first then returns it if they don't do the deal.

Quote:
Admittedly, it's been a couple of years since I've seen anything from Cafe Press, but their quality, well, it left a lot to be desired. Has it improved?

The only really good quality shirts I've seen are from Penny-Arcade in their ThinkGeek sale though I haven't gotten anything from Cafe Press, but other shirts I have picked up are a bit shabbier in the quality department.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Vic Wertz wrote:
Admittedly, it's been a couple of years since I've seen anything from Cafe Press, but their quality, well, it left a lot to be desired. Has it improved?

No. I tried that for my first printed product. I didn't bother with a second. If their t-shirts and such are anything like their printed books, don't bother.

Liberty's Edge

lavi wrote:
Alahazra is definitely the new most attractive iconic.

I disagree. I put my vote on lovely Imrijka. I would like Alahazra better if you couldn't see her ribs. Serious turnoff for me. =p

Jeremy Puckett


Wed Schneider wrote:
With Bestiary 2 down, it's time to start working on the next massive hardcover: Ultimate Magic.

Next hardcover... you mean Guide to the Inner Sea right?

I'm actually not really feeling it with this cover - nothing wrong with it, and was much better when I realized there was a high-res version, but the only thing that really stands out to me is the skelly in the bottom left with the stone axe.


hida_jiremi wrote:
lavi wrote:
Alahazra is definitely the new most attractive iconic.

I disagree. I put my vote on lovely Imrijka. I would like Alahazra better if you couldn't see her ribs. Serious turnoff for me. =p

Jeremy Puckett

I kinda wish we had Seoni on here. I just think that magic = great breastesses...

She's hot, still my favorite iconic after the clocktower scene in the Skinsaw Murders.


Russ Taylor wrote:

The prints are very reasonable. Original art very expensive, appropriately so. Though I was tempted by the Sajan iconic original.

And the cover: OMG. Thank you Paizo and WAR!

The painting is awesome and does have the smoky feel of Frank's inks.

Dark Archive

Beercifer wrote:
hida_jiremi wrote:
lavi wrote:
Alahazra is definitely the new most attractive iconic.

I disagree. I put my vote on lovely Imrijka. I would like Alahazra better if you couldn't see her ribs. Serious turnoff for me. =p

Jeremy Puckett

I kinda wish we had Seoni on here. I just think that magic = great breastesses...

She's hot, still my favorite iconic after the clocktower scene in the Skinsaw Murders.

Anime fan? Bigger the girls boobs the more power she has?

Dark Archive

On Tuesday, October 5, 2010, Wes Schneider wrote:
With Bestiary 2 down, it's time to start working on the next massive hardcover: Ultimate Magic. Check back at this spot soon for details on the second part of the Ultimate Magic playtest.

What a tease...

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