Meet the Iconics: Damiel

Tuesday, August 3, 2010

Flayleaf may ease your mind. Pesh may invigorate your humors. Yet as any sage and scholar can tell you, knowledge is the most addictive drug. And once the quest for learning has its hooks into you—once your eyes have been opened—there’s no tearing free.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

Damiel Morgethai was born, as so many elves are, in the nation of Kyonin. One of innumerable scions of the prestigious Morgethai family, he grew up in the picturesque town of Riverspire, where the southwestern border of Kyonin’s great forest gives way to fertile, rolling plains. When finally old enough to pursue a trade, the exceedingly precocious young elf was loaded up with what funds his family could spare and packed off to the shining capital of Iadara, to study alchemy under several of the art’s great masters. And it was here that the trouble started.

Damiel took to alchemy immediately, reveling in the idea of transmutation—the changing of one thing into another, by means chemical or arcane. “Alchemy,” he was fond of proclaiming to his friends, “is pure magic, even when it isn’t.” Within a few short years, the brilliant and studious Damiel had learned enough from his instructors that they set him loose to pursue his own studies, becoming advisors and respected colleagues rather than true masters.

Yet he had learned more than just strange formulae in Iadara. As cheerful and innocent as it seemed on the surface, Damiel’s obsession with what he called “the Change” went beyond the simple curatives of an apothecary, beyond even the magical and explosive concoctions of those alchemists trained for battle. In his eternal quest to understand his theories better, Damiel gave himself literally to his studies, and began to use his concoctions on his own flesh, striving to unlock the full potential of his body. What emerged from those long, sleepless nights was someone new. Someone dangerous.

Officially, Damiel’s banishment from Kyonin was the result of plagiarizing another alchemist’s discoveries, or perhaps siring an illegitimate son with an embarrassed noble. The documents don’t speak of the way his former friends noticed the change in his eyes, which became increasingly wild as lack of sleep and increasing amounts of “invigorating aether” took their toll. They don’t note the sudden rash of crimes in the districts he frequented, daring thefts and capricious arson. And they certainly don’t mention the young woman found in the alley behind his apartment, her face burned near away in an ultimately successful attempt to hide her identity—and the identity of her killer. In truth, the later would be difficult to decipher anyway, as even the killer himself might have trouble recognizing the monster that would take a girl’s life simply for seeing something she shouldn’t.

For Damiel was no longer the man that he once was. In his thirst for ever-greater secrets, he had unlocked enormous potential—strange tinctures that quickened his movements to a blur, or twisted his constitution to survive any poison or malady. Yet while he gained ever-increasing control over the vagaries of his flesh, these discoveries took their toll on his mind. He fell deep into addiction, deeper than even the aether he was so fond of could match. He would lose himself to the Change, only to wake from a maddened stupor and find that he’d done terrible things. And worse, that he no longer cared.

Exiled from his homeland, Damiel wandered for many years, slowly learning to control and live with his addictions. Gone were the blackouts, the uncontrolled and senseless violence. In their place grew a hard and haunted-eyed young man, handsome save for his wild look and the puckered scars along his veins. Seeking to peddle his secret knowledge, he traveled to Daggermark in the River Kingdoms, joining up with that city’s Poisoners’ Guild. For a time, his unique concoctions made him a minor celebrity in certain circles. But as the months passed, Damiel’s control over his base nature slipped, and the old lust for the beautiful chaos of unconscious (and unconscionable) action took over, loosing the beast of the Change to walk the streets. In the end, the Poisoners’ Guild took terminal offense to Damiel’s “exploits,” and though the elf argued hard that his deviant handiwork—being unpaid—was none of the guild’s concern, he was forced to go his own way once again.

Today, Damiel has grown further, into a man of two minds. The first—the greatest remaining shadow of the Damiel Morgethai That Was—truly repents for the arbitrary and senseless suffering he’s caused, and attempts to keep his darker urges in check. The second is that man brought forth by the Change, the mad and capricious soul that holds all other creatures in contempt, and exists only to feel the heat of the explosion on his face or see the shifting colors of poisoned flesh. This latter comes forth primarily in combat, where Damiel’s potions push his body faster than it has any right to move, flitting through the fray to fling corrosive ash or nick warriors so delicately with his poisoned injection-blade that many don’t know they’ve been cut until they find themselves unable to breathe. Though Damiel no longer gives his vile tendencies full rein, and carries himself well in social situations, most who look into those bagged and bloodshot eyes quickly understand the truth of his nature: unbalanced, unstable, unpredictable—and totally indispensable in a fight, which is why he still manages to fall in with other adventurers from time to time. And as he continues to mature, some of them even survive his companionship.

James L. Sutter
Fiction Editor

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Tags: Alchemists Damiel Iconics Meet the Iconics Wayne Reynolds
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Aelryinth wrote:

Also, this writeup on the iconic is written poorly. I'm sorry, Damiel is not a man...he's a male elf. His perspective isn't human, and his changed perspective wouldn't be human, either. IT'd be murderous, capricious fey, not bestial, ferocious psycopath (fey could be considered psycopaths just based on what they are).

His insane side wouldn't be an emotionless, immoral killer; he'd be an inhuman, wildly capricious and destructively whimsical thing of alien desires and elemental passions that would trample down such petty things as moral restrictions on the way to doing whatever he thought was fun and would give him a thrill. Mercurial wouldn't even begin to suprise an elf with that mindset. He'd be exiled from his homeland because his lack of self-control would make it pretty obvious something was wrong with him.

==Aelryinth

That is EXACTLY what I meant. That's why I think Damiel should have been a human and NOT an elf. The description of the bestial/out-of-control Damiel is absolutely un-elven, but VERY human (being all rage and physical brutality).

That's why I say: OFF with them pointy ears!!!!


Alch wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Also, this writeup on the iconic is written poorly. I'm sorry, Damiel is not a man...he's a male elf. His perspective isn't human, and his changed perspective wouldn't be human, either. IT'd be murderous, capricious fey, not bestial, ferocious psycopath (fey could be considered psycopaths just based on what they are).

His insane side wouldn't be an emotionless, immoral killer; he'd be an inhuman, wildly capricious and destructively whimsical thing of alien desires and elemental passions that would trample down such petty things as moral restrictions on the way to doing whatever he thought was fun and would give him a thrill. Mercurial wouldn't even begin to suprise an elf with that mindset. He'd be exiled from his homeland because his lack of self-control would make it pretty obvious something was wrong with him.

==Aelryinth

That is EXACTLY what I meant. That's why I think Damiel should have been a human and NOT an elf. The description of the bestial/out-of-control Damiel is absolutely un-elven, but VERY human (being all rage and physical brutality).

That's why I say: OFF with them pointy ears!!!!

Racial profiling is bad, m'kay?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

mistaking an elf for a human is racial blindness, and bad writing. They even call him a Man...come on.

==Aelryinth


I think it's poor because it's not original. But that's me.


I have no issues with how it is written, why not call him a man? You do not think elves have words for man/woman after all they are just words for male/female.

This is not the first time the words Elven man has been used. I find using elven male, in place of elven man a bit odd really. As you can say human male or elven male just as easy and meaning the same thing as human man/ elven man. It's just adding male/female feels far to clinical to me them man/woman.


Slaunyeh wrote:
Racial profiling is bad, m'kay?

Hey, we're talking about Iconics and that means class and race Iconics. All the iconics so far represent a "typical"/average member of their race, as far as personality and outlook goes. Even Harsk, who chose an atypical class, still behaves like a dwarf.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Alch wrote:
Hey, we're talking about Iconics and that means class and race Iconics. All the iconics so far represent a "typical"/average member of their race, as far as personality and outlook goes. Even Harsk, who chose an atypical class, still behaves like a dwarf.

He's a tea drinker! A dwarf! That drinks tea! And not Long Island Iced Tea, either!

That's not exactly typical.


Kvantum wrote:
He's a tea drinker! A dwarf! That drinks tea! And not Long Island Iced Tea, either!

True, but the descriptive text explicitly says "the beer and ale that so characterize dwarves in the minds of human society".

In character he still is a dwarf ("gruff and taciturn", plus all the family loyalty... and weapon worshipping).


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so prey tell how should all humans act? As all other races only act one and only one way


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Pfft. She easily surpassed Seoni for me the first time I saw a color picture. Then again, I never did consider Seoni to be the best looking of the iconics...Amiri and Lini have her beat, and Merisiel is about dead even with her. From the APG, Alahazra is also about dead even, and like I said, Feiya beats her easily.
Yeeeeah. And sometimes they all get together and wash each other's hair and have splash fights. We've actually got art of that here, actually. We just don't feel it'd be appropriate to share. :P

GIVE! PLEASE!

Yeah, Feiya's a hotty.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
so prey tell how should all humans act? As all other races only act one and only one way

Humans, unlike the other races, are a diverse lot (hence all the different nations and ethnic groups). There defining trait IS their individuality and independence (even in restrictive human societies the heroes are always the ones that rebel).


I disagree, if every other race must be shown one way then all human must be shown always the same way.


So, what is being argued here, is that elves are one of the races from the Planet of Hats so to speak.

Liberty's Edge

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
I have no issues with how it is written, why not call him a man? You do not think elves have words for man/woman after all they are just words for male/female.

Elves and gender ? Dangerous territory. Just ask Vaarsuvius (of the OOTS gang)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

In my opinion, any race can be as varied as humans are listed. Sure, they have tendencies, but that's a societal situation...just like certain societies from our history. Maybe all the elves and dwarves in one world happen to be descended from a single family or whatever that loved the trees, but that's no reason to say that a member of the race has to act one way, which is just silly. If I felt like arguing about it, I'd start going over stereotypes in our world about various nations, but it isn't worth it.

Now, as for Damiel? I think he's cool. Not a character that I would want to play, but he's neat. Sure, his story isn't completely original, but no history I've seen is completely original. He has flavor, and I think he'd be fun to see in a game.


Caedwyr wrote:
So, what is being argued here, is that elves are one of the races from the Planet of Hats so to speak.

Yep, as are all the other D&D races (especially Iconics). Including vulcans, klingons and berellians.


Wouldn't it be kind of interesting if the elves weren't all from the planet of hats (and the same for all the other races)?


Caedwyr wrote:
Wouldn't it be kind of interesting if the elves weren't all from the planet of hats (and the same for all the other races)?

Sure, but the main idea behind fantasy races has always been to take certain human traits from the real world and then implement them as a race. Of course you can have your own character behave as you want, but there will always be - by definition - certain aspects that are expected. That's why the rulebooks give these descriptions and the Iconics are examples of them.


No now all humans must be white and from a pseudo English kingdom from the middle ages or they are not "acting " right.

This is what your saying all races must do. Which is silly. They are Races,a whole species of beings. They have sub cultures and kingdoms and ethnic groups just like humans.

Why should they be forced into one set culture, kingdom and ethnic group? And then forced to act the same way ever other member of that race does while humans are not?

If ya look at Golarion non of the races are of one type, each have kingdoms {mostly} and sub groups and not all act the same way. An elf from the Mierani forest, Mordant spire and kyonin are not the same nor are they one people.

Liberty's Edge

Alch wrote:
Caedwyr wrote:
Wouldn't it be kind of interesting if the elves weren't all from the planet of hats (and the same for all the other races)?
Sure, but the main idea behind fantasy races has always been to take certain human traits from the real world and then implement them as a race. Of course you can have your own character behave as you want, but there will always be - by definition - certain aspects that are expected. That's why the rulebooks give these descriptions and the Iconics are examples of them.

You are aware that there are also descriptions given for humans, right ?


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

No now all humans must be white and from a pseudo English kingdom from the middle ages or they are not "acting " right.

This is what your saying all races must do. Which is silly. They are Races,a whole species of beings. They have sub cultures and kingdoms and ethnic groups just like humans.

Why should they be forced into one set culture, kingdom and ethnic group? And then forced to act the same way ever other member of that race does while humans are not?

I explicitly said the fantasy races (ie those that don't exist in the real world). Humans (as I also noted further up) are a different case (their different cultures, nations and ethnic groups are based on real world ones).

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Wouldn't be much of a backstory if it read, 'Damiel's an alchemist. He's also an elf. See the PFRPG core book for how elves act.'


Elves by nature (especially in Golarion) are very chaotic creatures. As such I don't think it's surprising that some members of that race end up going a little bit strange like Damiel here seems to have. If you have the AP's, and in particular Second Darkness, you'll see that even good elves behave rather oddly in this world at times.

Now if you prefer your elves with a different kind of flavouring that's fine. But Damiel is an individual Golarion elf, not Generic Fantasy Elf #6. In the context of the world he's unusual sure, but I certainly wouldn't consider him an impossibility either.

Also I don't think it's true that the Iconics are meant to be an example of 'typical' members of their class and race. Damiel is what he is, a somewhat unusual elf and quite possibly an unusual alchemist too. He's meant to be himself, not an example of how elves and alchemists 'should' be.


Alch wrote:


I explicitly said the fantasy races (ie those that don't exist in the real world). Humans (as I also noted further up) are a different case (their different cultures, nations and ethnic groups are based on real world ones).

In fantasy humans are just a race like any other.

If ya look at Golarion non of the races are of one type, each have kingdoms {mostly} and sub groups and not all act the same way. An elf from the Mierani forest, Mordant spire and kyonin are not the same nor are they one people. They do not share one goal or driving force.

Same with the dwarves. The five kingdoms do not act the same, nor do the dwarves of kalsgard, kodar,mindspin, the shattered rang and osirion.

They are all races and just as devise as humans.


Set wrote:

Wouldn't be much of a backstory if it read, 'Damiel's an alchemist. He's also an elf. See the PFRPG core book for how elves act.'

People!!! Please read about what the original discussion was about. We said that the Jekyll/Hyde background with the character reverting to something primal and bestial did not fit with the primal traits of elves, ie an extreme version of the basic/core/defining characteristics/traits (and yes they are the same for Golarion elves).

We are not talking about kingdoms, cultures and sub-groups!


and why does it not fit elves? They can be just as savage as humans.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
and why does it not fit elves? They can be just as savage as humans.

Read what Aelryinth posted. Elves are chaotic, flighty and emotional. The Hyde side of Damiel is unemotional and physically brutal, like an animal and thus a lot more like the "primitive" (compared to the elves) humans.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Alch wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
and why does it not fit elves? They can be just as savage as humans.
Read what Aelryinth posted. Elves are chaotic, flighty and emotional. The Hyde side of Damiel is unemotional and physically brutal, like an animal and thus a lot more like the "primitive" (compared to the elves) humans.

And I will note that that's just one version of elves. The jungle/wild elves of various regions have different attitudes, and I draw that information from the APG. *shrugs* You can believe what you like, but I've grown quite used (and happy) to people breaking the stereotypes on races. For the best, in my opinion.


Cydeth wrote:
Alch wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
and why does it not fit elves? They can be just as savage as humans.
Read what Aelryinth posted. Elves are chaotic, flighty and emotional. The Hyde side of Damiel is unemotional and physically brutal, like an animal and thus a lot more like the "primitive" (compared to the elves) humans.
And I will note that that's just one version of elves. The jungle/wild elves of various regions have different attitudes, and I draw that information from the APG. *shrugs* You can believe what you like, but I've grown quite used (and happy) to people breaking the stereotypes on races. For the best, in my opinion.

I have a N elven mage. One of my favorite characters ever. It would be no fun to play her the way I do if it wasn't distinctly against stereotypes. All elves aren't X or Y, but if there aren't different cultural norms and personality trends then all races are JUST different stat bonuses. They should be different.


Alch wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
and why does it not fit elves? They can be just as savage as humans.
Read what Aelryinth posted. Elves are chaotic, flighty and emotional. The Hyde side of Damiel is unemotional and physically brutal, like an animal and thus a lot more like the "primitive" (compared to the elves) humans.

sure some elves are like that, but he taps into the raw savagery. There is not one way to play every race. And what your saying does not match everything written for golarion elves.

Damiel is a Golarion elf, and they do not all act the same or have one great big hive mind or default "you must act this way" behavior.


meatrace wrote:


I have a N elven mage. One of my favorite characters ever. It would be no fun to play her the way I do if it wasn't distinctly against stereotypes. All elves aren't X or Y, but if there aren't different cultural norms and personality trends then all races are JUST different stat bonuses. They should be different.

An one of my all time favs was a Barbaric elf from the Mierani forest, whose whole tribe was wild and barbaric and sneered at the so called civilized elves. He called them weak and flighty with no real backbone to content to live within their towers and gleaming cities and not off the land. In a word soft.

What I am saying is that race is not one culture, not one great default way you must act. He was a standard elf but his culture was not the same as that of a kyonin elf.

An elf is always an elf and his long lifespan does change his outlook, but they do not all act the same or think they same way.


Yet again.

I am not talking about the general outlook and culture.

I am talking about defining and core traits. And no matter how wild your elves are, they are still flighty and emotionally sensitive (or just plain soft) compared to really wild and savage races. Compare your wild elves with a clan of wild orcs.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Alch wrote:

Yet again.

I am not talking about the general outlook and culture. I am talking about defining and core traits. And no matter how wild your elves are, they are still flighty and emotionally sensitive (or just plain soft) compared to really wild and savage races. Compare your wild elves with a clan of wild orcs.

And I (not speaking for anyone else) am saying that the cultural traits and general outlook, as you put it, define their defining and core traits.


I disagree no where does it say your elf must be and is flighty and emotionally sensitive, nor does it say all are this way.

All it says about elves is this

"The long-lived elves are children of the natural world, similar in many superficial ways to fey creatures, yet different as well. Elves value their privacy and traditions, and while they are often slow to make friends, at both the personal and national levels, once an outsider is accepted as a comrade, such alliances can last for generations. Elves have a curious attachment to their surroundings, perhaps as a result of their incredibly long lifespans or some deeper, more mystical reason. Elves who dwell in a region for long find themselves physically adapting to match their surroundings, most noticeably taking on coloration reflecting the local environment. Those elves that spend their lives among the short-lived races, on the other hand, often develop a skewed perception of mortality and become morose, the result of watching wave after wave of companions age and die before their eyes. "

Nothing there backs up what your saying.

We see that they
* Elves value their privacy and traditions
*Often slow to make friends
* Elves who dwell in a region for long find themselves physically adapting to match their surroundings, most noticeably taking on coloration reflecting the local environment

And that is about it for non mechanical defining traits


Cydeth wrote:
Alch wrote:
And I (not speaking for anyone else) am saying that the cultural traits and general outlook, as you put it, define their defining and core traits.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Defining and core traits come first (by definition). Culture and outlook are added and may vary, depending on many factors.

Also (as I also said before) it isn't excluded that a member of a fantasy race acts completely differently. But even that "acting differently" validates these core traits because he is actively straying from the norm.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Alch wrote:
Cydeth wrote:
Alch wrote:
And I (not speaking for anyone else) am saying that the cultural traits and general outlook, as you put it, define their defining and core traits.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Defining and core traits come first (by definition). Culture and outlook are added and may vary, depending on many factors.

Also (as I also said before) it isn't excluded that a member of a fantasy race acts completely differently. But even that "acting differently" validates these core traits because he is actively straying from the norm.

And? Looking at Golarion, the Forlorn elves seem to emphasize my point of view to me. If a race can't adapt, much like humans seem to adapt, I don't see them lasting long, if at all. The only 'defining and core' trait I see to elves is that they live a long time, and tend to take the long view. That's it.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

I disagree no where does it say your elf must be and is flighty and emotionally sensitive, nor does it say all are this way.

All it says about elves is this

"The long-lived elves are children of the natural world, similar in many superficial ways to fey creatures, yet different as well. Elves value their privacy and traditions, and while they are often slow to make friends, at both the personal and national levels, once an outsider is accepted as a comrade, such alliances can last for generations. Elves have a curious attachment to their surroundings, perhaps as a result of their incredibly long lifespans or some deeper, more mystical reason. Elves who dwell in a region for long find themselves physically adapting to match their surroundings, most noticeably taking on coloration reflecting the local environment. Those elves that spend their lives among the short-lived races, on the other hand, often develop a skewed perception of mortality and become morose, the result of watching wave after wave of companions age and die before their eyes. "

Nothing there backs up what your saying.

We see that they
* Elves value their privacy and traditions
*Often slow to make friends
* Elves who dwell in a region for long find themselves physically adapting to match their surroundings, most noticeably taking on coloration reflecting the local environment

And that is about it for non mechanical defining traits

First sentence: "similar in many superficial ways to fey creatures".

And that's only the paragraph you gave me. Check out the campaign setting. Second sentence: "...beautiful, carefree (sometimes ruthless), graceful, and always stylish..."

Also these defining traits I described are so ubiquitous that they don't really need to be mentioned, they're like the pointed ears.


Wow, he's deranged. Kinda neat Jeykll and Hyde thing going on, though...

The Exchange

Cartigan wrote:
Jeremiziah wrote:
Cartigan wrote:

Apparently "Iconic" is Golarian Common for "Asshat"

Are there any non Shakespearean iconics? Ones without depth derived from tragedy or bombast?

Kind of makes you wonder what "Cartigan" means in Golarion Common, doesn't it?
"Person who says what you don't like"

I thought it meant something about flatulence. I guess I am not up on my common as much as I thought.


Alch wrote:

First sentence: "similar in many superficial ways to fey creatures".

And that's only the paragraph you gave me. Check out the campaign setting. Second sentence: "...beautiful, carefree (sometimes
ruthless), graceful, and always stylish..."

Also these defining traits I described are so ubiquitous that they don't really need to be mentioned, they're like the pointed ears.

That is covered by them changing skin tone and taking the long view of things, nothing else written says otherwise.

And Golarion covers more then one culture of elf. Since you have read the book it seem I am guessing your choosing to ignore it as it disproves your "One type of elf only" thing you seem to be pushing for. As that sentence is saying how humans view elves, not how elves always are

Your presenting a whole race as one single thing and the books just does not back that up and in fact contradict what your saying.


Cydeth wrote:
And? Looking at Golarion, the Forlorn elves seem to emphasize my point of view to me. If a race can't adapt, much like humans seem to adapt, I don't see them lasting long, if at all. The only 'defining and core' trait I see to elves is that they live a long time, and tend to take the long view. That's it.

Longevity is a physical trait. We were talking about personality traits. They are there and they are defining.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Alch wrote:
Cydeth wrote:
And? Looking at Golarion, the Forlorn elves seem to emphasize my point of view to me. If a race can't adapt, much like humans seem to adapt, I don't see them lasting long, if at all. The only 'defining and core' trait I see to elves is that they live a long time, and tend to take the long view. That's it.
Longevity is a physical trait. We were talking about personality traits. They are there and they are defining.

I'm just going to cry BS and be done with it. Nothing forces the various races to act a certain way, in my opinion. I'm emphasizing that because it's just as valid as your point of view, and I'm not going to try to rely on rules in this. The only creatures that seem to be forced to think a particular way are outsiders in my games, and even they can be converted. Essentially...there is not only one way to view them, or else we'd be stuck using Tolkien's elves, dwarves and halflings.


Alch wrote:

Longevity is a physical trait. We were talking about personality traits. They are there and they are defining.

Yes but they depend not on race but how and were one grows up. A forlorn elf often grow up without elven contact at all. A Mordarnt spire elf grows up in a vastly different environment then one who grew up in mwangi or Kyonin

Elven personalty's depend on environment just like every other race.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

That is covered by them changing skin tone and taking the long view of things, nothing else written says otherwise.

And Golarion covers more then one culture of elf. Since you have read the book it seem I am guessing your choosing to ignore it as it disproves your "One type of elf only" thing you seem to be pushing for. As that sentence is saying how humans view elves, not how elves always are

Your presenting a whole race as one single thing and the books just does not back that up and in fact contradict what your saying.

This is ridiculous. You don't even read what I'm writing. Let me reaffirm (...yet again...) that I'm not saying all elves are the same and "one type only". The only thing I'm saying is that the average elf is at his/her core more emotional and flighty and mercurial than other races (like for example humans).

And, no, it's not only humans that describe them like in my quote. Read on in the description. It veritably oozes with EMO and flightyness! Just a few examples:
the forlorn are "melancholy", "Elven style values aesthetics from the simple to the bewilderingly complex, favoring free-f lowing hair and unencumbered movement", "they do love to laugh, play pranks, try things on a whim, and upon occasion recklessly disregard dangers or consequences" (the following sentence just says they aren't thoughtless or uncaring, it doesn't invalidate the prior points).


cappadocius wrote:
I had no idea we'd already had an Oracle preview.

We did.

Aelryinth wrote:
Dunno, she could easily be a LG intolerant religious fanatic.

That's not the impression I got from her write-up (for one, despite being a divine spellcaster, she's not particularly religious). But your mileage may vary.

Quote:
I really don't like anti-heroes being iconics. Eesh.

It's not so much the antihero aspect that bugs me as the "jerks and psychos" aspect. Seltyiel's evil, and people like him better than Alain (probably because it's easier to feel sorry for Seltyiel; Alain, one just wants to slap).

Damiel is just bat-guano crazy. Toys in the attic. Lots of them. Squeaky ones.

James Sutter wrote:
For the record, some of the new iconics are genuinely good people. It just happens that we got a few jerks on the team this time around. :)

We've seen Alahazra. I get the feeling Feiya's going to be just a great gal, and Imrijka is going to be made of Good Is Not Nice. Balazar's true neutral, so...hard to say what he'll be like.


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when the sentance you use starts with "To humans elves are" then yes what you quoted was talking about how humans see elves.

By what is written the only default taints elves have are

* They superficially look fey like{Long ears, funky eyes , changes color to match environment"
* They live a long time which effects outlook and how they see things.

Other then that it says nothing. The campaign setting and Elves of Golarion does go into more detail but elves are not one uniform set. They do not all act the same way. What your describing is an common elf from kyonin maybe, but not all elves are raised the same way a noble elf and a common elf do not have the same up bringing. just like a human raised in a different culture does not act like one raised from another.

Culture define how they act more then anything, not what race they are. And elves in Golarion have more then one culture.

Anyhow we are derailing the thread here.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've never played two elves the same.
I've never seen two players play two elves the same.

The bestial monster might not be an aspect of his psyche but something that is universal to the mutagens taken by the alchemist.

You only win the no-prize if you explain how the story DOES work, not pointing out how it doesn't.

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