The Zen of Undermountain

Game Master EltonJ

Oooo never used Zorin OS, Ill have a look.

I'm gaming on Zorin OS daily, thanks to Proton and Proton GE.

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I think we are still gonna have some party issues.

Party having a Cleric of a Chaotic Evil Goddess and a Oracle of a Lawful Good God.
Yeah gonna be problems......
Two that are complete opposites.

Might need split tables to stop potential fights.......

Almost got all the crunch done, as I switched the second class a few times....

I think we are still gonna have some party issues.

Party having a Cleric of a Chaotic Evil Goddess and a Oracle of a Lawful Good God.
Yeah gonna be problems......
Two that are complete opposites.

Zartana Lhalar

I think we can do it as players, its not KILL ON SIGHT rules here, it "Im watching you"
No one is going to care about your aliment in a Dungeon

Ahaha

I really think we can make this work and it would make for a LOT of good game play

You! Lawfuly good killed them Goblins.
You! Nutrauly Evil killed them Goblins.

Nope, read through my old Copy of Book of Exalted Deeds
Good characters should NOT associate with evil characters like in the Paladin Code.
And if we are in goal alignment, NO evil sh*t at all.
And my character has a Legalistic curse.
Only way to not cause issues is having a Non-evil alignment (or you hide it darn well), or split tables.

Been also thinking about the Vow of Peace
Which will effect everyone.

my apologies, ill withdraw. didnt want to cause issues

have fun guys

Well I'm now filling in the divine role, Seth.
So martial is now open.

Just make a new character, one that is non-evil.

I'll have gander then

Holy Vindicator Dragonborn Paladin of Chronepsis

May need to take the advanced template just to be on par with, or close to, the rest

Atm used aasimar as the base race to make the character

Other than that, done

5 levels paladin
2 levels Holy Vindicator

Impact Scythe +1
Masterwork Longbow + arrows
+1 Mithril Full Plate

Amulate of natural Armor +1

Paladin Kit

RHMG Animator, not a problem to be good,
Ill drop Zeszrima Xe-Lhalar and switch back to
Aannraa Sal Da Qill My NG aasimar Monk,

there is a 3.5 race named Dragon-Born from the book Races of the Dragon
They are become children of a LG dragon god.....

there is also the Draconic template and the Half-dragon template as well

I converted the 4e/5e Dragonborn to Pathfinder.

I'd like to see those of I may :)

Check for a PM....

Draconic aasimar could be quite interesting

Just want to see the conversion from EJ before I make final choice

Well. 00:25 here. Off to bed

I'd like to see those of I may :)

fortunately, I did it for my Phaeselis setting. Which can be accessed here.

Nicely done, looks like a entry from the "Races of" series of books.

Nicely done, looks like a entry from the "Races of" series of books.

Thank you, very much, RHMG.

Nope, read through my old Copy of Book of Exalted Deeds

Good characters should NOT associate with evil characters like in the Paladin Code.
And if we are in goal alignment, NO evil sh*t at all.
And my character has a Legalistic curse.
Only way to not cause issues is having a Non-evil alignment (or you hide it darn well), or split tables.

Been also thinking about the Vow of Peace
Which will effect everyone.

I have had a good think my Monk has a view of truth so if he catches any of you lying he will just tell the truth. I don't think he will play well if we are being this strict on rules interpretation.

So I think Helina The_Beast as my main PC, would be a much better fit.
She is CG and a good fit for what looks to be the Party.

NOTE: IF picked seeing how I was so rude over Advanced magic
{still do not like it but GMs game GMs rules hahaha}
Also the 9th has past to will stop making any more PCs hahaha

I'll be taking you up on your PF1e conversion of Dragonborn :)

I switched out a bit of my gear due to the racial

RHMG Animator wrote:

Nope, read through my old Copy of Book of Exalted Deeds

Good characters should NOT associate with evil characters like in the Paladin Code.
And if we are in goal alignment, NO evil sh*t at all.
And my character has a Legalistic curse.
Only way to not cause issues is having a Non-evil alignment (or you hide it darn well), or split tables.

Been also thinking about the Vow of Peace
Which will effect everyone.

I have had a good think my Monk has a view of truth so if he catches any of you lying he will just tell the truth. I don't think he will play well if we are being this strict on rules interpretation.

So I think Helina The_Beast as my main PC, would be a much better fit.
She is CG and a good fit for what looks to be the Party.

NOTE: IF picked seeing how I was so rude over Advanced magic
{still do not like it but GMs game GMs rules hahaha}
Also the 9th has past to will stop making any more PCs hahaha

There were a few exemptions for being with the evil characters like; if I had my character redeeming them, but I figured most would not like another character using the rules to force a change on their character after failing a number of rolls.

That and what I wiped up, it would be very hard to lie to them.
and glancing over the Advance d20 magic rules.
Yeah they apply and don't apply to Oracle.
I'm also trying to finish up the character when I get a moment to work on it.
I'd rather just use the regular system instead of needing to learn a new one at this point.

That and what I wiped up, it would be very hard to lie to them.
and glancing over the Advance d20 magic rules.
Yeah they apply and don't apply to Oracle.
I'm also trying to finish up the character when I get a moment to work on it.
I'd rather just use the regular system instead of needing to learn a new one at this point.

How can I adjust things if it's not given a proper test?

reading it,

I can see that it is trying to add flexibility and some realism.
But I can already see flaws, some of which they missed.

Drain and fort saves, well Divine casters get good Fort saves, arcane casters don't,
they only cover that divine casters have access to all spells, while arcane casters have to learn them.
Which is now false due to Oracle and Paladin being CHA casters
Also recall that when Paizo updated monsters from 3.X to PF, they bumped up their CON score which effects fort saves.

More rolls equals a slower game, it causes more ROLLplay then ROLEplay in a few ways though the opposite in one.
This system adds rolls to a caster's turn slowing stuff down and making casters even less appealing then they already are.
Though the "Runaway HP" problem is the worst offender as levels rise compared to this, but it does make it worse.
I've come up with a few ways to fix that HP problem.
If you want drain effects for casting, put that cost with the spell like in BoED's sanctified spells. As the sanctified spells had special costs listed for each one, no extra rolls then what player regularly use.

There is an idea I had before you mentioned this system that is kinda a hybrid between the regular d20 system and this one. (No extra rolls or saves at all) and was tied to a cascading fix of one of the methods for fixing the Runaway HP problem. this is part of the fix that fits
It was simple idea, refer to the regular system, but you could slot any spell into any level of slot (sans a non-zero into zero), provided you had access to that level of spell. So no greater invisibility as a level 4 Sorcerer, when the earliest is level 8 (as the higher level spells can be a real headache if access to then if way earlier then expected)
Putting a higher level spell into a lower slot would not only lower the DC, but cut the caster level effects of the spell down by 3 levels / level difference, putting a lower level spell into a higher slot would raise the DC, and heighten the caster level 2 levels per level of difference allowing caps to be raised as well. If a spell capped at 6d6 damage, putting it into a higher level 1 higher upgrades the caps to 8d6.

I have plaied other home systems that just
had Con points,
A core caster gets Con Bonus x Level
Secondary casters get Con Bonus x Level/2
This is a pool of ponts to power spells.
Spell level = Cost,
What is cool is that you can use a metamagic feat BUT its x2 the cost each one used, So casting Lingering spell Mage Armor cost 1x2 Pool points, but use another meta magic feat as well and its x2 again so 4 points.
I like this ssystem as it made meta magic feats worth it.

OR just use the

psionics-unleashed
And have Power points power Spells like event,

In other systems you just have
Conx5 as caster points

We could all easily circumvent any need for any casters.

We buy potions and or all take a template that gives fast healing or Regen, no divine healers needed effectively skipping the need for magic or healing.

So for spells in a game, the saying "Less is More" is the better path.
If you really want me to use it, I will break it, hard.

The advance d20 magic system you want to try is a kin to a regression of fixes and optimizations Paizo made to other areas within the PF system.
If you want a smoother magic system, use that was provided, but tweak it while not opening the darn flood gates to options.
Never open the flood gates of spell options, it'll backfire hard.

Starting to wish I had written down all my D&D/PF1e fixes and patches into a word document. If fixes a number of long standing problems, but leaves as much of the original systems in as they are.

Luckily my character only has 3 spells. All the same. Just to auto confirm crits against evil creatures

The others are LoH and Channel which aren't spells

We could all easily circumvent any need for any casters.

If you all do that, then that will frustrate the point of the campaign.

Looks at those that had early interest and left (all caster characters).....

I don't think folks like that magic system seeing the clear results and the drop in the usual takers for your games...
Notices the avoidance of classes with spells and or avoiding spells for those that are active...

You can have "Markofbane" be the guinea pig with their wizard character.
Players do not want the extra work this system requires a player to handle.

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If your looking to make this a default system for magic since you bought the 3.X version rights, people will reject this magic system and either use the version found in the original DnD books, or go with another more streamlined method.

Looks at those that had early interest and left (all caster characters).....

I don't think folks like that magic system seeing the clear results and the drop in the usual takers for your games...
Notices the avoidance of classes with spells and or avoiding spells for those that are active...

You can have "Markofbane" be the guinea pig with their wizard character.
Player's don't want the extra work this system causes.

It's easy. Just do addition. Total up your bonuses and roll a die. Very easy. IT takes only 30 pages to explain how it works, RHMG. Easy, simple math. Of course, the boards are equipped to handle the addition for you. On the table, just need a calculator.

I'm not asking you to do calculus. Just addition.

Sorry, but glancing over it. it is a mess.

Break it down into 3 to 7 easy to read paragraphs.
If you can't then it is more then just simple addition.

Go all, I know some PCs need to be finished but
Can I ask the PM for those of use with finished PC
what would you like us to do next?

Sorry, but glancing over it. it is a mess.

Break it down into 3 to 7 easy to read paragraphs.
If you can't then it is more then just simple addition.

fine. I think you're missing the glowing, rune encrusted monolith for the forest. But here it is incase you missed it. In two paragraphs. On page 4.

Lisa and Eric, this is OGC.

DYNAMIC SPELLCASTING
Casting any spell is a standard action that requires no special words or gestures and no other ingredients. A character that knows a spell may cast it as often as he or she desires, with no preparation time or additional study required. Spellcasting is draining, however, and most people will get worn out after a prolonged session of working magic.

In game terms, casting a spell requires a Fortitude Save against the spell’s Drain. The result of the Save determines the amount of Drain suffered by the caster. If the Fortitude Save is failed by 10 or more, a Control check will also be required to determine if the spellcaster can maintain control over the flow of energy coursing through him or her.

There you go. As promised Paizo, it's OGC.

So we are only limited to the effects of drain and saving throws for spells.....
So If I made a level 1 Human Sorcerer with a CON of 30 (CON MOD of 10), gave them Great Fort (+2, totaling +12 Fort there) along with Improved Great Fort (able to re-roll fort save) and that is without adding that Fort bonus for casting I noticed,
I could cast spells of level 4 or even higher, Like Polar Ray, if I want to gamble with the drain save, wow that is exploitable and has no restraints.

So we are only limited to the effects of drain and saving throws for spells.....

So If I made a level 1 Human Sorcerer with a CON of 30 (CON MOD of 10), gave them Great Fort (+2, totaling +12 Fort there) along with Improved Great Fort (able to re-roll fort save) and that is without adding that Fort bonus for casting I noticed,
I could cast spells of level 4 or even higher, Like Polar Ray, if I want to gamble with the drain save, wow that is exploitable and has no restraints.

Under this system, all spells are treated as psionic powers. So, yes, you can make a Sorcerer with godlike constitution. Well, theoretically. Just basically, any spell can be cast as a standard action, the eschew materials, still spell, and silent spell feats are already factored in for you.

Never touched the psionic system, and I recall one GM I had who mentioned a number of broken things he did using the psionic system.

Yeah, as a GM and player, I prefer the restraints and resource management aspect of the original system.

Never touched the psionic system, and I recall one GM I had who mentioned a number of broken things he did using the psionic system.

Yeah, as a GM and player, I prefer the restraints and resource management aspect of the original system.

This does have resource management. *sigh*

When you suffer drain, it is suffered as non-lethal damage. Although I could use spell-points with this system. The non-lethal damage gets the point across.

after talking with the GM going to go with my
Beast-Blooded {Bear} LG Aasimar Unchained Monk

hi GM EltonJ, are you still recruiting for this game? if yes, do you have a list of applicants, or any particular roles you're looking more for?

Hey Eltonj. Just checking in. This is markofbane, and this is the profile I'm using to build my wizard submission for this game. I still have work to do on it, but I wanted to make sure you knew I didn't ghost you.

I'm taking a closer look at your character.

hi GM EltonJ, are you still recruiting for this game? if yes, do you have a list of applicants, or any particular roles you're looking more for?

The group can use a cleric.

hi GM EltonJ, are you still recruiting for this game? if yes, do you have a list of applicants, or any particular roles you're looking more for?

If you make a caster character, you gonna have to use that alternate magic system.

Given the GM really pushing for psionic verson of magic, I'm thinking of going back to my first character, or make a new one that has fast healing and or Regen.

Lapyd wrote:

hi GM EltonJ, are you still recruiting for this game? if yes, do you have a list of applicants, or any particular roles you're looking more for?

The group can use a cleric.

I like clerics and similar classes, but I'm not familiar with Advanced d20 Magic (not sure exactly where to look for these rules?) so I think I'd be a bit confused with the spells and build! Any links I could use, or maybe any chance of building something nonmagical, maybe?

EltonJ wrote:

Lapyd wrote:

hi GM EltonJ, are you still recruiting for this game? if yes, do you have a list of applicants, or any particular roles you're looking more for?

The group can use a cleric.

I like clerics and similar classes, but I'm not familiar with Advanced d20 Magic (not sure exactly where to look for these rules?) so I think I'd be a bit confused with the spells and build! Any links I could use, or maybe any chance of building something nonmagical, maybe?

I put the rules up on the internet archive.

Lapyd wrote:

hi GM EltonJ, are you still recruiting for this game? if yes, do you have a list of applicants, or any particular roles you're looking more for?

If you make a caster character, you gonna have to use that alternate magic system.

Given the GM really pushing for psionic verson of magic, I'm thinking of going back to my first character, or make a new one that has fast healing and or Regen.

The idea is to PLAYTEST the system. That's why I chose a mega-dungeon as the setting.

Lapyd wrote:

EltonJ wrote:

Lapyd wrote:

hi GM EltonJ, are you still recruiting for this game? if yes, do you have a list of applicants, or any particular roles you're looking more for?

The group can use a cleric.

I like clerics and similar classes, but I'm not familiar with Advanced d20 Magic (not sure exactly where to look for these rules?) so I think I'd be a bit confused with the spells and build! Any links I could use, or maybe any chance of building something nonmagical, maybe?

I put the rules up on the internet archive.

Found it there! Interesting stuff, I'm going over it. For the races, I see people trying / suggesting some crazy stuff - should I try to go crazy here too in a fun proposal, or should I stick to the basics?

I put the rules up on the internet archive.

I suggest you prepare two characters: one crazy, one basic.

Under this System, Clerics receive knowledge of all their spells from their deity. (I mean ALL of them). They take a round to cast their spells on other people (they are praying for the energy for the spell).

Domain spells cost you half drain to cast, though. One thing to realize, Feat Management is important to clerics with this system. Unlike wizards, who get five class feats, Clerics get channel energy.

You have to choose carefully about what feats you take. If you notice, one of the applicants has chosen Great Fortitude for his first feat. For a cleric (as well as that wizard) you have to think about your role in the party.

I plan to play Undermountain as an ecosystem, a living system. (some of the best advice to running mega-dungeons and approaching certain classes come from Tenkar and Greyhawk Grognard). So, yes, there is resource management to consider. The System allows you to cast any spell you know, but you also have to manage your tiredness. Should you rest or press on?

I could have chosen something easier like a lite dungeon to test the system, but Undermountain's mega-dungeon is the best possible choice.

So - should I read the cleric table on the book as an "addition" on top of the usual Cleric pathfinder table? Because I don't see channel, just turn or rebuke undead (i.e. channel to damage, but not to heal).

I'm considering choosing building the cleric as usual up to level 8 in Pathfinder, with a single archetype, but just ignore all actual spellcasting from PF and replace it with the Ad20M book version, including slow casting and the domain half-drain thing. By the way, should I follow the FR or the PF domains/deities/etc.?

So - should I read the cleric table on the book as an "addition" on top of the usual Cleric pathfinder table? Because I don't see channel, just turn or rebuke undead (i.e. channel to damage, but not to heal).

Yes.

I'm considering choosing building the cleric as usual up to level 8 in Pathfinder, with a single archetype, but just ignore all actual spellcasting from PF and replace it with the Ad20M book version, including slow casting and the domain half-drain thing. By the way, should I follow the FR or the PF domains/deities/etc.?

The FR deities. There are equivalents between PF deities and FR deities, but they are little.

but just ignore all actual spellcasting from PF and replace it with the Ad20M book version, including slow casting and the domain half-drain thing.

That's what I'm asking you to do.

K. WOW.

So the stomping feet, pouty toddler, anti-playtest, insurrection thing is over?
Everyone is okay with a little sociogamepathic experimenting?
We can all go back to being excited about character building?





This is ... happening?





Because if it is still happening, it would still be cool for me if we could do 3rd party psionics along side dynamic magic. Would love that actually.

Lapyd wrote:

So - should I read the cleric table on the book as an "addition" on top of the usual Cleric pathfinder table? Because I don't see channel, just turn or rebuke undead (i.e. channel to damage, but not to heal).

Yes.

Quote:

I'm considering choosing building the cleric as usual up to level 8 in Pathfinder, with a single archetype, but just ignore all actual spellcasting from PF and replace it with the Ad20M book version, including slow casting and the domain half-drain thing. By the way, should I follow the FR or the PF domains/deities/etc.?

The FR deities. There are equivalents between PF deities and FR deities, but they are little.

Quote:

but just ignore all actual spellcasting from PF and replace it with the Ad20M book version, including slow casting and the domain half-drain thing.

That's what I'm asking you to do.

For the race, if I use Aasimar, should I use the PF or FR-adapted version?

Also, do clerics still cast off WIS and have their channels quantity off CHA?