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I see what you mean. Maybe it's better to skip it after all.
Nope. You left my party early so now we're definitely plowing through all 9 rooms. [GM sulks]
Who am I kidding? It's too painful. 5 rooms, tops.
LOL! Keep in mind that it was 8x8x8 rooms that 'randomly' moved around the cube so mapping was useless until you figured out the codes. PBP would've taken decades to get through it, if ever. Basically, if you figured out the code it was possible to get through in just 8-10 rooms. Ignoring the codes made it pretty much random to which room you went to next. And not recording meant that you might not even know that you were in a room that you'd already been through, unless you left markings or dead bodies.
I'm fine either way. 9 rooms doesn't sound too bad, but if it was written poorly.... ?? Remember that I'm not reading it 'cause I don't want to spoil it! I've never played through this one.
But, is there anything in the dungeon that we could have taken that might be useful in the future? Treasures or clues or anything else? Collar of natural armor +1 for Rufus? LOL!
What is after the dungeon crawl? No spoilers!
You'll find out if you survive the crawl, which is assumed but not guaranteed.
Although the Prison was intended to be a difficult test, so...
It was fun at first, but after a few hours it got boring.
I would have been all over those dang numbers! Good job not spoon-feeding them to your players, btw...the hardest thing sometimes as a GM is to let players sail past something you put work into, but as a player I always prefer to know my GM will let me overlook stuff and fail horribly.
Some of my favorite games are dungeon crawls. I've played through the boardgames Gloomhaven and Frosthaven, and loved them. There's a lot of fiddly strategy involved, though, not just chucking 20-siders. For similar reasons, I loved the video game Darkest Dungeon and its sequel. I really liked the Owlcat Pathfinder games, and spent far too much time probing every corner in every optional dungeon.
But again, I'll go along with group regarding this particular dungeon. Maybe start it and see how it goes?
Darkest Dungeon is available on Steam.... I may have to kill a couple hundred hours!
Darkest Dungeon is available on Steam.... I may have to kill a couple hundred hours!
It's terribly fun, if you don't mind dying horribly because you don't know wtf is going on every once in a while. The atmosphere and artistic vision is supurb.
On the off chance you haven't tried it, I'll add that Hades (and its sequel) is ridiculously good. Failing and trying again isn't just a game mechanic, it's a theme. Again, great art, and my favorite video game soundtrack.
I really like Well Engineered Dungeon Crawls. Like Caverns of Thracia, White Plume Mountain, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
Even a short dungeon crawl can be fun
Darkest Dungeon is available on Steam.... I may have to kill a couple hundred hours!
I bought it based on the recommendation here. $4!
Oh, great, now GMT is going to TPK us with the Collector, or worse, the Shambler. :)
Well, he did say "Although the Prison was intended to be a difficult test, so..."
Sic'em Rufus!
I have suggestions for how our players can be appropriately careful--that is, paranoid--in this dungeon without slowing the game to a crawl.
First off, we all relinquish control of our Perception checks to GMT so we aren't waiting on each player. Yes, I know, I love throwing dice too.
Second, we give GMT a marching order and default search technique so we don't have to describe the same actions over and over.
Thirdly, we give GMT a course of action and let him tell us when and if it's interrupted.
So, something like this:
When searching a room, the marching order is Vormog, Posh, and Rufus in the first rank, Treesa and Rendylyn in the second, and Dargon and
Rayse in the third. Before advancing, Vormog casts Guidance on himself, Treesa casts Guidance on Rufus, and Rendylyn casts Guidance on Posh. Then everyone examines the floor in front of them, the wall(s) and any door(s) next to it, and the ceiling above it. Then we all move forward a little ways and repeat. We circle around each room, spiraling in toward the center.
This would be our default, and with each room we'd say something like, "We do our regular search, avoiding the lava spots, and end at the giant lever in the middle." Assuming a Perception check takes a round, we'd cover a 5'x5' of floor every 12 seconds, so this 30'x30' room would take about 8 minutes, and we'd get our three best perception checks (boosted by guidance) before we enter any square, plus four other checks on every square. GMT could have a cut and paste block with all our perception rolls in, and either roll for just the important squares, or for the important squares plus some empty ones here and there to keep us honest, or for every square if he really loves rollin' them dice.
I'm not insisting on any of this, just trying to put together something workable. Suggest any improvements you can think of. Also, let me know if I'm squashing anybody's fun by trying to do too much.
A bit procedural, but it would certainly speed things up.
Posh no likely that business about being in the front row!
It’s a big time saver having the GM roll Perception and Initiative though!
My home group typically runs with a "strict righthand search" rule, so the GM can reveal the map out to the next "interesting" thing on a righthand search.
Sounds good except I agree with Posh. Dargon is our rogue isn't he? High perception and search for traps?
Hadn't thought of Rufus searching, but his perception is better than Treesa's and he gets scent.
Sure, switch Posh and Dargon. But as devil worshippers, we should take the left-hand path.
Sure, switch Posh and Dargon. But as devil worshippers, we should take the left-hand path.
I'm down with that!
hahaha Left Hand Path it is.
If everyone's OK with it, here's a dice-tossing block GMT can cut and paste for our searches:
[Dice=Dargon’s perception check on area in front of him, with Guidance and trapfinding]d20+7[/dice]
[Dice=Vormog’s perception check on area in front of him, with Guidance]d20+9[/dice]
[Dice=Rufus’s perception check on area in front of him, with Guidance and scent]d20+9[/dice]
[Dice=Rendylyn’s perception check on area]d20+6[/dice]
[Dice=Treesa’s perception check on area]d20+4[/dice]
[Dice=Posh’s perception check on area]d20+6[/dice]
[Dice=Rayce’s perception check on area]d20+1[/dice]
Looks good to me. Will need to update every level up since we will probably all increase perception....
Not bad numbers!
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Yeah, I hate this. This is the worst kind of dungeon crawl where now I engage in masturbating dicebot. I think I'm going to completely change this dungeon. Get ready for homebrew shenanigans.
Sorry for my part in it, GMT. Then again, the RPG community is full of avid masturbating dicebots...how was I to know you weren't interested?
I was far too subtle with my "procedural" comment.
Even a short dungeon crawl can be fun
A friend of mine ran "The World's Largest Dungeon" some years back. Player drama (not me, I swear!) killed the group before we were halfway done, but up to that point we had a blast. There were some genuinely hilarious encounters, like when we killed a gelatinous cube for the treasure chest floating inside it, only to get ambushed by what turned out to be a mimic catching a ride.
If everyone's OK with it, here's a dice-tossing block GMT can cut and paste for our searches:
[Dice=Dargon’s perception check on area in front of him, with Guidance and and trapfinding]d20+7
Should be +8
1d20+6 perception +1 trapfinding (1/2 point per level rounded down) +1 guidance
I hope you guys like puzzles.
Hmm.... OK.
Years ago, when Ronnie James Dio was asked, in an interview at his home, What's with all the devils and death? Dio took a detached view and replied, "I'm exploring the concept of evil in my music."
It was simply that, and we're going to try to do that here. This Nine Lessons, as written, is boring. There are really only a couple places where you get to explore evil, and the rest is frankly garbage.
What we're going to do is not only test your characters, but also you, the player - the person. Some of it will feel weird, some of it might possibly feel vindictive, and at times you may be pitted against each other. You might feel humiliated or like I'm trying to bait you into behaving or acting a certain way. It's not a psychological experiment but it may begin to feel like one. Asmodeus is looking for champions. But more than that, this whole AP should test you as people behind the keyboard. Unless you're a psycopath, this should gnaw at you.
I can dial this down and I can dial this up. If it's pissing you off, send me a PM, and I'll bring it down a level. If you want more, put it into Discussion and we can talk about it. My first attempt at this was the dinner scene, and my impression was that didn't really work for any of you, but maybe it was unexpected, or as someone said, "pointless." I'm going to purposefully create tension. I hope you don't walk away from it and if that's how you feel then let's find a middle ground.
Remember you're still a team and if it seems like I'm dividing you it's only for a moment. We have a contract and I will do my best to honor it.
I'm game. I think we all wanted to kill the other team but didn't want to get in trouble with Tiadora or Thorn.
Shall Posh stow the CLW wand, as a possible user thereof?
I'm game. I think we all wanted to kill the other team but didn't want to get in trouble with Tiadora or Thorn.
That would have saved you a lot of trouble later on.
They'll be worth more XP if we let them level up a few times before we kill them. Also, Posh was vocal about not being clear on the ramifications of the oath regarding the other team.
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Vormog's opinion is similar to mine. If they are not in the way, they're not worth the time. I felt they were more testing whether we'd be starting a fight in the mansion. I imagine that Tiadora and Thorn wouldn't care either way, but actually fighting would feel cartoonish to me.
As for the dungeon, unless there's PvP, I'm ok with it.
Rendylyn sees the other group as both allies and competition. She's not going to attack them when she sees ways to exploit them, especially since Cardinal Thorn would probably be annoyed at any minion who put his plans at risk. She was enjoying dinner with veiled insults and would have served up seven courses.
The psychologically complicated dungeon sounds interesting. A big part of the fun of playing Rendylyn is assuming a point of view that's so different from mine. You don't have to be a psychopath to portray a psychopath.
... unless there's PvP, I'm ok with it.
Again, Rendylyn's not going to attack a party member, but she thinks of exploiting contracts as a divine mandate. This dungeon sounds like a good opportunity for us players to establish our boundries with interparty conflict. If I ever cross a line for you or anyone, please don't hesitate to let me know here or in DMs. I know we're in murky territory and will be fine with backing off.
I think the contract would stop any direct PVP. But I'm not sure about magical effects like a confusion spell.
If Posh ever determines they aren't living up to Loyalties 1 and 2, then it's open season them!
On that note I figure loyalty #1 is the one that really matters. If they not on team Asmodeus then they're toast.
Shall Posh stow the CLW wand, as a possible user thereof?
You totally should!
So this could probably just go unsaid, but just to be, like, session zero clear about it, Rendylyn is a kid. My boundry is she won't be involved in anything sexual.
Nobody's been inappropriate, I'm just letting folks know.
Shall Posh stow the CLW wand, as a possible user thereof?You totally should!
Action complete.
So this could probably just go unsaid, but just to be, like, session zero clear about it, Rendylyn is a kid. My boundry is she won't be involved in anything sexual.
Nobody's been inappropriate, I'm just letting folks know.
I hear you! Despite Posh having questionable taste in Gnomish literature, you will note that he did not take on one of the proffered bed companions.
Judgment will be delivered tomorrow.
We have all been judged.... and found to be FUN!
I'll give Dargon the day before I zap him.
Right now it's a very close call for the boon. Several good posts on this one.
Working on a new map in Roll20. I'd appreciate help with it. I have no patience for it and seem to have a lot of trouble. I think it just needs to have the grid resized to match the map lines. I'll wait to begin the combat until we get it sorted.
For the new players, here's the link: Roll 20
I played with the grid and it's good enough.
Vormog and Rayse, we've been using Discussion to have OOC discussions about combat tactics from time to time.
In initiative orders like the one we're in now, there's no downside to people who plan to roll to hit delaying their actions until after the characters who are likely to buff them or debuff the enemy--Posh and Treesa--have taken their actions.
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I got the grid aligned a bit better.