
Liliyashanina |

As Saphirre says this. both Lyotrs and Irabeths eyes shine with bright light, as they look at her, then at the hellknight seargent Dornan, then at her again.
Eh, she is evil but less then our hellknight ally
Irabeth says
Not by much The inquisitor adds
Dinner? After our unstoppable victory preordained by proper tactics and combat pragmastism? The hellknight seargent asks Saphirre, betraying an actual functioning sense of humor.
Oh, she is pretty tought and capable, I think you two will be a great pair! Cydric, the Galtese gunslinger interjects
Your attempts of reverse psychology are noted and futile. The hellknight quips back.

Liliyashanina |

Preliminary plan is that we present a unified force, which the demons are obligated, almost, to attack while a small group of valiant heroes infiltrate through and stop whatever the f@~& they are planning. Yes The inquisitor announces
I did make an augury revealing that a rod of cancellation is needed for the ritual stoppage, and I dont have one. Also, rumblings about the wardstones being our prison which needed to be broken, but thats well, semiheretical at the best. He continues
I wonder if someone found a rod of cancellation while crushing a cultist delivery, such a deed would clearly mean that this someone should be in overall charge yes? THe galtese gunslinger interjects with a wink-wink-nudge-nudge towards the part

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

"We 'acquired' the Rod of Cancellation the fiends were planning to use in the ceremony. That makes its presence at the Grey Garrison both necessary and problematic; the fiends will stop at nothing to get 'The Item' back. However we appear to need it to 'cancel' the ceremony intended to corrupt the Wardstones."

Sapphire Aurora |

The Andriod has not moved an inch, or blinked during all of this talk, Now she does, like some kind of slick mechanical doll. What is most odd is the fact her voice comes from where her mouth is but it does not move.
"So we have agreed on a plan, a diversion, then we who sneek get close and open the way for a full attack. Or am I wrong?"
Her eyes glow with a dull red as she says this.

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

The Andriod has not moved an inch, or blinked during all of this talk, Now she does, like some kind of slick mechanical doll. What is most odd is the fact her voice comes from where her mouth is but it does not move.
"So we have agreed on a plan, a diversion, then we who sneek get close and open the way for a full attack. Or am I wrong?"
Her eyes glow with a dull red as she says this.
"Yes that's the plan. Now we're just ironing out some of the details to better prepare. Don't worry the time to kill will be upon us soon."

Aurical |

"Again, I must stress I am not a killer but a healer." Aurical proudly points out with his tail swishing behind him in either excitement or agitation, "While Sapphire is a very useful member of our team, she is no healer. Just as I am no killer. In fact, I specialize in hurting evil. I can do little harm against any good beings. As our group sneaks inside, we would be well served if the two of us scout ahead. Sneaking is the skill we share, and I can use any chance of surprise to aid our fighters."

Sahala Love |

Right, Aurical. Someone has to heal those who will kill. And I will mock those who will try to kill those who kill from our side, and this in itself helps. Everyone has their own specialties. It is not entirely clear where Sahala has already managed to get a glass of wine, but now she is lazily sipping it, glancing at the team. Well, are we ready?

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

Right, Aurical. Someone has to heal those who will kill. And I will mock those who will try to kill those who kill from our side, and this in itself helps. Everyone has their own specialties. It is not entirely clear where Sahala has already managed to get a glass of wine, but now she is lazily sipping it, glancing at the team. Well, are we ready?
"Ready."

Sapphire Aurora |

Smiles and heads out

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

Smiles and heads out
Although no sound is heard everyone can see Constantine's lips moving as he recites his prayers to Iomedae.

Sapphire Aurora |

Spinning her blade and Morningstar, Sapphire sneaks to in, looking for and to get past Guards.
Perseption 1d20 + 14 + 1d6 ⇒ (2) + 14 + (3) = 19
Stealth 1d20 + 13 + 1d6 ⇒ (6) + 13 + (5) = 24

Liliyashanina |

The distraction
Putting their heads together, Askold the Bloodrager and Cydric the swashbuckler pool their knowledge and come up with what could well be the ultimate insulting rant ever delivered. Making creative use of low level spells, ventriloquism, alter voice and a surprisingly indepth knowledge, or perhaps anti-knowledge, of Baphometan history, the following insult is both spoken and projected via silent images, a gnome in Cydrics employ being quite creative in making the images particularly insulting.
Oi there Bafflemeth,
some Lord of the Abyss you are,
you who cant even slay
a celestial hedgehog
with thy own naked arse!
Asmodeus shits and your army eats
Nocticula pisses and you try to take
for the first time in millenia
a bath but fail
as is evidenced by the pungent stench
of the penis transplant from Asmodeus
which you erraneously think is yours
You see, there is a reason why hell calls you
the most horned one
It is surprising how quicky the cultists, mostly Baphometans and a few "totally not giggling" Deskarites. Only to run into a series of traps, running ambushes and hellknights, who are quite amused by the unusually pro asmodean nature of the insults, and few things are scarier then smiling hellknights.
Accompanied by Sevanna, you wait until the demonic force passes, and sneak unto the outskirts of the grey garrison.
You spot 3 Deksarite cultists wearing their trademark scythes and actually well maintained looking green armor.
In their midst, 2 corpulent things
These are Vermleck demons!
They can burrow, take over dead bodies and use inflict light wounds mass!
are holding a mock trial of one Vermleck who
Looks exactly like prelate Hulrun
stands accused of being a generalized prick, barbecuing innocents without a loicense, throwing away nicely barbecued innocent eats, and worshipping asmodeus without even knowing this.
The Deskarites seem to be highly amused at the proclamation and are paying little attention to the door they are supposed to guard.
But your honor, Oi cant even write Asmodeus without making 5 spelling mistakes so how can I worship him by accident The accused fat thing blathers
Lies! We have established that you cant even count to 5! The accusing fat thing intones to the guffaws of the cultists
you can infiltrate towards the red line if you are stealthy, and towards the yellow line if you are not.
The past days have been pretty weird...
The thiefling Alchemist called "Ortiribu" has taken you as his personal prisoner, and has apparently received repeated sendings with offers of payment for you. Your hands have been mittened, and you have been chained to a wall in the room he took as his quarter, but he has seemingly only been interested in selling you, not in using you, and actually blew up a cultist that wished to injure you stating "YOU DONT F*!~ING TOUCH MY PAYCHECK CUKA BLYAD!", even ordering another cultist to clean up the mess his bomb made. You still have some cultist parts staining your clothes though.
Profane gift or Profane wishcraft... Minagho can offer more, but she is more intelligent and harder to betray, Jerribeth is a prick but kind of easy to work with, just feed her torture victims. Am I rather a smaller cog in a fairly well run machine or a bigger cog in a badly run? Decisions Decisions Your captor walks up and down in his room
Then the proclamation happens
Ah, the last hurrah of Kenabres. I have always been more partial to Haagenti myself, bit of a pain that the deal to steal this mythic greater Paladin juice from the Xoveronite idiots fell through!
You are aware that he talks with himself a lot.
Well, see you soon! My lectures are starting!
He leaves through the sole door in the room. For now, you can do mostly nothing.

Adigale Clemens |

While Adigale might never be called a true and utter idiot, her mouth behaves like one near constantly. An average young(ish) woman chained to a wall helplessly, and being considered to be sold into slavery, would SHUT IT once in a while, but Adigale is Adigale.
The fact her capture talks to himself allows her to shut just shouting profanities and instead interjects asinine comments.
For example:
'Jerribeth is a prick ... Am I rather a smaller--' she added "Prick?" she manages to smile, despite the pain in her arms from being in this position way too long "You are, I mean physiology wise. I see you when you stand, all... engorged in your pants, for working with your beakers, and yes, VERY small." her claws pinch together to show how small, but the mittens spoil the effect.
When he leaves with a "My lectures are starting!" she manages to snark up a "Great. That means more cultists will die from boredom!" she winces a little at the crappiness of that last one, but she is tired, sore, and covered in cultist bits, so she feels maybe she could be given some slack from her self judgment. But even to herself, she is an ass.

Liliyashanina |

The thiefling, or perhaps cambion, chuckles
You see, prickwise, a case could be made that a smaller one, in an abyssal context, is desireable, given that it may make you less susceptible to the temptations of various fiends. I did however perform some research, and there was no correlation between captured crusader prick-size and how quickly a Succubus would drain them. Now, there was a correlation between physically repulsive and how quickly they get drained, as the average Succubus simply sought to end things as quickly as feasible, but the pricksize... He pauses
The average crusader is drained in about 30 seconds, meaning he or she doesnt even last through the foreplay. Which perhaps explains the statistical irrellevance of prick sizes, but I digress.
He smirks and turns to leave
You sense you could possibly bullshit him into some "experiments" that would cost some additional cultist manpower.
if this gets uncomfortable, please immidiatly PM me

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

Knowledge (Nobility): 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (13) + 4 = 17
@GM: With a Stealth of -3 (Armor check penalty), Constantine will go for the yellow line.

Adigale Clemens |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Hmmm, convincing others of things, especially bluffing, isn't her norm so...
Adigale yawns wider than a worm swallowing the world "Oh, good gods, you're done, Finally, I never knew anyone could make talking about sex so utterly BORING!" maybe if he gets angry enough he would get close so she could kick him somewhere nice and painful.

Sapphire Aurora |

Kn Planes DC18: 1d20 + 1d6 + 8 ⇒ (16) + (6) + 8 = 30
Kn nobility or local DC12: 1d20 + 1d6 + 8 ⇒ (1) + (5) + 8 = 14

Aurical |

Relegated to not following Sapphire by the skirts, as it were, Aurical instead makes use of the stock figure of Arrius. Hiding behind the paladin as they made their way forward. In all honesty, this was preferable to the kobold, as sticking to Sapphire always left him with the distinct feeling he would soon be dead.
Stealth: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (1) + 3 = 4
Knowledge: Local: 1d20 ⇒ 5
Recognizing the man or not, Aurical realized nothing would help their reputation more than saving someone captured by the demons. That, and their little show trial rankled his scales. He tugged at the back of Arrius' pants. "We must save him before this farce runs it's course." he pleads with the paladin.
Pffft. No aura of good. The kobold's thoughts return to the earlier remark the succubus had made.
Aurical certainly thinks he is "good", though certainly the self serving kind.

Sapphire Aurora |

Sapphire moves into stealth mode, There were things up ahead that needed to be Sabby Stabbed.
Stealth 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (18) + 10 = 28
Perseption 1d20 + 14 ⇒ (13) + 14 = 27

Liliyashanina |

Ah yes, I have used boredom as a tool for extracting information before, but on your pathethic part Rakshasa life expectancy it would not even be worth the effort, if the empty cavity filled with useless biomass that is your head had any secrets worth coaxing out. Do you know anything about Paladin juice greater? No? What a surprise your useless!
He leaves, without closing the door, and you hear him saying
Greetings class, and on todays section of vivisection and you
Please position yourself where you want inside of the red for Saphirre and yellow for everyone else areas!
Inits
Vermleck rich guy: 1d20 - 1 ⇒ (11) - 1 = 10
Hulrun Vermleck: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (8) + 1 = 9
3 cultist: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (19) + 1 = 20
sahala init: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (9) + 7 = 16
Arrius init: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (1) + 2 = 3
Saphirre init: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (12) + 3 = 15
Aurical init: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (20) + 4 = 24
Sevanna init: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (8) + 5 = 13

Adigale Clemens |

"ouch" Adigale mutters with mock hurt, to no one since he has already left. Sighing the trussed-up barbarian looks up at her chains, probably for the hundredth time. But it never hurts to look again, since there is nothing else to do with her time.
perception for any fault in the links or anything to help her get out of here: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (13) + 8 = 21

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

Assuming Constantine was able to see Sapphire before she disappeared, which direction was she going: to the right or the left?

Liliyashanina |

You see no chinks in the armor, but in an container above you, there is a potion titled "Paladin juice medium, beta version". As you look at it you see a cheeky fae face in the liquid, winking at you and phantoming you to open your mouth, but not right now? As if it wants to make you wait for a distraction.
My GM plan is to have you freed once the party invades.
Can everyone, other then Adigale, move their tokens on the map?

Sapphire Aurora |

Lef, using vanish to get past the open space
Sapphire was designed and built for this kind of infiltration.
Soon no one can see her.

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

Lef, using vanish to get past the open space
Sapphire was designed and built for this kind of infiltration.
Soon no one can see her.
Thanks! I didn't want the non-stealthy crowd to go the same way and ruin her approach. :)

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

** spoiler omitted **
Can everyone, other then Adigale, move their tokens on the map?
I tried it out and I can move the tokens. With Sapphire going left (although I don't know what path she's going to take), Constantine will lead the rest of the party to the right. I moved Constantine to right around the corner where the 'enemy' would/should be able to see him. I'll have him take 10 on his Stealth for a whopping 7, which is why I think he'll be seen. I assume the other PCs will follow behind him.

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

Sahala updates the magic armor spell with a wand and confidently follows the warriors.
GM, I changed the token on the map to match the avatar here )
Thanks Sahala and that's a good reminder, anyone with hour/level or 10 minutes/level buffs should write what they've cast and include it in their tagline so the GM knows.

Liliyashanina |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

perception: 1d20 - 3 ⇒ (1) - 3 = -2
Swarmmates, Cultist, devourers, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Hulrun, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Hulrun. The noble Vermleck
Hath told you Hulrun was righteous:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
To the jeering of the oblivious cultists, the accusing Vermleck does a
perform oratory: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (7) + 1 = 8 absolutely craptastic improvistation
on the famous Chelaxian bards Juliasn Shatterlances play "Aurelius Thrune",
I am not even ded yet! The Hulrun Vermleck announces
You arent, but Hulrun sure is! As is that, whats his name? Rich pompous twat whose corps I am inhibiting. Really funny that he was a Baphomet Cultist haha! Oooops! Oh, was Hulrun a Baphomet cultist? Given how many crusaders he got murdered...
Wouldnt you love to know that? Haha, I have no idea, his brain was smashed already when I got in! Wide empty mental spaces!
The 2 Vermlecks are fully oblivious, but their reverie is interrupted by one of the cultist throwing a tomatoe at them.
throw tomatoe: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (3) + 3 = 6
The f@++ where did that cultist get a Tomato? These things are really pricy and rare in Mendev
He seems part elfen at least? And has pretty silky clothes under his armor? And seems to wear a red hat under his helmet
The cultists are so distracted that you can move into the red area and do your surprise round from there.
The Tomato throwing cultists is the one furthest from you.

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

Perception: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (14) + 1 = 15
Constantine would take time to smirk or share what he knows but he's focused on continuing forward and gestures carefully with his head to those following him.
@GM: Moving Constantine's token; I'm not sure if anyone else is going to follow him closely or spread out or do whatever with surprise round. I don't think Constantine has anything to do with a surprise round except possibly charge; are there any terrain issues between him and the cultists?

Sapphire Aurora |

Time for the distraction, Sapphire places a smock stick just past the wall and lights it, then heads off around the building.
The stick is consumed after 1 round, and the smoke dissipates naturally after 1 minute. Aim is to give the illusion of a fire in the biulding
The idea is the smoke will woft past the wall and pull the guards.
See map

Aurical |

Aurical rubbed his little paws together in anticipation. Here was the perfect chance to throw out his newest spell. Possibly saving an inquisitor! Before anyone else could react he reached into his components and fingered some silver dust and a piece of flint. His tail curling up slightly to show the amusement his impassive features didn't.
When he drew his hand from the pouch his claw tips were softly illuminated, and he drew out a magical symbol before him. Chanting softly in draconic as he went. As he finished the chant he exhaled in a satisfied hiss. The glowing light vanishing in that moment. Then appearing between one of the cultists and the vermleck. Glowing brighter, and brighter, until it erupted in a burst of radiance. Searing the evil and threatening to blind.
DC15 reflex save vs the blindness. Spell resistance applies. On save target is dazzled instead.
Damage to Evil!: 4d4 ⇒ (1, 2, 4, 2) = 9
Blindness/Dazzled Duration: 1d4 ⇒ 1
Looking closely at the map, if he places it to the left of the vermleck he should be able to hit it, the cultist to the north and south, and Hulrun. Hope he isn't evil! Kekekekeke.

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

Constantine waits for the casters to finish targeting the area so he doesn't get caught in any effects.
He's also waiting for any kind of Bard bonus before he goes charging forward. :)

Liliyashanina |

I did not see any of these posts, thats weird!
-----------Sahala turn
willsave: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (1) + 3 = 4
Green cultists misfortuned
-----------Aurical action Burst of radiance
spell resistance Hulrun vermleck: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (12) + 4 = 16
spell resistance vermleck: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (3) + 4 = 7
reflex Cultist red: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (19) + 10 = 29
reflex Cultist green: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (19) + 2 = 21
reflex Cultist green misfortune: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (9) + 2 = 11
reflex Hulrun vermleck: 1d20 ⇒ 3
With surprising agility, the tomatoe thrower closes its eyes, almost throwing Aurical a hard to perceive wink. He still takes some damage.
The green cultist nearly mirrors his red comrades agile eye closing, but some degree of curiosity "unfortunately" gets the better of him and he is fully caught on the eye nerve damaging singe.
-12 HP to red cultist, green cultist, Hulrun vermleck
-Hulrun-leck blinded for one turn, green cultist blinded, red cultist dazzled
-------------------------Sevanna turn
Sevana begins her performance
On to battle!
Here we are the hunters!
Red as fire!
Fear the Bow!
Spell warrior weapon song, add +1 to your weapons enchancement mods, add +d6 to damage vs evil outsider, bypass evil outsider damage reductions by counting as "good".
She then halts her performance, anticipating this to be a long series of fights, and lets it linger for 2 more turns.
-------------------------

Adigale Clemens |

Adigale's heart thumps hard in her chest as she sees the bottle wink. While she dreads what is means, since the fey care about as much for their toys as a spoiled child would, she couldn't help the thrill that rushed through her.
She manages a disparaging groan outwardly though. Her brain demanded some resistance to be used for whatever game they were playing.

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

@GM: The system does this every now and then where people don't receive notifications. It's weird!
With spells flung and song begun, Constantine tightens his grip on his nodachi and charges into the fray!
Nodachi with Power Attack, Whetstone, Bard, Charge: 1d20 + 7 + 1 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 7 + 1 + 2 = 141d10 + 6 + 6 + 1 + 1 ⇒ (8) + 6 + 6 + 1 + 1 = 22
Nice to see the crap rolls continue...

Liliyashanina |

The cultist could have easily seen this blow coming effortlessly moved out of it and make a snarky comment about Paladins being very predictable.
But he didnt.
Because he is blind.
And never again would his eyes reopen, as Arrius cleaves him in twain in a blow both powerful and telegraphed.
I would tip my hat at that but that would give the joke away the red cultist mutters
red cultist bluff: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (20) + 8 = 28
OH NOES He shouts with with dramatic pronounciation
A mighty Paladin assails us and hath cleaved Bill in twain! Quick Quick, open the gate for we must seek refuge from the charge of the righteous!
The red cultist bangs on the door.
But I am Bill and the green cultist was Curtis? The third cultist says
You have swapped names to increase the swarms operational security! Praise Derpkari! The "red cultist" quickly adds, dispelling his comrades suspicions.
The red cultist is completely unafraid, and seemingly exasperated, and probably not a cultist, and actively seeking to get the door opened from the inside.
enemies
init red cultist: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (14) + 8 = 22
init Hulrunleck: 1d20 - 1 ⇒ (17) - 1 = 16
init other vermleck: 1d20 - 1 ⇒ (16) - 1 = 15
init still living cultist: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (8) + 2 = 10
friends
init Aurical: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (14) + 4 = 18
init Saphirre: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (14) + 3 = 17
init Sahala: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (9) + 6 = 15
init Arrius: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (19) + 2 = 21 Maybe I should roll for you more often?
init Sevanna: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (13) + 5 = 18
Init order:
Red cultist (sought to bluff to get the door opened)
Arrius
Sevanna
Aurical
Saphirre
Hulrunleck Blind for 1 turn
Sahala
Other vermleck Dazzled for one turn
Other cultist
Party minus saphirre is up!

Sapphire Aurora |

Flanking Blue
Shortbow TH1d20 + 4 + 2 ⇒ (9) + 4 + 2 = 15 DMG 1d6 + 3d6 ⇒ (3) + (6, 5, 4) = 18 Critical x3 Type piercing. DMG [1d6]+ is [Sneak attack+3d6]
From the smoke she moves and shoots

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

@GM: Is that a Vermleck that's a 5' step away from Constantine? Asking because I'd like to get that +1d6 damage vs. evil outsiders! :)

Aurical |

Aurical takes great pleasure in seeing his spell do work, and as he is unslinging his crossbow he sees Arrius charge forward and finish the blinded target. He gives a pleased chirp and hop, and then widens his stance to shoot properly. Aiming at the green cultist carefully before he became engaged in melee.
Crossbow (Song Enhanced): 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (12) + 8 = 201d6 + 1 ⇒ (4) + 1 = 5

Liliyashanina |

Saphirre seeks to shoot the blue cultist, but reconsiders given that he has already been bisected by Arrius, aiming at the green cultist (since this one is flat footed) instead.
You have the movement to get into sneak attack range of him, I moved you 5 feet further
Her hit connects, leaving him nearly dead. As the cultist awkwardly and blindedly moves to face his assailants, Auricals bolts hits him right through the ear, slaying him.
The blind Hulrunleck targets the square Arrius is in, orienting himself at the sound made, with a mass inflict light wounds!
damage: 1d8 + 3 ⇒ (1) + 3 = 4
will Arrius: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (6) + 8 = 14
Arrius mental protections fail him and he takes 4 damage!
The vermleck then moves towards the door bumbling into the red cultist!
blind fumbling around: 1d20 ⇒ 7
Dont touch me wormface The cultist sneers
The sneering didnt come from the cultists mouth but his torso?
The cultist is also bending a bit oddly? And, on a closer look, his scythe is odd! These are actually 2 scythes, made to look like one?
Sahala is up!

Aurical |

The golden kobold scampers up behind Arrius as he loads another bolt into his little crossbow.
Is that Hulrun or an actual demon?" he asks. Right before firing at the Vermleck standing out in the open. He didn't understand what Sevana had done with her song, but he suspected his glowing bolt would strike true.
Song Enhanced Crossbow: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (5) + 8 = 132d6 + 1 ⇒ (4, 1) + 1 = 6

Arrius Voralius Constantine |

I don't think I went this round yet; if I did, just disregard the rolls. Unless they're good! Then keep them for next round. :P
Constantine frowns as he answers Aurical, "I'm not sure there is a difference now; whether Hulrun turned to evil or is possessed by a demon he must be dealt with."
Constantine advances on what is/was Hulrun and swings at him!
Nodachi with Power Attack, Bard (vs. Demon bonus): 1d20 + 7 + 1 ⇒ (13) + 7 + 1 = 211d10 + 6 + 6 + 1 + 1d6 ⇒ (3) + 6 + 6 + 1 + (5) = 21

Sahala Love |

Sahala apparently finds what is happening funny. She giggles thinly covering her mouth with her palm and pointing her finger at the cultist, forcing him to look around what is wrong with him and why the beautiful tiefling is laughing at him.
Misfortune Hex (DC17 W)

Liliyashanina |

The only remaining cultist is the red one, and somehow...
Do you target his head or his... Rear end? For some reason you cant do both at the same time! Strange!