Cucumber - we have 4 finished PC's, and 4 people who have expressed an interest but haven't posted PC's yet. So sure, create a PC if you're interested. I'd suggest you read all my posts here before starting, because I've made some changes to the rules in the original setting document. But yes, only one psionic on the team, and we already have one, sorry.
Still looking for my books and/or a character generator.
Any suggestions for a free one ??
Mokshai - I don't know of any free ones, but the SWADE PDF costs only $10.
@Mokshai: There should also be a quickstart guide that's free. There's a Hero Lab package for Savage Worlds, but to be honest it's so easy to put a character together that you don't need it. I'm just lazy.
@ZenFox42: Ah, I got ya. I honestly just put that in as a quick handle for who Mark has contacts with. I'll get that fixed. The idea was that he was tied into the merchants and traders more than the military since he left on less than amicable terms.
Just thinking out loud...
Something Adam just said made me start thinking...someone's got to be "legally" responsible for receiving and delivering cargo (even when you're smuggling it), and that person would probably have the title "Captain".
Problem is, that sounds more like a Hindrance than an Edge.
I suppose the PC's could create an association, partnership, or co-op (not technically legal, but by consent) which makes everyone equally responsible? That would also guarantee everyone gets an equal split in the profits (or losses). But someone would have to be the one who signs their names to the paperwork (or shakes the hand of the smuggler).
I haven't had time to take it any farther, anyone want to comment on this idea, or run somewhere with it?
And, just checking, does any of the existing PC's have the Captain Edge? No need to reply if you don't.
Adam - I forgot about the test drive. <time passes> I just looked at it, and it only gives basic rules on how to play, but nothing about how to create a character.
Rigor - just looked at your PC, and sorry, but the Sci-Fi Companion is off-limits (it would open a WAY too big can 'o worms!). If you want extra armor, take the Military Armor Edge.
I looked through it since you brought it up in regards to the spider legs. Figured you would look at the items and do a case by case.
You had also mentioned that character taking the Rich edge to be able to afford it, so I figured only Filthy Rich was off limits. However, without the income, the edge is next to worthless, as starting money will very soon been ancient history, so it makes perminantly sinking an edge pretty unwise. In my opinion, anything that takes an edge should generally be something you can always use. On that note, I'm rather against the idea of Armour as a edge, for the same reasons. If it takes an Edge, it should be Transdermal Armour, implanted through a complex and expensive procedure, but essentially permanent. I can understand making Rich and Filthy Rich off limits, as being constantly broke is kind of part of the Firefly vibe, though it does limit several character concepts.
The Armour I cited above has a nice build in weakness, in that it only applies to bullets, and knifes, punches, Swords, and Alliance Sonic weapons go right through it, which makes it on par with real world concealed Armour. It seems to me like the kind of thing the rich might routinely include in their outerwear.
I will have to look into that SWADE PDF. Can you give me a day or two to get it sorted out ?
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So, if this is too much information, just ignore it...
Regarding weapon specialization :For both a d6 and d8 attack, specialization reduces your chance of hitting a target with Parry 5-7 (remember, in Firefly, you don't wear armor in a sword duel) by about half (as compared to without the -2). But, that still means that a d8 attack against Parry 5 has about a 25% chance of hitting.
Based on Mal's performance in the TV show, that's still too high. If I recall correctly, he didn't get in a single hit in the entire fight (well, he got one minor cut in, but it was implied that the other guy let him get that).
But with the default d4-2 I'm suggesting for Fighting/Swords, you'd have only a 6-12% chance of hitting. I like this better.
The challenge with this is it doesn't make any real world sense, it's not really consistent with the show (more on this in a moment), and it inadvertently makes swords an Awesome weapon, since no one else can use it.
I think the real issue here is that Mal is not a trained hand to hand fighter. Never in any of the episodes is he ever shown using any kind of specialized unarmed moves or training, and when he does get in unarmed fights, he just punches guys. He's a brawler.
It is well established however that Atherton Wing is an Awesome duelist. It is implied he is probably the best on Persephone, and it is explicitly stated that he lives for dueling, loves it, and has killed quite a few people in duels. It is pretty much his thing. He's the kind of guy that loves looking for excuses to get into duels because he knows he's good at it, and the intimidation factor of people knowing he's so good is where he draws a lot of his social power and credibility from. Don't give Atherton Wing an excuse for a duel, because if you do, you're as good as dead. This is why Inara tries so hard to convince Mal to run; even if he was a good duelist, Atherton would still kill him, because he's that good. Mal being untrained just makes it that much more obvious.
I think what is happening in the show is that Mal is a guy with a d4 or d6 at best in Fighting (and a d10 or d12 in shooting), and Atherton Wing has a d10 or better in Fighting and a specialization in Swords. I would venture it is the highest skill he has.
With a d6 with a sword, Mal can only hit a parry of 7 (d10 skill, without even accounting for the Block or Improved Block edge Atherton probably has) if his d6 Aces, which already gives you a 16.666%, in the ballpark you were looking for. I don't think any modification is necessary in regards to swords, and making it an independent skill means no character that is not a dedicated duelist will ever stand even a chance in a duel. Instead of making duels an interesting plot and challenge area, it just means getting in one would be suicide, and so it will always be avoided at all costs.
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Well lets keep this party rollin'!
(I spoiler stuff because I know I can go on for a bit. heh.)
Alright! Good, good. Glad to know that I'm helping.
So about this 'no weapons' thing.... =p
I accept that the Freak Out roll is an extra Hindrance on top of everything else, and that is the price for having magic, because it's so very very rare. Alright. Yep. Paid in full.
But then the fine print of, also, you can't have weapons. Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold up there, Tex.
River Tam had a d12 in Strength and Fighting, so she didn't need weapons. And she didn't really freak out that much. When she went ham at the Oatie Bar in Serenity...
(I'm just going to pause to crow about how cool it is that we get to geek out about Firefly right now. =))
...her brain was purposefully targeted by the Military. The one time she actually attacked the team (a slash at Jayne that some would say was deserved, just overdue) it was during a normal meal time. (And was used as the impetus for one of THE BEST episodes. The return of Dr. Tam to Ariel!)
Of course River was also buried by psychosis so deep that she couldn't tell a loaded gun from a branch on the snow. (Objects in Space.)
So what we're getting at is that River is much much, much much much, more powerful, but that's in both the good...and the bad.
This seems like a thing to leave that up to the party to both decide and execute. None of us know what the Freak Out is (could be catatonics for all we know) so the best course might to let in play out in-game and then let the in game reaction fall naturally.
Besides, you wouldn't deprive a sweet and innocent girl of any means to defend herself in this cruel, cruel world, would you? *blink blink*
Speaking of which! Really, there are black market uzis and shotguns but stun guns are strictly Verboten? I thought I was walking a good line between not having weapons and still being able to defend myself by choosing non-lethal options. Seemed like a good middle ground.
So what about pepper spray? Just as you would not deprive an old man of his walking stick, one can not leave the fairer sex without any protections from the big, scary mans, can you? *eyes flutter*
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I just saw Rigor's two posts, and I'd like to agree with one, and disagree with the other.
The way Rigor tells it is spot-on about swords. Mal was outclassed by a guy who was just better in the art, but Savage Worlds is so good a system that it intrinsically seems to answer it, with the d6 fighting vs. a d10 fighting, with the resultant impact to Parry, without a need to heavily modify anything. TBH, I don't see the need to add a whole new skill just for this one thing. I mean, you can see that because firearms are a thing, more dice are put into Shooting than Fighting, so any of us coming up against a d10 fighter, our d6 will still be outclassed. (And arn't there feats to increase Parry? If Wing had some of that, then the result is reinforced.)
With all due respect, I'd like to disagree about Rich and the things it buys. More than once I've gotten Rich (or Filthy) and enjoyed the stuff it gets well into a game. If Rich lets you have more armor than anyone else has, it's conceivable you'll enjoy that for many sessions to come. The armor is also concealable, an extra perk making it well worth the money.
And then, later, if as everyone else gets money enough to upgrade their armor, while they are pouring through their money to get on par with you, you can rather put all that money into other nice candy that they -wish- they could get, putting you forever ahead on the wealth curve.
IMHO. YMMV.
Thanks for the weigh in Atlas. In a world where gunslinging is the norm, people with high fighting skills are just going to be very niche. The Agent from Serenity was the same. He kicked Mal's ass; it wasn't even a contest. The only reason Mal beat him eventually was the Deus ex Machina of Mal's relocated nerve cluster, and him feigning paralysis (a Dirty Trick, in game terms).
In regards to Rich, I can see your point, but I still disagree. Starting with $1500 vs. $500 is not even close to being worth an edge, in my opinion. Particularly as it is a moot point since armour is not available, and my Doctor doesn't need more than one gun. As you said, IMHO YMMV, and mine does.
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OK. A lively group here! Been busier than expected the last few days and have a pretty full weekend ahead. Here is version 1.0 of my character. I should have time maybe Sunday to finish up goals and more contacts.
Saffron Puckett
Originally from Hera in the Georgia system in the border area, Saffron grew up a theater brat. She spent time acting and on the local school shooting team. She grew into an attractive woman who wanted little to do with the farming based lifestyle of most of her community. She was noticed during a performance by a Companion hired to be eye candy for the arm of a local politician who was there only to be seen. After a few discussions Saffron packed her bags and left for training. A few years later, more mature and a little hardened (inside at least) she began her career.
Saffron is a petite woman of 5’5”. She has short black hair, pale skin and dark green eyes. When working she usually wears a red wig. Through shenanigans, luck (good or bad, still to be seen) she ended up on a ship full of interesting people…
Str d4
Agi d6
Vig d6
Sm d6
Sp d8
Athletics (AG) D4, Common Know (SM) D4, Notice (SM) D4, Persuasion (SP) D8, Stealth (AG) D6, Fighting (AG) D4, Intimidation (SP) D4, Performance (SP) D6, Research (SM) D4, Shooting (AG) D6, Taunt (SM) D4, Thievery (AG) D6
Gear:
Armored Duster (75), Casual clothing (20), Formal clothing (200), Dagger (25), Derringer (100), Pepper spray (15), Umbrella (5), Lighter (2), 50 rounds small bullets (10)
Edges:
Companion training (free, human)
Registered Companion
Attractive
Hinderances:
Code of honor (major)
Doubting Thomas (minor)
Cautious (minor)
Short term goal:
Long term goal:
Contacts:
Sheila Tapback: The experienced companion who brought her into the lifestyle.
Therenger - oops, I forgot my own rules. The Captain Edge does mean you own the ship, but you still don't make the major decisions. I just looked at my most recent version of the setting, and found the phrase "which means you get to call the shots", which I thought I had removed. I just think having all the players having a say in decisions is better than one player making all the major decisions.
Totally agree on this point and allowing the Captain to own the ship (or at least to appear to own the ship) makes this a desirable edge for status if nothing else. I would also never seek to infringe on any other player's agency, but I would expect that whenever there is a decision to be made that specifically affects the ship itself that after a respectful deliberation the Captain would get final say, whether that be Irnk or Perry or whomever. I will take the Captain's Edge and sign up for the position if Irnk decides he doesn't want it.
Therenger - can you describe your debt? Also, I don't have time to cross-reference everything, but I calculate your Parry as 4 and your Toughness as 6(1), unless Obese or something else factors in.
Obese gives +1 Toughness. I'll double-check Perry's Parry too. It's on my list for the balance of the afternoon to flesh out this character with a backstory and contacts and will address the debt question. Knowing whether Perry owns the ship will influence that bit of history.
Mokshai - I don't know of any free ones, but the SWADE PDF costs only $10.
And worth every penny. A very nice, polished product!
@ZenFox42: Be warned, I am a sponge of random knowledge and I have learned a bit over the years about maritime law, traditions, and commerce over the years. I love talking about what I do know and world building, so it is taking every bit of self control I have not to drop an essay on how intra-system shipping could work based on what I know. Heck, give me enough time I could flesh out the Alliance Military as well (Based on the show and movie. I haven't read/seen/access to anything else.)
Just thinking out loud...
Something Adam just said made me start thinking...someone's got to be "legally" responsible for receiving and delivering cargo (even when you're smuggling it), and that person would probably have the title "Captain".
Problem is, that sounds more like a Hindrance than an Edge.
I suppose the PC's could create an association, partnership, or co-op (not technically legal, but by consent) which makes everyone equally responsible? That would also guarantee everyone gets an equal split in the profits (or losses). But someone would have to be the one who signs their names to the paperwork (or shakes the hand of the smuggler).
I haven't had time to take it any farther, anyone want to comment on this idea, or run somewhere with it?
And, just checking, does any of the existing PC's have the Captain Edge? No need to reply if you don't.
You could be opening up a can of worms here and ultimately it should be your call. If we want to go down this road, with the Captain being the registered owner of the ship, then clearly the Captain always has the most at stake with regard to any jobs involving freight. In real life, when a shipment of product is damaged or lost in transit, especially for very large things like a chiller for an industrial building, the freight company is usually held responsible unless there are mitigating circumstances.
For our purposes, that could mean that the ship itself becomes collateral. The idea of equal responsibility implies we all have an ownership stake in the ship itself, which is fine but reduces any potential authority for the "Captain." I'm thinking now of fishing vessels which are often owned by multiple stakeholders. That could work. although it might lead to some bickering with all the owners on-board.
There's also the matter of insurance and inspections. Space ports aren't going to want potential accidental nukes going off in one of their docking/landing bays. I imagine most captains are going to want to limit their liability, and insurers are going to want to know that the vessel they are insuring isn't going to make headlines when it takes out a chuck of the port.
I think we should discuss how we want the ownership stake to be. Since we're effectively freelancers without the backing of a large corporation, we would share both profits and liabilities from operating the ship. It makes sense that those with larger stakes in the ship get more of the profit since they are also going to be taking more of the risk if we go into the red on a job.
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And so much for the campy space western! I'll push back on the co-op idea. That we would all have the resources to purchase an equity share on a starship does fit with the setting, at all. I almost prefer ZenFox' earlier notion that the Captain does not own the ship and is merely the most responsible party on board, with sole accountability to the owners, who are NPCs we may or may not need to deal with. The Captain's responsibilities would need to be reconsidered.
Or if the Captain is the owner, the rest of us are either hired-hands and in it for a cut of the profits. We can hand-waive most of the details because profit is factored after costs, so we really don't need to think in terms of revenue, cost of doing business, and OI. If we take a job for 1000 credits, that's assumed to already account for the cost of fuel, food, port fees, regulations, taxes, administrative overhead, etc... 1000 credits is 1000 credits, split evenly unless there is some other non-accounting reason to do so.
I probably should apologize, but I'm not gonna. >:3
Going back to the point ZenFox made that instigated this conversation, I agree that there could be a Hindrance associated with ownership.
I would suggest we first rework the Captain Edge to exclude the clause about ownership. That makes it a nice clean job title with significant responsibility but opens rp to dialog with an NPC owner or ownership group whose disposition to the Captain and her crew would reflect the profitability of the ship. We could develop this into a tree of Leadership edges with more powers as we advance to further incentivize someone taking the Edge.
Then offer the Hindrance, "You Own a Starship!: You are the owner of record of a small independent freighter. You have hired a Captain and crew (the PCs) to make your enterprise profitable, but you have little actual say in the day-to-day operation of the ship itself beyond terminating their employment. You are entitled to a 50% share of the profits but are responsible for all costs associated with the registration and upgrades to the ship. Any losses incurred as a result of your crew's negligence or any non-extenuating circumstances (that you can talk your way out of) are yours alone to deal with. This is considered a Minor Hindrance if you own the ship outright, and a Major Hindrance if your are indebted for the value of the starship."
This wouldn't preclude the "owner" from also serving as Captain or another member of the crew. The Edge and the Hindrance together would offset, to some extent.
Or whatever.
Perry saw the war as an opportunity. At that time he owned a small freighter, the Elysium Pale, for which he was in hock over his mohawk to Taro Afar, a venture capitalist operating from the Border mining world Red Barren. Perry took contracts from both sides, but soon found that working with the Alliance felt slimy and was frought with bureaucratic hassle, while the Bowncoats were sympathtic but didn't pay well and there was the chance of running afoul with the Alliance.
He took a big payday job from the Alliance shuttling a small group of spies into Browncoat territory who'd been psionically mind-locked. The job went sideways as soon as the Pale reached the planet, where they were attacked by an orbiting Alliance cruiser that didn't know about the operation, and then by a browncoat ground battery. Only some miraculous flying got the ship to the ground, but the Elysium Pale would never fly again.
Taro Afar was not willing to write off his investment and instead saddled Perry with the outstanding debt, to be fully paid off within the original five-year terms. Afar is somewhat flexible when a payment deadline is missed so long as it is promptly made up and doesn't become a habit.
And speaking of habits, Perry has always enjoyed a drink, but in the wake of the war and the loss of his livelihood he's taken a vigorous approach to the bottle. For the most part he operates as a high-functioning alcoholic, but he starts to lose it if the demon's thirst is not slaked.
Short term goal: Pay off his debt to Taro Afar
Long term goal: Save enough credits for a down payment on another starship of his own.
Contacts:
Taro Afar, venture capitalist based on the Border mining world Red Barren. Afar is always immaculately dressed and projects an aristocratic air. The people who deal with him are beguiled by his apparent good will, and he is a practical sort, understanding circumstances to an extent. But like anyone in his position, there is a limit to his patience. He has been known to hire bounty hunters to pursue delinquent debt-holders with extreme prejudice. Perry is still in Afar's good graces, having lived off the fat of that last job with the Alliance during the war, but that money's about to run out.
Martya Palinrose, a registered Companion with clientele across Border space, she is Perry's angel. He can always count on her to recharge him spiritually when he's feeling particularly low, and to occasionally point him toward opportunities and rumors of work.
Belfore, a fixer operating in the Rim, who makes an excellent moonshine and can acquire almost anything, for a price.
OK. A lively group here! Been busier than expected the last few days and have a pretty full weekend ahead. Here is version 1.0 of my character. I should have time maybe Sunday to finish up goals and more contacts.
Saffron Puckett
Saffron? Is this supposed to be the character from the show or merely inspired by her?
BTW, my muse is a little burned out, so I won't be joining. Have funn smuggling the castle!
Philo - sorry you won't be joining us, good luck in the future!
Mokshai - sure, no problem, it will probably take several days to get the various issues of discussion sorted out!
Ok, several issues to discuss...
Rigor - I can understand your going to the Sci-Fi Companion because I brought it up, but...sorry, there's too much stuff in it that players might want, that would be non-canon and/or unbalanced. However, I did say in the setting document that Rich and Filthy Rich were unavailable, and the Filthy Rich I was offering the player to get the spider-walker was just being used as an example of why the legs were unavailable. Sorry for the confusions.
I think I can solve the debate about the Filthy/Rich Edges by creating a new one : Nouveau Riche. It provides the starting wealth of Filthy Rich, but no extended income. So you're getting part of the benefit of two Edges for the price of one. Sound good? (P.S. - I'm open to better names for the Edge...)
I wanted to offer the armor that we saw Zoe had, but if I offer it as an item that can be bought, then if the price is too low, everyone will have it, and if the price is too high, why offer it at all? Hence, I thought offering it as an Edge puts a high "price" on it that everyone could "afford" if they wanted to. How about this : make the price $2000, so that you *have* to take the Nouveau Riche Edge, and it leaves you with the $500 regular starting money. I know the price is not in-line with SWADE armors, but this is Firefly, and these things are *rare*. Thoughts? Preferences on Edge vs. high price?
I concede the issue about swords, both Rigor and Atlas make good arguments. No need even for specialization.
Therenger said : "I would also never seek to infringe on any other player's agency, but I would expect that whenever there is a decision to be made that specifically affects the ship itself that after a respectful deliberation the Captain would get final say". Well said! Can I add a variation of that to the Edge? Irnk hasn't posted since his initial post 3 days ago, so I'm inclined to say you can be the Captain.
Therenger said : "If we take a job for 1000 credits, that's assumed to already account for the cost of fuel, food, port fees, regulations, taxes, administrative overhead, etc..." Actually, in the setting description, you take 10% of your profit and "throw it away" to pay for food, fuel, and repairs...
Adam - I know it makes perfect sense for there to be a "trader's union", but I'm going to introduce the concept as a major plot-line in the game. Also, regarding insurance and inspections (and docking fees), in my head I had rolled those into the 10% of the take put towards food, fuel, and repairs. I'll add those in explicitly.
ALL : since now food, fuel, repairs, insurance, inspections, and docking fees are being skimmed off the top, does 10% sound too low? Maybe 15% or even 20%? (Yes, I know that greed is going to want to make you say 10% is fine, but I want to be at least a little realistic... :)
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Now about the legalities issue I brought up, which I knew was going to open a big ol' can-o-worms...
I'm looking for something that addresses the issue, but is simple to implement.
I don't want some faceless NPC to own the ship, part of the charm of the series is that everyone is invested (emotionally, at least) in the ship.
It seems like the best solution is to have the Captain own the ship (handwaving how he got it), so he signs all the paperwork, and is legally responsible for it and its actions. And he agrees that everyone on board gets an equal portion of the profits (since his expenses are being paid for by that lost 10-20%) and losses. Thoughts?
I'm thinking I should add that last part to the setting rules, so that some future player who becomes Captain can't decide to take 50% of the profits and the other PC's split the rest...
Putting this in a Spoiler, just because...
About your points...
You said "River Tam had a d12 in Strength and Fighting, so she didn't need weapons. And she didn't really freak out that much." I took her high Strength, Fighting, Shooting, and speed in combat to be her psionics kicking in (like multiple Boost Traits and Speed/Quickness), not her actual stats. And altho I've only watched the series once, and I have a bad memory, to me it seemed to me like she was Freaking Out all the time. And one of those times, she got hold of a gun on board the ship and started waving it around, which panicked everyone. After even one such incident, I'd think she wouldn't be allowed to carry a weapon (I want to say that that was actually said in the TV show, but...bad memory...).
Altho you're right about Tam being much more powerful than a starting PC, that just enabled her to take on a pack of Reavers single-handedly. Even a starting PC has psychosis from enhancing their abilities, hence the Freaking Out.
And when you do Freak Out, please come up with different things each time (and sometimes with consequences). I know you can be creative, please don't make me make a table... ;)
According to the Firefly wiki, stun guns are Alliance weapons, which means they're illegal to own by common folk. I didn't come up with any rules for PC's starting with Alliance items (altho I'm going to update the setting after this), but you can try to purchase one in-game (Networking-4 once on each planet you land on to find one, cost TBD).
I never said you couldn't have pepper spray.
I'm open to any counterpoints you want to make...
Can I add a variation of that to the Edge?
Of course! And I agree on all points; this is a game and the game itself is the reward. And anyway we are a team of equals so in-game compensations should be equal as well. 10% off the top to costs makes for easy math.
Inrk called it first and he can have it if he wants it. Seems like we're still sorting things out here and have time yet to figure that one out as well. I've been ham-handed with this because I've wanted to be Captain Kirk since I was nine years old.
Rigor - just as a by-the-way, you said about Filthy Rich : "However, without the income, the edge is next to worthless, as starting money will very soon been ancient history, so it makes permanently sinking an edge pretty unwise."
But I just noticed in SWADE, it says about Rich (and Filthy Rich, too) : "If a regular income is appropriate for this setting, the hero receives the modern-day equivalent of a $150,000 annual salary."
Sounds to me like the option to only get a boost in starting funds is already built-in. But I'm not going to argue the point, I'm just going to add Nouveau Rich.
Therenger - If Inrk doesn't make a post in 2 more days, you can have Captain.
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OK. A lively group here! Been busier than expected the last few days and have a pretty full weekend ahead. Here is version 1.0 of my character. I should have time maybe Sunday to finish up goals and more contacts.
Saffron Puckett
Saffron? Is this supposed to be the character from the show or merely inspired by her?
BTW, my muse is a little burned out, so I won't be joining. Have funn smuggling the castle!
Heh. I actually forgot about that. Just grabbed a 'firefly' sounding name. :)
I don't see anything wrong with a group owned ship, and I would think things like that are common. A lot of real world business and start ups begin with all the founding members as full partners in the business, even if they have different positions in the company. The CEO, CFO, tech guys, etc all own the company equally, even if one is "in -charge."
For maritime law, you would probably need an official Captain, for the registration, and to be responsible for making sure the ship and its maneuvers comply with maritime law. Day to day, we might function more as a democracy, with the captain winning in the case of a tie. The captain would also have in the moment authority to make decisions necessary for preserving the ship.
Edit: Another idea could be to have a character that takes Your Nouveau Riche edge be the ticketed owner of the ship. Many enterprises have Financier on the team. One extra share of the profits could go to pay for the ship's rent/mortgage, or it could be a standard expense, such as deducting 15% off the top instead of 10%. I think I prefer the joint venture option, but I'm spit-balling.
Rigor - just as a by-the-way, you said about Filthy Rich : "However, without the income, the edge is next to worthless, as starting money will very soon been ancient history, so it makes permanently sinking an edge pretty unwise."
But I just noticed in SWADE, it says about Rich (and Filthy Rich, too) : "If a regular income is appropriate for this setting, the hero receives the modern-day equivalent of a $150,000 annual salary."
Sounds to me like the option to only get a boost in starting funds is already built-in. But I'm not going to argue the point, I'm just going to add Nouveau Rich.
Fair enough. I think this setting, where modern banking and investments are built in, is exactly the setting where you would expect an income, but I concede that the Edge would still be available in a post apocalyptic or dimension hopping game (without the income), but then, I think what I said applies, and a player would be foolish to take it.
The edge you propose may make a decent compromise. Though I'd propose the name Flush instead of Nouveau Rich. You might be able to add something to it in terms of an ongoing mechanic, in that the character always seems to have enough to just live a little higher on the hog. Real fruits and veggies (for themselves), nicer clothes, a private room when they go to the hotel and so on.
One point I'm confused on though is where the idea came from that body Armour is rare? Nobody oo's and ah's over Zoe's vest like it was Frodo's mithril coat, they just go, 'oh, she was wearing a vest,' and move on. Seems to me like they'd be as common in this world as they are in ours. Not a thing everyone has by any means, but something most people regularly attracted to violence might think of acquiring.
I think this is again a context thing, like the dueling question. MOst of the folk they deal with are gangster and thugs. How many crooks wear bullet proof vests in our world? It happens, but it is pretty rare, and it isn't because they can't get them. When cops raid crack houses, they often find stacks of bullet proof vests. Who was wearing them though, no one, because hoods don't think of things that way. Zoe wears one because unlike most of the folk around, she is ex-military, and is used to thinking that way.
ZenFox42: Oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to argue for it, I was just saying that I was having to fight an impulse of mine to drop a wall of text here mulling over things. It's your game, your setting, your rules. If you don't want a trade union then I'm okay with that.
As for the fees, much as greed might argue for 10%, 20% is closer to realistic, and would help with that feeling of always being tight on cash that is also a common theme in Firefly. After all, if we had a comfortable margin doing the legal stuff, we wouldn't be doing the shady stuff, would we?
Rigor brings up a good point about who would probably go for the body armor. That said, I figure that Mark would have sold most of his Alliance surplus to finance his and his daughters move away from the Core and buying what he'd need to give them a good education. Maybe not what they could have gotten in the Core, but enough to have their pick of careers when they grow up.
And finally remembered to go in and fix that Connections edge. I just put in independent/tramp freighters since that is who I figured Mark would know from his days as an Alliance operative.
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I don't see anything wrong with a group owned ship, and I would think things like that are common. A lot of real world business and start ups begin with all the founding members as full partners in the business, even if they have different positions in the company. The CEO, CFO, tech guys, etc all own the company equally, even if one is "in -charge."
For maritime law, you would probably need an official Captain, for the registration, and to be responsible for making sure the ship and its maneuvers comply with maritime law. Day to day, we might function more as a democracy, with the captain winning in the case of a tie. The captain would also have in the moment authority to make decisions necessary for preserving the ship.
This. Let's just do this and call it done. The main purpose of the Captain Edge is to spend Bennies anywhere, so let's say we all know each other, we all went in on a ship, and have done.
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10%, 20% is closer to realistic,
Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is getting into crazytalk land, so let's re-focus here.
WE actually have a player resource that we seem to be ignoring that maybe we could turn to for some structure here.
1) For starts, transport doesn't work on a "20% paid for logistics." Logistics is (mostly) based on time (which is usually a function of distance for transport).
That is, a day's travel usually costs X, and a day's feed for the crew costs Y. So expenses are distance related. That is, a 5,000 job that takes 2 days is better than one that takes 20.
2) We have access to these numbers. The SciFi Companion has numbers for feeding a crew ($10 x crew size per day) and fuel (energy is $100 x ship size per day).
Assuming we start looking to the SciFi Companion (SFC) for guidance, we could say we have a Large Ship (the size of a small freighter, the smallest ship that has living area for a crew) our Provision cost is (are there 5 of us? That's 50 a day) and fuel cost is 1200 a day. Total 1250.
If we are able to tell how far a trip takes, we can know instantly how long it will take and what the expenses are, and thus how much to charge.
If a trip takes 10 days, and offers $10,000 for it, we know not to take it because we have 12,500 just in expenses.
If a trip takes 10 days and offers $30,000, we know that is better than one that takes 20 days but offers $40,000. (17,400 net vs 15,000 net.)
Or we can hand-wave all the upkeep costs and do without. It just depends on how much gritty realism we want, how much we want to put in, and how much of a headache the DM is willing to endure. ^_^
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P.S. If we start relying on the SFC for our numbers, we can have guidelines on how much cargo we can haul, what amenities/modifications we have and can expand with, and, eventually, how combat goes. (I understand that Firefly didn't do ship-ship combat, but I never thought that was realistic. If you have unregulated travel, you'll have pirates that want to make your things, their things.)
I nominate Saffron for ship's quartermaster and accountant.
Did I miss a (N)PC named Saffron or is this the one from the show? If it's the latter, I already know what Mark is going to be saying when the sudden, yet inevitable betrayal comes.
Rigor - I had considered a group-owned ship, and since you and Atlas agree, let's go with that.
Rigor said : "For maritime law, you would probably need an official Captain, for the registration, and to be responsible for making sure the ship and its maneuvers comply with maritime law."
I've already made changes, and the Captain's Edge currently reads "You are the owner of record of a starship." That accounts for the registration and responsibility, and contract-signing. Now that I think about it, with this in the Edge, do we even need to define whether one person or the entire group "owns" (paid for) the ship?
Rigor said : "Day to day, we might function more as a democracy, with the captain winning in the case of a tie. The captain would also have in the moment authority to make decisions necessary for preserving the ship."
That's basically what Therenger said earler, and I've already incorporated it into the new version of the Edge. Altho I've added your tie-breaking, thanks!
I'd say that to expect any kind of continual income from Filthy/Rich in this setting, you'd have to live in and belong to the Alliance, for access to those modern banking and investments. But the PC's don't. I think the Nouveau Riche Edge is good as-is, since it gives you the starting money from Filthy Rich for just one Edge.
Now that I think about it, in-game availability of the +4 armor really isn't the issue, it's the in-system price-for-performance that matters. If it's priced too low, everyone will take it.
Does anyone else have an opinion on having the +4 armor available only as an Edge (pro or con)?
If we don't use the Edge, I've re-thought the price : $500 means that you can start with the armor *and nothing else*, or take Nouveau Riche Edge, or wait until you can afford it in-game. Similar to SWADE's kevlar-with inserts price. ALL - thoughts?
Atlas - your well-reasoned and realistic description of how to handle the overhead is exactly what I'm trying to avoid (FFF, remember?) :). And in the current setting rules, you get paid by the ton and by the week, so that's already factored in. And along with the 20% off-the-top, I think that's a good tradeoff between gritty realism and ignoring the issue altogether.
As far as space combat goes, your ship has no external weapons (they're illegal in the Alliance), so if the Alliance shows up, you stop and let them board, and if pirates show up, you can try to out-run them.
ALL - since it now covers many more things now than just food, fuel, and repair, I'm going to go with 20% off-the-top.
The Captain's Edge currently reads :
You are the owner of record of a starship. You can spend Bennies on any Piloting, Astrogation, or Repair roll concerning your ship, even if you’re not making them. You are also the one who signs the contracts, and are legally responsible for any goods you are transporting. Because this is not the military, you cannot order your companions to do things that they must obey. The entire group makes decisions, with the Captain breaking any ties. However, if there is a decision to be made that specifically affects the ship itself, after deliberating with your companions, you have the final say. You and your companions share profits and losses equally.
Thoughts?
Looks good to me.
I think having an edge as a prerequisite for certain items is a good idea if you want to restrict access. I would throw in some guns, ammo, and a few other bits of kit too and tie some disadvantage to it to balance it out a bit. That's me though.
Looks good to me.
I think having an edge as a prerequisite for certain items is a good idea if you want to restrict access. I would throw in some guns, ammo, and a few other bits of kit too and tie some disadvantage to it to balance it out a bit. That's me though.
Which edge are you referring to?
Captain edge looks good. Obviously, it pairs really well with the Luck edge but even then there is a limit to the utility. Seems balanced.
Also, with the 20% off the top, I could argue that the game economy can be whatever GM wants it to be and a job that would catch 4000 credits now is worth 5000 so we can pay the tax, which is just markup to justify the skim off the top and we wouldn't be the wiser so why do it, but I won't.
Saffron is Atlas' character, no?
Looks good to me as well.
As for the armour, I really don't have a dog in the fight, as I wasn't expecting to use it, until much later.
Also with my knowledge of the game from being way back, armour is hazy.
I am still arguing with a site for the SWADE rulebook. For making a character.
(I Bought the rules, but cannot access them. I have got a trouble ticket in with that website.)
@Perry: I was referring to the edge that ZenFox was talking about for the +4 armor.
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Emma is Atlas' character.
I find the particular wild ride of insanity that I'll be taking with this character kinda hard to state a definition for.
Suffice to say that the definitions they currently have will prove to be disturbingly accurate, and within the first five posts in will be announced that she's part of the floor now.
"Your right hand will never touch your right elbow."
Then she smiles and giggles.
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Oh right, Emma. Probably don't want her in charge of the books.
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"Depends if it's attached or not, Emma," Mark says as he busies himself with fixing dinner.
Why we hired her to be the mechanic, I will never know.
Made some adjustments to the NPC listings. Removed mention of the Free Traders Union and added in how Mark's daughters see Crenshaw and Chi.