GAMEDAY #8-25: Unleashing the Untouchable - GM Nowruz (Inactive)

Game Master noral

Likewise- definitely different..

Do the temporary HP granted by Elemental Might stack with those from False Life?

Yes

What do we know about Vector #9? Do we even know his size or whether he flies? Wondering as far as positioning around the Forge, since Ranganori is apparently still trying to pull himself together.

You do not know anything about that.

You will be able to roll knowledge checks in case the creature really shows up. :-)

You do not know anything about that.

You will be able to roll knowledge checks in case the creature really shows up. :-)

So the Wizard of Oz, if he was actually the Terminator. Nobody sees the wizard... unless he's there to kill you.

...

(presses the "fix Ranganori" button frantically)

Lichaam has a single scroll of Enlarge Person that will last two minutes, if one of our melee types wants it.

The intent behind collecting the bits of the Opal is that last line in its destruction conditions. If it's just "dust" though, rather than full shards, that's probably going to take longer to collect than we have. And if Ranganori's dispersed storm-form is centered on his former prison, we might not be able to take the pieces right now anyway.

Also... odd question here. What happens to the dust and dirt on an item when Prestidigitation is used to clean it? Can we just vanish the Opal-dust that way? I really hope the answer is no, because that would just be the silliest overpowered use of a cantrip.

Because we only had two rounds of preparation... sorry, Fendahl, you're still Medium-sized.

Removed Air Elemental from the map, since it said it would disappear once the Opal was broken.

*****

GM: With Lichaam's knowledge of magic, spellwork, and genies, how likely does he think it would be for the following wish to be granted well?
"I wish for our weapons to affect the aevarut as if they were horacalcum."

As support for that, I point to the Heart of the Metal spell. It's single-target and doesn't allow Horacalcum, but is only level 3.
The "communal" variants of spells are mostly 1 level above the base spell.
The "mass" variants range between 1 and 5 levels higher, so no consistency there.
The "greater" spells seem to be either 2 or 3 levels higher than the base (with the exception of Grease.)

So a hypothetical Greater Communal Heart of the Metal would probably be spell level 6 or 7. Wish can handle spells up to 8th level.
Could also rephrase it to only include Rajah/Fendahl/Caduceus and their "attacks", if that would help.

*****

Those SLAs... ugh. And of course it has constant True Seeing. And he's mythic.

How tall is this room (and how large is the Aevarut?)

It's worth mentioning that if someone already has Haste cast on them, casting Slow will automatically remove the Haste - no save or SR allowed.
See this FAQ. Lichaam actually carries a scroll of Slow ever since I saw that FAQ.

Lichaam has Conjuration Foil prepared, and will use it (as an immediate action) if the axiomites join hands to summon Captain Zelekhut.

Vector's weakness mentions that it bypasses their regeneration, but I can't see regeneration mentioned as one of their defenses. Was it missed out or did we not get high enough on the knowledge roll?

Sorry, missed that as it is next to hp: regeneration 10 (chaotic or horacalcum)

It also looks like our opponents only have limited natural defenses against fire. Which makes me wonder if they have put up any magical protections against it in order to avoid the fire damage from the Plane of Fire which could be a problem for them if they haven't.

Asked that in discord on the PFS server as that is a valid point! ;-)

It also looks like our opponents only have limited natural defenses against fire. Which makes me wonder if they have put up any magical protections against it in order to avoid the fire damage from the Plane of Fire which could be a problem for them if they haven't.

"Oh maelstrom, the maniacs did it, they actually did it! We need to get there now and AH FOR THE LOVE OF AXIS I'M ON FIRE!"

Those SLAs... ugh. And of course it has constant True Seeing. And he's mythic.

Constant SLAs can be Dispelled, and it takes a swift action to reactivate them - which is a huge problem for Mythic creatures since many uses of Mythic power need swift or immediate actions.

Daathiel will probably use Naturalist (vs Vector) and try to Dispel. And use his own immediate actions for Saving Finale if appropriate. Daathiel did not save a Grand Destiny for himself, but anyone who did receive such a spell can apply the +4 to a CL check (such as Dispel) if they want to try that course of action.

I am not terribly worried about the DR or regeneration. The DR we punch through or use energy attacks, and the regeneration we can always summon something to beat. But if you really are worried, emulating a Major Creation spell could do it... except that Horacalcum is not PFS-legal. So perhaps we are not supposed to be able to defeat its DR.

shaventalz wrote:

Those SLAs... ugh. And of course it has constant True Seeing. And he's mythic.

Constant SLAs can be Dispelled, and it takes a swift action to reactivate them - which is a huge problem for Mythic creatures since many uses of Mythic power need swift or immediate actions.

If you say so. I'm not familiar with the Mythic ruleset. It's also got Quickened Slow, which will be fighting for those swift actions.

I am not terribly worried about the DR or regeneration. The DR we punch through or use energy attacks, and the regeneration we can always summon something to beat. But if you really are worried, emulating a Major Creation spell could do it... except that Horacalcum is not PFS-legal. So perhaps we are not supposed to be able to defeat its DR.

But DR 10 would nerf Rajah fairly badly, and presumably Fendahl as well, and the regeneration would work against all our efforts. While Communal Align Weapon would get around the regeneration, it wouldn't help with the "epic" portion of Vector's DR.

Plus horacalcum showed up in his "weaknesses" line - not sure if that was just to say it breaks his DR/Regeneration, or if he actually takes double damage from the skymetal. If atavismRajah could go from 2d6+8 to 4d6+36 on a claw attack, that seems like a worthwhile buff. The scenario gave us a genie for a reason.

If the GM says that's unlikely to work, though, oh well.

I am pretty sure it does not do double damage. Just a hunch that it does what it says in the text the GM posted. We'll see.

And asking for an off-book effect from Wish is very dicey.

A simple Giant Form II on Fendahl is well within the rules and would add about +12 damage to his attacks.

Horacalcum is not PFS-legal unless you have it on a Chronicle sheet. Getting a weapon to +6 would beat the DR, though.

We've gotten a lot of mileage out of the Efreeti's wishes already. I feel uncomfortable asking for more, particularly asking for the GM to bend the rules in doing so.

If you really, truly, think that we cannot win this fight without asking the GM to be lenient in granting such a Wish, then I will support your decision to use the last Wish that way.

Once we finish with this inevitable ‘minion’ do we still get to face the dragon?

Or was it face one or the other depending on whether we broke the opal?

Definitely the DR/epic is going to hurt….even if Rajah was huge. Physical damage output of this party is not likely to succeed. Hopefully all the casters can nerf it or debuff or this may end poorly.

And asking for an off-book effect from Wish is very dicey.

Usually, yes. That's why I'm asking for the GM's views on it first.

Horacalcum is not PFS-legal unless you have it on a Chronicle sheet. Getting a weapon to +6 would beat the DR, though.

Do you know of a way to get a weapon that high? Greater Magic Weapon explicitly caps at +5 and doesn't break anything but DR/Magic.

If you really, truly, think that we cannot win this fight without asking the GM to be lenient in granting such a Wish, then I will support your decision to use the last Wish that way.

I don't currently believe that it would be REQUIRED, as long as coup de gras works against regenerating foes. Just that it would be a potentially-helpful use of the wish. Communal Align Weapon (Chaotic) would break Vector's regeneration and the axiomites' DR, so maybe go with that instead?

Thinking about the regeneration, one thing we probably need to double check is what would count as chaotic damage from the perspective of shutting it down. I'm thinking about things like summoning outsiders with an aligned subtype where it mentions that their damage counts as aligned in order to get past DR/alignment. Align Weapon would give the weapon an alignment (although the text again talks mainly about DR). One spell that specifically mentions regeneration is Cauterizing Weapon.

One other thing I was wondering about is Isah. Did he look like he was planning of fighting along side us? Is he just there waiting to grant us our last wish? What would we prefer him to do and where would he need to be to do that (e.g. if he's just there to grant the last wish, do we want him to be somewhere where he can do that safely without getting in the way?)?

Isah is going to stay and fight until he is too hurt and will then leave.

I would prefer you formulating a wish that emulates a spell effect which is legal in PFS.

It also looks like our opponents only have limited natural defenses against fire. Which makes me wonder if they have put up any magical protections against it in order to avoid the fire damage from the Plane of Fire which could be a problem for them if they haven't.

Okay, this was asked in the GM thread:

2. Vector lacks any form of fire resistance, the acolytes have fire resist 10. Area D is subject to the Fire Dominant trait, is it intended that they should be taking 3d10 fire damage per round?

The author answered:

2: That's an oversight on my part. Vector isn't inherently immune to fire, so I would recommend that he be protected by something akin to planar adaptation at an appropriate caster level for his CR. John will more than likely need to weigh in more properly on this.

~

John never weighed in so what would you suggest we do?

I would prefer you formulating a wish that emulates a spell effect which is legal in PFS.

Fair enough.

John never weighed in so what would you suggest we do?

I may not be an unbiased viewpoint... but I would say run as written. There've been typos and oversights in other scenarios, and I've (usually) run with the numbers given even when they're wrong. Then again, that could have implications on his SLAs, because Concentration checks, so maybe not.

For the in-universe perspective... How long has he known that he would be going to the Plane of Fire? Just a few rounds? Has he had time to get that kind of buff, or does he have reason to have it up constantly? From those abilities he seems to be a caretaker of the timeline, rather than someone who wanders the planes searching for lawbreakers.

The axiomites are apparently casters, judging by the Spell Focus (Evocation). Do they have Resist Energy available? If so, that could conceivably have been cast right before they showed up.

While I do like the image of Vector, the mighty Mythic creature, being foiled by their failure to account for the possibility fire on the Plane of Fire, it does seem to be an oversight which could have a significant impact on the fight, especially if you factor in the possible impact of the continual damage on the SLAs.

If any of them can cast spells (or have potions/scrolls) which grant fire resistance that would certainly seem to be the neatest way to deal with it (protection from fire could also be an alternative if they are not expecting to be here long).

...Vector, the mighty Mythic creature, being foiled by their failure to account for the possibility fire on the Plane of Fire...

Failure to plan ahead, or just not having the luxury of time to do so.

If Vector only became aware of us when we started breaking the Opal, he's had less than 30 seconds to get a team together and attack. Ranganori is free, but currently in a weakened state. If Vector doesn't move immediately, he could lose the opportunity. That's desperation, not incompetence.

John never weighed in so what would you suggest we do?

I'd suggest you give them some effect as the author suggested. But I can see the arguments either way.

I myself am relying on an author's clarification for the Archivist's version of the Lore Master ability.

But Daathiel will probably hit Vector with a targeted Greater Dispel Magic, on his turn, ideally knocking out three active effects, so it would be good for you to establish the CL of any protective effects they have.

Daathiel would know that this type of inevitable does not natively have fire resistance, and so must be under some sort of protective effect. As well, dispelling the True Seeing and/or Blur would be helpful.

Another question, that I've never seen directly answered.

In PFS, can the summon monster line of spells apply the Entropic template? Because as a Good character, Lichaam would much rather have a chaos Tyrannosaurus than a Bebilith or Vrock.

The template was introduced in Bestiary 2, so it isn't mentioned in the spell description. However, the template itself says it's usually applied with summoned monsters. The versatile summon monster feat (PFS-legal) suggests the template is automatically available. Monster Summoner's Handbook (page 18) says that the templates are available, but just as a note - it's not associated with any character options, and so isn't in Additional Resources.

Herald Caller cleric is PFS legal and can apply the Entropic template.

Otherwise, no.
See James Jacobs' answer

I think your best best would be to summon things like Azatas. Their weapons are treated as Chaotic for overcoming DR because they have the Chaotic subtype. Bralani are pretty good. Lillends's bardic performance stacks with Daathiel's performance.

Herald Caller cleric is PFS legal and can apply the Entropic template.

Otherwise, no.
See James Jacobs' answer

I think your best best would be to summon things like Azatas. Their weapons are treated as Chaotic for overcoming DR because they have the Chaotic subtype. Bralani are pretty good. Lillends's bardic performance stacks with Daathiel's performance.

Thanks.

I know at one point I saw (or was told of?) a rule that forum posts weren't legal for PFS, with a specific emphasis on "former directors". I've not been able to find it the last couple times I looked, though.

And I'm not sure +13 to hit counts as "good" for a melee type at this level, even if you get 1d4+1 of them.

Okay guys, I am going to give only Vector planar adaption at Vector's CL but not to the axiomites as suggested by the author.

Give me a couple of hours and I will have a post up starting combat.

And I'm not sure +13 to hit counts as "good" for a melee type at this level, even if you get 1d4+1 of them.

We only need a single hit to shut off regeneration for a round (which can be done once Vector is down).

Regeneration is not a major factor in combat. Healing 10 damage per round is trivial compared to what most PCs of this level can deal. So it's just a matter of shutting it off once Vector is down (CdG does not work otherwise).

When I speak of Bralani being pretty good, that is in reference to their diverse capabilities- some healing, some damaging spells, some utility, a (Su) attack (ignores SR), and an attack bonus comparable to the other SMV options. They're not just "a melee type". Perhaps in this situation they are not optimal, but they are a pretty good all-around option given the very limited subset of things with the Chaotic subtype that are not demons.

Just to double check, is Vector able to reach Kyron (Kyron is flying 20 feet up in the air)?

If you are flying 20 ft up then it cannot reach you.

Think I might have been doing Greater Dispel Magic wrong for years.
I always thought it prioritized by CL, but on reading it again it looks like it prioritizes based on spell level.

Which is great news for taking out True Seeing and Planar Adaptation.

We know it has these: (CL 18th; concentration +25) Constant—blur, true seeing At will—greater teleport, locate creature, locate object, vision 3/day—freedom of movement, haste, plane shift (DC 24), quickened slow (DC 20); 1/week—discern location, gate, temporal stasis (DC 25).

So if it had pre-cast Freedom of Movement that is the third spell gone; if not, then Haste.

Everyone, remember that Mass Fly is up (with a total bonus of +10, including from the maneuverability.)

Knowledge (Arcana) is used to identify spell effects that are already in place. I assume Haste is "obvious" enough for that?

Identify a spell effect that is in place is kn arcana DC 20 + spell level.

I think you are automatically making that.

So he had planar adaption, true seeing and freedom of movement ... they are now dispelled.

Identify a spell effect that is in place is kn arcana DC 20 + spell level.

I think you are automatically making that.

So he had planar adaption, true seeing and freedom of movement ... they are now dispelled.

Yes, even with the school-based penalty from being a specialist wizard, with the current buffs he can identify 9th-level spell effects of any school. I wasn't sure if Haste could be distinguished like that, or if it just looks like they have a higher BAB or the like.

Just wanted to make sure Lichaam knew Haste was in play, to (potentially) knock that out with a scroll. Not sure if it'd be worth it, though, since all of the enemies have that as an SLA with plenty of uses.

Vector and also the axiomites are hasted. And Axiomites also have true seeing up.

Vector and also the axiomites are hasted.

That's also the name of their band.

I’m currently visiting relatives, so my ability to post over the next 5 days could be a little sporadic (hopefully I should still be able to post at least once a day). I’m also having to use my phone to post and forgot my glasses, so apologies for any typos!

I am about to board plane and similar issues while traveling.

Q: the initiative counter has 3 bad guys but I see 4 on the map... is one of those monsters controlled by the party? thx

Q: the initiative counter has 3 bad guys but I see 4 on the map... is one of those monsters controlled by the party? thx

Are you talking about Isah, the allied genie?

The big red guy's on our side? ok thanks!

The big red guy's on our side? ok thanks!

Checking the slide history says we found the big red guy in D3 and he followed us here, so that's either Isah or the ugliest dog you've ever seen.

@Fendahl: let me know if Fendahl or the lion wants an extra attack via telekinetic charge spell; I can also place Fendahl or the lion on the other side to establish a flank

One thing to bear in mind if we put people behind them is it wold be good if there is enough space left for me to hit the. bad guys with my 10 foot radius fireballs. I do have other options, but they may not be as effective as the fireballs.

Agreed. The flank may be helpful but unless the charge will allow the Lion to pounce it is a wash. What about the efreet going behind? I am assuming ‘fireballs’ would be acid or something else since everyone is resistant to fire here.

Acid looks like the best option for elemental damage as the axiomites have resistance to fire and cold and immunity to electricity. Vector on the other hand can now be harmed by all sorts of elemental damage after Daathiel removed his planar adaption.

Those don't seem to be powers we've identified as belonging to Axiomites. Can we tell what they just did? Was that movement a spell, or some kind of non-racial ability?

@Kyron: CL checks for SR are done separately for each target. I assume the roll you made is for Vector and will roll for the Axiomites.

[dice=caster level check vs SR orange] 1d20 + 14 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 4
[dice=caster level check vs SR red] 1d20 + 14 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 4

Oops, good point! I also spotted I'd used Grand Destiny on the roll vs Vector and then forgot to add the bonus to the dice roll.

Before I post my fort save, it looks like Vector and the axiomites only made one save each vs my spell, but as it had Persistent meta-magic applied to it they would need to save twice and take the worst result.

I was also wondering about the damage that Kyron seems to have taken (-4 and -10 to the stoneskin), is that a copy and paste error as I didn't think he had been hit by anything other than the thing that the axiomites have just done?