I was planning on putting the first few into the shop's inventory. If the party wants something I can make, I'm willing to work at cost. I might make a few on the side for us as resources permit. Rich we are not...yet!
Yeah we'll get there! It's a game of exponential growth and we're working really hard/being really committed with our GP to early growth. That should pay off unless Absalom gets overrun by the apocalypse or something (as it is in one of my other games XD).
Karita: A tip on the rolling math for GP: Since it doesn't require rounding down each day the way capital does, you can lump rolls together. E.g., if you are rolling for 7 days with a +10 bonus each day, you can just do
for 14.6 gp.
I thought of that, Mara. I just wanted to see the totals for myself :) It's nice to be capable of such things so early.
On day 8, I'm going to create a potion of cure light wounds and add that to the store inventory.
Yeah and if it is still in inventory when we go out maybe we take it with us -- again if used we each pay the store back for the cost of the item.
So I will work on the masterworking of the display cases along with a bit of training with our shopkeeper/armorsmith guy. So GM can you give me some stats for this guy (or do you want me to randomly roll him up) so I can figure out how much he can produce while not being a fulltime shopkeeper.
Makes sense, Karita. It's fun to see how well/poorly the different days go.
Zen'zot: What are we doing with the manager, again? Is he making checks or something while we're here? I can mark off paying him from the shop's gold as I think that would be very fair.
I've added 24.2 gp to the shop's store and updated the date in my status line.
Zen’Zot
If you plan on keeping the shop owner around it would be 5gp/day as he wouldn’t take any lower rate. And in terms of skills I’ll drop those in his tagline when I have a sec.
Skills in his stat line. He’s middle aged, so physical stats dropped and mental bumped.
Yeah we can keep him around and will let him generate gp when he is not needed to keep shop ;) to help compensate for his expense. Hope that is okay?
- (50 x 14 = 700) Net Loss: 467 sp
Wow this guy cannot even pay for himself?? Averaged 8 so just shy of average, hmmm perhaps we might need to rethink this. I mean 50sp per day with the potential on average of bringing in only 16sp per day but then how much is it worth to us having someone we can consistently semi-trust? I mean at 30sp per day he was definitely worth it that extra 20sp per day could make him non-viable. So what do you others think on this?
Also does he have a name?
And thanks btw.
Lashley. I’m actually leaving it :)
Okay I actually looked again and it was 2gp/day so that would be 20sp/day. Factor the same rolls but using 20sp/day then see if it’s still financially feasible.
20sp * 14 = 280sp for the 2 weeks it seems you rolled for.
So he earned 233sp earned - 280sp cost = -43 sp cost.
————
Don’t forget everyone that you have 3 weeks total of DT :)
Yeah that is do able a minor expense for someone that we could hopefully rely upon. Oh for 3 weeks, okay I thought was just 2 and dang my math was off in my previous post.
Previous Total for 2 weeks should have been 197 - 280sp = -83sp
3rd Week subtraction: 6 x 7 = 42 - (20 x 7 = 140) = -98
Total expense for 3 weeks for Lasley = -100 sp
I'm not a big fan of keeping Lashley on so far but I can see the reasons for it. So consider me a "mild no" vote.
Mara have we acquired 20 Units of Goods and 10 Units of Magic that we can set aside for upgrading the display cases?
Oh GM I forgot about these and need to know how these affects production of Money, Labor, Goods, and Magic as I do not think it would effect Influence.
Due to his Valet Familiar Zen'Zot doubles the gp value of all items crafted each day.
Due to the Dwarf Feature Industrious Urbanite Zen'Zot makes double the normal progress on Craft checks to create non-magical items. Which I presume masterworking the display cases would be considered yes/no?
Assuming both of those apply that means he effectively multiples his mundane output by x4 and his magical output by x2. So how does that effect his production of Money, Labor, Goods, and Magic? Do I just multiply the end result by the appropriate value.
Also because the 3rd-Upgrade uses 1 Unit of Magic should assume that upgrade is not purely mundane?
So Lashley can craft Armor if you so choose once you get a suit ale workspace for it to help contribute. He might ask for some of the profit from a sale he creates but it wouldn’t be insurmountable.
As far as all your inquires Zen…
Due to his Valet Familiar Zen'Zot doubles the gp value of all items crafted each day.
I don’t want to give you double your GP generation as that seems overpowered to me. So for the week you would get potentially out of hand with easy gold. Granted I could always limit the amount of DT you get…but that defeats the purpose of this style of game lol. I know the design of the familiar is to help with your physical items like swords/hammers/etc and DT is not really lined out in the scope of the Valet mechanics.
I’ll say you gain an extra 25% extra to whatever you roll. So if you roll a total of 100 for the week, it becomes 125 = 12gp + 5 sp (example)
Due to the Dwarf Feature Industrious Urbanite Zen'Zot makes double the normal progress on Craft checks to create non-magical items. Which I presume masterworking the display cases would be considered yes/no?
Sure, but instead of doubling, I would reduce the time it takes to upgrade a display case. Instead of taking 1/3/5 days normally. I’ll say it goes to .5/2/3 days to complete given the feature. It’s not half, but it’s reduced at least to represent the background behind the feature.
Assuming both of those apply that means he effectively multiples his mundane output by x4 and his magical output by x2. So how does that effect his production of Money, Labor, Goods, and Magic? Do I just multiply the end result by the appropriate value.
Also because the 3rd-Upgrade uses 1 Unit of Magic should assume that upgrade is not purely mundane?
I don’t think I need to worry about things stacking or being multiplicative in the vacuum of DT rolls. Now if you actually take a week to physically Craft say a Greathammer, then yes, you’d get progress at x2 from Industrious Urbanite. Now Valet doesn’t give you a boost to crafting time, but the limit for crafting magic items for example.
“Magic Creation rules
The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp”
So with Valet, the limit is now $2000 per day not $1000
Okay totally different topic GM the extra languages denoted as part of class features are those languages the character automatically aquires or those just additional languages that can choose to acquire with one of their freebie languages from their Intelligence bonus for languages?
As far as I’m aware: extra languages are options due to INT modifier. Much like Druids cannot teach Druidic for example.
Okay for instance my character recieved 3 additional languages due to a high intelligence but his cleric class grants bonus languages of (Celestial, Abyssal, Infernal) and his wizard class grants a bonus language of (Draconic). So do I simply add these languages to my character's known languages or must I have dedicated one of my 3 Intelligence additional languages to these bonus languages in order to acquire them?
Bonus Languages: A cleric's bonus language options include Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal (the languages of good, chaotic evil, and lawful evil outsiders, respectively). These choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.
So you would have to spend INT points for them. Or take ranks in Linguistics cause I think you get 1 per point iirc.
Okay thanks for that clarification -- thought that might be the case but wanted to double check.
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Okay another clarification does one get free additional languages based on their Intelligence modifier or must all additional languages come via Linguistics?
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Bouncing back to the Valet you stated that Gold is restricted to +25% but what about the other resources: Labor, Goods, and Magic? Are those still doubled or also reduced to an additional 25% and if the latter does that get rounded up?
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Okay so the amount of time to upgrade a unit is reduced so that 1 day is only a ½ day. Does that application of Industrious Urbanite apply to the other resources as well, aka can I make two rolls for each resource each day when generating resources via Crafting?
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Note not trying to be a pain with these but just trying to clarify how they translate to this mode of game play.
Let's say you have an Int bonus of +3. Besides your racial language, you start with 3 additional languages. The cleric and wizard classes give you additional options (which you've noted) from which to pick. If your Int bonus goes up, since all things are retroactively boosted if your ability score bonus goes up, you'd then get a new language.
Thanks Karita then I seem to be down 3 languages which I can pickup so I will say that Karita teaches Zen'Zot Woodspeak ;)
You mean Sylvan or Elven?
Okay thanks for that clarification -- thought that might be the case but wanted to double check.
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Okay another clarification does one get free additional languages based on their Intelligence modifier or must all additional languages come via Linguistics?
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Bouncing back to the Valet you stated that Gold is restricted to +25% but what about the other resources: Labor, Goods, and Magic? Are those still doubled or also reduced to an additional 25% and if the latter does that get rounded up?
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Okay so the amount of time to upgrade a unit is reduced so that 1 day is only a ½ day. Does that application of Industrious Urbanite apply to the other resources as well, aka can I make two rolls for each resource each day when generating resources via Crafting?
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Note not trying to be a pain with these but just trying to clarify how they translate to this mode of game play.
Valet will only boost the GP by +25%, but Goods/Labor/etc will be unmodified.
If you’re using Craft to generate Goods/Labor/etc I will let roll twice and take the better result since what you gain is a flat DC like 15/20/25+ instead of Gold which is calculated differently.
Woodspeak not Elfspeak Karita ;) so yeah Sylvan which will be part of his education in that language.
Thanks GM I have made note of it and that seems quite fair.
You just want to speak to those dryads :)
What uh.. why would you say that I mean ** BUSTED ** ;)
Zen'zot: I'll have the shop generate those. That construction begins on the 23rd of Rova. How long does it take to upgrade those display cases?
Ok so 4 goods for 40 gp and 4.5 gp generated.
Another 46 gp generated. I've marked all this on the sheet.
I want to do an alchemy show at the end of the week. Just to start 'advertising' us, bring in everyone from adventurers to people wanting simple cures. That was a Charisma check right? If I can use my tap inner beauty spell for it (duration 4 minutes per casting) I can add +2 to the roll.
Otherwise, I'll spend days 9-20 earning gp and investing it back into the shop.
Since I've got the least amount of gold invested, I figure I'll add some in this way. 35 gp to the shop.
Well technically (if the GM is okay with it) we should have 6 of the 10 cases upgraded to Tier-1 as with it taking half the time I could have done 6 the first time and would have. I will just spend the extra coin that I need to cover those 3 extra cases (it seems fair we did not get the benefit but we do not have to delay things longer) -- so 6 days to generate some Coin to cover the upgrades to the cases - 1 day off - then 2 days for 4 cases to Tier-1 then I need the 5 Goods in order to do 5 cases to Tier-2 which will take 10 days. Completing my 21 days as I need to take 2 more days off off to relax during that time
Okay now for the rolls:
result x1.25 = 313.8sp
Create Tier-1 take 10
Create Tier-2 take 10
Cost = 675sp
Plus the previous 225sp for those additional 3 Tier-1s
313sp 8cp - (675sp + 225sp) = -586sp 2cp (Zen'Zot covers this Mara please add this to Zen'Zot's contribution, however you feel that factors in -- I mean totally he is contributing 1,213sp 8cp with the added benefit that we increase your daily income.
I've been calculating everyone's contributions as how much gold comes out of their pocket into the shop. So that's the 586.2 sp number? I'll add 58.62 gp to Zen'zot's contribution.
I've marked off 6 more days of downtime, leaving Zen'zot with 15 days of downtime left. I think Karita and Uwe each have 14 left? We started with 21 so help me make sure my status line accurately tracks who has days left to spend.
I've used up all but my last day, as I await the results of my post. Couple posts up you'll see I made rolls for weeks 2 and 3, so please add the 35.2 gp I made to the store. I'm otherwise waiting to see if we want to play mad alchemist on the last day; we'd discussed some sort of show and I rolled nat 20 for the Charisma check, I don't want to waste it :)
6 days = Generate Coin for Cases
1 day rest
2 days = 4 Cases to Tier-1
4 days = 2 Cases to Tier-2
1 day rest
6 days = 3 Cases to Tier-2
1 day rest
---
21 days
Keep in mind that the GM did say we needed to rest 1 day out of 7 so we really only have 18 days available to us for generating stuff.
Also I strongly suggest we do away with the contributions thing as that is next to meaningless. This is because contributions are a lot more than just Coin as we all have been contributing effort and talent which apparently is not being cataloged. Further yeah I try to figure out ways to improve the shop without spending lots of straight out of pocket Coin. Basically the concept of getting money to work for me rather than me always working for the money. Further Karita should be getting credit for her show and the market price for everything she produces, then there are the intangibles that each of us are contributing that are not being cataloged. Thus everything that is not being cataloged far out weighs the only thing that is being cataloged. Thus the Win-Win scenario here is to not catalog anything except that which we have physically produced and then only to keep track of inventory. This allows everyone to just keep focussed on making the shop more profitable as everyone is definitely contributing their fair share of effort, talent, and intangibles. Aka it is a Team effort and we are working as a Team and while the Quarterback gets most of the glory he is fairly worthless if he does not have good Lineman guarding him.
Uwe wants to earn some more funds. He has spent most of his downtime spending money on influence. If we are taking 1 day off each week that leaves me 11 days worth of crafting time.
Slightly below average there.
Regarding contributions:
Stopping tracking that wouldn't be my first choice but I could be convinced to do it if that's what folks wanted. Mara has put much more than the majority of her gold into the shop, partially because she's waiting to reap the returns of that investment so she can buy one big thing. But if the party would rather just keep returns from the shop split pretty evenly, that's ok by me. Uwe, Karita?
Well you getting one big item is fine by me, that is to say that ends up being a Win-Win for everyone. I am by no means selfish it just seems that tracking the Coin put in and not tracking all the other elements being put into the shop -- like your effort at actually managing what we are doing that is worth something in-game as well but it is an intangible -- seems rather skewed.
What item are you thinking about acquiring I mean as far as I know we are the only potential magic-shop to be had within the city -- or at least in this district anyway -- Now if we are not the only magic-shop in the city perhaps Mara ought to be discretely checking out our competition. Yes/No?
So basically we would need to find this one big magic item would we not? Better yet, what if we just find all the Reagents needed and make it ourselves.
Yeah the intangibles certainly can't be tracked. I'm just willing to assume that we're all putting effort toward the shop. But again, I will go with the party majority, no regrets or complaints, on whether or not we track gp shares.
Regarding the item, it's a banner of the ancient kings (at a pricy 18,000 gp). It will provide a few benefits to me and the party. +4 init for me, increase my flagbearer bonus by +1/+1 to hit/damage, and will boost my inspire courage bonuses that come online at level 7. I'm planning ahead a bit.
I have the least invested into the shop, because I spent a modest amount of money on items for our non-shop adventures. There's not much chance of catching up, from where I sit, but I could be mistaken. So I'd always have the smallest slice of the investment. Will I keep investing? Yes. But what happens next is that those who invest the most get the most say (becoming the House, not the Senate, so to speak). Or at least that is what I fear. That said, I'd need to think about this a bit.
I have posted to progress things as Zen and I can finish up the poppet inquiry whenever they post. Backtracking with not isn’t going to be an issue.
Uwe is fine with doing whatever the group needs. He just needs to divide his time between buying influence and earning the funds to buy influence.
Yes I have been working on the response trying to figure out how best to convey what Zen'Zot would like to say without overwhelming the individual to much but allowing them to understand that there are plain poppets and more exotic poppets based upon the person's desires and depth of their pocket.
Oh I wasn't thinking of having more say in the shop for more investment! Just more return on the gp whenever we start letting the shop pay us in profits. I want to get the exponential growth engine revved up much more before we start taking money out, personally.
IC, it would be a little weird for us to share everything in common. But we can just keep that as an OOC agreement and not worry about translating it to IC. I see three options for splitting/sharing our valuables:
1. Track GP inputs from everyone into the shop and divide GP outputs from the shop accordingly.
2. Don't track GP inputs into the shop and divide GP outputs from the shop equally.
3. Share all valuables and agree on all purchases.
If we don't want to do 1, I think I would prefer 2, maybe? I would feel a little weird spending 18,000 gp of communal gold on a key item for myself but would feel more comfortable if it were 18,000 gp of my own gold.
I think a combination of 2 and 3 ;)
2.5) Do not track GP inputs into the shop and divide GP outputs from the shop equally. If someone wants to purchase something expensive we can all pitch in to help them acquire the item.
Again as I said you getting that magic item is a win-win for the group and I see no reason that we cannot help one another make the group tougher by making each individual tougher.
Let us become a communal group, like an extended family under one roof kind of thing.
Besides once you get the new banner we can put your old banner in the shop to sell it or perhaps one of us can carry it and while they do not stack we have a primary and a backup. Again you getting an expensive item is simply an investment into the group and the shop. Or at least that is how I would look at it. Personally I have no specific ambitions to buy an expensive magic item at this time. I would much rather do the make things and adventure kind of stuff and get whatever happens to come our way. I trust the GM things like that will show up as we go along -- or we will get the chance to make the things we want as well.
Do any of you want a poppet by the way. I doll size or one like woody (small-size).
No thanks on the poppet. I have a cat :)
Poppet serves a totally different purpose than does your cat -- for instance it can carry a backpack or do other things assuming a Small-sized poppet the doll size is mostly for companionship
My familiar is also for companionship, as he is a cat lol
I am all for 2 as long as we are all working towards the good of the shop. If bickering happens for some reason we can always revisit this.
I am also ok without a poppet.
GM where do you want me to post that response I was supposed to post a while back -- in the current story thread still or in here?
Either one is fine.
If the party likes, I can prep nature's paths to try to get us out to this supposed site faster. It lets me treat trackless terrain as if there were a road or trail; roads and trails are treated as highways. Think it's worth it? I can get myself plus 4 others.
Sounds like a solid plan Karita