Me as well. I think I just discovered a way to merge two of my character concepts into one! Breakthrough!
Here are a few concepts I’m considering:
Human Bard (arcane duelist) / Brawler: this kid is an orphan, drifter, survivor, party-lover, and scrapper. The discussion regarding PrC’s will have an impact on this character, as my original vision was to drive towards Dragon Disciple, but it’s not a concept-critical component. I’ll keep an eye on that discussion.
Siberian (or Tian Xia equivalent) tiger Skinwalker: looking at Monk or Cleric (Irori) and … something else. The general idea is that he/she has been hunted all their life. The monk/Cleric levels reflect their efforts to master the monster within. But the character also longs to find a place to belong. Obviously, not knowing the 2nd half of the Gestalt, there’s some flexibility in this idea.
I have a few other concepts that I could easily flesh out, but these are the two my brain keeps coming back to.
Guys, just to be clear... I am NOT saying I distrust any of you or I think that we are headed to min/maxer hell. I apologize if I gave that impression. My argument was from a theoretical standpoint and a basic concept of parity.
Also, I didn't know about the rule that a PrC has to be 'on the same side' as the class from which it spawns. So, shame on me for that.
Moreover, I'm not going to go off in a huff regardless of the team decision. I just wanted to air my concerns and understand how dipping or taking other classes is different from grabbing a PrC aside from the fact that a PrC has prereqs and you can't do them from the get go.
All that said, if we want to play on and not address PrCs, other classes, etc. until it becomes an actual possibility, I'm good with that. Play on.
For what it's worth, I expect I'll be taking just two classes and riding them all the way to the end of the line. :)
Again, if I have offended any of you, I'm sorry. It wasn't my intent.
No offense taken. Instances like this are bound to come up when a group is just getting to know each other!
Front Runners for me:
Mama Cookie! This elderly Halfling has outlived three husbands and is at least one generation older than the rest of her people in town. Now, at the route old age of "none ya bizzness", she is finally ready to go out and see the world!
Barbarian (geminate invoker) / Ancestor spirit Shaman
Bruno Bullrush this ugly, smelly dwarf is out to show all those prissy swashbucklers exactly how it's done!
Swashbuckler / Paladin of Gorum
Front Runners for me:
Mama Cookie!
Bruno Bullrush
Those concepts make me smile... and I have no idea why.
I had a thought of a combo I've never played or really even thought about until just now...
Tattooed Sorcerer (maybe Wild > Sage bloodline) / White-Haired Witch... so at higher levels, he/she likes to grapple baddies with her hair and either throw them into spell effects (enjoy that conjured pit) or unload on them magically while they are fighting the hair. Plus - spells for DAYS.
I'm tempted to go with a real cronish figure but I don't want to steal Mama Cookie's thunder.
The other bennie with WH Witch is no hexes... I never really got into using hexes for some reason.
You could just go with it and the two can commiserate on how badly the current generation has turned out. XD
I'm pretty sure no one was offended, and I don't think of any us feel slighted or untrusted...now where did we leave that automatic...
I agree with you in prestige class is the same as dipping.
"These darn kids today!!"
You could just go with it and the two can commiserate on how badly the current generation has turned out. XD
I smell potential! And the tavern fight when the young bucks give the old ladies lip could be especially fun! The halfling barbarian granny raging out with a frying pan could be EPIC. :)
"These darn kids today!!"
"Get off my lawn! And shut up that dang-blasted bard! In my day, bards sang pretty songs... not all this caterwauling."
Nick, any character ideas appealing to you? I don't play divines often and I'm super curious what sort of combos you might have up your sleeve.
DMy question... let's say your character is arriving in Absolom... how would you be traveling there? Your choices are:
Land - I walk like a real person who ain't made of money!
Land - I ride a horse
Land - I'm in a wagon/carriage like a proper person
Sea - Who chooses to breathe dust instead of salt spray?
And I suppose to cover all bases...
Air - I'm on a magic carpet or carried by angels, mortal!
OR something else I haven't thought of?
I'd like an answer from each of you, either here or in a PM, please-and-thank-you!
Entirely depends on the Character. Bruno? he's probably ride a horse. An unwashed one.
Mama Coookie would ride in the wagon with whatever random group she'd found and cooked dinner for last.
The halfling barbarian granny raging out with a frying pan could be EPIC. :)
That settles it. MAMA COOKIE is the first officially announced and decided character of the campaign! She doesn't really come online very well until lvl 2, and she may have a heart attack after her rage due to the absolutely crazy Con swings involved with this build. But she'll be FUN.
I walk.
What are we doing for starting gold?
I walk.
What are we doing for starting gold?
That's a good question, actually. Take the better suggested of your two classes?
Uh, Absalom is on an island. Or am I missing the joke?
Unless my character happens to live in Absalom, which isn't impossible, ship.
You are arriving in the city itself, potentially from somewhere else on the island or another island.
That's a good question, actually. Take the better suggested of your two classes?I walk.
What are we doing for starting gold?
I'd be fine with the max gold for the better of your two classes, but this is a team decision.
I walk...on ship.
And I vote for max gold.
Mama Cookie
The basics are done. I went with Urban Barbarian so half of my Gestalt wasn't inoperative when I went into a Rage, but I don't really come online until lvl2. That's when I take Spring Rage and my 7 point stat swings really get going And I get Hexes.
She's probably not going to survive long, but she's gonna be a blast while she lasts!
"Yeah, I spent some time around 'em. Aboard the Wandering Duchess a few years back. He's not all there. Creepy too." The gnome slicks his hair back and looks around, before leaning in close.
"Always talking to the dead, or so he says. Says he's some kind of spirit walker, whatever that is. I think he's just talking to himself."
"Good with that axe of his though, and not a bad sailor. He can be handy to have around, if you can stand him. Did I mention he's creepy? Always going on about his grandfather." He shrugs. "And he's a healer, decent one too, but strange. Once I seen him bind a wound with a dead fish. I swears! I'm not making this stuff up."
He glances around again. "I mean he's not a bad guy...a loon maybe, but not a bad guy. Mostly kept to himself until he was needed, although a healer and a fighter is needed quite often on a ship I tell ya. Still gives me the creeps though...did I mention he was creepy? I mean sailors can be an odd bunch, but he takes the cake. Truth be told though, I think some of 'em may even miss the kid."
Yashnarz, the Soul Keeper.
I need to finish spending gold, and a few other things I'm sure, but he's getting there.
Congrats, Choon! 'Cookie' is on the Campaign Info tab!
... And congrats to Nick as well!
Okay, given how the group is shaping up, my brawler/bard is out.
I'm considering the coolest way to help round out the group (both in terms of mechanics and personality). That being the case, Ricky, you got any leading concepts?
Also, Choon, talk to me about Mama.
Other than being awesome in any story, how do you want her to play in adventures? She looks like of front-liney, and kind of divine castery. What's her approach to tight spots? (read: combat and adventure)
Also, NIck. O.O
That dude's beefy. :D
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Yeah, I've been looking at the ones who are already in too. I guess my ideas are starting to trend into two categories.
One would be going all in on skills but helping out with combat, say a bard or investigator paired with swashbuckler or daring champion cavalier. A cheesy, scampish type who aspires to make a living by authoring books about their adventures. Of course that means finding and stoking BIG COLORFUL adventures the paying public will eat up.
The other would be going big on arcane with an alchemist paired with witch or psychic. Less of a clear idea what the character would be like, but maybe something a little more criminally oriented, like a break-in artist or con artist. Blackmail might be fair game... people say the most embarrassing things in letters, which they foolishly put in safes or locked drawers, then pay generously to get back.
Yash is all about spirits. He's a decent tank, not the greatest, and a decent hitter, again, not the greatest. He can heal thanks to oracle, and buff up some. I'm bouncing back and forth for his favored class bonus between more oracle spells (human) or more rage rounds (half-orc), but a lot of his spells will be situational/emergency type spells like remove curse or remove paralysis. Most of his abilities aren't really that great on their own, but he'll get a few extra attacks flying around through different things; spiritual weapon, lesser spirit totem, a bite attack, etc.
He's fast (cuz barb), but slow (armor), and will need to take his time to walk into combat in order to spell up for a few levels. Once he gets Mad Magic, he can cast spells while raged. I also like the idea of the Splintering Weapon feat, since bone weapons have the fragile quality, I can hurl bone dagger that can do bleed damage...but they break.
He's basically the spooky woodsy shaman that everyone tells stories about, except he's still mostly a kid, at only 17. I think I'm going to have him latch on to Mama as his parental figure, but he'll always be asking his (dead) grandfather for something or other. Kind of a survivalist/let's-not-leave-anything-to-rot-that-we-can-use-type of dude. I need a few more skill points to be able to craft bone things, and he has purify food and water so he can eat just about anything. I'm not really set on the name though.
"Grandfather, lend me you axe" - casting spiritual weapon
"Grandfather, protect me with your shield" - casting shield
I don't think you're brawler/bard has to be out. Play what you want. It's more fun that way. I have no idea what RD is working on, but it looks like Choon and I both left skills back on the boat, so that's right up your guy's alley. Bardic performance are always welcome. But other than that, a spell flinger, arcane or whatever, maybe some to handle locks and traps, shrug.
We have 5 gestalt characters. There is going to be some overlap. If we start to step on each other's toes, we just have to take a step back and rethink our tactics.
We still need a face, a blaster or ranged support of some kind, battlefield controller, buffers would be good, another tank wouldn't hurt, same thing for another damage dealer, a utility caster would be nice.
Also, Choon, talk to me about Mama.
Other than being awesome in any story, how do you want her to play in adventures? She looks like of front-liney, and kind of divine castery. What's her approach to tight spots?
Well, first level is going to be very Divine Caster. Until Spring Rage sets in that -3 each to my physical stats really hurts,even when raging. Honestly, I could have gone Venerable and had -6 physical for +3 mental and an absolutely insane [i]10 point[/b] swing in my physical stats while raging, but I though that would probably be just too much.
After lvl 2 she will be a very effective mid-line. She can't be a main tank. She's just not going to have the stats or armor for it. She will be able to off-tank, though. With Hexes I can grant my allies buffs at range or cast. With my rage I can mix it up with decent str and a no penalty to improvised weapons (like a frying pan). She is very support, but not in anything like a traditional support.
So basically I'm taking this opportunity to do something crazy. These classes have no business being together in the slightest. I'm so MAD it hurts. But I'm so excited too!
Once she bites it I look forward to the funeral and bringing in someone else. But now that I've said that, maybe she'll outlive ALL OF YOU just like she did her husbands!
Yash is all about spirits.
You're about to meet a certain old halfling who Gets You
This is partly for my own benefit, but...
Spirit-Themed Abilities
..Haunted Curse
..Ancestors Mystery
..Shadowhunter racial trait - 50% to incorporeal without magic weapons
..Two Minds Revelation - there's just too many spirit voices floating around for him to pay attention.
..Occult Bargain drawback - always has to ask grandfather spirit for his "magic", in addition to the -1 concentration.
..Spirit Totem rage powers (from Primalist archetype)
..Spirit Guide oracle archetype; gain shaman's wandering spirit class feature (most likely tribe spirit) since the ancestor spirit duplicates most of what he already has.
..Ghost Sound - so everyone else can hear the spirits too.
..Mage Hand - to help the spirits bring him things.
Survival Stuff
..Craft alchemy + balanced education means I can use a physical stat in place of a mental one once per day. He's not about measuring this and a pinch of that to mix a precise formula...he just mashes it all together and stuffs in a bag to be thrown at someone later (ie. tanglefoot bag).
..Deny the Reaper feat allows him to make some heal checks as move actions and make some heal checks without a healer's kit...so he just uses what's around. "Here, put this mud on your gaping chest wound, it will help. grandfather says so." "Yes, yes, I know your eye came out but sticking this dead squirrel in it's place will help, trust me."
..Create Water
..Purify Food and Drink
Oh, and then there is raging with the greataxe...you know, to actually make the spirits.
Ok. I'm going to rethink a think or two about Mama. Otherwise we'll end up overlapping pretty bad.
Still going to keep the Spirit theme going though, never fear.
Ok, so mama might be dropping the barb levels. More news as I work through this.
Don’t change it up on my behalf. I just wanted to make sure I got the jist of her build/style.
And RD, I think either one of those would work. Let us know which direction you’re headed. :)
Nick, all your spirit-fu is interesting. I’m wrangling together my own bit of kung fu … a concept that might or might not have been inspired by Tigris from Kung Fu Panda.
Don’t change it up on my behalf. I just wanted to make sure I got the jist of her build/style.
I'm not. I'm realizing that the whole stat swinging thing with Spring Rage is much better done as part of a one-shot, not used in a game like this.
It looks to me like skill monkeys, an assertive caster, a trap handler, a scout, a bit more healing, and some multi-range ass-kickery assistance are in order.
I like Sorcerers and I don't think Eben or RD were thinking about anything serious in the arcane caster field. If I discard the non-casty and squishy casty ideas, that leaves me with the following fun combos:
'Bob' (xx Human - xxxxxxxx) Sorcerer / Ranger (or Slayer)
Senna (LN Human - Varisian) Sorcerer / Monk
Hawk Hargraves (NG - Human) Sorcerer / Rogue
Bob has a good # of skill points, decent class skills, good combat - made better with an animal companion, and a second set of spells.
Senna has the lowest # of skill pts, decent class skills, really covers the inherent weaknesses of sorcerers, is highly mobile to get into to blast range and back out again... I could stretch her usefulness by going ZA monk to make her a blaster and archer.
Hawk has the best # of pts, good set of skills, can do traps and locks, but is the squishiest option. And having your main spellslinger as your scout is risky.
Hmmmm... Eben/RD do either of you have an opinion based on the builds you are pondering? If one of you wants to go 'Rogue' (for instance), I'll take Hawk off the list. Anything that helps me narrow the field would be delightful!
Whups! Just looked over RD's suggestion, an alchemist/x is under consideration... As Eben said, let us know how you are leaning and we will tweak things on our end.
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Oof! Things got really busy after work. Kids man.
Anyway, sorry to keep you waiting but I have narrowed it down to a Swashbuckler paired with either bard or investigator.
I haven't started messing with the builds yet so I probably won't decide the second class until I've compared them side by side.
Here's one thing I'll throw out for opinions from anyone who's willing to give one though. Considering we have at least a couple of melee characters already, and probably more coming, would it be a good a idea to cover ranged?
I could also change swashbuckler to slayer for an archer paired with bard.
No worries, RD, life happens.
Depending what you and Eben pick for classes will kinda dictate which of the three PCs I go with above. Two of the three will be decent to good with a bow. So I'd say figure out what build you'd like to play and go with that. I think both Swash/Bard and Swash/Investigator sound good. Eben and I can tweak some things to make either one of those work and plug any horrible holes in our team's abilities.
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Swashbuckler / Bard it will be.
Question about the Archaeologist Bard archetype, which I'm considering: RAW it never receives any more luck rounds per level, 4 + CHA mod only.
The designer has posted on the subject saying that while this was intentional, he thinks it was a bad decision in hindsight, and that +1 round per level is what he should have done. Would this be alright?
Im fine with that adjustment. The archaeologist's luck rounds always seemed needlessly restrictive to me.
And as of now, I'm fully exploring some cleric/monk combination for my tiger girl.
... which is interesting because I rarely play females or clerics. :D
Ok, Mama has given up her Barb levels for a heavily modified Ranger. I've taken Divine Tracker, Infiltrator, and Skirmisher archetypes.
Divine Tracker gives me blessings to use instead of another companion. (I only need my Shaman familiar,thanks).
Infiltrator gives me tricks to use based off of my favored enemies instead of favored terrain
Skirmisher gives me even more special tricks (which typically don't use a standard action) in place of ranger spell casting (because I'm a full prepared caster on the other side)
Whew! She may not be quite as angry, but she is a Tricksky Hobbit now!
And with Helpful (the halfling version) she's more than capable of making everyone else shine!
I'm good with that adjustment as well, RD. Nick, Choon, any objection?
RD are you planning on taking the 'face' skills since you are a bard? I want to figure what I can leave off my list. As I recall Archaeologist Bard also has some of the rogue skills as well... correct?
Eben, I've done the cleric/monk once with someone whose name you will recognize UU. If you want to stick with Irori and have your girl throw hands only... you are all set.
For a little extra 'zing' may I suggest you pick a God/dess with a different favorite weapon? Then you take Weapon Focus with the deity's favored weapon and Crusader's Flurry. Now you can FOB with the weapon. My girl worshipped Shelyn and flurried with her fists and a Glaive for that sweet sweet second line killing action. :D
Happy hunting!
Choon, do you see Cookie taking the 'Ranger Rick' role as party tracking and expert at the outdoors?
I actually had Survival + Know (Geo) on my girl’s list. She’s a survivor!
Not that no one else can, but it just really fit her theme and story. Interestingly, he has no ranks in Heal. :D
Oh, did ya now? I was building up my 'Bob' (Ranger) option figuring no one was going to take the outdoor skills. I have no idea what modules rely on ranger skills but I figured they could be useful. But if Cookie is doing the ranger role, I can wipe Bob off the list and if RD goes archaeologist and becomes the team's trap-springer, then Hawk is off the list as well.
That would leave me with Senna (who is always a barrel of monkeys to play) and would have good RP synergies with others on the team. I was thinking of tweaking her so she doesn't step on your Tigra's tail...
How does this strike you:
Senna (LN Human - Varisian) Tattooed Sorcerer / Zen Archer Monk
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Yeah, Sabelina can handle social skills, but anyone else who'd like to do it as well certainly can. Sabelina will hog the social spotlight, but doing so takes a lot of energy. She might not be up to talking to all the peasants and rough country folk that need a word from someone after she's handled the people that matter.
After all peasants can hardly afford to buy her books. Some number of them can't even read it's said!
Still looking at Bard archetypes. As much as I love Archaeologist it does hurt a lot to lose versatile performance, and I always feel a little bad not handing out the bennies to the party.
I should have a completed character sometime today.
Choon, do you see Cookie taking the 'Ranger Rick' role as party tracking and expert at the outdoors?
She can, yes. She has good wisdom and sweet ranger bonuses, but she won't be getting favored terrain.
She'll also be taking at least bluff. Maybe diplo? We'll see.