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Yeah... considering the abilities, and how hard they hit, I am hoping ac 29 IS their AC without cover... and that the fire armor thing is part of that... and let's hope it's like raising a shield and they need to spend the action every turn
A 30 missed one of the salamanders. If the fire armor works like a shield, it would not stack with soft cover. Weird, but if you are using a steel shield you only benefit AC when it is greater cover. Shields and cover both give a circumstance bonus to AC.
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I am so sorry...I was looking at a different tag line. The 30 definitely hit. It was accounted for.
Again. Apologize for the confusion.
Ionic's strike did hit and do normal damage to the elemental. Will try to be more diligent in tracking everything in the summary.
Now I leave it to the GM, in theory, grapple requires one hand free. Wolfs does not have hands, but they have fairly good jaws that they can use to grab and immobilize target. If the ruling is that Wolfie can't use Grab action then I would use support ability:
Your wolf tears tendons with each opening. Until the start of your next turn, your Strikes that damage creatures your wolf threatens give the target a –5-foot status penalty to its Speeds for 1 minute (–10 on a critical success).
I have a mounted goblin as well, except fighter/cavalier, and what I have learned from playing them.
Wolfie can not move and support in the same turn since they do not have the Mount Trait. Relevant text
Reference to the grab. Under the command an animal action, there is a list of actions that most animals know. Grab is not one of them. There is a skill feat under Nature that can be used to teach them more basic actions. However, what can be taught and the DC is up to GM discretion.
Command an Animal
Train an Animal skill feat
That being said. i will allow it at my table, wolfie is mature after all. But expect GM variation.
Finally, since you were mounted at the start of your turn, I will make you take the MAP penalty on your throw.
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All of the above sounds correct. I wanted to add that Hopper has Rough Rider but effectively it does nothing besides granting him Ride feat and +1 to Nature to command an animal. I was under impression that it makes wolf a mount, but what it actually says:
'You can always select a wolf as your animal companion, even if you would usually select an animal companion with the mount special ability...'
Yeah. It just opens up for Goblin Champions and Cavaliers to pick wolves since, IIRC, horses do not like Gobos
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Which is fine by me. My Goblin "Champion" of Iomedae loves his "mount".
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Bardyth could attack an enemy then move twice to over the well.
Anyone can just move next to the well and hopefully block it for the turn. The SW corner of the well is in range of a violet tree and those fireballs cleared the concealment.
Unfortunately, it's not JUST the well. Look back to the description, (bolding mine) ""Here is where you must make a stand. "Nelket points to the two trails heading East, in the area you are currently staging, leading to the Farheaven Camp. "Do not let any evil beasts through this area. If they do our camp will be overran." She then inspects the well. "And if they make it in here, they have a direct line to the center of the encampment. Best not let them get to our heart.""
This means there are three separate routes into the camp the enemies can take, and any of them are undesirable (including one that is 45 feet from where that Brimorak just moved to, AKA, 2 actions away)... Well is worst, but not only route.
Further, I am forseeing three AoO's coming in if I move more than a Step and we don't manage to drop one of these Salamanders... Which is unfortunate, as my AC puts their attacks within relative range for a crit, and three crits in a single turn is... unfortunate. Even with my HP.
To put into perspective on damage dealt, ignoring any weaknesses to cold, which has been described twice, but no idea how much. We have done the following amounts of damage to each of the salamanders.
Red: 50
Yellow: 75, (before the cold weakness)
Blue: 38
more than 75 hp, and AC in the high 20's(somewhere around 27-29 depending on fire armor I am guessing)? With polearms, fire abilities, and AoO's? This is why I am not sure how this mission is expected to be completed, when the brimoraks just blind charge the exits. Doubly so at 30 feet per action (possibly the Salamanders too once out of my reach.) XD
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I agree that it looks pretty grim if all the creatures do is move across the map. Even if we stop Red this turn, Yellow can do the same trick and make it off the map in two turns of movement.
Even if Pip uses her Slow spell on Red, if all it does on its turn is move it can still get off the map along the path.
Unfortunately it doesn’t look like lash-out disrupts the movement like an arrack of opportunity does. Herondal’s Red tree will get to attack Red, but it will not prevent the leap.
I think Salliss’s best coarse of action is to switch weapons and attack. Although he could try for the crit with the bow to immobilize, it only takes a single very trivial action to undo that and then Red could move. Better to try and at least hurt the creature.
The only bright spot is that Bardyth is likely to only take two attacks of opportunity if he moves since Salliss’s tree will take one from Blue Salamander when it attacks. That is assuming the Salamander has a normal Attack of Opportunity. I don’t think Bardyth wants to do it anyways, it would just change who got past us.
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SNIPThe only bright spot is that Bardyth is likely to only take two attacks of opportunity if he moves since Salliss’s tree will take one from Blue Salamander when it attacks. That is assuming the Salamander has a normal Attack of Opportunity. I don’t think Bardyth wants to do it anyways, it would just change who got past us.
This... is true... and I could then, potentially, try and drop the red brimorak, and then resume my defensive spot. (35 movement speed, Powerful Leap feat, Boots of Boudning. That gives me a 25ft singe-action leap.) With my 3 squares of reach. I could leap out. Attempt to smack red-brimorack, then leap back north to act as defense against the Salamanders towards the well, winding up pretty much exactly ontop of the yellow plus sign on that map... Assuming their AoO's don't drop me, I'd be in range of multiple healing, and the Salamanders are already described as slow... And it would force them to use an action to approach, and SOMETHING would eat another op from me... This runs the risk of Yellow Brimorak moving through the north east still... and Bardyth getting dropped on the way (which he easily could anyway just from multiple attacks per Salamander...) but if we want to go for broke... this might work... but man, this is a hail-mary idea I just had.
This would also mean, I recommend anyone who DOESN'T want to act the role of meat shield, to be ready for those Salamanders to move in, and they, themselves, fall back. And lay the smack on red brimorack if alive still, or yellow brimorack if not... and once they down. we need to murderize Salamanders FAST. I'm hoping Yellow has 30ish more hp, tops. which would put red at 50 ish, and blue at 70ish... so if we knock them off in that order... with their lower speed and love of stabbing... this might work... maybe...
So, summary, Sillass, try to murder red-brimorack any way possible. You appear to have a flank with the wolf, so I recommend switch to melee.
If you drop red, Bardyth would change targets to charge leap wherever yellow brimorack goes... (either way, the leap for movement is about same as normal movement with all the difficult terrain around for a guy my size... and eating the Ops personally is still better than anyone else besides trees.) and try to drop them as target two... then salamanders in yellow, red, blue order... (here's hoping, that the brimoracks as fast spell-casty types have lower hp... their AC is lower, we've seen that much)
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Alright, my plan is to switch weapons and attack twice. If I can connect both times, that will give some good damage.
His tree provokes and probably shoots one of the salamanders? As a mindless creature, I would expect it to attack blue but if it has line of sight on Yellow that might be better.
I think Bardyth needs to just try to take out one of those Salamanders. Provoking really seems like a bad idea.
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SNIP
I think Bardyth needs to just try to take out one of those Salamanders. Provoking really seems like a bad idea.
It's... not ideal... but the salamanders are 20 speed I'm guessing, from first turn of movement. And me eating the ops, if I survive it, means I will get to smash in a no MAP attack on one of the fast brimoracks AND a salamander... or those salamanders DON'T get to attack, or don't get their armor. Which, we are fighting actions here as much as damage... removing their actions, or laying out more damage... it's the best option I see we got, in my book.
AS for Sillass tree attack. it specifies nearest enemy... so it'd be targeting blue salamander unless red moves closer to it
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Alright, if you are intent on potentially provoking then you really want Pip to cast Hideous Laughter on either Yellow or Red Salamander to hopefully prevent it from getting Attacks of Opportunity.
Spell has a range of 30’. Red Salamander isn’t in range so she would need to give up the Inspire Defense to get them.
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finally gets around to looking at Pip's spell list Yes. that'd actually be REALLY good to drop on yellow. We can't be certian where Red, specifically, ends up anyway... it might wind up closer to Sillass' tree, and be the one who's op gets eaten by the tree. so yellow is the best choice.
Actually. Don't worry Pip. yellow's op will be eaten by Ionic's tree as much as Blue's is, since Ionic is before Bardyth too. Thus, unless they are reading our minds here, Bardyth will be taking one op, which is well within "fine" range.
As such... Since we are fighting rounds AND hp here... Slow is a good option... so is anything that deals solid damage, or deals damage to Red Brimorack. (if the two of you drop it, then Bardyth smacks yellow brimorack... either way. I say we keep to that kill-order plan, and Ionic may be wanting their melee weapon in hand again)
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I agree with the Inspire Defense. Sadly Pip can't Hideous Laughter red and do that... unless Pip decides to Delay until after Red Salamander, to see who to target. In which case, there is a chance Bardyth takes no AoO's. Or we save a tree from one. As the party choice.
"Oh ye of little faith!" Pip shakes her head. "Did you forget that my Inspiring Defense was cast with a successful lingering performance?"
If you want hideous laughter on Red, I'll cast hideous laughter on Red. Is that what you would like? Also, who would you like my tree to heal this round?
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"Oh ye of little faith!" Pip shakes her head. "Did you forget that my Inspiring Defense was cast with a successful lingering performance?"
I did indeed.
Hideous on Red is a good choice then. yes.
As for the tree, I'm thinking Ionic. As herondal is, A) more likely to be at peak efficiency while keeping some distance while Ionic is more likely to wind up in melee. (and this is deffo become an efficiency game) B) Ionic has literally taken more damage, and c) those are the only choices for the tree.
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reads all the details again Huh... I uh... Don't see anywhere that says the trees only get two actions, as they DON'T have the minion trait... and the description says they assist, but that's it... I see Red, specifically, says "both actions"... but that's the only thing I see that even suggests they'd only get 2... And now that I think about it. it wouldn't make sense to give the Red Tree "Grab" if it only got two actions, and, quote, "uses both to attack" because then, as a mindless creature, it would never USE grab, since Grab takes an action...
Guys... i think we've shorted ourselves a few Water Blasts... not heavily accurate, mind you, but still. nat 20's happen
(Unless GM rules they only have two, or otherwise follow the routine exactly as written... In which case. Red Tree will never use Grab, and we can ignore that trait)
The 2 or 3 actions won't change what Violet (or if we had brown, brown) would do. As it is pretty explicit Violet casts on a single target "most injured Ally", thus no AOE Heal, and Brown's only thing takes two actions. (I suppose Violet might cast a second, single action heal, on an adjacent creature as they are defined as a Medium creature, even though 60 feet tall, and the only thing that tag would generally change is their natural reach.)
So this would , mostly, only effect upcoming red tree turn (if both first attacks miss, does it attack a third time?), and if we have missed blue shooting death.
I am by no means trying to make this encounter harder on you all.
The trees, IMO and how it was ran when I played, only get two actions per turn looking at the wording. Two 2 trees, red and brown, have the wordings both actions and use ensnaring roots (2 actions) respectively. Essentially limiting them to two actions.
Even violet tree is truly limited to the two action version of heal. It says heal only one ally withing range. Meaning no burst.
Referencing the attack of opportunity. The basic AOO from both the class feat and monster ability only disrupt the manipulate trait.
Leap only has the move trait.
Finally will see more of their tactics in the coming round, so do not get to discouraged. Additionally there are more details that will come out if they make it to the edge of the map.
Will post an update to the combat after I get settled in at work.
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I am by no means trying to make this encounter harder on you all.
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Finally will see more of their tactics in the coming round, so do not get to discouraged. Additionally there are more details that will come out if they make it to the edge of the map.
Will post an update to the combat after I get settled in at work.
I think we were more questioning how the author thought this was winnable given the (admittedly incomplete) information we have. In a live game, we wouldn’t have time for this much second guessing of ourselves and worrying about how to try and fix it.
Usually the slower pace of PbP is nice. Not so much when you are watching a crash in slow motion.
Thanks for the reassurance that it isn’t as hopeless as it currently appears. I appreciate it.
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I plan to step out of aoo and then have 2 main options.
1. Fear on 4 of them. Even on successful save it helps.
2. Electric Arc 2 of them.
I would say cast Fear. The first reason is I doubt that an Electric Arc would take either creature down. The second reason is that Fear will most likely reduce their AC and could possibly (on a crit failure) cause them to flee. Especially if you can get four of them with your Fear spell, there is a chance one would flee.
Edit: Now you made it hard to decide. Hideous Laughter is a great spell, but only affects one target. I am unsure which is better but if Pip’s Hideous Laughter works then I would likely still go with Fear because of the greater number of creatures it affects.
If Bardyth has a preference, go with what he says. He is in the middle of the creatures you would affect.
I am by no means trying to make this encounter harder on you all.
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Finally will see more of their tactics in the coming round, so do not get to discouraged. Additionally there are more details that will come out if they make it to the edge of the map.
Will post an update to the combat after I get settled in at work.
Usually the slower pace of PbP is nice. Not so much when you are watching a crash in slow motion.
Thanks for the reassurance that it isn’t as hopeless as it currently appears. I appreciate it.
Yes. I do like and loathe the pace of PBP at times.
I think I've learned more from PBP mainly due to the drawn out discussions. Besides, a lot more RP can occur which is awesome.
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Yes. I do like and loathe the pace of PBP at times.
I think I've learned more from PBP mainly due to the drawn out discussions. Besides, a lot more RP can occur which is awesome.
Okay, so only two actions on each tree. I can definitely accept that interpretation, as the writing easily gets construed that way.
With that said, then, how do you view the Grab trait on Red coming into play? (Just so we know.) Since it's mindless nature says it attacks with both actions, means it cannot use an action to Grab.
Do you rule that as:
1. an oversight and they meant improved grab (which WOULD apply to whatever it hit with its AoO, as it's a free action)
2. An oversight, and was meant to be removed from editing, so never applies.
3. An oversight, and that it will replace the second attack with a grab instead?
Not trying to be difficult, just need to know how it will work.
As for spell choice for Herondal? "Fear is the mind killer", and we REALLY want them dead. ;)
Yes. I do like and loathe the pace of PBP at times.
I think I've learned more from PBP mainly due to the drawn out discussions. Besides, a lot more RP can occur which is awesome.
Okay, so only two actions on each tree. I can definitely accept that interpretation, as the writing easily gets construed that way.
With that said, then, how do you view the Grab trait on Red coming into play? (Just so we know.) Since it's mindless nature says it attacks with both actions, means it cannot use an action to Grab.
Do you rule that as:
1. an oversight and they meant improved grab (which WOULD apply to whatever it hit with its AoO, as it's a free action)
2. An oversight, and was meant to be removed from editing, so never applies.
3. An oversight, and that it will replace the second attack with a grab instead?
Not trying to be difficult, just need to know how it will work.
No problem. I am pretty sure a CR 5 would not have improved grab.
But, if, on it's turn, it would like to use the second action to complete the grab, it may. It would just forgo the second strike.
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Yes, the increased chances for roleplay can be great. It can really help you discover a voice and personality for a character. In my opinion, that is the best thing about PbP.
Yeah, that's why Pip pops so much, even for in-person games. Once you've found their voice and personality in PBP, you can bring it to the fore even for in-person games!
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No problem. I am pretty sure a CR 5 would not have improved grab.But, if, on it's turn, it would like to use the second action to complete the grab, it may. It would just forgo the second strike.
The cr3 Snapping Flytrap,a plant even, would like to have a word with you. ;)
But understood, that we will allow it to break the description rule of its tactical routine. Good enough for me. Onwards we go. :)
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No problem. I am pretty sure a CR 5 would not have improved grab.
The cr3 Snapping Flytrap,a plant even, would like to have a word with you. ;)
Sorry to offend the snapping flytrap...lol
Why do I want to break into a rendition of "Feed me, Seymour" right now?
Hmm
Because it is a classic and should be referenced every chance we get.
Good start to round 3.
1 down, 4 to go.
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Dealing with a fussy 7 month old is limiting my posting ability. Should have up soon. In the meantime, though, I did want to make the following clear. Since text doesn't convey body language etc.
Any aggravation I, personally, may have about this fight is not a reflection on you, ZD. Much as Salliss stated, it's purely about author writing in a gloomy situation based on what we know. You, personally, have done an excellent job of fairly adjudicating the situation and its uncertain choices. My text may have come off as otherwise, but I have nothing but respect for your decisions, and anything that may resemble snark is truly a good faith attempt to just laugh off my frustrations on what we can see of the author's choices. :)
just wanted you aware, as I know how bad it can feel when your players are frustrated, since everyone is here to have fun first and foremost
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I appreciate the statement and completely understand.
Been doing PBP since Season 6 or 7 of 1st ed and learned to never assign emotion to the discussion and I refuse to look at them with any emotion tied in.
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I think I've been the slowest to post here, to be perfectly honest.
You are a dwarf, no one expects you to be fast on your feet :P
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@Bardyth - thanks for your clarification, I am also around the boards for a couple of years and try to not read too much from posts if it was not written clearly.
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Hopper actions - I tried to protect Saliss tree, I would hate for us to loose it. Unfortunatelly my rolls were mostly trash, with Salamanders using their AOO, Wolfie was able to get in melee range. But if red decides to attack the tree I can't do anything about it.
However ;) The rules says:
A Dolok feather can be restored to feather form once as long as the Dolok tree it sprouted wasn’t completely destroyed, by using a three-action incantation that Nelket teaches each of the PCs. Restoring the tree to its original feather form immediately repairs any damage the tree has taken and allows for the feather to transform into a fully functioning Dolok tree one more time.
The above does not necessarily mean that only the 'owner' of the feather can do it. This makes me wonder can Pip spend her three actions to restore the tree using her 3 actions? The description also does not say that one has to be near the tree.
The above does not necessarily mean that only the 'owner' of the feather can do it. This makes me wonder can Pip spend her three actions to restore the tree using her 3 actions? The description also does not say that one has to be near the tree.
A Dolok feather can be restored to feather form once as long as the Dolok tree it sprouted wasn’t completely destroyed, by using a three-action incantation that Nelket teaches each of the PCs. Restoring the tree to its original feather form immediately repairs any damage the tree has taken and allows for the feather to transform into a fully functioning Dolok tree one more time.
True. And I'll allow it from anywhere.
It is ultimately Pip's choice.
However, IIRC on how Hideous Laughter works, if she does not sustain it. Red will no longer be slowed 1 and lose reactions.
Decisions...decisions...GM says while tapping on table
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As much as I hate to say it. The trees, to me, are semi-sacrificial. Red Salamander has two actions if Pip maintains HL. That means that it'd have to use its entire turn to attack it, and could miss. Afterwards, if Salliss delays until after Bardyth, his tree would heal salliss tree, and i could move a way to eat that op from blue, especially since bardyth is now in range of Pip tree, and is down roughly as much hp as Herondal, the other choice with similar remaining hp, has at full hp. And all it would affect having salliss delay, is when he and his tree act in that block of allies
That said. Red Salamander IS the farthest back. So if Pip wants to save the tree with certainty. I wouldn't object. Maybe it would cause red to walk into my glaive instead. Lol
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The GM will allow it from anywhere -- which I did not know before I cast my Soothe. But it's what we can do next time.
The above does not necessarily mean that only the 'owner' of the feather can do it. This makes me wonder can Pip spend her three actions to restore the tree using her 3 actions? The description also does not say that one has to be near the tree.True. And I'll allow it from anywhere.