If I were to venture, going from the limited info available in the initial recruitment, Melchesiech looks interesting and complementary to the party, filling some niches that we don't currently have. It would also lead to a good Int/Wis/Cha balance within the party, although not a single full BAB gestalt to be found in the prospective trio.
I don't know--any thoughts bigrig?
I'll have to take a quick look through the recruitment thread, been dealing with an awful head cold this week.
I'll get back with more thoughts tomorrow!
Sorry about that, I'm feeling a lot better now.
I like Melchesiech a lot, and think he'd bring a lot of interesting skills to the party for sure.
Sorry I've been quiet the last few days, I've been coughing my lungs out and loopy on cough medicine (its not Covid, I got tested). I'll try to look that character over tonight, hopefully.
Hopefully I didn't give my cold to you! Got over it today actually.
Well. it took longer than I'd hoped but the brain-fog is clearing. I'm still coughing a fair bit but I'm finally getting caught up on posting and I'll check out that potential 3rd as soon as I'm done.
I looked over Melchesiech and it seems like a decent application, but I have some concerns. First, having a 3 person gestalt party where nobody at all has full BAB seems worrisome to me. Second, with him being LG I'm worried about how easily he might be incorporated into a party with an evil character; I know Gadlan was cool with it, but you guys had sort of an organic connection that made it seem reasonable that he might work with Khry (and, maybe, work towards her conversion/redemption), but I'm not sure how easily we could replicate that with a new party member?
Another thing that I discovered is that if two people both have the touched by divinity trait (as you two currently do) they're supposed to both follow the same god, which you very much do not. And it's supposed to be an actual god (not a concept/philosophy like the Green Faith). Also, in the AP it seems like they're taking it for granted that it that the god will be good (or, at least, neutral but opposed to the Worldwound). It doesn't seem like it matters all that much at this point but apparently down the road (in like book 3) it becomes a big deal.
So... we have a few options to consider. The simplest fix would be: Khry changes her campaign trait, Raban picks a god for his trait (if he hasn't already), and we find a less-good, more martial third. Option number 2 would be more extensive rebuilds; knowing how much overlap your two builds have right now, and maybe having slightly more awareness of the added burden of being evil in this AP, we could pause and let you both rebuild as you see fit (and fits the rules on things like shared traits) then recruit a 3rd who fits the revamped party. The third option would be to start over; you could both build brand new PCs (keeping the same alias if you want, or abandoning it if you prefer) and you could do it in consultation with each other so there's only the overlap that you decide you want. We could also recruit another player before rebuilding so that they can custom make their PC to fit the group too. This would obviously be the most work, but it would also be a good way to potentially build some momentum, which we've been lacking. The final option would be to pull the plug. I know nobody likes losing an AP but we've never really gotten into a good rhythm here (which, admittedly, is largely my fault) and it might be easier to just redirect our efforts into other games. Since this game was part of a GM exchange, I suspect that would mean the end of the other game as well, but I've never gotten the impression that Khry was especially fond of running that.
I don't know, which of those 4 do you you two prefer?
Whatever option we choose, don't think that your Carrion Crown game will end. Just had to get into the rhythm of running it, it'll be fun! I didn't make this exchange based on either game succeeding, would go against the spirit of the deal to not finish yours out.
I'd like to hear Raban's preference before I think about which option to take, however.
Thanks for your patience. We have been hit with a lot of snow over the last couple of days, and between my laptop dying and trying to get work done from home, I have been struggling to keep up at my usual pace.
Lots to unpack here!
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One possible assuaging of the lack of full BAB. As a sanctified slayer, Raban will continue to approximate full BAB. He won't get the iterative attacks as quickly, but his accuracy won't necessarily flag. Sure, he won't have the nova capabilities of barbarians, paladins, slayers, or rangers to boost it even higher, but I hope we'll be fine.
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Alignment is trickier, especially insofar as it matters in the world of Golarion. So far I think that Khry is playing neutral evil in a very conscious way. Standoffish, suspicious, and perhaps a bit selfish/self-interested in a fairly single-minded way. No mustache-twirling desecrator over here. We're early enough that I think the vast differences in outlook haven't had a chance to come up yet. But I do think they'll be interesting to explore.
That being said, having a NG, N, NE party would probably be more balanced than a LG, NG, NE party.
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I was wondering about the restriction on Touched by Divinity. I saw it in the character guide, but it didn't come up in recruitment or initial discussions, so I wasn't sure how important it was. Knowing how important it is and will become, we should definitely fix it.
Officially, Raban follows Trudd, the dwarven god of bravery, defense, and strength (whose sacred animal is a bear). I forgot that I never rewrote and updated my backstory after the last time my laptop died. He is generally polytheistic. The dwarven pantheon, Mbe'ke ancestor worship, and a good healthy dose of the Green Faith. The character guide mentions Torag more specifically, so I could switch to that if it would be easier. But the guide also mentions Desna, who the Bonuwat worship as a janiform of Desna and Gozreh known as Shimye-Magalla. Since the ravener hunter part of the build is rocking the lunar mystery, moving more in the Desna direction would probably be more thematic. If we're dong some rebuilding, I would switch from Trudd to Desna.
An added benefit of Shimye-Magalla would be that, since they're a combination of CG and N goods, it's possible that Khry could go more after Gozreh's Decay subdomain. Just a thought.
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A more martial-bent would be Goliath. Thematic benefits there: even more druid! Three very different druids all seeking to heal the Worldwound could make for a very cool campaign. Vors de Montes right below that would bring a similar capability with a different flavor (and I'm in another campaign with the player). Illia brings some of the Int while being pseudo-druidic with the whole brown fur transmuter thing, though the alignment is unclear. I'd be fine with any of the three.
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Overall I don't think Khry and Raban have a tremendous amount of overlap despite both being druids. She's more ranged, and I'm more melee. We're sort of splitting face duties. I'm more of the librarian (thanks to Halcyon Druid), and she's more of the sneak. The major things that we're currently missing (a few knowledges, spellcraft, UMD) are things I plan to pick up as we go. The major thing missing that doesn't seem feasible for either of us to convincingly grab is Disable Device. But as a sanctified slayer, I can grab a slayer talent at Level 8 and start handling traps and locked doors if we don't want to just smash our way through.
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Overall, I'm leaning towards Option 1, but I'm fine with doing some rebuilding re: Option 2. I'm rather fond of this curious combination of having my cake while eating it, too. The biggest stuff that Halcyon Speaker gives up are the animal companion and wild shape. The lunar mystery gives both of those back (eventually). So I feel like an archdruid who's part druid, cleric, oracle, inquisitor, wizard, ranger, and rogue. I'm really excited for how this character could grow into a hierophant.
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I will tentatively shift from Trudd to Shimye-Magalla and, following James Jacobs' guidance here as a jumping off point towards domains, alter my 1/day enlarge person SLA from Trudd to Longstrider (Desna's Travel domain). I may also shift Olapa from a bear to a tiger. I chose bear because I was going with Trudd, but without Trudd's sacred animal, I could choose any animal. Why not tiger?
Alright, 1 vote for option 1 or 2. So, I guess the big the question is whether Khry would rather just switch traits (and maybe use the dual path mythic feat to still get some hierophant goodies while gaining the bonus for your path matching your trait) or if you'd rather make more changes?
Edit: Or, I guess, if you're okay with being the one to make changes... if that's a deal breaker for you I guess we'd have to revisit options 3 and 4?
Ping to bigrig! I know I'm verbose, but any thoughts?
Hey, guys, been locked out of my Paizo account for a bit, will have posts on my thoughts up tomorrow. So sorry for the wait!
Hopeful bump.
Yeah, no pressure, Khry, but I think we're waiting on your decision about if/how you'd like to proceed?
Okay, sorry, I'm here. I think I would prefer to keep Khry as intact as possible, and vote for me changing my campaign trait and finding a less-good oriented martial frontliner.
I really enjoy the dichotomy of the two wildly opposing druidic outlooks, and would like to go through the journey of Khry learning that Urgathoa doesn't have her best interests at heart and the act of redeeming her currently very evil path to one that is...at least less evil.
In that regard, I wouldn't mind a non-paladin Good character, as they are more lenient in the way they can interact with Evil characters. A cleric, warpriest, inquisitor, etc.
What good news!
For a third, I would probably push for Goliath the most. Strong martial, and another druid, giving us thematic unity. But blight druid, halcyon druid, and goliath druid are all going to play very differently. Combine kineticist, inquisitor, and barbarian on top of that, and I think it's a decently-balanced party.
I'll actually finish writing up an updated profile for Raban, complete with some changes, and post here again when it's all done.
Sounds like a plan, Khry.
I had a thought about a potential third... I'm not necessarily opposed to Goliath if that's definitely the way you both want to go (and they're still interested in playing that character in this game), but what about Pace's player from our other game? I don't know if he would be interested or not but if he is it might help us all settle into a rhythm with the two games? Let me know what you think?
I would be down with Joe!
@Khry- no pressure, but I'm kind of waiting on your feedback before I (potentially) ask Pace's player if they'd like to join us here?
Oops, sorry, thought I had posted. I am more than happy with Pace, feel free to ask him!
He’s in. I’m going to send him a link and some guidelines for building his character this morning and he thinks he’ll have at least a rough draft up this afternoon.
Awesome!
Here are the official character creation guidelines that we started with:
Gestalt
25-point buy
Core races only, no alternate racial traits
Any official PF class (use Unchained where applicable)
Three traits, one of which must be from the WotR player's guide
Start with the higher average wealth between chosen classes
With you, we nixed the "no alternate racial traits" and added background skills. Any other guidelines you want to implement?
Counting coins alone at the table of a less seedy tavern than he would have liked, Durok motions the old woman nearby for a refill on his drink.
Even less than last time. the dark skinned mercenary thinks. I'll never get rich guarding rugs and rummage.
Putting the coins back into the pouch, he downs the new drink in one shot and walks out into the rainy night.
Wonder if there's anyone out there that could use help looking for trouble. he thinks, watching the crowds pass by.
Greetings! Arcane duelist, brazen deceiver, and wit could be fun.
@Durok- any idea of an ETA for when you might be ready to go?
@Khry- have you had a chance to figure out your new campaign trait at all?
That's a fair question. I'm gonna say tomorrow night by 10pm. Ready to roll.
Give me until tomorrow to come up with some background and calculate out the skills. ready to go otherwise.
I wouldn't mind switching to the Exposed to Awfulness campaign trait, as long as I'm not locked into the Guardian mythic path. I imagined Khry as a Hierophant, but I haven't decided yet.
As I understand it, the campaign traits don't lock us into a particular mythic path so much as encourage them through story beats. I could be wrong.
That or Stolen Fury both sound appropriate for Khry's background, as you've described it.
The traits don’t lock you into a specific path, but you do get a special bonus if you chose the associated path (some of which are pretty significant). That said, you do always have the option to take the dual path mythic feat… mythic feats are in short supply, but that is a pretty solid one, especially in a gestalt game (so, you could do something like guardian/hierophant and get the best of both worlds).
So, no pressure, but I believe we're still waiting on Khry's trait change and confirmation from Durok that he's all finished up?
Ready for some profitable danger!
Oops! My apologies, confirming Exposed to Awfulness. Fits well into her background story.
Sorry my posting is a bit slow right now- I (and several family members) have Covid. None of us have very severe symptoms but its causing mayhem with our schedules and routines. I'll try to get us moving again soon!
Feel better! I remember when I had it back when it first showed up, was rough for sure.
I am better now, thank you all for your patience. I'll have a new gameplay post up today!
Sorry. Despite yesterday being my day off, I spent most of the day dealing with garbage at work (the joys of salaried employment). I’ll try to get a post up this evening.
No pressure but I believe we're waiting on responses from Durok, whenever you/he gets the chance.
In retrospect, I probably should have just rolled initiative in the reveal post. Sorry. As it stands, I have a full round of actions from Durok and half a round from Raban, so I'm just going to let you 3 act first and then it'll go. So...
Durok can take a swift or free action, if he wants (and is able)
Raban still has a standard action, and possibly any free/swift actions
Khry still has a full round worth of actions to post
You okay, @Durok?
Sorry, I misread it and didn't think I was up.
I'm pleased to say that tomorrow morning, I will be leaving for a trip to Italy with family for three weeks. I will check in when I can, but the days will be quite full. Please feel free to bot me to keep things moving. I'll talk to you all again soon!
Bump for Khry to post.
oops! Posting now.
Apologies for being so slow to respond to the new posts. It was a busy weekend and my office hours have changed which disrupted my usually daily rhythms. I’ll do my best to respond to new posts more quickly moving forward, and we’ll use the rule of two, as discussed in the other game, although I generally base that off of stated actions rather than intentions (“Durok waits for the others to be ready and then heads down the passage to the left” IC, rather than “we’ll go left when everyone’s ready” ooc, please).
I’m not sure what’s going on with this (gameplay) thread… I posted an answer to Raban’s question either Friday night or Saturday morning and it apparently got eaten, now I just posted again a couple minutes ago and the list of recent posts says that it posted but it still doesn’t show up when I check the thread. I’ll check it again in a little while and if it’s still not there I’ll guess I’ll see what happens if I post from a different alias?
Paizo has been eating a lot of posts lately...
It looks like my new post is finally visible. Sorry for the hold up.
Pinging Durok and/or Khry: do either of you agree with moving briefly backwards to the original split that we didn't explore?
Yes, sorry. Been crazy at home. Meant to post a go ahead but never got time