Kintargo's Ravens; a Hells Rebels Game.

Game Master Tark the Ork

Doot.

Here's the characters for this game in case it needs reminding.

Beorn the Divine
Mirror Universe Borgan
Trevor86’s crazed dwarf
Variel
Tiny
Paquen

DOT!

Dot! Thank you for picking me! :) I'll do my best to keep up with the brainstorm tonight, but sadly I live in GMT +1, and only have a couple hours of "being awake" left.

I'll probably have to catch up a lot of things tomorrow!

Thanks Tark! I'm here!

Dot. Hey everyone. Congrats to all who made it!

Hey everyone, and thanks for the invitation, Tark! Glad you found the crazy dwarf concept entertaining :) I'll do my best to keep him that way.

Just to ask around here for ease of reference, what is everyone planning to play mechanically? From looking around briefly here and in the thread I see barbarian, bard and rogue I believe?

Edit: Ah, and magus I see :)

I am currently planning to make Mr. 'questionably sane yet crafty' Dwarf an infiltrator inquisitor of Cayden Cailean, low cha, high wis with the conversion inquisition (all his social skills key of wisdom). Probably a sanctified slayer as a second archetype to emphasize his military background and goal of revenge. Though, there were some other class builds that can work for a similar feel: a cleaner slayer, a champion warpriest, a seperatist cleric going into evangelist... there are options :) just let me know if anyone feels strongly one way or the other.

Mirror Universe Borgan is a pally I believe.

I believe this is where we're at with classes at this time.

Variel - Magus
Paquen - Investigator (Empiricist)
Tiny - Rogue
Beorn - Bard
Crazy Dwarf - Inquisitor(?)
Borgen - Paladin (Shelyn)

How are we feeling about this?

My 2 cents:

1. Normally I'd worry a bit about a Paladin since this AP does require a fair degree of sneaky underhandedness. But Shelyn is still a legal religion so he may get something of a pass, which means he can be more aboveboard than would be the case with other Paladins. On the other hand, we're maybe a little light on healing and condition removal so a Paladin is very welcome from that perspective.

2. Do we feel like we need or want a full arcane or divine caster? Paquen could shift a little in class choice and still be Paquen. I could fashion and Oracle to work I think, or an Arcanist, which would be the easier of the two I believe. On the other hand, if we think maybe we're in need of some more martial talent, Paquen could shift to Avenger Vigilante to stiffen the front line.

Honestly, I think the current lineup is pretty well-balanced. Paladin + Magus + rogue is already pretty solid on martial power, especially added with bard buffs. While I haven't played with investigators before, I thought they were also pretty decent in that area? And Dwarf guy will either be an archer or a melee combatant with some decent to good martial power too.

With bard + magus, I'm also not that worried on missing a full arcane caster. Sure, we miss some control and get haste a bit later, but it's at least decent, and we will have teleport spells for lategame.

I guess the most glaring weakness would be missing a full divine caster. Though with inquisitor + paladin and possibly the investigator with the infusion discovery (I'm not entirely sure if that's possible), we should be fine on condition removal. And given the path's theme of covertness ans subterfuge I think it's more important that everyone is good at that area, which full divine classes don't tend to be.

I agree with everything you said Trevor. I'm pretty comfortable with the current. I just figured I'd throw those things out to see where people are at. I do think cleric could have a rough time due to low skills, which is why I suggested an Oracle. It's possible to work around the weakness better with that class.

That said, we do have several characters who can do bits and pieces of the healing including Paquin since many of the relevant spells are on the Alchemist list.

Investigators do eventually become pretty good in combat, but the lower levels are painful. Until studied strike comes along at level 4 Paquen won't be much help in that area.

True, they were some solid points to bring up and discuss.

Well, I'd say pick what you believe is more fun to play between the oracle and investigator, then :) Only you can judge that, and that benefits the campaign the most in the end!

I'll be sticking with Investigator all things being equal. I'll probably dip a level of Swashbuckler or Brawler to help some with the melee issues.

That said, if people really do think there's a need we're not covering I'd be willing to change to another class if it would help.

Hi guys, thanks for picking my paladin as well GM, had fun completely mirroring my first submission for Hell's Vengeance. I tend to think more in traits and feats fitting my character, so this brainstorm is good for me to see what could be needed in the team as well.

My initial thoughts for my paladin are with archetypes that fit his theme of a dark past. Gray Paladin and Tortured Crusader, seeing the need of more healing, Tortured Crusader doesn't fit that bill.

Luckily Gray Paladin suffices reasonably well concerning the pretend to not be a paladin way, so at least I've got that covered somewhat.
It's a shame to lose Divine Grace though.

If need be, I could take Skill Focus (Disguise) as my 1st level Feat and get an extra skill point to invest in Bluff/Diplomacy.

Yeah, it hurts to lose Divine Grace. But no aura for Gray Paladin might be good. I'm pretty sure the looser code will be good. Aura of Subtlety is kinda far off but might be really handy.

Well I intended to go the Scarseeker route eventually. That would increase my healing potential, but then I wouldn't get that specific aura.

Edit: I might not need the Fed-up Citizen campaign trait then. Initially found it appropriate to conceal my faith, but my archetype does that already as well.

Could pick the Natural Born Leader if nog one else picks that one.

Adding my thoughts to the discussion...

First and foremost I always support people playing a character they want to play that is fun and interests them versus playing a character to fulfill a certain niche the party may need. That being said I have no problem altering Variel to aid the group dynamic either. I was originally thinking of taking the Kensai archetype. However seeing that there is no full arcane caster I can easily lose the archetype and go straight magus. The archetype gives me some more melee power but at the cost of a lot of spells. Switching over would also free up a feat in not taking scribe scroll.

I don't worry too much about needing healing as it rarely happens in combat unless someone is literally about to die that round. As long as there are wands of healing available we can heal up after combat. Paladins are great for removing conditions with lay on hands so many of those are covered as well.

I agree that I do see the rogue/magus/paladin combo being very lethal as a front line group. Put the rogue in the middle with gang up and let the sneak attacks pileup.

I do have the natural born leader trait to offset my horrible charisma. Variel has a bit of a stutter when he gets nervous.

On healing, technically anyone can be a great healer just by taking the healer's hands and incredible healer feats. It comes online at level 5 at fastest. And though healing in combat gets talked down on a lot, full-round actions to heal someone for (Heal skill result) HP for (character level) times per day regardless of class is really solid imo. That's pretty good burst healing and adds hundred of hp of free healing daily. And there's the skill unlock for the heal skill to make it even better later.

While we're brainstorming, and given that Borgan, Paquen and Trevor all seem to be really experienced players (wow, guys!), I've been wondering whether Litsy would need tweaking or not.

I didn't really choose a combat-oriented archetype in order to focus on Charisma and deception, because I preferred to play the latter. But now that I know that Local-Celebrity-With-18-Charisma Beorn's in the team, I worry about Charlatan talents ending up not being that useful.

Do you see an overlap as well, or is the current configuration working? Would a more sneaky-sneak Rogue archetype be better for the party? I have to be off to bed after this post, but I'm really looking forward for advice on this issue.

____________________

Regarding RP, I've been trying to think of how Litsy could have ties to some of the characters in the group, as the GM suggested that they might already know each other a little. I've had some ideas so far:

Beorn: Rather unsurprisingly, Litsy really likes theatre. I think that one of her childhood dreams would have been to become a world-famous actress, before she realized that, you know, you need to pay for proper training. I'm not sure how she would feel about opera, which is well above her means. But surely she knows that he's a promising singer who has often performed on stage, a and that what should have been his big breakout was cut short by the new mayor.

Paquen and Borgan: A tiefling and a half-orc tend to stick out. Are these two police? They don't dress like policemen, but they do seem to pay a lot of attention to criminal activities. Maybe they're informants? You can't trust informants.

Crazy Dwarf: I feel like she would know who this guy is, simply because you cannot not know. I don't know if they'd ever have talked, but anyone who is this angry about House Thrune immediately gets closer to her good side.

Variel: No particular idea of how they could have met, though I can see how Variel's story of losing his wife and child could tie in to Litsy's background as an orphan whose family was also killed by House Thrune.

I must say I find the idea of Variel, Litsy and The Crazed Dwarf having a solid rant about House Thrune and their shared traumas over some drinks terribly amusing...

But it's all just suggestions! :)

EDIT:

Could pick the Natural Born Leader if nog one else picks that one.

Litsy's got it, but we can be two to have it- or I can select another one if you and Variel think it's best for your respective characters!

Bard all the way here for buffs and diplomacy. :) I can choose healing spells to help with healing and with Arcane Strike and later on, heavier armor, I can lend a hand with combat

Hi guys, thanks for picking my paladin as well GM, had fun completely mirroring my first submission for Hell's Vengeance. I tend to think more in traits and feats fitting my character, so this brainstorm is good for me to see what could be needed in the team as well.

My initial thoughts for my paladin are with archetypes that fit his theme of a dark past. Gray Paladin and Tortured Crusader, seeing the need of more healing, Tortured Crusader doesn't fit that bill.

Luckily Gray Paladin suffices reasonably well concerning the pretend to not be a paladin way, so at least I've got that covered somewhat.
It's a shame to lose Divine Grace though.

If need be, I could take Skill Focus (Disguise) as my 1st level Feat and get an extra skill point to invest in Bluff/Diplomacy.

Shelyn is a legal religion in Cheliax. She tends to be everywhere. I think there are some Shelyn specific paladin vows worth looking at before you make any serious mchanges.

@Variel: I don't think you'd need to change anything unless you want the extra spells. I've seen a couple of Adventure Paths here or there (Offhand I'd name Rise of the Runelords and Mummy's Mask) where it really helps to have a full arcane caster, but most of the time it's not really needed.

@Tiny: The only thing you are giving up with Charlatan is the trap stuff. Paquen has it too and I don't mind covering traps. If you want to play a more social skills oriented Rogue I say go for it! The only thing I'd suggest is maybe switching your CON and INT scores unless you have the 14 INT for something specific you have in mind. Rogues tend to need the extra hit point and Fortitude boost more than the extra help with skill points. Also you'll be saving a bunch of points that would be going into Disable Device if you're not doing traps.

Yes, Tieflings stand out. But they're not uncommon in Kintargo and tend to be clustered in the Red Shingles (I believe is the name) neighborhood, which is sort of a slum.

Paquen isn't dottari (police/city watch), but will do their job to an extent in her neighborhood since they tend not to. She's not a head basher, but she will solve cases and take the evidence to the dottari to try to get them to make the arrest. She's less a vigilante type than an oddball social worker, trying to help out neighbors when there's no alternative. The real social service and advocacy organization for tieflings is the Cloven Hoof Society, headed by Strea Vestori, who Paquen looks up to. She has the Star Struck campaign trait with Strea selected.

@Tiny Aw, thanks :) Though I wouldn't call myself overly experienced, exactly. I'm afraid I don't know that much about rogue archetypes. I'd second Paquen and variel here in that you should play what you think is more fun to play and roleplay. And, just cause some people here will be good in social skills doesn't mean there's no point in having them as well! Maybe you can sneak in somewhere alone and have to talk your way out of something by yourself. Maybe you have a great idea to cut into an ongoing coversation that's going bad. Or maybe it's just more fun to not wait on the party spokesperson all the time to do the talking for you :)

I'll get back to the roleplaying hooks tomorrow after I've slept. I imagine this dwarf guy would definitely like to share some anti-love for house Thrune over drinks, though :) He's both a dwarf AND a Cayden Cailean worshipper!

Edit: Looking at the ability spread, I'd probably try and reallocate stat points to get 14 con and 12 wis. That's mostly to slightly help your saving throws as a rogue, but not necessary.

Oh, are we using Background Skills?

Have fun with it Tiny and there are plenty of times where redundancy in the group is fine. You can never have too many people with charisma able to talk your way out of a problem. And in this campaign more is better than less.

Still considering options for Kensai or not. Neither are bad options and I like them both. Either way may redo feats as I forgot that at training rank 9 we get a bonus feat (toughness) already..

Variel is a follower of Cayden as well so everyone drink up! Tiny if we do know each other in such a way then I can use that for the first protest reasoning. Going with a friend!

Oh, are we using Background Skills?

No.

Being a rogue in a party with a bard and an investigator is a hard life. Between the two the poor non magical, non free d6 on damn near every roll rogue has a hard time feeling good at their job once they get rolling. But that's why there's time like this to consider what you can do, diversify, and potentially change class if you can keep the concept intact.

I'm working on the background stuff and first post to be done in a day or two. So get the sheets finalized, toss in your obligatory BPA's and lemme know so I can look at them.

@Tiny, I don't see Borgan as a policeman. So I don't think that's the way he goes about things. Paying attention would be more focused on activities performed by the local law enforcement that helps him decide to decide enough is enough.

Though I do see him as knowing Beorn as Borgan also loves theatre and song. Perhaps Tiny and Borgan have also met before, after or during one of those performances.

GMT + 1 here, I will update my backstory tonight. Expect smaller posts during the day and larger posts in the evening.

In short, Borgan has left his former home on the other side of Cheliax, due to an overzealous foster father that is a former Hellknight. He has lived in Kintargo for quite some time already. A bit more than 12 years.
He paints to cope with his problems from the past, but he is not that accomplished in it yet. Also the theatre and other artists make him for get the pain and help him see the beauty that still exists in the world.

Thanks for your advice, everyone! I hadn't considered the fact that Litsy's abilities overlap with both the investigator and the bard. I'm starting to get really worried that she might feel superfluous.

I have to take some time to study rogue archetypes more in depth. Alternatively, I was thinking of maybe turning to the Ninja class. It's close to the rogue, wouldn't feel like a complete rebuild and rewriting of the character, allows Litsy to use poison, and has a nice ki pool that relies on Charisma.
Mechanically, I think it would basically turn her into a rogue/monk/assassin combo, which would be less of an overlap with both Beorn and Paquen's roles within the party. I could switch her Constitution and Intelligence stats up. Of course, that would move her away from her original character concept, and I'd have to think of an RP reason why she would a ninja instead of a rogue. But it's probably doable.

What do you think? Would a ninja work better than a Charlatan within the party?

As far as Rogue Archetypes go, Agitator and [urlhttps://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/discretion-specialist-rogue-archetype/]Discretion Specialist[/url] might work well in the AP. Too bad they don't offer the same networking talent as Charlatan, but nothing's preventing Litsy from taking Black Market Connection anyway.

Evidence Disposal is rather awesome in a campaign where the party has to hide bodies.

There's also the eldritch scion rogue archetype. That gives up slight sneak attack progression and a few rogue talents, i believe, but you get a full spellcasting list as a magus iirc. You could twke the controland utility magus spells while the actual magus takes the damage spells or such?

If anything, it's a really solid utility tool box for a rogue and you buy back some of the lost sneak attack progression with the accomplished sneak attacker feat. Probably also more lore friendly than ninja?

If you're worried about overlapping too much and you want to stick with Rogue for sure, I think the Discretion Specialist archetype is the one that works best to give you your own niche. Agitator is fine too, but it shifts toward bard a bit with it's crowd influence focus.

Trevor's suggestion to look at Eldritch Scion Rogue is very good. I'd also add the Archaeologist Bard to the list. Yes, it's a bard, but it's self buffing and set up more like a lucky rogue with spell casting than a regular bard. I've played in parties with two characters using the bard spell list. Since bards are spontaneous casters they only get a small portion of the available spells, so with some coordination the spells they cast can barely overlap at all.

Another option you could consider is going with Rogue, see how you're liking it for a few levels, and then multiclass into something else if you're unhappy. Have you looked at Slayer before? It's a Rogue/Ranger combo class with d10 hit points, full BAB, good skills and skill points, and access to ranger feats , rogue talents, and some unique slayer talents as well. Slayer also gets sneak attack at a slower progression than rogue.

So, if you take Charlatan or Discretion Specialist Rogue, notice that by 3rd or 4th level respectively you've picked up all the abilities those archetypes have to give you. You've also gotten the core set of Rogue abilities. with Dex to damage on a weapon and Debilitating Strike at 4th level.

At that point you could check in with yourself to see if you're satisfied or whether you want something different. Slayer makes you much more capable in combat while still allowing you to gain Rogue abilities like sneak attack and rogue talents. If you want a Slayer who can do what the Discretion Specialist Rogue does, take a look at the Cleaner archetype for Slayer. I'm playing a Slayer in Curse of the Crimson Throne and having a blast with it. My character looks respectable alongside the barbarian in combat and also handles all the rogue tasks the party needs done.

Your current ability scores work fine for a Dex based Slayer (although I'd still drop INT by 2 to raise either CON or WILL.

So how would such a thing happen in game terms? Easy really. Tiny has exposure to other characters and potentially NPCs who can train her to handle weapons more effectively. It's not a break with the past, it's growth in light of new opportunities.

If you don't like Slayer so much or you want something more different, you could transition to Swashbuckler as well with your current ability scores.

@Borgon. Knowing each other sounds good, I don't know how much but at least in passing.

Ah yeah, good point on the slayer! Definitely a martial powerhouse. If you have four rogue levels too, slayers can take (at least?) One of the best rogue talents later on with their advanced slayer talents (double debilitation on a slayer is painful). It's a fairly popular build i think. And if you want to go that way, Crazy Dwarf has the slayer abilities from his inquisitor archetype, so he could be a tutor for Tiny if she so desires.

So after much thought I have decided to scrap the Kensai archetype and go straight magus. This gives me a lot more flexibility with spell selection (spell recall), feats, traits, and heavy armors. As such I have an extra feat now to select. I love the spell recall ability. I am trying to decide between extra traits, extra arcane pool, or a better option that you guys suggest. If someone else takes stealth synergy I would be up for that as well. Lastly since we have bonus feats thanks to not needing power attack I could go with a story feat and take Vengeance!

I also have 1-2 extra skill points to spend and was curious what everyone's thoughts were. Intimidate is a class skill but that may be covered by everyone else lol (bard, rogue, inquisitor, investigator, paladin). I was thinking disguise would help when we need to infiltrate a place but I plan on taking alter self when we get to 4th level. Sense motive is then next on the list but welcome any feedback.

Tiny, what are your thoughts about Variel having adopted you when you were 12ish. Our backstories are familiar enough that there is a definite connection there and reason for us to search each other out. That way Variel would know Beorn through you.

I am still trying to work on ties to Borgan and Paquen.

I dont see Tiny as a slayerr myself. Ninja and eldritch scion work, its just a matter of the direction you want to take their early life. Maybe she picked up a some training from a particularly specialized gang, maybe she stole a spellbook off a wizard and studied it in earnest. Plenty of directions you can go with it. Slayers have a decided martial bent to their skillset though and tiny doesnt strike me as the type.

Gameplay is up. Please dont respond on it till your character is complete enough for me to have a final look over. Ill take it that youll be done and ill run over it. Once i got everyone responding and finished in the fameplay thread itll be officially started.

I'm not planning to invest heavily in social skills. With an 8 CHA I've used the typical workarounds to get INT for Bluff and Diplomacy, but she's not going to be good at any of the other CHA based skills. I'm also not planning in investing very heavily in Diplomacy or Bluff, just enough to keep her foot out of her mouth so as not to ruin the efforts of those who are better at those sort of things. She not so much a smooth operator as an earnest visionary/dreamer type.

Mostly Paquen will be focusing on knowledge skills since she has them all. Secondary will be things like stealth and other "go unnoticed" skills, and alchemical crafting. She'll pick up Brew Potion when she can work it in.

As for ties to other characters, it has more to do with what other characters are up to really. Paquen is very much a townie, never been anywhere outside Kintargo, and Tieflings are mostly crammed into the Devil's Nursery neighborhood in Redroof. So, unless somebody else likes hanging around in slums where they'll probably be getting plenty of funny, semi-hostile looks, she may not know anyone else. Tiny might be an exception?

On the other hand, Paquen is very much about outreach to non-tieflings and finding allies. Her philosophy is tieflings will never force acceptance on Kintargo all by themselves, so friendships and cooperation with other races will be key to normalizing tieflings' status. Slow and steady wins the race.

Thank you so very much for your advice, and for taking the time to write those really long answers!

I've taken a look at the archetypes that were suggested, and I don't think I'll pick Cleaner or Archaeologist, because I can't really picture Litsy being heavily trained in combat or having a deep interest in ancient ruins. Also, Slayer archetypes offer less skill points, and I like them :(

Which leaves Eldritch Scoundrel or Discretion Specialist, and I have to say that it's going to depend on whether Variel adopted Litsy or not. If you allow me to poke a little further, what kind of parent would Variel have been? Would he have brought her along on most of the things he did, or leave her behind out of concern for her safety? Would he have wanted her to know arcane spells?

I'm asking because the backstory I made for this character is that she was never adopted, and consequently became an "empress of orphans", to quote our GM. If she had found a parent, that would require me to change her backstory and personality completely.

Or perhaps she had a bit of a double life. Maybe Variel was away most of the time (for whatever reasons), and she ended up spending a lot of time roaming the streets with her former gang friends from the orphanage. Maybe she would have even refused to give them up, as she would have had spent about 7 or 8 years in the orphanage by the time Variel officially adopted her, and that would have impacted their relationship.

What do you think?

It would definitely make sense that variel would have let her stay behind while he was training to get revenge so that way most of your back story stays intact. When she got older though variel would have brought her along a few times just to introduce her into those areas that he was training in. That way she had a home to go to if needed but spent the majority of her time with her ‘friends’ that she spent time with for 7-8 years. Definitely doable .

I left my backstory vague enough other than my wife and child being killed to adapt to others as need be.

Okay, updated my profile with a slightly more expanded background, appearance and personality.

I took Toughness as my 1st level Feat as it is a prerequisite for Scar Seeker.

I'm still doubting if I should trade darkvision in for another skill point, so I have 5 skill points per level, that way I can also take Intimidate from the start as it's also needed for Scar Seeker.
Any suggestions?

I'll read up on each of your backstories again tomorrow to see if there's a way link up with one another.

As a side note, I love characters with a lot of skills like rogues, bards, investigators. I think Rogues are still an under appreciated class though.

Yeah, seconded! Rogue are quite underappreciated. Their unchained forms with the debiliation abilities and the DR-lowering sneak attacks were really good in actual play from what I've seen. I had a normal rogue with some brawlers levels in my group for most of the endgame hard PFS adventures and she was awesome.

I'll try and finish Crazy Dwarf and get a name for him up tonight.

On Darkvision, normally I'd say skillpoints are better, but if the entire group were to have it in an intrige/stealth campaign, that can be quite valuable. I think those of us who do not naturally have it are capable of casting the spell version of it on themselves?

I dont rhink rogues are underappreciated as much as overshadowed. They had one crutch that relied on gms utilizing an admittedly flawed sytem. Once that goes away the issues with sneak attack becomes pretty stark. Unchained rogue is better.

Its telling to me that owlcat elected to make noknok an unchained rogue and utilize a much more forgiving flanking condition. Honestly i never prohibited the unchained rogue and see no good reason to deny you if you want it.

Nok Nok was pretty good, yeah. Especially with his rediculous goblin dexterity. Think I prefer Woljif in the WoTR gane, though. Casting on a rogue and that DR- Removal rogue talent in a campaign filled to the brim with high DR enemies make him really solid. In either case, I'd call the Olwcat implementation of sneak attack arguably overpowered due to almost *anything* triggering it.

Is wotr even oit? I can never find it on steam.

And im almost done with kingmaker. Even though I have problems with it. Of the type that id shoot the gm over

Lol…playing kingmaker with my daughter right now…yeah it has some issues

Which Issues? I've only had two major ones: kingdom building is never explained and had very strange mechanics, and carrying weight slows down the group. I do know the second can be switched off in options as it makes the game kinda unplayable...

Also, finished the stats for the Malgar, the Crazed Dwarf. I'll think a bit more on how to finish his backstory tomorrow and start posting. One thing I wanted to ask @Tark, I'm having some trouble determining which campaign trait would be fitting for a character like mine. The 'wants to kill as much of house Thrune as possible' angle is only on the 'ex-asmodean' one, which er, I can't say I am. Disgruntled citizen would seem second best but that assumes you've been a law-abiding and nice civilian thusfar, and I don't really feel that either.

Eventually, though a bit weird, I guess the one that works best is... um... gifted satirist. Though if I spin it such that he's secretly a local banksy-like graffity artist that has been spraying obscene drawings of house Thrune over town or such?

READY TO GO!

I am speaking primarily of the kingdom building aspect. The 2 weeks of doing nothing to upgrade your rank really can screw you over. The rest is just annoying that it doesn’t really explain in detail how to go about the kingdom building and had to spent a lot of time researching online to try and figure it out.

I am speaking primarily of the kingdom building aspect. The 2 weeks of doing nothing to upgrade your rank really can screw you over. The rest is just annoying that it doesn’t really explain in detail how to go about the kingdom building and had to spent a lot of time researching online to try and figure it out.

I despised the lingdom building. So I guess my paladin did jack s*$~ for two weeks when all my warden needed was the go ahead? Yeah.

But my biggest grievance was the auto game overs.

So I take my time with the varnhold vanishing. I get to the prime antagonists last couple of rooms and the game is like "lol you lose now".

Like wouldnt there be a bit of a run up? Wouldnt vordakai maybe take a pause seeing as he has an angry paladin, a disguised angel and 4 other violent miscreants about to absolutely murder him? Like players for any table i was on would flip the table and bludgeon me to death with dice bags. And theyd be right to.