Eldritch: NetherWar (Inactive)

Game Master tumbler

Would like clarity about Seven, because it heavily impacts Sinclair’s origin and age.

Could your adventure be 2nd Edition? As opposed to the 3rd edition Freedom City?

Please let me know, so I can align Sinclair to the official Seven timeline.

Thanks

"Titan of Antiquity: Dunwich Horror"... Mmmm. Sounds familiar... heard something similar before... can't quite recall...

Although since Lil' Briareus has been around an epoch or two before Eoten he can have the title ;)

(thinking of changing his to GIant of Avalon since that's where he is bound until called upon)

@GM-ST: That's Eoten (and Æthelweard's collective crunch done). As mentioned above, Eoten is bound to Avalon (by then Master Mage - Merlin) and can only cross to our Earth when the invocation calling him is uttered.

When he does, Æthelweard takes his place in Avalon, until they swap back. Neither age while held in Avalon. Much more a Jason Blood/Etrigan dynamic than say Banner/Hulk.

hah! I must've had Eoten's title floatin' around my lil brain and forgotten where it came from

I keep forgetting to look at this "Freedom City" timeline. Where was it posted again?

Okay, crunch for PL 8 Gracie is done and here she is. Will Dot in shortly.

Kept things simple and just boosted up armor and healing and some skills for now; did add the suggested Takedown ad. I like the suggestions about movement and the like but think that may be for the PL 10 version which I'll work on now--wanted to get her ready for the prelude at least. My thought is as she becomes more accomplished, both sword and armor grant her additional abilities, like Enhanced Strength and Leaping. It occurs to me maybe this should be more of an alt-form transformation, though I think I'll keep it as is as there may be situations where she activates either the armor or the sword but not both.

Need to refresh myself with the Freedom City book -- I think for the prelude she may not know any Freedom City NPCs but maybe someone like Seven or Elflight has reached out to her having been told about her from fey contacts. The one I have is the old 2e book but figure it's probably good for the general gist of things.

I think we have everything ready to go.

Would like clarity about Seven, because it heavily impacts Sinclair’s origin and age.

Could your adventure be 2nd Edition? As opposed to the 3rd edition Freedom City?

Please let me know, so I can align Sinclair to the official Seven timeline.

Thanks

Ok, I'm going to try to make all of this make sense, work with Max's age and the history we have. If we make Seven 22 instead of 19, then she could have gone to Claremont Academy at 10 or 11.

I think it makes more sense if Claremont Academy is a 4th grade thru 12th grade school. It is an expy for Xavier's school anyway, and gifted kids could easily be gifted before High School.

The only problem that causes for Max is that he is in college, and Claremont isn't college. He would have graduated from Claremont a year behind Seven and now be finishing university.

Or Claremont could extend right through College.

When I first thought of Max, he was significantly younger (5ish years) than Seven. It was a one-sided crush not a romantic relationship. So, if she's 22, then he's fine at 18 graduating 12th grade at Claremont.

I wonder what the harm in making her 25 (13 in 2001 according to the timeline). But there must be something.

cheers

Here's a first draft of CR 10 Gracie. I know there is time to re-edit, but this is the gist I am thinking of how she will advance.

BTW I'm creating these in Ski's CharGen for 3e so hopefully there are no basic glaring errors, although I can't guarantee I have applied everything correctly.

Added a tactical map link and visual reference link in the mini campaign description at the top of the page.

You guys can edit either. Feel free to drop your character images in the visual reference so we can have them for, well, reference.

Is it known that Adrian Eldritch is dead and Seven is the Master Mage? Or is that news?

I think we are going with that is big news.

Hey GM, I've got a mechanics question.

When (if?) can you break PL limits?

Take for example All Out Attack. Two things seem likely, but only one can be true.
Either it breaks PL limits, allowing for an Attack +8 Super to be able to attack at +13...
...or it doesn't, meaning that only a Super with an Attack of +3 can gain its full benefit.

I've consulted with some rather smart people about this but we can't seem to find a definite solution.

Plz to help?

All Out Attack can break trade off limits if that is what you mean. So you can get an attack/damage combo that is higher than those limits.

I usually frown on combining All Out Attack and Power attack to move defense to damage. That is technically legal I think, but usually not much fun when you smash through BBEG's.

Cool!

Is there any easy way of knowing which circumstance bonuses can break the PLL and which can't?

Like what? Generally, circumstance bonuses and other things that don't come from your character can break power level. It isn't unusual for things like that to be necessary when fighting foes who are much higher PL than your team.

I was going to ask a similar question. Going over my build I realized I had maxed her sword damage but also gave her Power Attack and then had a vague memory that isn't kosher.

I'm pretty sure all of those "move some numbers from one thing into other things" let you do that freely by RAW. And I've had characters who were very martial arts focused who had all of them so that they could move pluses around freely. And I'm happy to play it that way if that is what you guys want. Silver Tiger has all of them, so that may be what he is planning.

And if it's just Power Attack, then you are taking points from attack and adding them to damage, so that is maintaining you trade offs, just letting you decide what your trade offs are each round.

FYI to all who need them, rules for Hero Points are here (in this page called "Victory Points" to satisfy licensing/trademark restrictions). It is similar to PF rules, but do read through to note differences.

For last ditch maneuvers, you may also wish to review how to use extra effort as well--this is more limited than hero point usage and leaves you fatigued, but still can be useful.

Everything I know about the system says that the exchange feats will let you exceed PL because if you look at PL caps, you can trade off bonus to hit for effect, and so on.

Hi

I'm waiting the resolution/feedback of Sinclair getting crited before posting his action. Need help to avoid and take damage due to newness of game mechanics.

thanks

Max, the rules are available for free here. The rules for damage are under the Game Mastering section. I have pasted them in the Spoiler.

So what just happened:

The attacker succeeded on a critical hit. The attacker can choose what form the critical hit takes:
1: Increase the Toughness DC by 5
2: Leave the Toughness DC as is but add an affliction that has a DC 10 to resist
3: Instead of causing damage, cause an affliction instead that has a higher saving throw to resist.

Option 1 is the easiest to deal with, and is the one that the GM chose.

So, the normal Toughness save vs the giant's attack is 24. Because he succeeded on a critical hit, the Toughness DC increased to 29

You rolled a 23. 29-23=6. 6 is more than 5, so you failed by 2 degrees.

Per the rules I pasted above: "The target is dazed until the end of their next turn and has a –1 circumstance penalty to further checks against damage." According to the conditions glossary, "dazed" means "limited to free actions and a single standard per turn." The dazed condition lasts 1 turn. The -1 penalty to Toughness saves versus damage applies until you are healed or heal normally.

So on your upcoming turn you may attempt one standard action, and if you are attacked again by an effect that requires a Toughness save, you are at a -1 penalty to that roll.

I strongly recommend reading through these rules when you have time. The damage rules, as well as how to use hero points and extra effort which I linked upthread, are most different from other d20 systems. The rest can generally be picked up as we go along.

Thanks for the rules explanation, DQ.

The idea was that he’d be able to mind control sleeping targets to make them attack for him, but now I’m unsure if it interacts that way. Either way, The Hypnotist will give it a try. Haha I’m feeling pretty down on my build today

BWHAHAHAHAHA!

I just keep thinking that, wouldn't it be funny if there was a flaw in this plann...

"Okay, giant, I now control you! Go forth and conquer!"

"Oh, um, could somebody please wake that giant up? I controlled his mind while he was sleeping...and he's still sleeping, so could someone give him a kick or something?"

=p (i r teh silly)

Ha!

P.S. Let me know what the new condition is. I made my Affliction specifically to generate targets for Hypnotist to...hypnostize. So whatever the new condition is I'll just modify my power to.

To Echos Myron and all, if you feel like you need to tweak your build, we can talk about it. It is easy for things not to work like we expected them to.

I'm definitely thinking of tweaking Eoten - rather than him being a standard Hulk/Hyde trope (weak & smart vs BIG and strong) am thinking of combining both of them like an Ettin - two headed, vestigial or conjoined existence.

That way I keep Aethelweard in the mix as well as the giant - combined they are Eoten.

Drawing inspiration from the Immortal Hulk body-horror elements... and potential of the two "heads" arguing.

Am still considering if this should be a PL10 rebuild? Perhaps a foe caused them to warp and meld?? Open to suggestions.

I'm definitely thinking of tweaking Eoten - rather than him being a standard Hulk/Hyde trope (weak & smart vs BIG and strong) am thinking of combining both of them like an Ettin - two headed, vestigial or conjoined existence.

That way I keep Aethelweard in the mix as well as the giant - combined they are Eoten.

Drawing inspiration from the Immortal Hulk body-horror elements... and potential of the two "heads" arguing.

Am still considering if this should be a PL10 rebuild? Perhaps a foe caused them to warp and meld?? Open to suggestions.

That melding could be part of their story arc. Perhaps through learning to work together they could reach the point where both parties are present at PL10?

As for my character, I think an overhaul is in question. Still keep fluff & background but retool powers all together. I depended too heavily on one gimmick and it worked against me

I wouldn't say your build was completely ineffective so much as you had a string of bad luck. You went heavy on Will saves against foes with poor will saves, and they kept rolling very well.

I think Deadman's working as intended so far, but he's pretty simple.

I'm planning for PL 10 though and not 100% sure what I'd do. I was actually thinking of maybe playing one of the aforementioned church exorcists/monster hunters in his Complications at that point. They finally kill Deadman, but one of them feels a bit guilty about it on hearing what good he will (presumably) have done in this arc and take up those responsibilities.

I'm sure that's a little ways off at this point though.

I have no complaints so far about my build, I just forgot that I have move-by action and takedown so I could have, in theory, dropped multiple mooks (I built him leaning towards that as opposed to taking on the boss; we have a couple of powerhouses for that).

I'm gauging the different roles in combat and I'm gonna need to push Hypno more towards crowd control.
Besides afflictions, which I have two of now, what are some other good CC powers that translate well to PbP?

Maybe should give Eoten a penetrating bite? Never going to be his primary attack, but when he does those big teethy-pegs should hurt...

(would only carry over to the monstrous head when he starts packing his vestigial noggin)

I like the idea of Eoten merging into one creature eventually, as an evolution for his character. Could they still separate? I.e., would this be a third alternate form or would they now just be the two-headed giant all the time?

For Hypnotist: most powers can be helpful and workable in PBP or anywhere else--the harder part is often working with the mechanics vs fluff and making it feel organic. Personally, I prefer to think of what you want to be able to do and then figure out the crunch for that, rather than pick a list of powers and then dress them up.

Honestly, re-reading your power array, you have an extremely useful and diverse power array. As you noted yourself, something like making a few things resisted by Fortitude would help--your Coma Trap. The only thing I might consider is maybe shifting points from fewer Alt Forms (I'm assuming that's your channel) and into more of your magic power array.

Another combat option would be a Summoning power, that brings in creatures/spirits from the Dream realm to fight for you.

Non combat, your character concept would be a good one to have communication powers, e.g., sending messages to people in dreams. Would be a good way to draw the group together/communicate if we get separated.

The frustration you're hitting I think is one I've often hit especially in M&M but also any d20 game (even though most of the games I play are dd20) -- the swinginess of the d20 itself. First, I think it's more noticeable in M&M than say Pathfinder because it most builds, including of bad guys are minmaxed, so you always only, technically have about a 55% chance of accomplishing anything, even the stuff you are supposed to be extremely good at at. Secondly, the "equality" of the d20 (you are as likely to roll a 2 as you are a 10 or an 18) works poorly for everyone. It doesn't matter if the mooks have a +1 roll if they keep rolling 20s (this should also be the part where I warn you that SuperTumbler's mooks all have the Lucky--roll High superpower). Personally I've always thought 3d6 would be a better die system for a superhero game because the heroes should almost always succeed on the stuff they are really good at--but there should be major consequences and surprises when they don't, and there is still enough of a random element when dealing with opposed rolls vs similarly powered bad guys.

But ANYWAY--what I'm getting at is you've done nothing wrong with your build. The dice were just being mean.

Any suggestions or comments on Sinclair’s build are welcome.

PL 10 build in spoiler at the bottom of the profile.

Thanks

@GKG: Original thought was he was stuck as the fused being - given that "Eoten" (the giant) and Athelweard are essentially imprisoned in Avalon whilst the other half roams around. The notion that as magical barriers/wards are failing (as Seven alluded to with Bres' presence) then somehow they get merged.

Mmm. Food for thought tho' - perhaps the future summoning causes Eoten and Athelweard to merge rather and swap...

On Hypnotist - I agree wholeheartedly with Gracie. Concept and build are stellar as written. Very cool. Think a Dream Vision/Prophecy power would be a flavoursome way to communicate with the group (just as you can control those asleep).

A Dreamscape that you can combat sleeping foes on would be very cool. Essentially a plane of your making or at least "home territory" - though how you'd play that out mechanically would be potentially tough.

Something like a "Waking Dream" would be extremely cool and powerful - essentially an illusion or warped perception of reality that Hypnotist can control/present as real?

@Sinclair: Looks rock solid. Love all the magic effects. Only thing I might suggest (and this is more my personal take) is you having some magical artefacts or items that cover some of your advanced build. As a more practiced mage and someone who'll have access to items of varying degrees of arcane augmentation or effect (via your Museum internship) totally plausible in the years to come that you collect some items of power?

I added Gracie's "origin story" to her profile, as well as a follow up "first appearance" (which is much briefer) -- basically she fought some bad guys in London, beat the initial bad guys but then was knocked out by a trickier foe, and rescued by Britannia, who I thought it would be fun for her to meet. (No not the wrestler from Glow, but the M&M heroine who is Britain's answer to Lady Liberty.) No deep connection with her, just a brief cameo in her life (in the comics it would be Gracie's cameo in Britannia's book, however).

Thinking into her future I'm thinking she goes to Avalon at some point, perhaps to meet or taken there by the Green Knight. This will be the backdrop for some of the powers she gets in PL 10. I think she feels ambivalent about the fae folk who live there--but understands they have a stake in whatever is happening in the world.

Thanks BDow. Let me tinker.

One question that I had for playing at PL10 was the power split. At PL8, Sinclair is balanced at 8/8. At PL10, I was thinking about taking him to 8 attack /12 effect representing him focusing on more power. What do you think? As opposed to 10/10 or 9/11? Then as be progresses to PL11, he adds extra stuff instead of incrementing his power.

Although my basic question of points for PL10, is how important is Impervious Toughness? If I don't invest in that, I can get some gizmos.

One gizmo that I thinking about was the Amulet of Seraphim, which would pay up the increase from PL8 Protection and Flight. So, without it, he falls down to PL8 levels. Maybe then add Artificer and continue to tinker with it. Maybe add immunity to disease, aging and falling damage.

Mostly, I want to see where the campaign goes. If we face lots of illusions/deceptions, he would tinker that way.

cheers

Secondly, the "equality" of the d20 (you are as likely to roll a 2 as you are a 10 or an 18) works poorly for everyone.

Of special note, there is a boardgame called "Runebound" that, for its first edition, had a d20. In the way of things they agreed that it was far too wild, and in the 2nd edition came out with 2d10.

FWIW I'm satisfied with this build and plan to just give it more options and make some things more bigger.

Part of the reason I've been frustrated with M&M in the past is the perceived swinginess; it often serves to make people feel less cool.

Over time though I've figured out what I think is the intent: for players to let the dice fall as they may much of the time, simulating the back and forth many superhero fights exhibit, but use Hero Points liberally to ensure their cool thing goes off.

I think most of the apparent problems with the system would go away if a GM played into player Complications more to ensure they have a steady stockpile of Hero Points to use.

Ah, so I reworked The Hypnotist and forgot to post it. I originally kept one point open, but ended up throwing it into his saves.

All good ideas though! My plan is that The Hypnotist is a generalist with his ability to put people to sleep as his bread and butter ability, while his son, my PL10 character will be an illusionist, capable of teleporting between copies, manipulating perception and all that jazz. With his new Hypno build, I cleaned up and simplified his powers. I dropped the Coma Trap because...well, it's not very fitting for the type of superhero game we're running. I feel like putting someone in a permanent sleep is on par with the moral ambiguity of sending the Hulk into space.

I'm going to tinker a bit with this PL8 build

We can also interrogate one of the Formorians for information. Sinclair can translate.

There should be one still sleeping, Hypno can read his mind and replay his memories for everyone via illusions

Yep.

BTW really not meaning to have Grace come off as an ass... she's frightened and overwhelmed, and her tone is intended to be very much a young person who is desperately trying to keep it together in a circumstance she has never been in before. I probably shouldn't have had her call out Sinclair like that but she is not sure what to make of him (he claims relationship with Eldritch but is spending more time talking to Seven than appearing to grieve), and doesn't want him making claims on the others' behalf, especially as she doesn't want anyone to think she knows something she doesn't. Honest to a fault, she is.

Anyway, I'm sorry about that, Sinclair. I shouldn't have done that.

I'll tone her down, as the last thing I want is drama and interparty enmity (for those of you have played with me before, stop laughing, I really am trying to be better). I probably shouldn't have gone with "one month a superhero" but I figured for a prequel version it made sense. 7-years-later Grace will be much calmer.

No problem. Most heroes meet start with fights, so we’re doing fine.

Regardless the 7 year push will mature all the character relationships and most characters too.

Cheers

EDIT

Actually, Grace and Max are the same age, 18. Just dealing with their emotions differently. In fairness, Max tried to engage Seven a couple of times to get an emotional reaction of grief but only received full on Seven, no Serena. He didn't want to out her Secret ID by claiming too much familiarity. So, Max bottled his emotions and started to mimic her acting as a superhero. Max is an introvert by nature and totally in love with Seven, so her presence is very much affecting his behavior.

I'm all in favor of some hero vs. hero action in a superhero game, obviously as long as it stays between characters and doesn't spill over into player conflict. You guys are handling it wonderfully.

And Max, you are reading that absolutely correctly. Seven is worried she isn't up to the task, and is doing her best to act the part of the Master Mage of Earth.