Wrath of the Righteous for Paladins (Inactive)

Game Master trawets71

I was hoping to see your sword thrower Leothar but I understand not wanting to go too thin.

That does sound like a fun character.

Wow, interesting recruitment DM Trawets.

I had a elf wizard/ranger in PFS that I played to all of second level. figured he could use hand of apprentice with an elven curved blade...

That's the highest I've played a wizard. Honestly don't know diddly about them or I would be applying. I don't think it would be fair to the other players to learn as I go. So, I hope it's a fun game.

Oh, my sword thrower is in a game - Giantslayer.

Human Sword Binder wizard with a greatsword.

GM, are the red circles on the map the areas of the darkness spells?

Red circles are darkness.

The North room is not silenced, Dadna. Do you want to say anything before grabbing Ardriel by the arm?

Little bit confused. Dadna moved and attacked. Did he teleport away before that happened?

Hang on, did I succeed at dispelling the darkness? The GM's post made it sound like it, but everyone was reacting like the darkness was still there.

The darkness to the west left, but not the darkness to the north, or at least that's my assumption.

I keep forgetting that 'child of the crusades' has "Whenever you successfully. saves against a mind-affecting effect from a demon, as an immediate action you can expend one use of mythic power to cause the demon to become staggered for a number of rounds equal to your mythic tier."

So next mind affecting effect...

Ok, time to ask the GM.

I'm looking at taking the trait Gifted Adept for my Fey Summoner. will the trait apply to all summon monsters spells (level 1 - 9) or just first level summons? I assume it's just first level, but since they are all listed on one page I thought I'd ask.

When it was evident that our plan was no longer to stand our ground, but to chase after this thing, I should have spent a standard action to dismiss the Enlarge Person. My mistake.

I've spent the day in the ER and the hospital with Robbie. Not sure how long we'll be here so posting may be spotty.

So sorry to hear that. Take all the time you need. Family should always come first.

Agreed. That's stressful. Wish you the best.

Wow, sorry to here about Robbie, hope everything is going better.

Thanks guys. It will be a few rounds until anything happens. If you just want me to move it ahead let me know. If you are going to go searching then we will stay in rounds. From the time he disappeared it will be at least 5 rounds unless you go searching for him.

5 rounds isn’t even a minute. Dadna would wait. It would probably be two minutes before she decided to venture out looking for it.

during that time do we want to look behind the alter?

In a knowledge check Ian passed:

Temples such as this typically had caches of healing magic and supplies. They were typically stashed in a secret compartment under the altar.

Ian asked about checking it just before the combat started up again.

We don't know in character that we have 5 rounds... I think in the near term Leothar would want to form up a wall to protect Dadna and Fley as best as we could.

Like Dadna says, after a couple of minutes we might go venture out again.

This darkness is really bad. Intelligent enemies hurt.

What we really need is dimensional anchor. Because as we level up, more and more demons will teleport. The only way I know of how to get it is via legendary item.

Now, here's the problem.

"When a magic item ascends to legendary status, it gains the suite of base legendary abilities and can have up to three additional legendary abilities. By selecting the legendary item universal path ability more than once, a mythic creature can transform a normal legendary item into either a minor artifact (if the character chooses it a second time) or a major artifact (if the character chooses it a third time). A minor artifact legendary item can have up to six additional legendary abilities, and gains the difficult to destroy ability (see below). A major artifact legendary item can have up to 10 additional legendary abilities and gains the difficult to destroy ability"

I made the mistake of making her weapon legendary at Tier 1, meaning that it only gets 1 power. If I waited until Tier 3, then she would have gotten 3! So I really short changed myself there.

At Tier 3, I could take legendary item again. This would let me get dimensional anchor. But...it only gives me +2 abilities. If I wait until Tier 6, then I would get +5 abilities! So waiting until Tier 6 makes much more sense.

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Ardriel. Any chance you'd be interested in a legendary item to help your spellcasting? A...mythic spellbook, for example? Choose intelligent - spellcasting - sorcerer spells. If you do it at lvl 3, then you get:

"Spellcasting: This item allows its bearer to cast a limited number of spells as spell-like abilities. This ability can be taken more than once. Each time it’s taken, the bonded creature gains 5 points to spend on selecting what spells the item can cast. A spell costs a number of points equal to its level (minimum 1). The bearer can then activate the item to use each spell-like ability once per day. By spending double the cost, the bearer can use each spell-like ability three times per day. All spells must come from the same class’s spell list. No spell can have a level higher than the bonded creature’s tier. The caster level for these spells is equal to double the bonded creature’s tier. The save DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell level + the bonded creature’s tier."

So at lvl 3, that would be 15 points to spend. This could be:

3x Dimensional Anchor (6 points)
1x A lvl 3 spell (3 points) [Fly and haste are both great options for a martial party]
1x Darkvision (2 points)
3x A lvl2 spell (4 points) [Glitterdust, perhaps? Or see invisbility?]

15 points total. It would give you darkvision for 1/hr per lvl each day. More than enough if the enemy tries darkness shenanigans' again. You could stop bosses from fleeing. If an enemy goes invisible, you can put a stop to that. Pretty much lets your archmage be the party wizard via some of the best wizard spells.

I am not going to short change the legendary item ability like that. When you gain a tier you will be able to add one more ability. And one more at Tier 3.

I am using this demon's abilities almost to their fullest. I have adapted his tactics from the book somewhat. Fighting in darkness is something you as a group will need to figure out and relying on darkvision isn't the answer. My adaptation of tactics has added some foreshadowing in of a problem that needs solved.

I sort of figured Ardriel would go legendary item and spells heavily to get some of what he needs but that is his call.

Thank you. I appreciate that. :)

I'll be getting spellcasting then...but on spell choices would like to hold off until I know what Ardriel is doing. Preferably I'd like Dadna to focus on Hierophant type spells so as to be more IC and to not step on Adriel's toes. But I do want to make sure that the group has what is needed to meet these threats.

I would expect anyone getting spellcasting in their items would go for ones that enhance their role. Status removal may be what you need. I would expect some blasting as well as others for Ardriel. If Fley were I would expect sneaky type stuff. Leothar buffs and Donnen defensive aids. Ian "bard" type buffs. That doesn't mean I would solely expect that but those would be the main thrust so to speak.

Readied actions to interrupt SLAs are often a very good option against teleporting foes. Better than a full attack even though you lose out on some damage.

Phase-locking is a decent weapon enchantment.

Ian's aura will be good against Darkness eventually. Heightened Continual Flame objects are also useful.

I was planning on getting Legendary Item eventually (I was actually thinking a helmet or a cloak - I'd have to hold a spellbook, which means I wouldn't have my bow in hand). However, I felt that Arcane Endurance was the better play at Tier 1, since we don't have many spell slots to play with and our caster level functions as 3 less than our actual level (since we're paladins). I'll probably go Legendary Item at Tier 2.

I've actually already taken steps to be able to cast haste via spell slots - it's one of the spells I chose for Unsanctioned Knowledge. However, until I can cast level 3 spells, it isn't useful.

The paladin isn't a primary spellcaster, and nothing about it is designed to be. I quite literally chose the hardest roll to fill in this party - and for no other reason than the challenge of it.

I don't know if I'll do much in terms of "offensive" magic - blasting and such. A lot of that requires saving throws, and I don't know if mine will ever be high enough to be worth it. Plus, most demons have Spell Resistance and elemental resistances/immunities. There's just so much that a true arcane spellcasting class can do that I have to commit SO MANY resources to replicating, and I simply don't know if I'll have enough resources to do so. We've got a limited number of feats and Path abilities, after all.

Ian's aura will be good against Darkness eventually. Heightened Continual Flame objects are also useful.

Any ideas what Ian can do in the mean time to help with light? None of his present 'abilities' stack together to make it brighter than a light spell.

I'm planning on doing "Ability: Legendary Item" at some point in time with the magical sword.

@GM, would you allow the Heaven's Light Conduit feat? It seems very fitting for Ian and would give Daylight for a number of rounds per day equal to his ranks in Knowledge (Planes).

Adding Radiant to his armor would also be thematically appropriate.

Speaking of... I wonder if the light from Radiance grows more powerful over time.

Are we going to wait out the 5ish rounds or move ahead? I don't think there was a consensus. Never mind, just realized these are SLA's and casting time doesn't matter.

I would allow Heaven's Light for Ian. It goes along well with his halo and his being an aasimir.

Are we going to wait out the 5ish rounds or move ahead? I don't think there was a consensus. Never mind, just realized these are SLA's and casting time doesn't matter.

I would allow Heaven's Light for Ian. It goes along well with his halo and his being an aasimir.

Ian's good with waiting the 5 rounds.

If he's going to take heaven's light, need to start getting him 'knowledge (planes)' skills

@ Ardriel: Yeah, I wouldn't do blasting either. That's what your arrows are for. :)

@ Ian: Well, you already have darkvision as an Aasimar. You also have daylight 1/day as an SLA. You can make your daylight mythic. "The illumination in the additional 60 foot radius increases to at least normal light regardless of the existing lighting conditions. Creatures that take penalties in bright light double those penalties while in the area of bright light produced by this spell. All other creatures in the area of bright light gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Perception checks and saves to resist fear."

It's also a lvl 3 paladin spell, with 10 min/lvl. That's the best that I can think of.

And finally...

I think, that with the above spells, lay on hands and channeling, Dadna should be pretty good at healing / removing debuffs.

@ Ian: Well, you already have darkvision as an Aasimar. You also have daylight 1/day as an SLA.

I"m an idiot, I gave up darkvision for the halo and spells for an archetype. But I totally forgot about daylight as a once a day SLA. Looks like he may be giving it a try...

Are we going to wait out the 5ish rounds or move ahead? I don't think there was a consensus. Never mind, just realized these are SLA's and casting time doesn't matter.

I am pretty sure SLAs have the same casting time as the spells. This is really important for demons' summoning abilities, as it makes it possible to interrupt.

Using an SLA provokes and that gives the opportunity to interrupt. After looking at SLA:

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description.

It looks like you are right. The tactics in the book say at a certain point in combat the demon uses an SLA that has a 3 round casting time. You just can't do that in combat, it will never go off and the authors should have known that. It doesn't matter here as he poofed out to do some things. So it looks like it will be a few more rounds.

What I meant is that the Summon abilities that many demons have will have the same "1 round" casting time as a Summon Monster spell, which allows for a much broader window to interrupt. You don't need to be standing right next to them to interrupt, and a 5' step won't keep them safe. You can move up and hit them during the round in which they are "casting" the SLA, or hit them with a ranged attack.

That was a much more difficult fight than I was expecting. I was expecting you to go out and meet the demon in the courtyard when he called out for his underling. A deeper darkness cast out there would only have giving him a 20% miss chance.

Here are its tactics from the book: Maugla first casts mass hold person, followed by enervation targeting anyone still moving. After drawing multiple attackers toward it, the nabasu activates its deathstealing gaze in an attempt to consume a life and gain a growth point. Once reduced to fewer than 50 hit points, Maugla casts regenerate and uses vampiric touch in an attempt to outlast his opponents.

Only problem is that regenerate has a 3 round casting time. If SLA's use the spell casting time that is not a viable option in combat. I was honestly afraid to target any of you twice with those enervations as that would have killed you with those rolls.

Darkness and deeper darkness aren't what they were in 2nd Ed but can be game changers in the right circumstances. All they do now is lower the light level by 1 or 2 levels instead of turning everything dark. Areas of overlap between a light spell and a dark spell have the prevailing light conditions but both spells are still operating. That means that the Power of Faith will not work in an area of deeper darkness. I am not sure how many of the demons in the future will have that ability but that is something to keep in mind. I didn't have PoF in mind when the demon used deeper darkness and had to do a lot of reading on how the light and dark spells interact. It only takes 1 spell to "cancel" out the multiple of the other type of the same level. He could have had a million deeper darkness' cast (it was at will for him) and the one daylight would have taken them out in the area they overlapped. PoF would still not have worked as it is currently the level of the light cantrip but even when it gets to the daylight level it will be the same as a deeper darkness which means in the area's of overlap neither prevails. If you guys have any thoughts on the dark and light spells let me know.

Enervation is just bad news. Very hard to defend against.

Yeah, this was a tough fight for Fley, he felt a bit useless. Definitely need a way to see in darkness.

I think there was a thought from us that going out into the courtyard would give it more options to target us. However, it was likely the smarter play. I did consider having Ardriel make for the door to get out of the building, thinking he could be more useful there.

When DM Trawets started talking about the bushes being rough terrain, I thought it would be better to wait in the building where we had clearer lanes. Never thought about the 'level of darkness' in the building

So the demon's special ability is described as “Death Stealing Gaze.” It doesn't say that the demon has "energy drain" which is also a listed ‘special ability' that does become permanent on failing the fortitude save the next day. Whereas vampire, and several other undead, list energy drain as a special ability. Since it doesn’t list ‘Energy drain’ for the Nabasu instead it list a separate special ability, I wouldn’t assume the special ability ‘death stealing gaze’ automatically gives a permanent negative level Or else why wouldn’t it have just been the special ability ‘energy drain’?

Energy drain and negative levels

Some abilities and spells (such as raise dead) bestow permanent level drain on a creature.

The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature.

I would assume that if the negative level is permanent that the ability or spell would say so. Or the creature would have ‘energy drain’ listed as a special ability.

So without the word permanent being used in the Nabasu description, or in the special ability 'Death Stealing Gaze' I would assume the negative levels are temporary.

From a design point of view I'd assume temporary as well. Sending the PCs out of the city and into the wilderness, and then hitting them with perma negative levels? That's just bad design.

Eh...I'm a Red Box player. Level drain in PF is a walk in the park by comparison. I am fine either way. Whatever the GM thinks best.

A red box player? Still? Or just back in the 70's? I mean that's even a little before my time. College 1980....

I probably started around 1984 when I was 8 or so. Still have all of the Mentzer BECMI sets (as well as the Moldvay Basic).

8 in 84, yikes!

So played the basic set, then AD&D, stopped after college until I started playing here on the boards.

It's weird, I don't remember that many of the rules from those days. Of course I'm not super familiar with the minutia of Pathfinder either. That's why I went looking at the different stuff with energy drain, see what I could find.

You better not be calling him old as I was 13 in '84. Didn't start playing until college in the 90s though.

It seems that if you get a saving throw the level is permanent if you don't they are not. I'm going to go with permanent especially as this is how this demon gets a growth point. A restoration spell with take care of it.

Desecrate can be countered by consecrate, it can also be dispelled, though that requires a caster level check like any dispel magic check.

Restoration is a lvl 4 Paladin spell. We get that at lvl 13. I think clerics get it at lvl7. Is there another way to access it?

Also with 3 negative levels, I think Dadna needs 3x castings of restoration (once per week) or 1 casting of greater restorations. Is there a mythic solution? Will start some research...

I'm pretty sure Dadna's 3 negative levels are from Enervation, which wears off after 1 hour per caster level.

Improved Planar Infusion (Nirvana) gives you Restoration as a free SLA (when used on Good creatures). I think it would only be fitting for a paladin of a NG deity, though.

Restoration is not a bad choice for the Spellcasting ability of a Legendary Item. It's a pretty handy spell, and as best as I can tell Mythic doesn't give you any real resistance to energy drain.

For now, Leothar will just be at -1 to most things (i.e. his 1 permanent negative level). Maybe eventually we can get a Crusade cleric to cast Restoration.

You better not be calling him old as I was 13 in '84. Didn't start playing until college in the 90s though.

LOL, no I was commenting on how young he is! Just a Pup, apparently all ya'all!

I’ll make sure that Dadna gets restoration. Either at Tier 4 (legendary item) or at lvl13, whichever comes first.

DM Trawets wrote:

You better not be calling him old as I was 13 in '84. Didn't start playing until college in the 90s though.

LOL, no I was commenting on how young he is! Just a Pup, apparently all ya'all!

You don't want to know how young I am!