Selling Gamin the Misforged

So, after playing Knight March of Kalkimedes, I ended up with a magic sword. I had no idea what to do with it, as the character who got it was a Monk.So I thought to myself "Can I sell it?"

Is that possible?

Good news! If you didn't buy it, then you don't own it thus you can't sell it.

So, after playing Knight March of Kalkimedes, I ended up with a magic sword. I had no idea what to do with it, as the character who got it was a Monk.So I thought to myself "Can I sell it?"

Is that possible?

Did you buy it? If not, it goes poof at the end of the scenario... If you did actually fork out gold for it, you can sell it for half of what you paid for it.

You don't even en up with the sword unless you purchase it, but if you purchased it you may sell it at half the price you paid.

As a player of a Pathfinder Society scenario no one player "gets" an item. Each player is given a share of the value of the found items, with which they can purchase any items found.

Just because you used an item during the adventure, you don't get to keep it forever after that.

okay, just a bit confused then. thanks!

What are you confused about Lucky7? Most of us are here to be helpful.

Wouldn't that technically be slavery?

@Lanityh. thought i had it before. I get it now.

@BNW: I'd be nice...

Wouldn't that technically be slavery?

Is tying him up to he doesn't talk so much and stealing him a form of kidnapping or theft?

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Wouldn't that technically be slavery?

Is tying him up to he doesn't talk so much and stealing him a form of kidnapping or theft?

note that you used "him" and "he" instead of "it"

So kidnapping.

MrSin wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Wouldn't that technically be slavery?

Is tying him up to he doesn't talk so much and stealing him a form of kidnapping or theft?

note that you used "him" and "he" instead of "it"

So kidnapping.

He looked like a male sword to me. Does that mean female swords are the ones who can't be kidnapped? Law in Golarion must be weird.

It means you personified the sword, so the answer would be the crime that applies to people. If you think about the sword as an object, then it would be the crime that applies to objects.

And theft of a slave is theft, because slaves are objects. That's why slavery is Evil. It's treating people as objects.

As a player of a Pathfinder Society scenario no one player "gets" an item. Each player is given a share of the value of the found items, with which they can purchase any items found.

Just because you used an item during the adventure, you don't get to keep it forever after that.

Most of the time this is true, I can think of at least one special where you get to keep a specific item for free.

Lanith wrote:

As a player of a Pathfinder Society scenario no one player "gets" an item. Each player is given a share of the value of the found items, with which they can purchase any items found.

Just because you used an item during the adventure, you don't get to keep it forever after that.

Most of the time this is true, I can think of at least one special where you get to keep a specific item for free.

^This.

I am not 100% sure if you can sell it or not. I would guess no.

Sitri wrote:

Lanith wrote:

As a player of a Pathfinder Society scenario no one player "gets" an item. Each player is given a share of the value of the found items, with which they can purchase any items found.

Just because you used an item during the adventure, you don't get to keep it forever after that.

Most of the time this is true, I can think of at least one special where you get to keep a specific item for free.

^This.

** spoiler omitted **

I am not 100% sure if you can sell it or not. I would guess no.

Wait, what? That's not right...

It needs to say in the adventure that the PCs get access to it for free. Looking over the adventure, it doesn't say that anywhere. It does say to cross Gamin off the chronicle sheet if certain events happen.

Compare this to a certain Season 4 adventure that does give the PCs a free item:

You don't get Gamin for free. You have to pay for him.

Rusty Ironpants wrote:

Sitri wrote:

Lanith wrote:

As a player of a Pathfinder Society scenario no one player "gets" an item. Each player is given a share of the value of the found items, with which they can purchase any items found.

Just because you used an item during the adventure, you don't get to keep it forever after that.

Most of the time this is true, I can think of at least one special where you get to keep a specific item for free.

^This.

** spoiler omitted **

I am not 100% sure if you can sell it or not. I would guess no.

Wait, what? That's not right...

It needs to say in the adventure that the PCs get access to it for free. Looking over the adventure, it doesn't say that anywhere. It does say to cross Gamin off the chronicle sheet if certain events happen.

Compare this to a certain Season 4 adventure that does give the PCs a free item:
** spoiler omitted **

Reread the conclusion. It says X will *give* the PC's his sword.

Reread the conclusion. It says X will *give* the PC's his sword.

Yeah, you get the sword from him, and it goes right with the rest of the treasure that you have earned from the adventure - turned into money unless you want to buy it back from the Pathfinder Society. Compare this:

Kalkamedes is also grateful, spreads word of the PCs’ good deed to his long-time Pathfinder colleagues, and—with Gamin’s consent—gives his sword to the PCs as a gift.

to this:

A PC who accepts the magical Blueberry Pie from the cultists’ magic pie oven receives the magic pie at no cost. The pie appears on this adventure’s Chronicle sheet, but only those PCs who receive it as part of this baking contest gain its effects without needing to expend any character resources.

If the PCs are getting anything for free, it needs to be explicitly spelled out in the adventure. Otherwise it works like anything else you are given or found.

I will point out that Gamin is not actually listed as available to buy on the chronicle sheet. The price is in the stat block but the item is not actually listed in either tier under items found.

The other item is available to buy later if you did not get it for free during the adventure.

The conclusion text does state that Kalkamedes gives Gamin to the PCs, which has shown up several times before in previous scenarios. As an example, I'm remembering a Season 0 scenario.

Doing <redacted> to acquire Gamin as per the conclusion text is what keeps the item on the Chronicle sheet. Failing to do <redacted>, again as further detailed in the conclusion, leads to the GM crossing the item off the Chronicle sheet.

I see where you're coming from, Rusty, as I'm looking at the Chronicle sheet for #4–20 and its custom item; the name appears both as a custom item stat block and in the subtier boxes as a purchasable good. I can see now how my neglecting to include a second entry for Gamin could lead to the impression that the sword is available for free; however, it is not free. Acquiring Gamin in the long-term requires purchasing him from the Chronicle sheet as per normal.

If the PCs are getting anything for free, it needs to be explicitly spelled out in the adventure. Otherwise it works like anything else you are given or found.

This is correct.

But I can't find the Blueberry pie.

As a general guideline, you only get items for free from a chronicle if there's a boon on the chronicle that says you get the item for free.

This, for example:

Slight derail, and sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but can PCs purchase Gamin in sizes other than Medium?

I believe it would still fall under the rules in the guide to organized play that say any items purchased of chronicles can be purchased Medium or Small.

PCs can always buy weapons and equipment off their Chronicle sheets and the approved equipment lists for their size so long as their size is Small or Medium. Thus, if a Chronicle sheet offers a Small PC the opportunity to purchase a +1 frost longsword, she can always buy the +1 frost longsword at size Small. Items found while playing the scenario, however, are the size they are when they’re found. The size can only be adjusted up or down after the scenario is over, while the PCs are buying new gear.

A ha! That's what I was missing. Thanks!

The conclusion text does state that Kalkamedes gives Gamin to the PCs, which has shown up several times before in previous scenarios. As an example, I'm remembering a Season 0 scenario.

** spoiler omitted **

Doing <redacted> to acquire Gamin as per the conclusion text is what keeps the item on the Chronicle sheet. Failing to do <redacted>, again as further detailed in the conclusion, leads to the GM crossing the item off the Chronicle sheet.

I see where you're coming from, Rusty, as I'm looking at the Chronicle sheet for #4–20 and its custom item; the name appears both as a custom item stat block and in the subtier boxes as a purchasable good. I can see now how my neglecting to include a second entry for Gamin could lead to the impression that the sword is available for free; however, it is not free. Acquiring Gamin in the long-term requires purchasing him from the Chronicle sheet as per normal.

Thanks for the clarification John.

When I read the scenario I definitely had the impression that the sword was free, but I can see the other side as well. I think that is because if they find the sword during the scenario they can definitely use it but then in the conclusion (you know after the scenario is done) it says that Kalkamedes may give the sword to the PCs.

Kalkamedes may give the sword to the PCs.

As a general rule, they won't provide a means to gain more gold in a module than the WBL suggests. So if they did give the weapon for free, then the gold for the module would be reduced the amount of the weapon Or at minimum the sale value of the weapon.

To clarify my earlier post, I was thinking

To clarify my earlier post, I was thinking ** spoiler omitted ** where an artifact is listed on the chronicle without a price.

My guess is you get the artifact, but the sheet should make it clear so people who read the sheet know this.

I want OFFICIAL clarification on this. If my characters who did the Nightmarch of Kalkamedes are walking around without a free sword, but other people who did it are carrying an awesome unique item free of charge...

This needs to be settled.

I have a tiefling paladin who will use the crap out of this sword if he can get it free. If not... he won't be able to afford it until he's so high level the sword will be useless.

I want OFFICIAL clarification on this.

Here you go:

Acquiring Gamin in the long-term requires purchasing him from the Chronicle sheet as per normal.

The Morphling wrote:

I want OFFICIAL clarification on this.

Here you go:

John Compton wrote:

Acquiring Gamin in the long-term requires purchasing him from the Chronicle sheet as per normal.

THANK you.

I wish it was free. It's a weak, weak weapon, sadly. It's cool but it's not... well... useful. It's a -1 sword, essentially, that grants a permanent guidance. And it's expensive as balls. My one character who would desperately love it... wouldn't benefit at all from using it. :(

I wish it was free. It's a weak, weak weapon, sadly. It's cool but it's not... well... useful. It's a -1 sword, essentially, that grants a permanent guidance. And it's expensive as balls. My one character who would desperately love it... wouldn't benefit at all from using it. :(

Bladebound magus can get a talking sword for free. Even scales with you and still gets enhanced by the magus(and its not broken and made of mithral...). Plus you know, all the other nice things magus can do like write a Z on someone with their weapon or fly.

redward wrote:

The Morphling wrote:

I want OFFICIAL clarification on this.

Here you go:

John Compton wrote:

Acquiring Gamin in the long-term requires purchasing him from the Chronicle sheet as per normal.

THANK you.

I wish it was free. It's a weak, weak weapon, sadly. It's cool but it's not... well... useful. It's a -1 sword, essentially, that grants a permanent guidance. And it's expensive as balls. My one character who would desperately love it... wouldn't benefit at all from using it. :(

A Halfling with the Isger Fixer Trait can ignore the broken condition for 24 hours.

Not useful for existing characters, obviously.

The Morphling wrote:

redward wrote:

The Morphling wrote:

I want OFFICIAL clarification on this.

Here you go:

John Compton wrote:

Acquiring Gamin in the long-term requires purchasing him from the Chronicle sheet as per normal.

THANK you.

I wish it was free. It's a weak, weak weapon, sadly. It's cool but it's not... well... useful. It's a -1 sword, essentially, that grants a permanent guidance. And it's expensive as balls. My one character who would desperately love it... wouldn't benefit at all from using it. :(

A Halfling with the Isger Fixer Trait can ignore the broken condition for 24 hours.

Not useful for existing characters, obviously.

It's still over 13k gold for a +1 weapon with perma-guidance and nothing else going for it. Less useless, maybe.

Well, this is good to know. When I played it at Linkscon, the GM told us that one person got it. My ranger of Iomedae took it. I can probably afford it now, so I may buy it anyway. Or maybe just buy a regular mithril longsword +1. And I've been using it mostly for the allying ability.

redward wrote:

The Morphling wrote:

redward wrote:

The Morphling wrote:

I want OFFICIAL clarification on this.

Here you go:

John Compton wrote:

Acquiring Gamin in the long-term requires purchasing him from the Chronicle sheet as per normal.

THANK you.

I wish it was free. It's a weak, weak weapon, sadly. It's cool but it's not... well... useful. It's a -1 sword, essentially, that grants a permanent guidance. And it's expensive as balls. My one character who would desperately love it... wouldn't benefit at all from using it. :(

A Halfling with the Isger Fixer Trait can ignore the broken condition for 24 hours.

Not useful for existing characters, obviously.

It's still over 13k gold for a +1 weapon with perma-guidance and nothing else going for it. Less useless, maybe.

The price on my chronicle says 7015, not 13k.

This sounded much better the first three times I typed this message, but my laptop keeps deleting the text-argh!

I personally think Gamin is pretty cool. If you're on the power gamer end of things, I can understand how this might be a weapon you wouldn't want to purchase. However, if you're more into the roleplaying side of things, you could build an awesome backstory for a character around why you choose to wield Gamin instead of a more "effective" weapon. I haven't had the opportunity to play the scenario, but had a blast running it. I really wouldn't mind seeing more things like this in the future, myself...

Its not really a Roleplayer vs. Rollplayer thing, that infers you can't be both. It really is a pretty big dent in your WBL for an item you may never use outside of a cool prop, and choosing to shoot yourself in the foot is almost always a terrible option to make. Its awesome but impractical imo, completely unrelated to roleplaying.(at least at the lower levels were 7k isn't a drop in the bucket.)

Allying is just bad. It doesn't stack with any other bonuses, so by the time you can afford it even your friends backup weapons will be +1.

Can you even upgrade him, or do you have to wait for whatever scenario fixes him to do that too?

My magus loves it.

Can you even upgrade him, or do you have to wait for whatever scenario fixes him to do that too?

Named item, here are the rules for it.

Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?

Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

My magus loves it.

Magus have an advantage no one else has, they can get a scaling intelligent weapon at the cost of an arcana and reducing their arcane points.

Thought so. My paladin can enhance him with weapon bond, but it just doesn't make fiscal sense for him with the -2 attack and damage along with crit reduction.

Can you even upgrade him, or do you have to wait for whatever scenario fixes him to do that too?

If this is actually going to happen then that might make it more interesting. Only if it is a Boon and not a further cost.

Have two sheets to get the unlock sorta deal.

Its allying transfer the bonus to another. Pump gamin up to +3 and dump the bonus on a friendly fighter. Or just talk to a cheap intelligent weapon without going bladebound.

teribithia9 wrote:

I personally think Gamin is pretty cool. If you're on the power gamer end of things, I can understand how this might be a weapon you wouldn't want to purchase. However, if you're more into the roleplaying side of things, you could build an awesome backstory for a character around why you choose to wield Gamin instead of a more "effective" weapon. I haven't had the opportunity to play the scenario, but had a blast running it. I really wouldn't mind seeing more things like this in the future, myself...

Its not really a Roleplayer vs. Rollplayer thing, that infers you can't be both. It really is a pretty big dent in your WBL for an item you may never use outside of a cool prop, and choosing to shoot yourself in the foot is almost always a terrible option to make. Its awesome but impractical imo, completely unrelated to roleplaying.(at least at the lower levels were 7k isn't a drop in the bucket.)

It's a big dent, yes, but that doesn't make Gamin useless. There are some people (obviously, me included) who think the flavor is nice enough to build a character around it. I have at least one character that I didn't build around it that would also be more than happy with Gamin and make good use of him in play if she had access. I just wanted to put in my two cents on this--I want paizo to know that while there are plenty of people out there who'll think Gamin is useless, there are also plenty who think the scenario was great and jump at the chance to take Gamin for the story opportunities he brings, regardless of whether he's ever fixable or upgradeable. Not everyone considers something like this useless.

No matter how many times you shoot yourself in the foot, deliberately handicapping yourself will never make your a better roleplayer. I just said not to make it into a roleplayer vs rollplayer thing, not that he wasn't useless. It would be nice if you had options like Gamin that didn't sting, but then you'd see a lot of gamin's around probably. I would love to have Gamin too, on any of my characters, I just don't want to have to shoot myself in the foot over it.

That said, I did enjoy the adventure. Gives me a funny story about all the things that went horribly wrong and a group's problem solving skills.

But what story opportunity does he really bring to the table in scenario based play where the only real person at the table who might know who/what it is happens to be you?

I'm surprised that I'll be the first... so I'll do it...

HAhahahahahaaaa