The City of Broken Doors, A Planescape Story (Inactive)

Game Master The Kobold Klan

"Ich werde dich auf die Nase schlagen, nimm, dass du bohrst."

** spoiler omitted **

Wow it works really well.

Please don't do German. I'm German and that sentence does not make any sense.

There is a very good guild to online roll playing buy Doomed hero,
**Here**
It covers a lot of things we have talked about.

I used Latin for Draconic: German or Gailec for Dwarven, Russian for goblinoid..

Also, you guys are all posting WAY faster than i usually do, heh.

I think it'll level out.

Hey, do we still have our other drow coming in?

So based on character interactions so far...

Group 1
Yigbex
Telin
Sparrow
Eleven

Group A
Sheila
Halie

Wildcards!
Tak
Gilly
Shedinn
Mystery Drow

Reasoning
Sheila and Yigbex suffer from animosity breed into them. Not impossible to overcome but only if Yigbex is willing to buck his authority, he hasn't indicated he's willing to do that.

Similar reason for Telin and Sheila.

This forces Halie with Sheila since Halie has animosity toward Baatezu slavery, technicalities aside.

This also forces Yigbex with Telin

Sparrow and Eleven are working together Eleven wouldn't have it otherwise. And she wants to protect her from the biggest monster in the room, Shiela. So they go on team Yigbex.

The others Gilly, Tak, Shedinnn and the Mystery Drow are wildcards. I suspect Mystery Drow will be on team Shiela to keep them away from Telin, but that really depends on what kind of Drow they are.

Thoughts?

I think that's a pretty decent breakdown.

I think Telin could overcome his animosity towards Drow in general but the alignments of both Sheila and our Drider friend make that unlikely, however I will make it happen if it is necessary. Depending on what the Lady says there may be no choice as it were :)

I would prefer quite a different mix. While Haile has spoken cordially with Sheila I cannot see a long term relationship with any good character and a chaotic evil one. I have no idea how Sheila's player will play her, but I have always considered CE as the one alignment that cannot fit into any group.

My preference would be to have a non-evil group that contained all the good characters. Yes, this might be more boring, lol, but its still my preference and makes the most sense for successful teams.

Haile's one big trigger is slavery. As long as there is no slaver taking or buying its likely not going to be a big issue.

Could Haile get along with Yigbex? I think lawful evil is generally the easiest to tie to a otherwise good inclined party.

I don't think Yigbex and and Sheila can get along (in character if course) and that's why the split eveil characters. Then again maybe as players Yigbex and Shiela enjoy the tough "banter"?

This was just my observations so far and was not intended as anything close to binding.

Eleven's views, bast on actions so far.

Happy to work with
Sparrow
Telin
Tak
Haile

Not Happy to work with
Sheila
Yigbex
Gilly

Unknown
Shedinn
Mystery Drow

I don't think Yigbex and and Sheila can get along (in character if course) and that's why the split eveil characters. Then again maybe as players Yigbex and Shiela enjoy the tough "banter"?

I'd figure the worst it will be between Sheila and Yigbex will be throwing insults at each other, but introductions are still ongoing. So, don't worry, we'll make it work.

I believe that in general Lawful evil should work fine in a party. At least they can agree to a plan and follow through. That said I have no idea how anyone will actually play their alignment so ...

I pretty much agree with Eleven's views.

Mine and Taks personal view points on the subject.

Until anyone of any alignment actually breaks the law Tak will continue to judge based on what he see's and believes. any alignment via detecting spells are unreliable and can be fooled.

AS a player i'm more against Chaotic Neutral than any other even evil alignments. As far as Tak goes, He dislikes, even hates Chaotic Good. Basically, he doesn't like Vigilante types

Tak is content with Sheila, she hasn't done anything yet.

Emphasis on something, Tak doesn't care if your good or evil. You break the Law and he turns you in.

How a player plays a character is important. Let's not forget, the Exception to the rule of race is a thing in rpg's, early levels everyone starts somewhere at some alignment. Evil characters can turn neutral or even good, plenty in canon examples to give. A good aligned character should be all too willing to try and help unless theyre the Deus Volt type

Basically I think an Evil Character or Chaotic evil can work with a good aligned pc that gives effort to try. Alignments are a generalization not a specific or 100%

Yeah, I'm feeling painted into a corner and written off here. Alignment drift is absolutely on the table to me. And that would be clear to anyone who's listened to what Sheila's said so far, or people who remember me bringing up that "I will be doing my best to 'make things work' so-to-speak either way." I actually consider it a personal goal to make this CE character work in a group, because I've also not seen a character with that alignment work, and I'd like to make the exception rather than play Stupid Evil. Which really looks like what everyone is assuming I'll do despite what I've already stated, and anything that's occurred in-game.

I make no such assumptions Sheila. I think it will be interesting to watch a character fight against her inherent chaotic nature to try to become better.

Frankly, Sparrow is essentially on the same path, just starting from CG. That is something that is in her blood though, right now she is acting more lawfully than normal because it is a good way to keep a low profile. Running away from her owner with slave ownership was legal was probably more of a CG thing to do though.

I'm glad people mostly agree alignment is dumb sometimes. That said I think that no matter how ww split multiple characters are going to be upset about it because Gilly has a love that is unrequited.

He has people he wants to spend time with but he's not offended by anyone.

I am really feeling Eleven will end up LG by the end of this,
Just from being around the other PCs, She is already starting to see things in a new light. Tak, Haile, Sparrow what have you brought out of this cold hard Mech-a. haha

Well, it's hard to judge a character by a short conversation held somewhat under duress. Telin for instance has basically been a low-key jerk. A polite jerk, but a jerk all the same. Mostly due to being stressed out and scared.

For me, alighnment isnt a Strict limit on your character. I preffer alighnment more to be a guide.

Lawful- You follow rules and have a code, you can be easily trusted. You are typically one to establish plans and follow a patern in combat: Ie. you pick a target and stick with them

Chaotic: You are rash and spontaneous- you often act without a plan, but that doesn't mean you act irrationally. You pick a target and Change it depending on threat

Neutral(law/chaos): You are free- you don't have a patern that matches you, yet you also don't act on a whim. Although you have plans, often times they are not thought out.

Good: Your kind, you seek to help those in need, You have great morals, and hate seeing others suffer. However your not one to help just anyone just because they need help.

Evil: you don't have morals. Your ideals are purely selfish or immoral. What you do may be for the benefit of others, but you don't care what it takes to do so. For you- if others suffer from your actions you don't care.... Perhaps you even find pleasure in it.

Neutral(evil/good): You have some morals, your not particularly kind, yet you aren't vile or cruel enough to make needless pain. You treat others as they treat you- you may help others, but most of the time it's because it's the best action to take and not because you where inclined to do so.

please no alignment discussion. We have had these since the 80s.

Well, it's hard to judge a character by a short conversation held somewhat under duress. Telin for instance has basically been a low-key jerk. A polite jerk, but a jerk all the same. Mostly due to being stressed out and scared.

Eleven IS quick to judge everyone she meets, from the moment they meet she is assessing them, into categories. Truth is, She dose not have the level of empathy levels to do more. Well, not yet anyway.

Like the two now doing a hand puppetry show whole others talk of laws and actions, being to her a good indicator of how she will be respected.

She is putting the group into two sub groups of

'could be ok to deal with'

and

'Humm, working with may be troublesome'

Well thats what I see her doing.

please no alignment discussion. We have had these since the 80s.

Sorry but philosophical discussion about beliefs is a core principal of Planescape, and alignment is an aspect of that. Its not all of it for sure but it is there.

I do not mean to be abrasive here but alignment is part of the game for a reason and it’s
totally logical for “typical” alignment to be part of what we use to sub divide ourselves. A typical imp is not gonna choose to hang with a typical demon. Etc . I know I could enjoy gaming with all of you but I have to wonder a little about folks that bring a CE character to a group. Perhaps the only issue is how I view CE. I do see many GMs say any alignment is ok except CE though and believe there is good reason.

Haile may have less issues in play with CE than LE, LN, or even LG but only when it comes to legal slavery. But Haile will not always fly into a rage and attack slavers. In most legal situations he would be more likely to buy and free a slave while working to change the law. But he also might be part of an underground movement to break slaves out of bondage.

I didn't mean that I hate the alignment system and that we/I should ignore it. I just don't see the need to meta discus it, because enough people have done that. There are probably PhD these about it.
Just play it as good as you can and want.

I do not mean to be abrasive here but alignment is part of the game for a reason and it’s

totally logical for “typical” alignment to be part of what we use to sub divide ourselves. A typical imp is not gonna choose to hang with a typical demon. Etc . I know I could enjoy gaming with all of you but I have to wonder a little about folks that bring a CE character to a group. Perhaps the only issue is how I view CE. I do see many GMs say any alignment is ok except CE though and believe there is good reason.

Haile may have less issues in play with CE than LE, LN, or even LG but only when it comes to legal slavery. But Haile will not always fly into a rage and attack slavers. In most legal situations he would be more likely to buy and free a slave while working to change the law. But he also might be part of an underground movement to break slaves out of bondage.

Like I said, I'm aware of how CE typically looks, which is why I want to do something else with it. What exactly do you wonder about me? I've been nothing but straightforward with anybody in and out of game. I'd be more than happy to discuss concerns here or in a PM.

Would everybody prefer I just redact one letter in my sheet to say "CN", so we can be done with preconceived notions? I only care because it seems a few players here are more concerned with that letter than they should be.

I didn't mean that I hate the alignment system and that we/I should ignore it. I just don't see the need to meta discus it, because enough people have done that. There are probably PhD these about it.

Just play it as good as you can and want.

Thank you for your candor. It is appreciated.

Mystery Drow here, just checked in for the first time in a few days to find that there seems to be an alignment kerfuffle going on. Best of luck sorting that all out gang, alignment can be a b##%# if people are too rigged about it.

@Lonely, I thank you for accepting me into your game but unfortunately I am here to announce I'm dropping out. I'm contracted by a company that is going through a merger and my entire job has basically been upended and shifted around and I am essentially back to being a day one employee. I have a bunch of additional training and seminars to go through and I just don't think I will have time to dedicate the time this game deserves. So rather than being that one player people need to wait on or ignore I think it would be best if I just go.

I'm not sure if you plan on replacing me, but I would toss my hat in for Teiidae. I've played with him in a number of games and he's a dependable and adaptable player.

Thanks for the opportunity.

Good luck and thanks for letting us know!

Sorry to hear it Zazriel, good luck with your job. :(

One thing I would like to say regarding the mixing of alignments. It's pretty normal for people to reticent to mix very different alignments. intra-party conflict can be brutal to a game, and we've all read if not experienced the horror stories that go along with diametrically opposed characters within a game. However, I do think any mix of character can work provided the players are willing to go with it. CE can work in a party, the bad guys do it all the time, it just takes motivation.

A counter point is this. Often players chose to play evil alignments because they would like to play a character that does evil things. I'm not saying that that is the case for any of the players in this group, however aren't comfortable with the being a part of a group that uses evil means to accomplish an end. It is natural such players to be concerned with playing with a player who's made the choice to play an evil alignment.

Take away:
As players, we don't have a great deal of experience with each other and so assumptions are being made for better and worse. The best thing we can do is hash this out not before we create the groups with liberal use of the discussion thread to avoid problems down the road. So all of this is good, it might suck, but it's better than running into problems in game.

Is there a good exercise we could do that would help us each understand the others' goals and expectations? We kinda talked went though one when I brought up my comfort level with sexual suggestiveness and had a very good chat.

Best of luck Gramork! Wish you well.

Sorry to hear it Zazriel, good luck with your job. :(

Is there a good exercise we could do that would help us each understand the others' goals and expectations? We kinda talked went though one when I brought up my comfort level with sexual suggestiveness and had a very good chat.

All fair points. I think just laying things out could help, but isn't that why the GM had us write our goals in and out of character in the first place? If you mean bringing our goals and expectations up in more detail, I can start, no problemo.

Idk, I was hoping maybe someone had a pre-set player exercise we could run through. Mostly I think a lot this is just chatting enough for everyone to gain a certain level of trust.

As you said we have all put some of our goals into our submissions, but finding all of them can be tough. Maybe going through them again would be good? You went, so I'll go too.

Character Discussion:
-Telin is looking to become a famous hero sort. He has a childish desire to be an adventurer, to right the world's wrongs, help people and generally be an awesome bad-a$$. He also want's to prove that he can make his own way, independent of his father and title.

-Telin grew up with and enjoys the "finer things in life." He drinks good wine, eats fancy food, and generally has a high standard of living.

-Sigil is where Telin has ended up mostly due to chance. He needed a place to hide from his family, a place where he could be an "adventurer" and a place where he could do both of the former while still maintaining his high standard of living. There a I'm sure other cities that would have qualified, but this game is set in Sigil so...

-Good is really Telin's ideal. He understands the value that laws have in creating an environment for good, but he also has a great value for individual freedom and choice. He grew up the heir to an estate and helped to run it, a task impossible without some "law," but at the same time he's shirked the duty to take over that same estate to become an adventurer. It's a complicated mess for him. He'd break laws if he felt it was important for a greater good, but he won't go about doing whatever he feels like.

Build Discussion:
-Telin has evil eye and slumber with hex strike to back them and enforcer. In one round he can move, hit and free action to intimidate followed by a swift action to evil eye for a -4 to saves. Next round he can slumber and be very likely to drop a foe provided they can be effected by those tricks. In the future he will pick up more hexes including ice tomb to add to this.

-Telin is a switch-hitter. He will usually start combat with a bow in hand and flying, switching to melee when appropriate. Because he has improved unarmed strike he can switch between melee and ranged at will and will be quick to switch as appropriate.

-Telin also has brawler two weapon fighting and can do respectable damage if he can sneak attack, but he isn't a primary DPR.

-Outside of combat Telin is a skill monkey. His high number of senses and innate flight should make him a decent scout. He's not particularly specialized right now, but will be more as the party comes together.

Player Discussion:
-As a player I like to play heroes. Heroes can be put in tight places and have to make hard decisions, but rarely will resort to "evil" means to make the end goal.

-I enjoy friendly rivalry between party members and some banter, but not a forced hostile relationship. Basically I like party members to qualify as friends not just coworkers.

Offtopic: BTW Smashomancer, how do you make bullet points!?

Use brackets "[]" and put an asterisk in them.

So, I as a player I really don't have much in the way of expectations for the people who end up stuck with Sheila besides basic teamwork skills, but I do like to think outside the box. I've stumped my GM's in face to face games more than once working out a solution to something. Part of why I went with a full caster class even though I really like building my melee beatsticks.

Other things Sheila can do are picking up more and more combat feats as we level for versatility, and generally focusing on buffs for herself and team. Large size and longspear are a useful melee combo too, but her HP isn't exactly frontline material compared to some of the defenses other characters here have.

Also two abilities named War Sight because Paizo is allergic to thesauruses.

Use brackets "[]" and put an asterisk in them.

Haile wrote:

I do not mean to be abrasive here but alignment is part of the game for a reason and it’s

totally logical for “typical” alignment to be part of what we use to sub divide ourselves. A typical imp is not gonna choose to hang with a typical demon. Etc . I know I could enjoy gaming with all of you but I have to wonder a little about folks that bring a CE character to a group. Perhaps the only issue is how I view CE. I do see many GMs say any alignment is ok except CE though and believe there is good reason.

Haile may have less issues in play with CE than LE, LN, or even LG but only when it comes to legal slavery. But Haile will not always fly into a rage and attack slavers. In most legal situations he would be more likely to buy and free a slave while working to change the law. But he also might be part of an underground movement to break slaves out of bondage.

Like I said, I'm aware of how CE typically looks, which is why I want to do something else with it. What exactly do you wonder about me? I've been nothing but straightforward with anybody in and out of game. I'd be more than happy to discuss concerns here or in a PM.

Would everybody prefer I just redact one letter in my sheet to say "CN", so we can be done with preconceived notions? I only care because it seems a few players here are more concerned with that letter than they should be.

How concerned we should be with that letter is quite subjective. I honestly expect CE characters to kill babies if it benefits them and take pleasure in causing pain. It seems you are saying that is not how you see CE. Our GM has explained how he sees evil and I mostly agree. "Evil: you don't have morals. Your ideals are purely selfish or immoral. What you do may be for the benefit of others, but you don't care what it takes to do so. For you- if others suffer from your actions you don't care.... Perhaps you even find pleasure in it." Why would someone not evil choose to hang out with such a person? By choosing an evil alignment this is how I expect you to play. I will happily let you show me otherwise but that is my starting expectation. But now that our GM has explained how he sees the alignment, if you do not want to play that way it might be proper to change from evil to neutral. Totally your call.

Note that you do not wear a sign saying CE. So IC Haile might not ever know what your alignment is, and I think clever evil players could easily hide their alignment for a long time. Your race and appearance suggests a certain disposition though.

How concerned we should be with that letter is quite subjective. I honestly expect CE characters to kill babies if it benefits them and take pleasure in causing pain. It seems you are saying that is not how you see CE. Our GM has explained how he sees evil and I mostly agree. "Evil: you don't have morals. Your ideals are purely selfish or immoral. What you do may be for the benefit of others, but you don't care what it takes to do so. For you- if others suffer from your actions you don't care.... Perhaps you even find pleasure in it." Why would someone not evil choose to hang out with such a person?

If that's the experience you've had with CE, then I can't say I'm surprised by your expectations. I've had campaign-shatteringly bad experiences with CN myself, and I'll admit I do a double take at a Chaotic Neutral PC as a GM. We all have hang-ups, but I like to think of this as a chance to iron them out, even if only a bit. Neither the definition of Evil or Chaos the GM gave us conflicts with the way I've run this character. If he decides I should change whats written on the sheet, I have no problem with that.

Otherwise, I guess I'm asking you to trust a stranger on the internet, and well, I know how that sounds, lol. And I guess I should specify that I'm not really angry, so if my text comes across hostile, it's unintended.

I'm glad Gilly is more suspicious than Sheila.

Seriously I've had players use CN to justify any action. My plan for Gilly is to do random stuff that I and hopefully others here will find entertaining. If its not fun then I don't want it. So please tell me if I'm ruining the fun. I don't want to tank a game because that's uncool.

** spoiler omitted **

Focused violence. I like that phrase. Thats a good term for what I was planning. When the fights break out, then the evil comes out. Not before. Doing otherwise would be silly, yes.

Sidenote: How does Gilly have a 15 ft speed with four legs?

Lol copy/paste error. I built the byline off of a gnome in medium armor. Thanks for tip!

Its always been a share tk me when a DM says "you may be Evil, But no chaotic evil"

I mean, I understand why: being chaotic evil makes one think they are murder hobos with nothing better to do but Steal, Kill, and Party like the drow.

When in all honesty you have societies like the drow that are completely chaotic evil yet have yet to fall and be destroyed.

To me yeah... Chaotic evil could mean the crazy Orc Barbarian- but not always.

Hence why I preffer things on Those scales to be based more on morals than actual personality. Alighnment is basically just a summary of your morals and methods tied up into a simple to understandable package.

So- in the end I allow any alignment with the idea that you can play them however you like. Knowing full well that if they are gonna be chaotic Stupid then they will quickly learn what it's like to be that one bandit who tries to mug the Dragonborn in Dragonbone armor.

@DM

Did you see Zazriel's withdraw?

It could easily get buried in the number of posts.

Just on the off chance it was missed.

Mystery Drow here, just checked in for the first time in a few days to find that there seems to be an alignment kerfuffle going on. Best of luck sorting that all out gang, alignment can be a b+**~ if people are too rigged about it.

@Lonely, I thank you for accepting me into your game but unfortunately I am here to announce I'm dropping out. I'm contracted by a company that is going through a merger and my entire job has basically been upended and shifted around and I am essentially back to being a day one employee. I have a bunch of additional training and seminars to go through and I just don't think I will have time to dedicate the time this game deserves. So rather than being that one player people need to wait on or ignore I think it would be best if I just go.

I'm not sure if you plan on replacing me, but I would toss my hat in for Teiidae. I've played with him in a number of games and he's a dependable and adaptable player.

Thanks for the opportunity.

O boy is Eleven moving to Lg, haha, Mecha with a heart.

Yes, I did infact see it

Request list so far:

Not sure any such help has been offered. lol.

It hasn't been, but we're askin' lol

My thinking is this way we have to be a team, having to move around to-giver. The ship AI means it can be GM run, so keep us on track
Then GM can put on the craft what GM thinks we need,
+ personal rooms for each PC to kit out,
meeting rooms gym etc for PCs to interact in.
It can hold a library for reserch, labs work shops sick bay, etc. Its just an idea but could make the whole going from A to B a laid more fun to say pop from here to there. It could take time and so give us time to Roll play .
+ "Sheila" as ships Doctor and Gilly as Pilot say..means we have to get along and that just appeals to me
Eleven is happy to be the crafts Engineer,
then the rest just pick jobs rolls.
and let the fun begin.

It's like starfinder basically. Our own ship/planar sphere (I did catch that mention of Volo there btw. Very nice :) your words are ambrosia)

We could even start by having a side quest or two to colllect necessary components for this extravagant device.

Perhaps it begins only partially functional and we have to keep working to improve it as we adventure.

Gilly as pilot amuses me.