This is my pitch: I bought a bunch of Werewolf 20 stuff on sale on rpd drivethru, and I love the wild west setting, but I don't want to learn new rules, so we'd use the setting but not the rules.
The campaign would be reminiscent of Bone Tomahawk, Cowboys and Aliens, and other horror/sci-fi westerns.
I'm also very interested in this period of history -- I plan on incorporating a lot of material from the Ghost Dance, and early Mormon legendarium/history, as well as Civil War events.
We'd probably be playing in the 1850s to start out.
Rules:
Stats: 50 pt. buy
Races: humans with the werewolf template. Most players need to be this. I might allow one exception if you make a good case. This is a werewolf game!
Class: gestalt gunslinger/something else, start at 4th level. The only exception to this is if you play a Native American character where gunslinger doesn't make sense. I'd like a large proportion of the players to be gunslinger gestalts.
Multiclass archetypes and VMC and prestige classes OK. No multiclassing on either side of the gestalt.
Mythic: gestalt 2 mythic progressions, 2 tiers.
Feats: 1 per level instead of 1 every other level. Feat tax rules.
Equipment: just pick stuff that makes sense.
HP -- Wounds/Vigor. Just take maximum for rolls.
AC -- Armor as Damage Reduction, piecemeal armor.
3rd party: basically anything as long as it makes sense for the setting.
Combat -- Unchained action economy.
Hero points
Combat/stamina
Skill unlocks
Open to questions/concerns (especially if I forgot a rules issue), and hoping to have some interest...
I’ve been wanting to build a gunslinging Eldritch Archer Magus for a while now. This looks like a pretty much perfect opportunity.
Guns Everywhere/Modern Guns? I mean, I’d assume revolvers and the like would be a go in an Old West setting, but just to be sure.
Yeah guns everywhere/modern guns.
Also -- the idea is that these characters are slightly like superheroes like in western movies where the protagonist can shoot everything up and not get nicked, so that's the high power angle.
I'm interested. Not something I've really considered before (I usually like melee / martial characters).
How about a DSP Marksman, Finesse Style for the other side of the gestalt?
sounds good, looking forward to seeing what everyone comes up with
Actually, I should ask for clarification- is there a limit to the magical nature of things? I was assuming a more gritty, less Fireball-ey setting, even though you didn't say that. If that's not the case, I might look at a couple cleric or wizard archetypes for the other side of the gestalt.
no, it's fantasy -- magic is fine. The background of the setting prehistory is Exalted. The Mormon characters are going to include a lot of occult classes. The angel that spoke to Joseph Smith is related to the Unconquered Sun from Exalted, etc. Does that sort of answer your question.
That's less prevalent now, but shamans really have spells, as well as faith healers etc.
Sounds fun!
A few questions:
1) I just want to make sure 50pt buy isn't a typo, right ;-) Assuming it's not, is there a max we should buy stats to?
2) I'd love to read/know a bit more about the setting. I understand from what you wrote that we're in a wild west that has real magic and real werewolves. What else is different? How much of the populace are werewolves? How are werewolves viewed? Do you expect that we're all happy to be werewolves, or would some/all of us think of it as a horrible affliction that we hope to be cured of?
3) Can you say a bit more about what you think our party will be doing? (e.g. are we a group of helpful werewolves working together to stop a demonic invasion? A group of evil werewolves who prey on the weak? How much will this be a sandbox vs plot driven?)
4) When will recruitment close?
Thanks!
Sounds fun!
A few questions:
1) I just want to make sure 50pt buy isn't a typo, right ;-) Assuming it's not, is there a max we should buy stats to?
2) I'd love to read/know a bit more about the setting. I understand from what you wrote that we're in a wild west that has real magic and real werewolves. What else is different? How much of the populace are werewolves? How are werewolves viewed? Do you expect that we're all happy to be werewolves, or would some/all of us think of it as a horrible affliction that we hope to be cured of?
3) Can you say a bit more about what you think our party will be doing? (e.g. are we a group of helpful werewolves working together to stop a demonic invasion? A group of evil werewolves who prey on the weak? How much will this be a sandbox vs plot driven?)
4) When will recruitment close?Thanks!
1 50pt. buy is not a typo five zero. No max for buy.
2 Thanks for the interest -- there are several wikis to read up on the setting: wiki
It's very grimdark/emo.
3 I am imagining something built around the Ghost Dance and the last throes of Comancheria. The Ghost Dance will be a genuine supernatural event like in Deadlands and Shadowrun. You'll probably start out in Salt Lake City Utah.
There are also power struggles among the Mormon elite over the potential disbanding of polygamy and other stuff -- I know a lot about this subject, it will be very detailed historically.
You might also participate in the Nez Perce War or something like that.
I tend to do more Sandbox kind of stuff generally. I make up stuff based on PC choices.
4 I don't know yet, I need to see interest. I'm most concerned about getting a viable party.
Wut? Werewolf, really?
I love WW!
Ok, so I'll try two characters at this, one a gunslinger pastor (probably warpriest, but not sure) and another a native (rogue, ranger or slayer, maybe). Then I'll apply with the one which overlaps less with other applications. If that's ok for you, of course.
One thing: are we following the whole background of WW? I mean garou organisation, cosmology, etc?
you should assume some version of all of WW canon applies, though I may have to expand it in certain cases. I will shoehorn pathfinder stuff into that model.
i'm still reading myself, sounds like you're an old hand and I may ask you questions about WW canon
Some questions on character creation...Rules:
.....
- Is this the werewolf template you are referring to?
- If I understand correctly, archetypes and VMC and prestige classes are ok, but no multi classing with a non-prestige class on either side of the gestalt? Clarifying the "multi class archetypes" bit...
- Gestalt Mythic meaning pick two paths, and get the first level abilities of each and two path abilities from each, for four total?
- Feat tax rules are specifically the "Elephant in the Room" feat tax rules?
- Is pre-start crafting or crafting at all allowed?
- Unchained action economy - how does that interact with feats like Rapid shot, or other abilities that require or trigger on full-attack actions?
- Does everyone get combat stamina, or only fighters?
- Do skill unlocks require the Signature Skill feat to access?
- Two traits + a drawback for a third?
I think that's it for the moment...
and two submissions is fine -- you can probably even play both if you want
Some questions on character creation... •Is this the werewolf template you are referring to?
not sure on that yet, there seem to be several options, I might allow a choice. what do you want?
•If I understand correctly, archetypes and VMC and prestige classes are ok, but no multi classing with a non-prestige class on either side of the gestalt? Clarifying the "multi class archetypes" bit...
yes, but multi class archetypes are a thing developed on the board, google it. It's a big homebrew project.
•Gestalt Mythic meaning pick two paths, and get the first level abilities of each and two path abilities from each, for four total?
yeah, just like gestalt but with mythic tiers
•Feat tax rules are specifically the "Elephant in the Room" feat tax rules?
yes
•Is pre-start crafting or crafting at all allowed?
sure, I don't know anything about this system but it should be fine
•Unchained action economy - how does that interact with feats like Rapid shot, or other abilities that require or trigger on full-attack actions?
explain the issue to me more
•Does everyone get combat stamina, or only fighters?
everyone gets it free (doesn't need a slot)
•Do skill unlocks require the Signature Skill feat to access?
everyone gets that free too
• Two traits + a drawback for a third?
yup
VERY INTERESTED!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_West this is a good overview of the genre we're aiming for to answer questions about degree of magic, etc.
Thanks for the quick answers.
Another Q:
Races Is this human-werewolf only, or are there were-gnomes and were-dwarfs running about?
human only -- there are only world of darkness races
Oooh, interesting.
I'll definitely be looking into this.
Crafting is just the general craft wondrous item in core, not anything special. I was asking if we could use the 6000 gp for a 4th level character for crafting - it effectively increases the potential wealth by a bit, depending on loadout and selections.
On unchained action economy - there is no way to full-attack. You can never gain a 4th iterative from full BAB, and a feat like Rapid shot ("when you make a full attack") has no way to be triggered.
Oooohhhhh....
You know, the question I always ask myself whe deciding whether I should apply for a new campaign is, “what could I do with this setup that I couldn’t normally?”
I think that answer is pretty clear here.
Just to be sure: it’s 50 point-buy before the template is applied? So we have the default physical stats of a wolf?
On unchained action economy - there is no way to full-attack. You can never gain a 4th iterative from full BAB, and a feat like Rapid shot ("when you make a full attack") has no way to be triggered.
Are you sure that's right? Creatures can use 3 AP to make all natural attacks, so a hydra can attack 12 times, even with this system. I suppose -- I'd resolve it the same way -- 3 AP to make all your BAB attacks. I have to look into this.
Oooohhhhh....
You know, the question I always ask myself whe deciding whether I should apply for a new campaign is, “what could I do with this setup that I couldn’t normally?”I think that answer is pretty clear here.
Just to be sure: it’s 50 point-buy before the template is applied? So we have the default physical stats of a wolf?
yes, 50pt. before template. I'm still looking at options for the werewolf template, there are several
you mean default stats of wolf in wolf form?
I'm looking at options for werewolf -- do people want to do it by template or class feature
Another idea is to drop the gunslinger requirement, and instead you have to have one gestalt be a lycanthrope equivalent like a shifter or other options from this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/7c4gxt/werewolf_like_class archetype/
thoughts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werewolf:_The_Apocalypse#Glass_Walkers
This is a good setting overview -- I'm also open to someone being a non-werewolf (notice the other changing breeds), but I want most players to be werewolves
I like the gunslinger angle. The Multiclass Archetypes are new to me... Very cool! Would we want a Gunslinger primary, or does it matter as long as gunslinger is in there? can we use regular archetypes with MCA classes, as long as all the modified features are there?
This template by Dreamscarred Press is the most flexible Template EDIT: so that would be my preference.
On the full attacking - yes, that's the only way I have found that it is interpreted. Natural attacks got a boost. I'd have no problem with a houserule that 3 AP = full attack, whether that meant 3 attacks or 4; I think the iterative attacks are completely replaced in the new action economy.
I'll throw in my vote for the template- can we archetype the Gunslinger side? Or alternatively, could one side of the gestalt be one of the gun-related archetypes from a different class? Not sure that's what I'd do, just figuring out my options.
Yeah, rereading the template I saw it was just for hybrid/wolf form with the replaced stats. That was my question, sorry (was on my phone before).
I like the gunslinger angle. The Multiclass Archetypes are new to me... Very cool! Would we want a Gunslinger primary, or does it matter as long as gunslinger is in there? can we use regular archetypes with MCA classes, as long as all the modified features are there?
This template by Dreamscarred Press is the most flexible Template EDIT: so that would be my preference.
On the full attacking - yes, that's the only way I have found that it is interpreted. Natural attacks got a boost. I'd have no problem with a houserule that 3 AP = full attack, whether that meant 3 attacks or 4; I think the iterative attacks are completely replaced in the new action economy.
I like that template
yes to all your questions -- gunslinger just has to be in there and you can add additional archetypes if they don't conflict.
I'm not sure on the iterative attack question -- I need to look at that. I thought you did get penalties for successive attacks still.
i'd rather use the system from unchained where there are no iterative attacks and the degree of success of your attack role determines how many times you hit. have you tried that system?
I'll throw in my vote for the template- can we archetype the Gunslinger side? Or alternatively, could one side of the gestalt be one of the gun-related archetypes from a different class? Not sure that's what I'd do, just figuring out my options.
Yeah, rereading the template I saw it was just for hybrid/wolf form with the replaced stats. That was my question, sorry (was on my phone before).
all the class options are fine.
Sweet. Probably going Trench Fighter (if that's all right)//something (likely either druid or shaman, unless I find something insanely awesome elsewhere). I recently discovered just how awesome fighters have gotten recently, and especially with the amount of 3pp options there are that could work for martials, I can have some serious fun.
Personally, I kind of like the Paizo lycanthrope template, but maybe that's just me.
The DSP and Paizo templates are pretty close - the DSP gives you a few more options, while the Paizo one locks you into fewer choices but gives you some DR as well.
I'm happy if people want to use different templates (everyone doesn't have to use the same one) or the archetypes I liked above, I just need people to somehow be werewolves
What about taking the Skinwalker race?
that would be fine too
Also, I’m going with a very Dex-based build, could I flavor mine as being a Werecoyote? No mechanical difference (though I’d even take some small malus to get the flavor, maybe a die step decrease in natural attack damage or something).
that's fine, I just don't want a bunch of non werewolves. one is fine
I'm certainly interested in trying out this campaign. Don't know too much about the setting, so I'll have to read up on this as well.
Would it be alright if I use the Legendary Gunslinger 3rd party class? It basically gunslinger, but revamped to be more like unchained rogue-ish.
Speaking of, I'm currently thinking Legendary Gunslinger/Unchained Rogue and going full marksman build. The 3/4 BAB is going to suck for feat progression and accuracy, but I think all of the other talents make that up in versatility. And if my character does their job correctly, they'll be hitting from flatfoot anyway.
legendary gunslinger is fine
that's fine, I just don't want a bunch of non werewolves. one is fine
What’s in a name? Before “coyote” became the most widespread name, they were often called Prairie Wolves or Lesser Wolves. But I’ll probably stick to a werewolf, don’t want to hurt my odds of getting in.
Is the Moonbound werewolf variant allowed? Depending on the time of month, it could be stronger or weaker than the base template, but is also super cool and thematic.
yeah that's fine
Just to answer a bit more the question of what that campaign will be about -- I think it will open with a murder mystery -- there are several Mormon corpses discovered that are mutilated as if they had violated their temple oaths (throat slit, etc.).
So, I am thinking a Focused Sniper (with Fearsome Defender archetype) 4 / Spiritbound Shaman (Bones) 4 (Trickster and Heirophant Paths). Both of those are MCA's I discovered today thanks to this recruitment. I am assuming that Guns Everywhere replacing "Gunsmisthing" with "Gun Training" happens for other archetypes that get "Gunsmithing" under a different name - specifically,the focuses sniper in this case.
Basically, a loner with a gun who scares the everything out of everything, and can never quite be fully seen. I'll flesh things out some more if I get in - I'm still working through the implications of Wound/Vigor and Armor as DR, not having played with those systems before.
EDIT: After looking at the Legendary Gunslinger, I may have to backtrack and go that route instead..
honestly, it's hard to get people to finish making characters for these sorts of games, if you finish you can probably play. I'm willing to take 8, and there might be places to fill in if people drop out.
I've had a lot of difficulty keeping a steady party for my Dark Sun game, so I'm planning on accepting a large party and potentially having to recruit again several times if the same pattern holds.
Are old characters allowed? I'm trying to figure out what I want to do, but I keep coming back to the idea of a shamanistic figure, drawing his power from nature and the spirits that keep haunting him.
You mean the character is itself physically old or you want to retool and character you used in a previous game? I'm fine with either, I'm just trying to potentially think of plot lines for the first idea.
As in, chronologically old. with Mythic, that doesn’t absolutely mean physically old, but more just a sort of world-worn, having seen times change and the West get domesticated. Someone who’s seen it all, essentially.
I'll be thinking about this one. Werewolves and the old west is definitely a combination I can get behind.
that sounds interesting -- you would have to have some interesting explanation for your longevity if we're talking beyond normal human lifespan.
I think it will be pretty fun.
The first adventure that's banging around in my head will be a murder mystery with the heroes investigating a series of ritual murders in Salt Lake City, seemingly committed by the Mormons to hide temple secrets.
I also have some ideas for rural wilderness adventures.