Olimpia Beta II |
Unsure about exactly the mechanic here. Are you saying that even with her rogue trick to use fire arms Olimpia cannot use these postols? Could they be taken apart and all their parts be used to make one or two good pistols?
Jeremiah Johnston |
Well, he said they were battered pistols. Read as written, only the Gunslinger that starts with that pistol can use said pistol correctly. To anyone else, it would be treated as broken, even to JJ.
JJ can possibly make something usable out of them, but that's the GM's call since they sell of 4d10gp worth of scrap metal each.
Dilana Hemlock |
I was just going to ask if the gunslingers could fix them up. Even if not Dilana would like to carry one, unloaded, to look cool. After all teenagers think guns are cool right?
Olimpia Beta II |
Interesting side note: In general I know the rules very well, but I do not know guns as I am usually all "Keep your guns out of my fantasy game". But that sorta has to go by the wayside with this AP so now I am having to learn about guns. lol. The rule where only the owner of the gun can use it seems very contrived. I do no not like it from a flavor point. The game developers could have done better.
Raktar Garnok |
That's only for the free gun that the gunslinger gets at level 1.
It seems very sensible to me, otherwise it would be very open to abuse.
GM_DBH |
Considering what a standard pistol costs it's way too open for abuse if they don't put that restriction it. It is artificial, but it's needed, otherwise Gunslingers would be unplayable.
The first thing a player would do is sell the pistol and buy masterwork weapons and armor, throwing off the balance completely.
Olimpia Beta II |
While I understand your point I do not understand why guns have to cost so much in the first place. Other than the touch attack aspect they are at least initially no better than a bow. A good archer can outdamage someone with a pistol unless you get into the musketmaster or other shenanigans. Seems like keeping powder cost high is enough limitation, no?
Dilana Hemlock |
I think the cost is more about the rarity of such items then it is about balance. It is probably also a nod to many people not loving the idea of firearms in there swords and spells world.
Dilana would still like to carry one of the broken guns, mostly as decoration.
Raktar Garnok |
As Dilana says, it's a rarity issue.
They're only manufactured in quantity, and some would say quality, in Alkenstar, and apparently the manufacturers prefer it that way to keep prices up.
Olimpia Beta II |
Question - With the pistols we recently acquired how many bullets and rounds of powder did we recover? Olimpia has borrowed Roga's Pistol but would rather not shoot up his ammo.
And can someone school me on the action to load a pistol? Is it a move action, a full round action, or more? And what does having a cartridge do for that? And we can make up our own cartridges?
Dilana Hemlock |
* It is a standard action to reload a pistol.
* This can be reduced to a move action with rapid reload or academical cartridges.
* With both academical cartridges and rapid reload it is a swift action.
There is a feat to let you make your own stuff if you have the supplies.
Jeremiah Johnston |
I think you need a gun smith kit to do so, JJ could make them for you yes.
Need a gunsmith kit, the Gunsmithing feat, and at least one point in Craft(Alchemy) for the cartridges. I lack one of those qualities currently I'm afraid.
Olimpia Beta II |
Like other crafting, can you work together with Figgy to meet all the requirements? Not asking you specifically to do so, but it would be good to know what you can do.
Roga, savage technologist |
GM: what was the reason for splitting the party up in three initiative groups? You realize that means that you have to 'wait' three times (potentially 24 hours each time) for 1 round of combat.
Why not continue to use block initiative as we were before?
Dilana Hemlock |
Speaking form the perspective of a GM in other games I have found that some encounters just do not lend themselves to block initiative. This is particularly the case where there is a group of enemies and one is the 'leader'.
I also learned the hard way that in block initiative things can get messy if the npc's have multiple casters.
Not trying to answer for you GM_DBH just throwing in my experience.
Roga, savage technologist |
Speaking form the perspective of a GM in other games I have found that some encounters just do not lend themselves to block initiative. This is particularly the case where there is a group of enemies and one is the 'leader'.
I also learned the hard way that in block initiative things can get messy if the npc's have multiple casters.
Not trying to answer for you GM_DBH just throwing in my experience.
Yes, I have considered this as well when the enemies are 'really different'. However, I never found it worth the extra time it takes to split up initiatives.
Multiple casters shouldn't be any problem than if you do regular initiative and they end up in consecutive order.
Again, I'm fine but I was just curious why the change.
GM_DBH |
I'm experimenting with the initiative structure because I'm starting to see a problem as you gain more levels. Block init is easy to use and convenient for PBP, but as we reach higher levels having a group of enemies able to blast the party with their best attacks could end up with a lot of fatalities.
This structure I'm using has it's problems as you've pointed out, and really suffers when the fight is large and has a variety of opponents facing you.
It does work well in small fights and with low level characters as I've found in other games I'm running, but I'd already started tweaking it here as it was slowing things down.
Olimpia Beta II |
I agree. With +7 init, and the ability to do sneak attack damage IF i go first I would not be happy with some average party init system either. I have seen DMs try that.
Roga, savage technologist |
No, block initiative does NOT penalize those that have higher initiatives since it does NOT average the initiatives of the PCs. It averages the initiatives of the opponents.
Round 1
Roll initiatives individually for PCs
Roll initiatives for opponents as one block (average or take highest if the GM wants)
Just making numbers for sake of simplicity.
Let's assume 4 PCs with initiative results of:
10, 15, 24, 3
Opponents initiative is 13 (either average or highest).
PC 2 and PC 3 go (potentially catching opponents flat-footed)
Opponents go
The ENTIRE party goes. PC 1 and PC 4 for Round 1 and PC 2 and PC 3 for Round 2.
Opponents go for Round 2 and the ENTIRE party goes again.
Repeat until combat is over.
-------------
With this system, you only have a couple of players waiting during the first round of combat when those PC that beat the opponents go. Then there's no more waiting as everyone gets to act.
Let me know if this is not clear and I'll try to find another to explain.
Olimpia Beta II |
If you go average that penalizes the enemy.
I recall one encounter where the DG rolled once for all 4 specters. He rolled hit. All hit my 8th elven fighter. On his turn he was level 1 and had lost 8 levels before he could act. He had a good init but that one init roll from the GM was lucky and beat it. Odds were that all 4 would not have.
Raktar Garnok |
I just want to say that I'm not fussed either way.
The current system does seem a little slower, but it's quite a diverse fight with lots of enemy groups. It would probably work well in smaller combats with fewer enemy groups, but I can see the arguments for and against.
From my point of view, I like to be able to go earlier in the round to make sure I can get group buffs off ASAP, but I'm not wedded to it.
Roga, savage technologist |
If you go average that penalizes the enemy.
I recall one encounter where the DG rolled once for all 4 specters. He rolled hit. All hit my 8th elven fighter. On his turn he was level 1 and had lost 8 levels before he could act. He had a good init but that one init roll from the GM was lucky and beat it. Odds were that all 4 would not have.
After running a few APs you'll see that most enemies have very similar initiative modifiers so averaging is not that bad.
Your example was just a bout of bad luck that could have occurred if your PC had rolled really low. Things like that will always happen but you can't make rules for exceptions.
Personally I think momentum is key to a successful PBP and I'm Ok with lumping enemies in one block to speed up the game. That way, one round should take 24 hours. If PCs are interspersed with enemies then one round of combat can take days (3-4 days depending on how many groups you have).
Again, just my opinion.
Not my game so I won't be making any decisions either way.
GM_DBH |
There will be some very happy people.
Loot:
Hide armor - 2.
MW Chain shirt - 2.
+1 Mithral shirt.
Axe muskets - 2.
MW Double barreled pistol - 2.
Rapier - 2.
+1 Musket.
+1 Double barreled pistol.
Wand of Magic missile (CL7. 10 charges).
+1 Ring of protection.
Handy Haversack
Beneficial Bandoleer.
Bullets - 18
Black powder - 18
Alchemical cartridges(paper) - 37.
Mage shots* (electricity, 2).
Mage shots* (fire, 2).
Spellbook.
1st - mage armor, magic missile, shield.
2nd - bullet shield UC, scorching ray, sonic scream ACG.
3rd - fireball, fly, lightning bolt.
Spell component pouch.
Silverdisks - 37.
Gold - 243.
Silver 617.
Raktar Garnok |
Not much desire for any of that loot, other than one of the masterwork chain shirts for armour pyjamas.
HP: 1d8 ⇒ 5
Levelling complete. Not a lot of goodies at 5th for an oracle.
Oracle 5
HP - 5 + 2 (Con) + 1 (FC)
Skill points - Heal, Knowledge (planes), Knowledge (religion), Perception
Background skill points - Craft (weapons), Knowledge (engineering)
Favoured class bonus - HP
BAB - +3
Saves - Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +4
Spells known - +1 1st level (remove fear), +1 2nd level (protection from technology)
Spells per day - +1 2nd level
Curse development - immunity to sickened condition
Revelation development - Armour Mastery (when wearing metal armour you reduce ACP by 1, increase max Dex bonus allowed by armour by 1)
Olimpia Beta II |
Loot: Olimpia will put her name in the hat for the +1 ring. She started with a +1 mithral chain shirt so that can go to someone else.
The double barrelled pistol sounds great for her but it might be better for someone else. She would like her own gun at some point. Since she does not use a shield I guess she could use the musket too, right?
Leveling: Another level of Rogue - but might multiclass next level...
HP: 1d8 ⇒ 8
BAB stays at +3. Saves do not increase. :(
Olimpia gains Rogue's Edge and sneak attack dice increases to 3d6.
She gains a feat - unsure what just yet. Looking
And she gains a pile of skill points. :) (10)
Raktar Garnok |
Oh yeah, a feat. Totally forgot about that!
Craft Magic Arms and Armour it is.
Dilana Hemlock |
Things I am interested in (bold are most intrested in):
Wand of Magic missile (CL7. 10 charges).
Handy Haversack - this might be better on someone else I just think they are extra cool.
Spellbook.
So GM, the internet mostly says no on this but I am asking you not the internet. I would love to learn these spells as I can form a scroll but the process for a witch is weird and it is not specifically listed as possible.
A witch basically burns a scroll and feeds it to her familiar. Can I try this well spellbook pages? I will level up after this is worked out because it effects spell selection.
HP: 1d6 ⇒ 2
Olimpia Beta II |
That Beneficial Bandolier is nice too. I think JJ should get first pick of the gunslinger stuff though. Plus i am not really on those rules so do not know what helps each person the most.
Does Dilana have magic missile on her spell list?
Dilana Hemlock |
Oh, that is a good point. A witch does not get magic missile which I always forget because it is kind of magic 101.
I rescind that request. It is possible that there may not be one items of use to Dilana in this AP lol.
Jeremiah Johnston |
1d10 ⇒ 9
I'll take that roll. Let's see... goodies from my level up include DEX to damage (finally) and... that's it beside some minor boosts. As for my feat, I think it's about time to get Deadly Aim. I have no plans on going the dual wielding gunslinger route. Too much reloading involved. I think I will be gearing up to try and build my own railgun though. Why? Because railguns are awesome.
As for the loot, I am always a fan of restocking spent bullets. I am also a fan of that Beneficial Bandoleer and one (or both just to keep spares for misfires) of those masterwork double barreled pistols. I use the most bullets of all of us and I need a weapon to replace my regular pistol until I can fix it, so I'd say they're good fits. The +1 Double barrel pistol is nice, but I've already got the +1 Inferno Pistol. Olimpia or Roga could use a nice gun like that though since we're the only one's proficient in it. While my armor ain't magic, I already have a Mithril chain shirt, so someone else can claim. If left unclaimed, I won't hesitate to take it though. I just want the Bandoleer and one of those MWK pistols for now though.
Jeremiah Johnston |
Musket: Bigger damage dice and range of 40ft, but needs a full round to reload normally. Good opener for you against the flat footed, but I wouldn't want to use it for the rest of the fight.
Double Barrel Pistol: Two shots in one pistol, -4 when using both simultaneously on the same target, and a 20ft range. Reload is a standard action. Not bad for me because of my Rapid Reload feat, but detrimental for someone who wants to get the most out of their damage per round.
It's what your gut would say honestly. Those alchemical cartridges help reduce the reload time by one step, but also bring up their misfire value to 1-3, which is why I'm not really a fan of using them for now.
Figgy Greasefitter |
Avg HP of 5
Spell: Spider Climb
Feat: Craft Technological Items
Skills: +1
bombs: Increased to 3d6 and 9/day
Springy +2 AC as his mod, now he is AC 20 and DR 2/Adamantine
Olimpia Beta II |
Seems you would prefer the double barrel pistol so I will be happy with the rifle. And you are right that it will usually be an opener. Better range means I get the full 30' sneak attack range as a touch attack. Will likely fire it in surprise rounds or when I cannot move and attack in the first round. Then drop it and move in with swords. So no need to play to ever use alchemical cartridges, though she might want to carry a half dozen.
Roga, savage technologist |
Olimpia, do you want to keep the pistol lent to you or will you return that?
JJ: I'm assuming you're taking the +1 double-barreled pistol? Is the MW double-barreled pistol available?
Roga, savage technologist |
Roga, 3rd level barbarian, 2nd level ranger
hit points: 1d12 ⇒ 1, nope, average +1 it is :)
+10 hit points (7 class+2 con+1 fav bonus);
+1 bab;
+1 ref save;
+1 will save;
+1 danger sense (perception, reflex save, and AC vs traps);
+5 skill ranks (acrobatics, intimidate, k. dungeoneering, perception, survival)
+1 feat toughness (5 hp)
Olimpia Beta II |
Olimpia, do you want to keep the pistol lent to you or will you return that?
JJ: I'm assuming you're taking the +1 double-barreled pistol? Is the MW double-barreled pistol available?
If Olympia gets one of these weapons she will certainly return that pistol. Sounds like we can all have a least a MW double barreled pistol.