The Mouth of Doom (Inactive)

Game Master Grimmy

Hound wrote:

Healing by leveling isn't usually done. Just the heal by resting, but I have no problems with it. ;)

So you're max hp goes up but your wounds are still there right? That's what I do at home but I wasn't sure if it was another one of my "hard-mode things I've done so long I forgot it was a house-rule" kind if things.

I would think the fairest way to do it would be to have your current and max HP increase by the new level's hp. So, if before leveling you were at 10/21, and you gained 9 hp. Then after leveling you would be at 19/30.

Yeah, same thing I think. If you were at 21 max with 11 damage that's 10 remaining. 30 max with 11 damage is 19 remaining. Works out the same.

Gucchi. So... I think we've run far enough from danger. Lets take a break guys!

Haha, so I sense a... Leveling urge?

Relax, and enjoy things while life is simple ;)

Who are you and what have you done with Raziel!?

5/6 said head on down the trail, is that as much unanimity as you can hope for in PbP or should I wait for Ogrim to weigh in?

Hey, I want to level as much as the next guy. But Raziel wants to stick his head in every hole he founds, probe any NPC he encounters, and scout any population they meet - he's just like that :D

He also likes the smell of dew... So...

Just enjoying it before he gets corrupted by absolute arcane power ;)

Mmmm... Dew.

It involves a tree. What the heck does Ghae care about trees. Oh, wait. Thats all she cares about. Hmmm.

*thumpf*

Is this thing on?

Go away Demi-Lich. No souls here.

I need to run something by you guys.

I'm not sure how to handle it so I'm just going to come out and ask.

The hag has been tracking you with survival. I thought you would be able to shake her since she has to move half-speed to track you, but she rolled high enough to track you and still move full speed, for the second time now.

As far as I can tell, by all rights she is upon you.

I have this feeling there's something more I could have done to be transparent though.

What do you guys think? How should I handle this.

Give us perception checks, see if we notice. Give us a chance to react. If we have to fight the thing of we just do.

Technically she is listening to you right now from 180', with a stealth score of 26 before the distance modifier. She would probably wait for the dog to stray a little and come to you as the dog. Or just charge in when you camp.

She was moving 20 and you were moving 30, but then she crit and started moving 40 and caught up. Then when you left her in the pine circle she rolled a 19 I think and exceeded the track DC by 5, so moving 40 again....

I've been trying like crazy to drop hints that something wicked this way comes... I was hoping you would think of something like covering your tracks or having Ghaelja lead her off somewhere and double back with woodland stride.

But yeah, unless I missed anything, she's up your @$$ now.

You want to just give it the old college try? Raz crit the know check, you guys can just see the whole stat block anthropophogus

Well, here's how I look at it:

- Usually, being pitted against challenges you cannot overcome sucks;
- However, in my opinion, learning when to fight, and when to bail out NEEDS to be a part of any game. It helps create 'non-forward' players, reagrdless of how resourceful their characters may be (heck, if all my character does is swinging a blade HARD, he can still chose not to do it, and rethink his approach to the encounter);
- I think there should be clues that hint at the nature of the encounter, but this my not always be the case - some may like it or not, but it is definitely not to everyone's taste;
- Frog God games has a reputation for building player killer scenarios/modules/adventures/whatever you want to name it - but I think this is not due only to VERY hard encounters, it is also due to a MMORPG mindset that has been pervasive over the last years (just to clarify I LOVE MMORPGs, so this is not wanton criticism), that players NEED to overcome, and that it is the end purpose of the game, even if you play it as straightforward as possible (even raids or similar become a series of repetitive motions after a while - this debate could go on and on, so I'll just stope here);
- I agree that enjoyment comes from overcoming the challenges - a game where you always lose quickly gets frustrating, but still one of the reasons I am passionate about RPG are the endless possibilities - when a person is running your game instead of a server, or an AI, then ANYTHING can happen, and that is simply amazing;
- That being said, when one walks into a Frog God game, one expects it to be hard, one needs to expect that death can occur, that deadly encounters may be just around the corner - again, some may like the challenge, and others may not. Personally I love it;
- This is one of the reasons I have decided to play with Raziel - I think intel is one of the most important assets when playing such a game. Even though not always, most of the times you need to have a firm grasp of what you are getting into, and I want Raziel to be the guy that helps ascertain that;
- If you play around a table, the responsibility is shared - you can introduce your players to the type of game they are walking into, and they decide how to build their characters - you can offer advice, of course. In a PbP, the responsibility of the GM increases a LOT, because he is the one chosing who is going to play, he will decide if they have the knowledges to ascertain their challenges or not (as above), if they have the resources to overcome their obstacles, etc;
- I think our group is quite balanced as far as mindsets, knowledges, postures and so forth, so as to be successful, and even overcome stuff that at first thought we probably could not;
- Again, I turn to the hints - the GM can drop them, but the players need to be not only willing, but also ABLE to understand them. Furthermore, if they do NOT know what they are up against, and there is no insurmountable, pressing reason, falling back should probably be the option to take;

Wow, this got long, but in a nutshell, we were informed by you Grimmy, that moving into the wild was dangerous - from there on, everything is our option - we took the challenge, and as far-fetched as it may seem, we could simply ignore everything and get back to Zelkor's Ferry without even looking to the side. But the fact is that decisions have consequences, and I am really enjoying the fact that your game is not too episodic. For example, we could have fast-forwarded to Zelkor's Ferry after helping Krulll - that would have been an episode - but instead we are actually playing the return.

And it makes perfect sense to me - the NPCs have depth, and are not only a plot hook, the wilderness is not on pause while we return, etc, etc. I love it man - thank you for how you are running the game ;)

As for this particular case, as a threat gets close we are sure to be allowed Perception rolls, perhaps hear a growl in the distance, and confirm what we already suspected by seeing the monster sniffing at the ground, understand we are being chased, and hussle our movement. Heck, perhaps we should have taken it more seriously the chance that she could follow us, and started moving faster asap - this is the kind of mindset I think we need in this game, and is something I consider a level of gaming very enjoyable - if I wanted to play a shoot'em up I would - this for me is different, and that is why I play it.

Dang, I just keep on writing... Bottom line, drop us some clues/hints (like you did in all honesty) if possible (if not possible, we SHOULD be able to wing it - even if it means running after the first round), and we need to be on top of our game, else adventurers WILL die. Suck it up and move on, adapt or if you find this kind of gaming is not for you, then just say it - I have left games because I was not enjoying myself - the GM was great, the players also, it was only a matter of the style of the game that really did not work for me, and I am here to have fun, not carry out a chore.

....... Was all this text useful in any way, or not really? :D

You want to just give it the old college try? Raz crit the know check, you guys can just see the whole stat block anthropophogus

Yep, she's a beauty :D

She's a TPK, but if that's what the dice foretold so be it.

Worst case scenario, a couple of us can sacrifice ourselves so that the others can escape.

Well Ghaelja's perception check isn't high enough to notice her where she is now, but it's high enough to prevent a surprise round...

This just feels very rocks-fall you die,, but I guess hex-crawling in the Rappan Athuk wilderness was a conscious decision.

I just wanted to check how you guys feel about it.

Dice fall as they may, or bail out?

Well, I can cast Entangle which will slow her down. Then we can take off. The problem is resting.

I can lead her on a wild goose chase through all sorts of brambles and thorns. The hard part will be getting her to follow me and not the rest of you. Also, Trangles is slower than me, although she probably will not care about him unless she is a vegetarian.

Does anyone have expeditious retreat?

I can shoot her with blunt arrows, but that might just make her mad. At the same time I could probably shoot her from a distance and hop into the river to escape. I doubt IC me would be too comfortable with Ghaelja taking the full burden of distracting the Hag, though it is a good strategy.

No Expeditious Retreat Ghae :/

But I have an idea. Dangerous but then again might be our only chance :D

We cannot fight her so... If given a chance, you guys bail out, and Raziel will try to parley. We gotta use my crit knowledge, I have the best social skills, so I will try to offer her something she may appreciate more than us ;)

I have woodland stride and +13 on survival. If I can lead her away through tangles and briars, I should then be able to hide my trail fairly well.

I have the best social skills, so I will try to offer her something she may appreciate more than us ;)

I'm all for Raz trying to give her the D.

I take it hound is staying out of the meta-discussion? A purist :)

Raziel Drakan wrote:

I have the best social skills, so I will try to offer her something she may appreciate more than us ;)

I'm all for Raz trying to give her the D.

I thought he meant he was going to bribe her with babies to eat.

I thought he meant he was going to bribe her with babies to eat.

Darn right he did... And I'm done. Seriously Ghael's plan is gold.

Guys... First of all, are there even tangles and briars? Second, how far would they span for? What then? And why would she chase you into the briars when the slow snails are plodding along? I mean, we can try but...

And I was aiming at something even better than babies :D

I wasn't talking since I was busy with work.

We tried to bail since we determined that the hag was too much and I was very much thinking that this was a fight we needed to avoid so I urged us to skeedadle

However Krull started going on about his drugs and was all set to run away/throw himself down in a tantrum and so here we are arguing.

Rather than suffer a drawn out TPK I'll just bow out here. Just assume Hound sacrificed his body like Ridley did when we ate her.

Cool it guys this is a family place.

x_x

Guys... First of all, are there even tangles and briars? Second, how far would they span for? What then? And why would she chase you into the briars when the slow snails are plodding along? I mean, we can try but...

And I was aiming at something even better than babies :D

I think she means, she heads off leaving an obvious trail, then when she sees some impassable terrain she uses woodland stride to go where she can't be followed, and double back to you shaking the hag.

I wasn't talking since I was busy with work.

We tried to bail since we determined that the hag was too much and I was very much thinking that this was a fight we needed to avoid so I urged us to skeedadle

However Krull started going on about his drugs and was all set to run away/throw himself down in a tantrum and so here we are arguing.

Rather than suffer a drawn out TPK I'll just bow out here. Just assume Hound sacrificed his body like Ridley did when we ate her.

That Krull banter isn't factoring into anything, it's just RP, not slowing you down or anything.

It's just a case of her exceeding the DC to track by 5 twice in a row, otherwise she would be going half speed.

Raziel Drakan wrote:

Guys... First of all, are there even tangles and briars? Second, how far would they span for? What then? And why would she chase you into the briars when the slow snails are plodding along? I mean, we can try but...

And I was aiming at something even better than babies :D

I think she means, she heads off leaving an obvious trail, then when she sees some impassable terrain she uses woodland stride to go where she can't be followed, and double back to you shaking the hag.

Yup, survival to hide your trail and create one for me. The head for difficult woodland terrain. Lose her, hide my trail, find the party.

It's all academic until the fight starts. With lucky rolls we could theoretically beat her. Which really would be epic.

Well at least you guys have a few choices now, I don't feel like I'm just dropping a ton of bricks on your head. I'm glad I put it out there for discussion.

I put a post in gameplay saying Ghaelja sensed something disquieting in the forest with her perception roll, so you guys can take it from there.

BTW, it's a new day, so Raziel can spellcraft the red syrup again.

I just had a fantastic idea.

Moving this over here...

@DM: Were you saying make another roll or just posting the save DC for perpetuity?

I just had a fantastic idea.

And we're still waiting to hear about the fantastic idea Mr. Demi-Lich ;)

Forced March DC is for anyone wanting to keep moving (been hiking for 11 hours already today.) If you fail you become fatigued, effects how fast you can travel.

The fantastic idea only mattered if things went south.

Well, Raziel is fatigued :/

Ghae is hopefully leading a really nasty monster through swamps, marshes, briars, downed trees, and anything else that might slow the monster, and not the druid. This is sort of like the Bard's Fascinate ability. Something one does not get a chance to use often, so when it comes up you have to take advantage of it.

Believe me, the question is legit - I had no idea we could do a second fort check after failing a first one in such a close temporal proximity, and that is why I asked - there are many detail rules of Pathfinder I do not master (you probably noticed me asking multiple times about stealth in this or that situation).

My doubt is regarding the mechanics of it all (not about the definition of 'second wind :D)- I saw your character missed a Con roll (9 vs DC12) just a few posts back, in what may have been like what, 2 minutes of game time? When I saw you roll again so soon I got confused. Since I have missed my roll also, I was asking if we get to roll a 'second wind' roll or something else I may be missing - I remember there was something like that in D&D, I think? So, you actually made the first roll then?

There's no "second wind" mechanic, but you still roll on subsequent hours of forced marching to see if you take non-lethal damage. You don't lose the fatigued condition if you succeed, you just avoid additional damage.

Nothing wrong with describing that as a second wind though.

Ghae is hopefully leading a really nasty monster through swamps, marshes, briars, downed trees, and anything else that might slow the monster, and not the druid. This is sort of like the Bard's Fascinate ability. Something one does not get a chance to use often, so when it comes up you have to take advantage of it.

I know, so freakin cool.

Of course not, I was just asking what it was 'mechanically' :D

So, if you miss the first, you become Fatigued.

Then you have to roll every hour to see if you take non-lethal damage - is that it?

Here's my next question - if you are fatigued, you cannot run or charge, but you still can move beyond the 8 hours if you make the save DC for the Forced March, correct? Still, how does it impact your travel speed? I think I am mixing up a couple of things in my head: Fatigued -> Exhausted with Forced March -> Non-Lethal damage...

GO GHAE! :D

So, if you forced march, you have to make a con check. If you fail you take 1d6 non-lethal damage and become fatigued. Fatigued condition normally goes away after 8 solid hours of complete rest. In the case of fatigue from forced marching it also goes away if the non-lethal damage gets healed.

Normally you roll the check after deciding to march, to see if you take damage and get fatigued, but what's been happening is, when I announce the DC so you guys can make an informed decision about whether or not to continue, everyone has been rolling immediately and deciding whether to continue or not based on the result. That's a little different than I've done it before but it seemed like no big deal to me.

I guess I've forgotten to apply the non-lethal damage a couple of times, I was thinking no-one had kept going after failing a check.

Ok, so if I fail the initial Con check, I take 1d6 non-lethal AND become fatigued. Got it. But can I continue with the forced march, or it must stop right there and then?

Because I was under the impression that forced march meant only that you were travelling more than 8 hours in a day. It does not necessarily mean you are jogging, or anything like that, does it?

Right. Forced march means any overland travel in excess of 8 hours a day.

You can keep doing it until the non-lethal damage knocks you unconscious, pretty much.

Also, you're right about the conditions, my bad. Only Exhausted halves your speed, not Fatigued.

8PM con checks:
It's currently 8PM, you have already been forced marching for 2 hours today. Prior to this check, no one is fatigued. You all made the last check, and the encounter with the Kingsbride occurred during the hour of travel covered by that check.

Now it's 8PM, the party and Ghaelja have split. Continuing on will require a DC 12 Con Check to avoid non-lethal damage and fatigue.

As far as I know, only Eli has attempted his check (he did so on friday, RL friday.)

Eli's second attempt just now using a Fort save was in error, he was right the first time when he used a Con check on friday. Eli takes 1d6 non-lethal damage and gains the fatigued condition.

Everyone else who just rolled their 8PM check for the first time roled Fort Saves instead of Con Checks. I kept the raw dice rolls, only Hound actually succeeded.

I will make a macro for doing this in the future for ease of play.

I hope I finally explained that right :)

So anyway having people fail this check can't slow down the party cause they'll be fatigued not exhausted.

Krull is exhausted though (fatigued from red syrup withdrawals, exhausted from failing con check from forced march when already fatigued) so he is only moving 1 mile an hour through difficult terrain.