The Mouth of Doom (Inactive)

Game Master Grimmy

The jelly-bean - It is neither made of jelly nor is it a bean. Discuss!

^^Guys please do the thing where you put mini stats in the class/level field of the profile so they show up here, like this.

Bam! Still working on the backstory write-up and personality of this guy, but I'm about to go into a meeting that's supposed to last 2-3 hours. Like I said in recruitment, I'll finish his profile once I get home.

Grimmy, how are we gearing up?

Max starting gold for level 1 by class or 150gp whichever's greater.

Updated to reflect 150 starting gp. Will add stat line a little later. Can anyone suggest a better last name than boomwing? I may just give him a title like Quetzal of the Thundering Sky or something. Thunderbird mythology played heavily into my thought process for this character.

Getting ready to head to class, will add stat thingy under name when time becomes available today. EDIT: test, think I did it...EDIT2: Third time's a charm. Now I'm really really going to class ;)

As to the subject at hand...at least they're better than candy corn. Tastes nothing like candy or corn, where jellybeans at least taste vaguely similar to jelly (ie sweet).

Welcome Ridley, have a great class.

HP for lvl 2: 1d10 ⇒ 10 forgot to do this earlier. So yay for me!

There we go. His page should be ready. I was having a lot of trouble writing out his backstory, so it's pretty abbreviated at the moment, but hits the major points until I can take some more time and really elaborate on it, but that will probably come out as IC during the postings.

Grimmy, thanks! Hoping to. It's a creative writing class and only the second day. In my experience writing classes are either a blast or horrible, with very little middle ground. So here's hoping for the former.

A ranger a monk and a me so far. Think I'm going to switch Grease out for that Cure spell if that's alright.

Out of curiosity, was the no on Dervish Dance due to it being in a disallowed book or from a dislike of the feat? Curious more than anything. Bonus feat will be Improved Initiative.

Heya this is Alrik's profile. He's a level 2 Magus but I still have to make some changes as I can't take Hexcrafter.

Is Dervish Dance an allowed feat?

It is from an AP isn't it? I'm taking a hard line stance on stuff outside the hardcovers, no exceptions.

I have a balancing act to perform, my other group has some members who are used to playing with me in CRB only games, and I promised to maintain "old school feel with new school rules" like Necromancer Games/FGG motto! I've already had one player withdraw because of options I opened.

You might not see why that is relevant in this game, but it will become clear later. In a nutshell, the two groups are playing in tandem, in the same sandbox. The impact of each group on the game world can be felt by the other, and I might experiment with the possibility of roster exchanges at different breaking points in the campaign if a certain quest or dungeon raid appeals to some members from each group but not others.

Might be an ambitious experiment, but I've pulled it off in home games, so I'm keeping it on the table as a possibility.

If I'm wrong about where dervish dance is sourced from let me know, and thanks in advance for understanding!

Dervish Dance is from the Inner Sea World Guide, so by your hard stance, it won't be allowed. Also by not having hexcraft or DD in this game you've probably just eliminated the top five Magus builds available IMHO.

Woof

OK if both of you wanted dervish dance, go for it. The guy who would object has officially withdrawn. Re-skin/re-fluff as needed to make it not golarian-centric. i will just think of it as improved weapon finesse or something like that.

Woof

Arff?

As to the subject at hand...at least they're better than candy corn. Tastes nothing like candy or corn, where jellybeans at least taste vaguely similar to jelly (ie sweet).

I'm the only person I have ever met who likes candy corn.

So I'm not trying to entice you to trash talk anyone, but what did the guy's argument entail? Why was he scared off by more crunch?

I had promised him I would preserve a nostalgic old-school feel, which is something I also enjoy very much.

It's bad form that I aired this out here. He was in every way shape and form within his rights to withdraw from a game that became something not to his taste. Taste is completely subjective, there's no wrong answer, you know? And I even happen to share his tastes largely.

He joined a game with a list of parameters and left it when the game went outside those parameters. No harm no foul.

If it's an issue at all I'm perfectly fine with not using Dervish Dance. The parameters discussed aren't exactly my idea of old school, but they were there when I showed up, and as said already, different tastes aren't wrong, just different, so I'm fine abiding by them. That said, if the feat is allowed, I'm all over it.

As for the guy withdrawing, if the difference is feat and someone I don't know walking away, or no feat and random person staying, I'll happily drop the feat. Sounds like it's not pending on the feat alone, or likely a moot point at this stage, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

Furthering the subject of contradictory candy...not that you've met them, but my mom and daughter both seem to like candy corn. I'm guessing you three are the only people on the planet who actually like the stuff. Vodka and coffee seems to be my thing no one else likes, and that being with most of my friends liking both separate.

I'll go ahead and respond here as I am the person who withdrew; it was actually Gimmy's other game, The Wizard's Amulet, btw.

I am an old school gamer who still prefers the simplicity of 1st Edition AD&D. I had been out of the gaming scene for almost 20 years and when I came back and looked at D&D it was 4th Edition. Well, that didn't appeal to me AT ALL, so I looked at Pathfinder which I had heard was supposed to be more faithful to the previous versions of D&D. It is...to an extent but not as much as I would prefer. Especially, not the additional books beyond the Core Rule book.

I find Pathfinder leads to more min/maxing, optimizing, power-gaming play than what I am comfortable with particularly when optional races, alternate racial traits and archetypes are added into the mix. Don't even get me started on Summoners. ;)

So...short answer: I am an old-fogey who likes living in the past and playing D&D the RIGHT way (read: the way I played 20 years ago). Obviously, I am joking here, as Grimmy said there is no "right or wrong" in gaming, there is only what you enjoy. The game that was going to be played was probably not going to be something I enjoyed. That is not meant as a slam against anyone, GM or player. Different strokes for different folks.

I have every confidence that Grimmy is going to provide a kick-ass experience for all involved. Good luck and have a blast everyone!

Since I'm not involved with the DD/Hexcrafter back and forth, I want to throw in that I love candy corn. So now there are four of us. My favorite thing to mix vodka with is shisha. Gets you all sorts of f+!!ed up.

@Ridley Brix:
No, you're right, my game isn't proper old-school. Drow as PC for example would make EGG roll in his grave. I know that. Like I say it's all very subjective. There is a nostalgia factor around the games I remember as a kid, and while I can never go back to crunch-lite systems now, there are many things in PF that just annihilate the nostalgia factor for me to the degree there's no longer any point in playing. For me that is alchemists with vestigial arms, synth summoners, gunslingers. Rather then proclaiming "old-school" I should have just said "stuff I like", but we use words to label things so we can try to find people with commonality, you know what I mean? That's all I want to do is find people willing to work within some parameters that I consider to be a happy medium I'm comfortable with.

Anyway I have no reservations about allowing DD. I probably should have from the get-go, because there might not be a guaranteed way of getting agile weapon property for quite some time, and I don't want the game to be without any means of dex to damage.

Sorry for airing out my situation here, I just got frustrated I couldn't make everyone happy. The problem was with my own lack of communication and consistency. Let's just go forward from here!

I'll go ahead and respond here as I am the person who withdrew; it was actually Gimmy's other game, The Wizard's Amulet, btw.

I am an old school gamer who still prefers the simplicity of 1st Edition AD&D. I had been out of the gaming scene for almost 20 years and when I came back and looked at D&D it was 4th Edition. Well, that didn't appeal to me AT ALL, so I looked at Pathfinder which I had heard was supposed to be more faithful to the previous versions of D&D. It is...to an extent but not as much as I would prefer. Especially, not the additional books beyond the Core Rule book.

I find Pathfinder leads to more min/maxing, optimizing, power-gaming play than what I am comfortable with particularly when optional races, alternate racial traits and archetypes are added into the mix. Don't even get me started on Summoners. ;)

So...short answer: I am an old-fogey who likes living in the past and playing D&D the RIGHT way (read: the way I played 20 years ago). Obviously, I am joking here, as Grimmy said there is no "right or wrong" in gaming, there is only what you enjoy. The game that was going to be played was probably not going to be something I enjoyed. That is not meant as a slam against anyone, GM or player. Different strokes for different folks.

I have every confidence that Grimmy is going to provide a kick-ass experience for all involved. Good luck and have a blast everyone!

Uncanny parallels. 15 year hiatus here, came back and 4e was on the shelf (the shelf of my little brother 18 years my junior to be precise, and he was begging me to play). I looked at the books and something inside me wanted to riot. It was the intensity of my reaction that made me reallize deep down inside I still cared about gaming.

We went to the gamestore to see if they had any used AD&D manuals, which they did not, but I flipped through Pathfinder CRB and everything looked familiar. Bought CRB and Bestiary and never looked back.

Actually I have looked back... tried some retro-clones and such, but I have found that I'm now in love with the game within the game that all the crunch of modern D20 provides. So I strive to capture an aesthetic that I can only brand old-school for lack of a better word, while still using enough options that no two characters have to look the same mechanically or thematically.

In the old days every character could have a personality, but my god, mechanically? a fighter was a fighter was a fighter.

OK with that out of the way, for those who don't know Edeldhur is taking a poll to see what he should play. He will fill the last seat in this game. It's either Tiefling Oracle/Paladin or Tiefling Arcane Trickster, I think. He has asked for the six of you to vote :)
More details in the recruitment thread.

Logan...thanks for shedding light on the issue. I guess you could say I have a pretty broad taste in settings, though I can definitely relate. The first official setting I got into was Darksun (played a bit of first ed generic adventures before this), and though I avoided 4th edition when it came out, I did start to consider it when I found out the rereleased Athas. Saw dragonkin, tieflings, and deities, and threw up a little in my mouth...

Eli, shisha? I'm intrigued...

Grimmy...agreed on the fighter issue....same with wizards/magic users. Cast my vote already, though I keep wanting to waffle :)

Just checking in. Still need to flesh him out.

On a note unrelated to editions of the game and candy preferences (yes, Vodka counts as candy)...we will be starting in Bard's Gate or no? I was looking over the campaign info and reading up on laws I may or may not be breaking in the near future :)

No we are not starting in Bard's Gate, I included that stuff because there is precious little fluff material published about the setting and i figured people who like that sort of thing could at least read it to get a feel for the tone of the setting. We will start in a tiny frontier settlement and get straight to dungeon bashing.

BOOM! Made it!

Thank you guys and DM Grimmy for having me on board for this one - again I was not expecting an almost absolute unanimous vote on the AT, but here he is [let us see how long he survives with that meager +10 to stealth :D]

Basic Crunch is done, so now I'll finish tweaking him.

That voting thing was fun.

Interesting group we got.

So what exactly is the adventure hook? Deadly dungeon with mad loot, or is there something more? I''m just trying formulate a reason for Ogrim to be here.

Question on traits, would it just be straight rogues and fighters who get them, or do we get them if we multiclass as a rogue or fighter?

I think Raziel should get the traits even if the multiclassing rogues/fighters don't get them normally. He needs magical knack.

Also that's awesome you're allowing DD, Grimmy, its a great feat. Though I can imagine Quetzal won't be too thrilled at the idea of a battle dancer.

Since you've budged a little... how about that garuda-blooded aasimar heritage? Have you softened up a bit on that one?

Hey Grimmy. I've been thinking about making Alric a Paladin as I'm not really super happy with standard Magus and you seem keen on having a divine follower of whatever that deity was.

The background I thought up would also work nicely for a Paladin and I'd only have to swap out academy for temple and remodel some of the motives. Thoughts?

Also a Paladin is likely pretty kick ass for Dungeon Crawling.

Edit: Just noticed the forums must have screwed up when I made Alrik's profile...

Interesting group we got.

So what exactly is the adventure hook? Deadly dungeon with mad loot, or is there something more? I''m just trying formulate a reason for Ogrim to be here.

Deadly dungeon with mad loot is the crux of it, but the character Eli Szardos may know something he's not letting on. There is a plot-hook baked into his character for taking this game beyond the first dungeon and into the campaign at large. The player collaborated with me via PM to get this together and it is at this discretion to reveal info throughout the gameplay.

Would Ogrim not want to raid a dungeon for it's own sake? If not there is plenty we can draw from, let me know.

I think Raziel should get the traits even if the multiclassing rogues/fighters don't get them normally. He needs magical knack.

Also that's awesome you're allowing DD, Grimmy, its a great feat. Though I can imagine Quetzal won't be too thrilled at the idea of a battle dancer.

Since you've budged a little... how about that garuda-blooded aasimar heritage? Have you softened up a bit on that one?

A level of rogue or fighter gets you the two traits but muti-classing both doesn't net you four.

Also anyone else who wants traits can take additional traits with one of their feats.

About garuda... what if I ok that empyreal bloodlines you wanted instead, I feel better about that. Does that work?

Hey Grimmy. I've been thinking about making Alric a Paladin as I'm not really super happy with standard Magus and you seem keen on having a divine follower of whatever that deity was.

The background I thought up would also work nicely for a Paladin and I'd only have to swap out academy for temple and remodel some of the motives. Thoughts?

Also a Paladin is likely pretty kick ass for Dungeon Crawling.

Edit: Just noticed the forums must have screwed up when I made Alrik's profile...

I am keen on it, and not just from personal preference. The adventure calls out the need for multiple divine characters. At home, my group has spurned the warning again and again citing modern thought conventions on the value of healing in combat as you guys did here.

Most recently they started with just an inquisitor. By level 4 the cavalier had muti-classed to Paladin and by level 8 a dead character's player chose cleric for the replacement. Now they are finally all set o_o

I don't know how they do it, but this publisher says up front you need the classic four roles filled plus an extra cleric and if you ignore them, you feel it. That is my experience over and over again.

Also for story reasons, plot-hooks, adventure seeds... some of this will write itself with a devotee of Thyr or Muir along. But I have managed without, and that doesn't come into play until later, after the mouth of doom, so I'm not insisting anyone plays one.

As I stated I can easily play a Paladin. However he will not be focused on healing but he will be able to Ego-heal and would get into baddies face to take the beating for the rest of the crew so that might help some.

So with you're okay I'll scratch the Magus idea and look into a nice Paladin build that works for the existing Background. Not sure if I'll have it together by today but I can manage by tommorow.

Also I'll have to look into Thyr and Muir and how I can build them in.

So we will get our paladin after all ;)

Yes, play what you want ultimately, but from experience running RA, I think it would be a great idea. It's a lot more to it then just the healing. Some of the adventures are written expecting you to be there (either paladin or cleric). It gets frustrating without. This first adventure isn't like that, but if you're sticking around past level 2 you will feel it. I was just going to cross the bridge when I get there but if you go paladin now that's one thing off my list.

Two things though

1. I don't want this to feel like you're settling for your second choice. If that's the case let's find a magus build that satisfies you, just meet me half-way. Maybe hex-crafter no magical lineage?

2. I don't want this to send everyone completely back to the drawing board. Some changes are ok of course, but I'm hoping a few of you are solid on your choices at least conceptually so we can start sooner then later.

About paladins,

I have so far never made one fall. Not saying I'm lenient, but as long as a player picks paladin because they want to play a holy warrior and paragon of good, and not just because Z0MG swift action heals and smite evilz I don't see there being a problem with falling.

Please no one take that as license to make genocidal paladins, but hopefully you know what I mean :)

That whole "your basically an npc class now until you do a quest to atone kthx" is not my idea of fun.

I'm good. My first choice was a hexcrafter (without magical lineage actually). The standard Magus I wasn't really feeling it, just seemed kinda bland mechanically.

But really with the background I wrote I think playing a Paladin would be a lot of fun from an RP perspective. Also for a dungeon crawl a Paladin makes a lot of sense and is a strong choice mechanically so I'm happy.

Raziel is mostly done - just figuring out some last minute skill point allocation, and gear tidbits.

ZOMG swift heals and smite evil ARE nice though :D

I had a fellow player (my brother was GMing) whose paladin fell from grace after killing about half a dozen town guards who were enslaved by a Vampire - was harsh, and he never recovered...

Another thing I may not have said here...

The deities I listed were only converted to PF recently. They don't have subdomains and don't cover all the domains. If you like a deity thematically and don't see a domain or subdomain listed that you think would fit, just ask.

I guess this is only relevant for Ogrim now.

@Alrik: Thyr and Muir had a third sibling, Kel, who I didn't include in the listed because she hasn't been actively worshipped in thousands of years. She was supposed to be dead. But if that's something you would want to RP, first paladin in millennia of a forgotten god, called by a vision kind of thing, let me know I'll get the info up.

ZOMG swift heals and smite evil ARE nice though :D

No argument from me there! I like to Shield Other a glass-cannon or squishy caster, and then touch myself (yeah, I said it.).

I'm very happy running Ridley. If we needed to reshuffle a bit I would be fine making something else, lots of ideas in my head, but if we don't NEED to I'm very content with my halfling. It's going to take longer than I thought to get decent with a scimitar, so I'm going to spend some of today ponder how best to do that and will have her 100% done by tonight. Got my two traits picked, just need to get them on the sheet. (Acrobat, and dirty fighter)

Since you've budged a little... how about that garuda-blooded aasimar heritage? Have you softened up a bit on that one?

Do these guys fly?

Ogrim is all about the mad loot, he is a greedy Dwarf after all. Rumour of such would be enough to lure him to the area. All for the glory and honour of Dwerfater, of course.

On the note of cleric domains, strength and good are just fine.

Everyone: