I'm fine with that Annara, although I had planned on everyone being on the job they had on muster out. So perhaps she's planning on starting such an agency after her final assignments as a diplomat?
Or perhaps a past association between a few select members?
What is your ruling on the Dex as all-combat stat, by the way? (or maybe we should do that thing where everyone gets weapon finesse for free...)
And Laser Dots - they're okay ?
Yeah, they are ok.
And I'm fine with you choosing dex or str for close combat weapons, as long as the weapon makes sense to use dex with. If it's a two-handed greatsword, that's pretty much str. An epee, no matter how strong you are, isn't going to hit better because you used all that strength.
I'm fine with that Annara, although I had planned on everyone being on the job they had on muster out. So perhaps she's planning on starting such an agency after her final assignments as a diplomat?
OK GM, she going to start the Company once she mustered out.
This way she may know some of the others, who at one time or another crossed her path, She may even have asked them if they wish to do work for her once hey muster out and starts up.Ill let the other PCs decide if they wish to be known.
What ya think
Hmm, I just thought up another question regarding the pathfinderization of the game. There are some mechanics and perks that require X nr of skill ranks - or subtracts the number of ranks from a set DC.
Since we don't get extra skill points nor can put more then one rank in at first level - we are effectively 3 ranks behind.
Are we allowed to count the 'class skill bonus' towards such goals?
For example, a Damage Control Officer adds +1 on the repair crew's roll for each 5 ranks he has in the relevant skill.
basic T20 that would be at second level, but pathfinderized it would take five levels to grant that perk. Unless we can count the class bonus that is : )
This won't be relevant for a while - but I thought I'd bring up such minor queries as I come across them.
Remove 3 from prerequisites, minimum 2.
If it's 'per 5 ranks' then just keep it at ranks. It does penalize people a tiny bit, but it makes the math easier to keep track of.
Roger =)
Ok Annara is done GM.
@Fernán + GM
I think you are spending to much Skill points as the GM Said
Skills : Use Alien Device is not available at start. Technical Skills require an appropriate background (you can't bulid energy weapons if you're a barbarian). K/Interstellar Law is only available with University Training.
House Rules : We will use Pathfinder Skill structures. That means you get the same amount of skill points per level, from 1st to 20th. However, class skills get a +3 trained bonus if you put a point into the skill. Additionally, instead of feats being granted every 3rd level, they are granted every other level.
Spot and Listen are merged into the skill Perception (if the class has either, you get it as a class skill).
Tumble, Balance, and Jump are merged into the skill 'Acrobatics'.
Gather Information, Liason, Trader and Broker are combined into Diplomacy.
Move Silent & Hide become Stealth. Read/Write, Speak Language, and Forgery are merged into Linguistics.
I think Bribery may be good going into Bluff GM.
So
+8 Bluff (3 ranks +3 class +2 Cha) (+1 to fool someone)
+9 Bribery (2 ranks +3 class +4 Int)
Would become one Skill, Saving you 2 skill point, that you
using 1 on [As you had no Ranks so no +3class]
+8 Knowledge (Homeplanet) (+1 rank +3 class +4Int)
with 1 rank left to spend as you see fit :)
Hmm. I'm considering the Heart of the Fields (Heart of the Stars? Tireless worker?) and apply it to T\Engineering too.
It only applies to Craft/Profession skill ordinary, but ... would Technical fall under that umbrella too ?
Reference:
Heart of the Fields
Humans born in rural areas are used to hard labor. They gain a racial bonus equal to half their character level to any one Craft or Profession skill, and once per day they may ignore an effect that would cause them to become fatigued or exhausted. This racial trait replaces skilled.
Suggested:
Hard Working?
Humans born in industrial areas are used to hard labor. They gain a racial bonus equal to half their character level to any one Craft, Profession or Technical skill, and once per day they may ignore an effect that would cause them to become fatigued or exhausted. This racial trait replaces skilled.
Note that Know (X) keys of Edu, not Int. Annoying, I know :P
In a sci-fi setting, bribery is probably ok as it's own skill.
Heart of the fields can work on Technical skills as well.
Like so - I think I'm finished with Ceres. Might add some more background as fancy strikes : )
I also switched her name. Telluris (alt Tellus) seemed like a fun quirk, but it turns out I couldn't stand it. I've switched down the references to something less meta instead ^^
using 1 on [As you had no Ranks so no +3class]+8 Knowledge (Homeplanet) (+1 rank +3 class +4Int)
with 1 rank left to spend as you see fit :)
Do those additional class skills (Driving*, Ride, Handle Animal) get the +3 class bonus without a rank like the Knowledge skill?
cheers
Yes. That's the reason for specifying they are treated as 0 rank trained.
I believe you get the +3 even with 0 ranks. However, true about the Knowledge keying off the EDU. I will change that.
I think the GM said
"class skills get a +3 trained bonus if you put a point into the skill"
Is that not true GM?
There are certain skills that, during character creation, or as background, you gain with 0 ranks. If you gain a skill with 0 ranks, it's trained. ANd you get the +3 if it's a class skill. However, that only applies for skills explicitly granted with 0 ranks. One such is K/Homeplanet.
Cool GM
So that would imply Driving, Ride and Handle Animal are not "0-rank" skills, they are just free class skills (along with the free feat for driving). That makes sense.
Yep, just free class skills and a free feat.
MDT
I've a little problem. I've finally got Vathan about where I want him when I discovered something bad. The BAB progression of Merchant in SciFi20 is +2 BAB at 10th level versus +7 BAB on Downport, which I based my selection.
Then I read the multi-class rules of SciFi20 and found how limited my build is to go into a higher BAB class. This is not a problem if we never gain more than a level or two in this campaign. However, if we're successful and gain several levels, I'm going to be unhappy, because it's not the PC that I want to play.
Thoughts? I can rebuild him. We have the technology. And time for your Saturday start day.
cheers
Super weird. In the T20 light pdf it also has the merchant with the terrible bad. That's why they have 7 skills I guess?
I don't think the +2 is that big a deal honestly. Remember, there's not all the spells and magical equipment that usually pushes AC so high in this game. Just to give a breakdown :
Level 10
Academic : +2
Army : +7
Barbarian : +10
Belter : +5
Marine : +10
Mercenary : +10
Merchant : +2
Navy : +5
Noble : +5
Professional : +2
Rogue : +7
Scout : +7
Traveller : +5
Level 20
Academic : +5
Army : +15
Barbarian : +20
Belter : +10
Marine : +20
Mercenary : +20
Merchant : +5
Navy : +10
Noble : +10
Professional : +5
Rogue : +15
Scout : +15
Traveller : +10
There's no real penalty for multiclassing, the system actually encourages you to multiclass. So if you want to bump up your combat capabilities, you'd take some training in a martial field (Mercenary works really well). Unlike a lot of D20 systems, thing saren't based off your class level usually, it's based off either your overall level, or off a stat bonus. So once you can do something, you're golden. Honestly, I really don't think it's that big a deal. Unless you end up getting attacked by a full on mercenary group, you're going to be within spitting distance on the BAB. And if you feel you're falling behind, taking levels in rogue or mercenary can boost your bab and combat breadth with regards to armor proficiency and weapons proficiency.
As a note, with regards to multiclassing restrictions, those will be waived for some classes depending on the game. For example, if everyone signs up for the Navy, they would all be able to multiclass into Navy. For Mercenary, they'd have to have skills for it, or someone with mercenary levels would need to take them under their wing (another PC for example). Alternately, a lot of people will, for the right money, train you into something. No job is 'locked out' except Barbarian (you can't train someone to be primitive) and Noble (you can't be trained to be noble, unless your social standing rises enough to be noble). Also note, that once you start doing things in game, a lot of the previously restricted classes will open up (like Traveller for example).
Both Mercs and Marines achieve +20 BaB at 20, don't they ?
Since there are very little in the game as 'class features' that advance, classes can only give BaB, Stamina, Skills and Saves.
And since BaB is tied to Stamina - and all classes seems about equal on saves (1 good, 2 bad. Some have 2 that ends up at +9 instead of +12), the only thing left to difference the classes is skills and Bab.
All the full BaB classes have 2 skill points per level. The classes with 7+ skillpoints thus have craptastic BaB progression.
Yes they do. :) That's what I typed. You keep doing that, misreading my original posts. :)
But yes, the only advantages on each class are BAB/Skills/Stamina... and feats. Remember, some of the feats are class specific. For example, Mercenary has the 'Cross Training' feat which allows them to take an Army, Navy, or Marine specific feat. Navy can get Command Presence. It's really the class specific feats that are the big deal with classes. Once you have the class specific feats you want, switching to another class is to gain more feats. Remember, we'll be using PF feat advancement (every odd level).
Huh. Navy has Cross-Training too - but with a different effect :P
Might also be that Merchants have one of the best Muster Out tables. Lots of Cash and very nice perks : )
Yes, my issue was the multi-class restriction. As built per the SciFi20 RAW, my Barb1/Merch2 can not multi-class into anything and only advance as Merchant. All service classes and merc are closed; Noble and Rogue need Social status or Underworld connections, respectively; etc.
While in general, the BAB disparity between a +5 and +15 at 20th level might not be bad or handicapping, Vathan's build focused on combat with lots of low ranked skills. It works at low levels but runs out of gas after 2-3 levels.
If it's all the same to you, I'll tinker with other builds for the same flavor character.
cheers
I'm fine with people tinkering. :) We're not starting yet. :) Tinker 'till you enjoy the character.
On a different note, if anyone wants PSI powers, or thinks they might eventually, you might want to consider taking the PSI Training feat at 1st level. Doing so negates aging penalties to your eventual PSI training. Note that at game start, only Noble families actively check for PSI, and the training is highly restricted, for obvious reasons. There's no real law against psionics. Most psions are policed either by other psions, nobles, or people with shotguns. Psionics is in the original T20 book, but not the SF20 book, so anyone interested in it can PM me, and I'll work up your stuff for you if you don't have access when the time comes. Note that psionics can be somewhat feat/skill point intensive, and also a bit of a gamble. On the other hand, if your psionics turns out bad, you can retrain the feat (basically giving up on the small potential you had).
I was considering PSIonics, but in the end I couldn't really justify it for Ceres character nor feat/skill expenditure. Maybe if we get the chance to test, she wouldn't mind - but then the dice may fall how the fall.
Unless I change my mind before saturday, that is ^^
Order sent V PM GM
DC 15
DC 4
DC 7
DC 7
DC 9
Now that the independence day festivities are over, I can start working on this. I am thinking of making 3 levels of academic.
Like everyone else, I picked set 1:
Str 12
Dex 12
Con 12
Wis 11
Int 16
Cha 10
Edu 16(-2+2)
Soc 15
MDT, can you please help with enough academic tours to get a Doctorate?
Cosmos :
Cosmos, your character did 2 tours as an Academic, but finally graduated with his Doctorate. It took him 15 years, and he maxed out EXP at 7,000 XP. His EDU went up to 18. He's currently 18+15 = 33 years old with his shiny new doctorate. I assume he'll want to muster out at this point. He get's two rolls on Academic. Due to his Secret Project, he's got a security clearance (Secret Level). Do you want 1 roll on each Cash and Material, or 2 cash or 2 material?
Age 18
denied
Army term 1
Garrison
Survival auto
Commission none
Promoted to E2 Corporal
Decoration none
XP Bonus none
10,000 Cr (half result, because one term in service)
Age 22
Professional term 1
Government Service
mishap
no further action
yes
3,000 XP
no
no
10,000 Cr
Age 26
Did I do this right?
You got 20,000 in the army. I don't see any rules about half for 1 term.
Due to the mishap, you don't get XP at all. You do, however, have to roll on the mishap table. Roll 1d6 to see what happened from the mishap.
That means you'll likely need to do another term to reach the 7K EXP threshold, but we need to see what you roll on the mishap.
p124 - "The first two years of any Service Term is basic training, yadayada -2 on commission, half cash bonus and no exp bonus. Do get +1000 exp. Does not apply to OTC"
But that does not apply to the Mustering Out bonus, so Vathan should get full payment from his first term ; )
Ah, I missed that. Oh well, not worried about it. And yes, doesn't apply to mustering out bonus. For the exp, you're all maxing out anyway at 7K, so that is moot.
-- Only Noble families actively check for PSI, and the training is highly restricted, for obvious reasons. There's no real law against psionics --
Just so you guys know Lady Annara is a PSI Trained, she has find to be gifted as a child. Its why she is in he Diplomatic core. Buts she wants to leave and set up her own business with in the Family Corp.
This all links to her innate skills ability.
Also
GM, what do you think about PCs have
2:Contacts and 1: Rival
One of the contacts being another players PC
Due to the mishap, you don't get XP at all. You do, however, have to roll on the mishap table. Roll 1d6 to see what happened from the mishap. That means you'll likely need to do another term to reach the 7K EXP threshold, but we need to see what you roll on the mishap.
I rolled already. The result is under the mishap.
For the exp, you're all maxing out anyway at 7K, so that is moot.
Does this mean that Vathan needs another term in Professional or not?
cheers
Thanks MDT. I would like to roll once on each table please.
I love that security clearance came up. If there is a good plot hook to use with the security please let me know.
@Cosmos : I'm sure it will come up in game.
@Vathan : Yeah, you'll need at least one more due to the mishap.
@Annara : I'm fine with everyone listing one contact per point of social mod they have. With an extra contact for every enemy they take.
Service to Noble House, interesting
barely no mishap
yes
3,000 XP
yes to O1
yes to O2
+75,000 Cr
+30,000 Cr
Total mustering out cash= 20k + 10k +75k +30k = 125k Cr
Age 30
MDT, did I get this right?
Oh, Lady Annara. We could have a connection. Vathan's Profession is Hunting.
cheers
Yep, looks correct.
@Jubal
That sounds really cool, you could be working with her for the Family at start of play.
Vathan Professional Hunter.
You can also have her as a contact.
OK Vathan 2.0 is about done again. Same end, different means. However, this time I clearly see how he can gain new levels.
He served a noble house for the last four years as an Assistant Gameskeeper. That could be Annara's family or another PC.
He still has over 100k Cr to spend. On what, I do not know. Probably a retirement account.
His reason to be on the Station is a bit thin, so please read his Background and offer any suggestions.
cheers
He could also be Annara's bodyguard, with the army stint, rather than games keeper. As to spending the money, nothing wrong with having it in the bank for future.
Cyberware/Bioware : If this ever comes up in game, the rules in the book for cyberware are woefully underdeveloped, and the biological mods are pretty much the same. And, most of them didn't make it into the SF20 books.
So here's how I intend to handle it.
Wis Mod + Con Mod = Evolution Points
Cyberware or Bioware will be Eidelon evolutions (with me being the final arbiter on what can be gotten).
TL 10 : 1 pt Evolutions (with restrictions on a case by case basis)
TL 11 : 2 pt Evolutions (with restrictions on a case by case basis)
TL 12 : 3 pt Evolutions (with restrictions on a case by case basis)
TL 13 : 4 pt Evolutions (with restrictions on a case by case basis)
For example, let's say you found a hidden TL 10 medical center hiding out on an asteroid for the last 450 years (yes I know, assume it had android doctors or something), and you want implants to give you low light vision.
Cyberware : Obvious but can be programmed to transmit to a datapad on your body for later review. Picked up on scanners 100% of time.
Bioware : Non-obvious, even to scanners, without DNA testing.
So let's say you have a Wisdom of 10, and a Con of 10. Your body and mind just can't handle the modifications, autofailure of implant.
Let's say you have a Wisdom of 14, and a Con of 8. Your body is weak, but through sheer will you can handle 1 pt of modification. So those new low-light eyes are yours.
Let's say you have a Con of 16 and a Wisdom of 16. Your body is healthy and hale, and you have a strong mind, so you can handle 6 pts worth of modifications.
Note, these would be very costly modifications. Ranging from 20,000 to 2,000,000 credits. One point mods cost 20,000 to 40,000 depending on complexity (adding extra pair of limbs is more complicated than adding claws to your hands or changing out your eyeballs). Giving you fast healing is incredibly complex and invasive (4 pts) and would cost 2,000,000 credits. Prices may be adjusted down the road.
MDT, when you have some spare time, can you collect all of your extra rules, rulings and answers to game mechanic questions in the campaign info tab? For example, your last cyber tech post and that one post specifying which classes can buy what tech level. Took me awhile to find it.
cheers
Also Lady Annara 2.0 is now in place,
I have moved her a lot more into the Psionic side.
That means she needs others to do things for her, like keeping her Safe, so the Vathan's idea of Annara's bodyguard is a good one. She needs someone like that.
With her PSI powers she's a real asset to the family and so they would pay for some one like your PC to keep her safe.
Also she's up there doing Family stuff so in this way you PC if he did do this, then he would be there with her.
ok Bodyguard it is. I'll ditch my personal ride and some toolkits. I'll just have luggage.
I'll update Vathan 2.5 later.
cheers