The Alarm Spell

Hey,

Not sure if I have missed something or misinterpreted something, but wanting to get an answer on this for tonight.

This is my take on the Alarm Spell, can someone clarify as to whether i'm correct or not.

The Alarm spell is a Ward as opposed to a trap. Which means that it can't be found by searching for traps (or a Rogue with Trap Detection Talent)? Additionally it can't be dispelled by Disable Device since there is no actual device to disable?

Thanks

If an alarm has no way for the player characters to detect it or disarm it... it doesn't need rules. It would just happen. The fact that there are rules defining its spell level and all that implies to me that you COULD detect and disarm it with a Perception check and a Disable Device check (DC 26 for both). A tough roll, perhaps even an impossible roll for most 1st level characters to make, but I'd give them a go at it.

Assuming, of course, the players actually make clear their intent to look for traps or alarm spells or whatever. If they just walk on into the alarm-warded room without stopping to look... they get what they deserve! :-)

If an alarm has no way for the player characters to detect it or disarm it... it doesn't need rules. It would just happen. The fact that there are rules defining its spell level and all that implies to me that you COULD detect and disarm it with a Perception check and a Disable Device check (DC 26 for both). A tough roll, perhaps even an impossible roll for most 1st level characters to make, but I'd give them a go at it.

Assuming, of course, the players actually make clear their intent to look for traps or alarm spells or whatever. If they just walk on into the alarm-warded room without stopping to look... they get what they deserve! :-)

What does the caster know, if anything, when his alarm spell is disabled or dispelled by another person?

If the caster was aware of his alarm spell being dispelled/disabled, there would be no point in doing so. It would have the same effect as triggering the alarm, which technically wasn't done. Thus, they shouldn't sense anything.

But what are they disabling? I agree it could be detected and identified with detect magic. And could be dispelled with dispel magic.

But a common rogue has no way to disable it with a disable device check or perceive it with non magical means.

The spell is cast and anchored to a point in empty space and wards the area in a 20ft radius. Even if there was a way to disable it with a skill check, you could not get to the point in space without setting it off.

EDIT: Just realized this is a 6 year old thread... minus the guy above me who necroed it...

The fact that there are rules defining its spell level and all that implies to me...

It having a spell level is sufficiently explained simply by the player needing to know levels to know when they can prepare a spell, what slot it goes in, how much scrolls of it cost, what it's DC is for dispelling, etc.

I'm not sure how/why having a spell level implies anything about mundane trap detection or disable device. By that logic, couldn't a rogue simply use disable device to destroy an entire demiplane or a prismatic sphere, unpolymorph a dragon, etc., purely because "those spells have levels and all that"?

If the caster was aware of his alarm spell being dispelled/disabled, there would be no point in doing so. It would have the same effect as triggering the alarm, which technically wasn't done. Thus, they shouldn't sense anything.

It would not have the same effect, and the question in the OP matters, because alarms can be silent/in your head. So noticing one would tip the intruders off that the area is protected, while not noticing one might not tip them off if it is set to silent mode. Either way the caster is notified, but this can easily affect the intruders' subsequent decisions and matter for gameplay.

Another way it can matter is that the caster could be denied information about how many people are in the intruding party. A rogue enters and makes one PING, disables the spell, and then no more pings. Caster now doesn't know whether one person is invading or a whole army, wheareas if they weren't allowed to disable device, then a mundane invasion force would make many PINGS, telling him the number of invaders.

Note: Magic traps such as glyph of warding are hard to detect and disable. While any character can use Perception to find a glyph, only a character with the trapfinding class feature can use Disable Device to disarm it.

Magic Trap: The DC for both Perception and Disable Device checks is equal to 25 + the spell level of the highest-level spell used. Only characters with the trapfinding class feature can attempt a Disable Device check involving a magic trap.

Trapfinding: A rogue adds 1/2 her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.

The real question isn't whether a rogue can detect magic traps (anyone can) or disable magic traps (because however they do it, they can do it). The real question is whether 'Alarm' is a magic trap at all.

On the one hand, it acts very much like a magic trap in that you trigger it and something bad happens.

The only possible realistic argument that it isn't a trap is that it doesn't contain the reminder text found in spells such as glyph of warding or the ever popular explosive runes

It's unambiguously not a trap. Trap is a term defined in RAW:

All traps—mechanical or magical—have the following elements: CR, type, Perception DC, Disable Device DC, trigger, reset, and effect.

Not as "things you trigger and something bad happens" (if so, a readied action could be a "trap" that a rogue can "disarm", as could be a simple mundane ambush by bandits... can rogues disarm roadside bandit attacks using disable device?)

Since Alarm is missing several of those pieces of information defining a trap, nor does it say it's a trap outright, it's not a trap.

If a spell could be disarmed, it specifically says so. For example, fire trap and glyph of warding. Alarm lacks any such notation.

Even so, if alarm had a noticeable glyph that is floating in space or on an object that the rogue could detect and disarm, it still has to get to the glyph to disable it. the rogue would have set off the alarm spell just trying to get to the glyph to attempt to disable it.

Even so, if alarm had a noticeable glyph that is floating in space or on an object that the rogue could detect and disarm, it still has to get to the glyph to disable it. the rogue would have set off the alarm spell just trying to get to the glyph to attempt to disable it.

Yes, so? You still may want to do it to stop the alarm from dinging for each of your friends who follows behind thus depriving the caster of additional tactical information.

It is definitely a relevant ruling to gameplay. Alarm is not binary yes/no people are here or not. It gives a specific numerical count per entrance.

Also ranged legerdemain for the arcane trickster WOULD allow disabling without tripping the alarm even once, if it were a trap (but it's not).