I think the lizards have to move before your turn, Shihoraj, so you can't take that 5' step yet. Once you do, it should allow for a Glitterdust. Quaffing a potion provokes an AoO.
Also - I'm not doing that glitterdust. I'm not playing russian roulette in the middle of a fight when I see another (currently) better course of action. Displacement is miss chance, not total concealment(thus may not work for stealth).
Marnarius you probably need to watch your step - the square south, and south west of your current location is likely to become really shiny.
North of Joliyrn, east of Shihoraj should be safe to stand in.
|
Marnarius you probably need to watch your step - the square south, and south west of your current location is likely to become really shiny.North of Joliyrn, east of Shihoraj should be safe to stand in.
I stand warned, though I have no idea why you would do that unless you want to trip up the chameleons, and you could do that by moving the grease south 5 feet. If it is even a grease spell you are talking about.
In any case, if I go east I think I would lose my sneak attack, as I would have to do a 25' move before the attack and I think you lose stealth if you move over half your speed. Not sure if that means over 30' in a whole turn (half of 60), or 15 in one move action (half of 30). Like I said, slayers/sneak attacks are new for me.
On the topic of Sneak Attack, there are several ways to carry it off. The easiest way is to flank a creature.
In this case it is assumed that the creatures are unaware of you -- that you currently have stealth against them rather than them just ignoring you because they have active food closer. You want to move up to them and strike before they are aware.
If you move half speed (15'), you can stealth at no penalty.
If you move more than half but less than full (between 20' and 25' in this case), you can stealth at a -5 penalty.
If you have the fast stealth rogue talent, you can move your full speed (30') at no penalty.
If you move more than 30', you can't make an attack.
Stealth is always opposed by a perception check. You make your move, roll your stealth check, the GM secretly rolls perception, and if you are successful you get to make the attack with sneak attack damage for one attack. If you fail, these creatures will take an attack of opportunity on you.
I believe the way Jack wants it done is as one post you make the stealth check, attack roll, damage roll, and sneak attack damage roll -- keeping the sneak attack damage separate so Jack can apply it or not depending on the results. Jack would make the perception roll and any attacks of opportunity for the creatures.
The full rules for stealth are in the CRB. Most of them are in the skill description, but you also have to look at concealment, cover, rogue talents, and a few other things for the more esoteric points such as feinting and using spells to gain concealment.
I hope I've answered your question.
This is my understanding of the rules, any corrections are welcome.
|
|
It´s my first time playing a rogue son when in doubt:
Couple of notes I want to add here...
1. For simplicities sake, it should be assumed that those making Perception checks get to do so at the most favorable point during the movement of a character using Stealth, to avoid making checks every time the condition changes. Technically, I think you would get a check whenever the conditions change, but that might make things overly complicated during play.
2. Creatures are denied their Dexterity bonus to AC "if they cannot react to a blow" (CR pg 179 under AC). It was our intent that if you are unaware of a threat, you cannot react to a blow. I think we probably should have spelled this out a wee bit clearer, but space in the Stealth description was extraordinarily tight and ever word was at a premium. That said, I think these changes clear up the situation immensely (compared to where they were.. which was nebulous at best).
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Lab_Rat wrote:
Furious Kender wrote:
Hobbun wrote:
Yes, I understand what you are saying. Are already pointed out the flaw logic my GM and I were talking about. As I said, I will bring it up to him.
It says "end of turn" not "end of action." So stepping out from shadows itself won't break the stealth until the end of the characters turn or until after the character attacks, etc.
There is a requirement to remaining stealthed while not having cover/concealment and that is that you must move to another area with cover/concealment and make a stealth check. If you don't move to an area of cover/concealment then your movement does not stay stealthed.
This new wording doesn't allow players to start from stealth and walk out into an open field and stab someone in the back. It just allows you to move around without breaking stealth as long as you start and end with cover/concealment. You no longer need the distraction mechanism to stealth between areas.
Not really correct here. The wording was intentionally put together to specify "at the end of your turn". That is the moment when you check your status to see if you can maintain Stealth. This does allow you to move from cover, use Stealth to approach a target, and make a single attack, at which point, Stealth is broken, regardless of the outcome. Now, if you slay that target with one hit, and still could maintain Stealth from all other foes in the area (if say, it is dark and they cannot see you), a GM might reasonably interpret that you could maintain Stealth from other foes, but that requires GM interpretation and is not really the point of this particular situation.Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Stealth does break at the end of the turn if you don't regain cover/concealment... that was the change we put into the book.
And the link
Errate Paizo Inc..|
|
I stand warned...
Marnarius you probably need to watch your step - the square south, and south west of your current location is likely to become really shiny.North of Joliyrn, east of Shihoraj should be safe to stand in.
As a note, you will need to communicate this in character in the gameplay section. At this point, though I know your intention ooc, my character has no idea you are going to hose down the area. And since he is under stealth I don't know that you would warn Marnarius in particular.
GM: I already pre-posted my next orders. If a warning does go out, what are your guidelines considering I already posted my action to enter the area AND my rolls. I may need to stop doing that so far in advance, though at the time it seemed a no-brainer..
Also, if you don't want to go toe-to-toe normally, check your gear. But, BretI has it correct above.
I agree with Marnarius -- you need to tell him in character.
|
|
Also, if you don't want to go toe-to-toe normally, check your gear. But, BretI has it correct above.
I thought about that. I could and am considering having him use his bow if that is what you were thinking. Not sure that is a good idea or not:
Pros: Marnarius could get off a double shot immediately if he dropped his sword and used a swift action to ready the bow. If the DR works as I suspect only the first hit would be DRed. The thing is that I'm assuming that Marnarius does not know that IC.
Cons: It does less damage and we have a serious DR issue here. He would have to hit twice for this to work. Again something I only know OOC. But the crucial thing to him is that he could very soon be dragged into the area anyway, whether he likes it or not, and if he is he'd rather have his sword out.
Another potential thing I could have him do is use the poison. The problem with that is that Marnarius can't tell them from giant chickens with that knowledge roll he made. They could be constructs for all he knows and he is not going to waste poison on constructs.
I don't suppose you could resolve some of those knowledge rolls and help us out with finding out their offense and defenses? And, hopefully, if someone does figure it out, then that person will have strong lungs and shout it out. If that were to happen it would change things a lot and the goal would be to land as many hits on a single target in one round. He'd probable use his bow and try to coordinate with Z. Bit for know, considering only what he knows, the sword without poison is his goto weapon. I'm a stickler for staying IC at times like this.
Unless there is something I missed here and that Marnarius is aware of that I'm not considering?
Actually, I was keeping with the talk about sneak attack for Shihoraj... and hinting she might have an item that would help with that.
I will not disagree that this is a tough fight.
And, i am embarrassed to realize, you are all waiting on me with the lizards.
Suggestions:
1) Marnarius, w/ Power Attack and Studied Target, I believe you do 1d8+10 with your longsword, right? And you get two attacks, which is pretty rare in this group. Sneak attack would a bonus (you think you're still hidden, so may get one sneak attack in if you are careful).
2) Joliryn is a heavy hitter in this group, with her spell combat and/or spellstrike.
3) Zurnzal, I'd be going for something that allows you to overcome the DR/Hardness/what have you. Power Attack is one way, but there are others.
4) Shihoraj can use her mobility to get into a flank...
Too bad Shihoraj used her move. If she hadn't, she could have flanked with 322 on that lizard and attacked.
Is Mr Z on the init list? I'm waiting for his action before I commence mine.
Suggestions:
3) Zurnzal, I'd be going for something that allows you to overcome the DR/Hardness/what have you. Power Attack is one way, but there are others.
Not without a two-handed weapon it's not, especially since the hardness is stone (8). Poison though would have been nice. ;) All I can maybe do on my own is keep them busy for about two rounds while everyone else concentrates fire on the two to the south.
Is Mr Z on the init list? I'm waiting for his action before I commence mine.
And I was waiting on the lizards, though not all that excitedly.
Not without a two-handed weapon it's not, especially since the hardness is stone (8). Poison though would have been nice. ;) All I can maybe do on my own is keep them busy for about two rounds while everyone else concentrates fire on the two to the south.Suggestions:
3) Zurnzal, I'd be going for something that allows you to overcome the DR/Hardness/what have you. Power Attack is one way, but there are others.
Or not, now that one's moved away.
|
|
Or not, now that one's moved away.Not without a two-handed weapon it's not, especially since the hardness is stone (8). Poison though would have been nice. ;) All I can maybe do on my own is keep them busy for about two rounds while everyone else concentrates fire on the two to the south.Suggestions:
3) Zurnzal, I'd be going for something that allows you to overcome the DR/Hardness/what have you. Power Attack is one way, but there are others.
Perhaps he's talking about your knockout ability? Though I expect you want to save that for Zey.
He has access to just about every feat in the book.
But I would argue that 1d6+9 would wear them down.
Also, if you haven't already, make you knowledge planes check, everybody.
Mine was 15, rataji was 22.
Z took the spot that I thought Shihoraj could have taken.
You've still got a standard action left. Since you spent an action taking out the potion, might as well quaff it.
Crudely drawn but yeah I drew the 20 ft radius spread in green! Also moved my token. I figure I should be able to see stuff while flying?
He has access to just about every feat in the book.
But I would argue that 1d6+9 would wear them down.
Yes but with the average damage of my blows being 12ish (4.5-ish after hardness) and their average attacks against me being 13ish period means that it will take me 10 hits+ to finish one of them to the five-ish hits I know it will take to kill one me. Had I a falchion (2-handed with a much better critical range) I would be more inclined to stand and fight with them.
Z, even with the 20 strength score, is really a tactical finesse fighter, and nothing lacks more finesse than a homicidal brick wall that you have to pound to dust in order to stop. Don't let his good looks fool you. ;)
He might have to pull out some of the more specialized attacks but the problem is they are large so there's a good chance they might save.
Can he get Vital Strike?
Note I haven't looked at your character sheet, so I'm not sure exactly what you have access to. Easier to play my character if I don't have to separate character from player knowledge.
Can he get Vital Strike?
Z can at need. And it is under consideration as well depending on the situation.
Now... here's hoping that they're not immune to electricity. If only I hadn't flubbed the Planes roll.
It seems Rataji did not flub the roll after all. Is there anything he is going to tell us about the creatures?
@GM Sorry, another couple of rules questions about my Magus abilities.
1. Using the Arcane Pool to add enhancements. I already have a Flaming kukri. Can I make it Flaming Burst for a +1 equivalent bonus, or would it use a full +2 bonus to do that?
2. Since it appears these creatures have hardness, would that count twice against my attacks that add energy damage? Say I do a Frigid Touch Spellstrike with my kukri, does the hardness apply to both the spell and weapon damage? I'm assuming that by 7th level my character would have fought against constructs at least once and therefore have reason to know this.
@Joli:
1) No, while it might make sense that it can, I believe that since they are differently named abilities. They cannot be upgraded.
2) Yes, the hardness counts separately against the physical and energy damage.
It might make more sense to make your kukri keen -- increasing your crit range so that you crit on your carrier spell more often.
Saw this after my post.
Given the ruling, she went for +1 Keen and +1 to weapon (making it a +2) given the above.
Hating the hardness. This means the weapon is incapable of doing damage unless I'm not using Spell Combat -- only my spells will.
Re: Spellstrike -- it allows you to deliver your touch spells with your weapon. This does not, in and of itself, give you two attacks. You can combine it with Spell Combat, which effectively gives you two-weapon fighting, but you take a -2 on your attack roll.
At least as I understand it.
Note: you still need to cast on the defensive either way. :D
You get your one normal attack (from spell combat) and the one touch attack that a touch spell would normally give on the round you cast it.
Without spell strike, it would only be a touch attack with the spell (no weapon damage).
With Spell strike, you get your weapon damage as well. This is why every Magus should have Arcane Mark.
Edit to add: An explanation of how it works.
Right. Got it... we are saying the exact same thing!
|
|
Who's round is it after you process all the queued actions? I think it is Marnarius' turn after Raji takes his turn as Z, Shi, and 322 all posted actions after the lizards attack, correct?
So, is it possible to enter stealth from where Marnarius is, with or without taking a 5` step, and then unleash two attacks with a full turn sneak attack on either pink or red? I'm hoping that by 5' stepping from side to side of the shelves to the other he can keep up a steady barrage of sneaky arrows at the two until one finally falls.
I think we are doing grouped initiative. This is normal practice for PbP, if you wait to do everyone in exact order the game can grind to a halt.
Instead you group all the PCs who have their turns between monsters together. Each does their turn as they can. This time Joli is on her own (there are monster initiatives on either side of her) and the rest of the group acts in the order they post.
Does that make sense, M?
Sort of, but not quite. Still, we are going in the posting order regardless of rolls (as if people had delayed, essentially)
|
|
I think you missed my question...
Is it possible to enter stealth from where Marnarius is, with or without taking a 5` step, and then unleash two attacks with a full turn sneak attack on either pink or red? I'm hoping that by 5' stepping from side to side of the shelves to the other he can keep up a steady barrage of sneaky arrows at the two until one finally falls.
You will not be able to full attack from stealth. Why? Because attacking breaks stealth. It takes at least a move action to re-establish stealth.
Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
i.e., if you take a move action to move, you can use stealth. You need to break line of sight (through concealment or cover) to be able to even roll for stealth.
Personally? I would just fire away at the target for 1d8+7, and fire twice per round. They haven't been that hard to hit. Or, switch back to your sword for 1d8+8.
You could stay where you are, and use snap-shot, but that is at a -20, and requires a move action.
So strategy. Were Z able to make it to larger portion of the group he would impress upon them the fact that they are fighting to the foo-creatures' advantage and that they need to draw them out onto the open floor were they can be flanked. Were he by the one on the wall he would try his best to trip it have it fall in the space between him and everyone else and then while it is flanked, prone, and possibly squeezed--bum rush it.
Z would also impress upon them that he and 322 cannot keep the frilled foos at bay all day. So if you could, ya know, hurry up, that would be great.
Speaking of flanking, Shihoraj that's what most rogues do in a fight--use the distraction of a flaking helper to slip past the enemy's defenses and strike a vital spot for more damage than is normally possible via sneak attacks. In fact unless we have a wand of lightning you are liable to be our best consistent damage dealer in this fight assuming you don't roll three 1s and a 3 again, and can find an undefended flank.
If you are not flanking you should be attempting to (using acrobatics if necessary to spring past areas that your foes threaten to get into position quicker). Since we've been told the guardians are slightly more vulnerable to bludgeoning damage you might wish to bring your skill with the sap into play. You also know a few debilitating attacks that depending on the situation you may also want to use.
I'm not going to argue too loudly against being my flanking buddy, but for right this second, Z's okay (thanks to 322). Z would rather we end the fight on the south side of the room first since everyone is there already and those lizards have reach attacks that we would not want to suffer at our backs. They are also more wounded than either of the frilled foos, thanks to the lightning earlier and should be easier to defeat. Much of this is supposition, but I think it would make sense to a pragmatist like Shihoraj, but I am not playing her and I only mention any of this because you asked.
|
|
You will not be able to full attack from stealth without sniping. Why? Because attacking breaks stealth. It takes at least a move action to re-establish stealth.Thanks. I'll wait to see what Raji does before I take my action though. I want Marny to 5' step left but Raji may 5' step back and take my preferred position.
Rataji is grappled. I don't think he's going to be able to get many wheres.
GM: How close to dead are Red and Blue? I know how much damage they have taken, I want to know if either of them are close to dead.
Edit to add: Can a staggered creature get an AoO? I've seen GMs play it both ways.
Bret, that'd be a heal check.
Staggered creatures can get AoO's. So can disabled creatures... though that would be a violent action, and cause them to start bleeding out.
Well I attempted the check. I can't say that I'm surprised by the results.
Thanks for the answers!
He needs to learn what happens when one doesn't observe the social niceties. No tonguing Rataji without a liberal application of witty repartee and alcohol.