Mantisbane Pact with GM Zek

Game Master Zektolna

Yes, it came unannounced this year. Quite rude, if you ask me. Alas, what can we do about it but try to endure for another year?

I'll hold off on updating us for another day to give Uruelleth and Vorya more time to chime in.

To your question, Kilarra, that is a possibility, but speaking as a GM, I would very much prefer to avoid that if possible. Becoming inconsistent as far as posting rates and times can lead to even longer delays, then expectations as far as posting rates can start to be unclear. That said, I'm certainly open to ideas, and if that's what most people prefer, then we can discuss it further. As I mentioned in my last post, though, I suspect some of the posting issues just have to do with the time of the year, so we can revisit the conversation after New Year's if necessary.

Southern Hemisphere, so we don't get snow at xmas time, just really hot weather :(

I'm with family on the 22nd but should have (mostly) full access until 26th-2nd when I'll be on a roadtrip with the family which might mean my internet is a little sketchy but I'll probs have phone access. Back at work 3rd and back to full internet afterwards - just of that helps.

Having cold weather in June/July, etc. sounds weird to me, but I guess the reverse is also true for y'all.

The dates definitely help, Talia, thank you. I'll try to give a bit of a heads up of when I'm going to post (like in my last post), but I'll probably just mostly be playing it by ear.

I guess I'll hold off on updating us one more day since we still haven't heard from Uruelleth or Vorya.

Post coming!

GM did Talivar find anything on the Kobold bodies?

Oh, sorry, Talivar. Nothing significant. Masterwork longbows, a masterwork shortbow, chain mail for each of them. Two pairs of masterwork daggers. Nothing to indicate where Jekkajak might be, and no writing to speak of.

Today will be the last post I make for a few days, as I'm spending the holidays with my family. I will resume regular posting on the 27th (although I might be able to squeak in a post on the 24th).

All the best, and Happy Holidays!

Happy Xmass Kilarra!

Thanks, you too!

I'll be out of town until...whew...the 26th, looks like! Happy Holidays!

I'll give Vorya another day... but I'll probably bot him after that, since he said he would be out of town.

Edit: Lest I forget to mention it, thank you for the comprehensive botting guide, Kilarra. : ) Though I suspect I won't need it for now, it'll be nice to have that handy in case a need arises in the future.

It might be good for us all to add bot me spoilers to our profiles.

Kinda hard to do though for Talia since she has an absurd number of options even before you factor in her ability to change her spell list.

Evil Eye, Misfortune, Black Tentacles, Hold Person and Slow were all options I was considering last round.

Like, my next action, is probably hitting Rue with Evil Eye (-2 Saving throw), and then Misfortune the following round, to prevent him killing everyone, before looking at a permanent fix in future going foward.

Even if it's just general guidelines, it would definitely be helpful to me. Obviously I would prefer to not have to bot any of you at all, but that's not realistic. Still, I sometimes agonize over what actions I should take when I do bot y'all, so having player-made guidelines would certainly be nice, even if they're not always going to indicate the exact actions to take.

Having potential rolls typed out like in Kilarra's post above is also super helpful and can save me a lot of time. So things like that I definitely approve of and encourage.

Okay, I have to protest having to make a save against the protection from evil spell. Why would I have to do that? My exact instructions were, "Kill those who came down with you." It didn't include any instructions to "Resist spells that they're casting on you."

Honestly, I should have even been able to voluntarily fail the save vs. hold person.

That’s a fair argument, Uruelleth, and one I might be persuaded by. That said, to push back on it a bit, the spells could prevent you from carrying out the command you were given, which would argue in favor of trying to resist the spells lest you not be able to carry out your command.

Like I said, I’m open to counter arguments, but I think there are valid points on both sides of the issue.

Would it depend on whether I identify the spell? If I know what it's going to do, and help me throw off the spell, would I be allowed to take it?

The spell says that subjects "resist this control" and I can't imagine every really being happy with it, even though I've failed the save twice.

I was actually thinking about the difference knowing the spell would make. I would actually say if you didn’t know the spell, you wouldn’t have a reason to resist it. If you knew the spell, you would try to resist since you would know it might keep you from carrying out your command. So... we won’t worry about the Hold Person spell at this point, but if you want to make a Spellcraft check for the Protection from Evil, that would work. So if you know the spell, you try to resist, if you don’t you let it happen. Does that sound fair?

If I know that it'll help me throw off the dominate, then I need to try to resist the spell? But if I don't know what it is, then I can go ahead and let it affect me?

I have a problem with the phrase, "Subjects resist this control..." I get that I failed the save so I'm physically compelled to follow the orders, but I don't agree that because I failed the save I'm now happy about it. Which it kind of seems like it, because I'm now actively trying to keep the dominate up, rather than resisting.

It doesn't seem right to me.

Would I have also had to start my rage? Since that was something I didn't start up either, thinking that mentally I could keep it at bay since I didn't really want to kill my companions.

Well, I agree that you would try to resist it, which you tried to do, but didn’t succeed. My thought process for the Spellcraft and Protection from Evil is that you know Vorya is an ally, so if you don’t actively know that the spell will help you resist, then you would accept the spell since you presumably trust him. But, if you know what the spell does, you would be compelled to resist. You don’t have to be happy about it, of course, but the compulsion extends to mental control, at least to some degree.

It might be good to have one or two others weigh in on the issue. I could also look up some discussions online, but I’m not at a place I can do that right away.

Edit: As for rage, you would take the actions necessary to most efficiently kill your companions. So if you think rage would be more effective and/or efficient, then yes, I would say you probably rage. Not yet, though, since Talia cast Hold Person before you acted.

But it looks like it worked out anyway, other than the Hold Person! : )

I’m more than willing to continue the discussion, though. As you continue to gain levels, these types of things are sure to come up more often. Better to address them now than later.

O.k, I'll wade in here.

Firstly, whats important to note that in this specific case, the monster made an incorrect action.

Dominate Person is a full round action, preventing it from being cast in a surprise round (where you are only allowed to to Standard + Swift).

"A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description."

I let it go because by the time I realized, actions had already been taken, and it would have gotten messy, but technically it couldn't do everything it did in the surprise round. Which means that we all pile in and kill it (most likely) before it can Dominate since we won init.

Anyway, my 2c on the whole Dominate thing, but take it with a pinch of salt because I like, don't GM at all, and therefore would usually defer to Uruelleth or Vorya's experience.

Firstly, Dominate is not a charm effect. Subjects actively want to resist the domination at all costs. It means that Uruelleth still sees us as allies and friends attempting to help him. How thats interpreted is up to the GM.

Now, as to whether you can resist spells, or how PC's interpret the order, you can look online but its 100% up to GM / Players. The language is weak which makes it tricky. In this particular example, I'd rule that Uruelleth kills to his ability, but how he chooses to do so is up to him.

As to whether you can intentionally fail your saves against hostile magic - thats GM call. Some GM's say this would require a new order "Ie resist all enemy spells" some think that's too harsh on the wording.

As to whether Uruelleth can resist Protection from Evil though, I would rule that as being able to fail his saving throw. (IIRC) You automatically know that the spell is harmless, ergo you can fail your saving throw since its beneficial. I also think in the case of Protection vs Evil its fair (in regard to that particular spell) since the target actively wants to resist the spell.

In the future though, I imagine we would try and find a particular guaranteed fix for Enchantment / Dominate rather than rolling the dice, since this could have got really ugly, and its horrible being TPK'd because one person rolled poorly twice.

Thank you for the input, Talia! It makes me want to kick myself for missing the cast time, but in a way, I'm glad it happened when it did so I can hopefully avoid the same mistake happening twice. Not to mention it facilitated a good discussion about the spell.

Still... I apologize to all of you for the mistake. I know it's frustrating when I'm a player and the GM makes a significant mistake. To be clear, though, I definitely prefer you to point mistakes out rather than let them linger, lest they be likely to happen again. It does make me feel like a failure as a GM sometimes, but I'm glad to have you all to keep me accountable.

As for the Dominate Person spell's effect, after thinking on it some more, I think it's probably best to say (based on the wording Uruelleth and Talia pointed out) that the domination only applies to what Uruelleth physically does. He's still in control of his mental capacities, so he can choose to accept or resist spells and other abilities as he sees fit. The fact that it's not a charm effect like Talia mentioned also lends support to that viewpoint. That's probably the most straightforward interpretation and what I was originally saying was likely more complicated than it needed to be.

Regarding future solutions, you can always specify preparations that you make before opening a door, entering a room, etc. That may not always be possible or practical, though, if it's a long adventuring day and you have limited resources.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours, everyone! Hope y'all have a great day.

Merry Christmas all!

Merry Xmas all.

I'm back in town!

Hey everyone, in my continuing efforts to improve/upgrade how I GM the campaign, I wanted to see how everyone feels about saving throws.

I've seen very successful GMs (namely DM Fang Dragon, among others, I'm sure) roll saving throws for players rather than have them roll for themselves. I didn't initially do this as I wanted players to have as much say regarding their characters' actions and fates as possible. The higher level we get, though, the more I realize that not doing so may be making things harder rather than easier, mostly because I suspect some people don't want to act until they know whether or not another character will succeed or fail at their save. Particularly when it comes to compulsion or domination effects, I could see that being a big issue.

Anyway, I mention the above to see if folks would be open to and/or prefer to have me roll saving throws for them in most cases. There may be some exceptions, but in combat scenarios I would make most saving throw rolls, the idea being that doing so would make it easier for folks to decide how they want to act for the next round. Hopefully people wouldn't have to wait as much to see what others do.

Keep in mind that if we switch, it'll be even more important that your character profile and quick stats are up-to-date. Conditional bonuses and other such things will be especially important to have clearly noted. So... all of that said, do y'all prefer our current method or a method where I roll saves for you?

I'm fine with anything I guess.

That said, I'm happy with how its been run up until now, because I feel like the players are going to know more about the situational bonuses they might have to saving throws better than the GM might.

Still, everyone rolling for saves does sometimes slow everything down a bit, so there is that, which is why I don't mind much either way.

Rolling saves does help momentum but it's very easy to miss some conditional bonus.

I'd rather roll my own saves. But, if you do want to do them that's no problem. My modifiers are on my quick stat line in point form, with more details on my character sheet under saves.

I can see it both ways. I don't mind you rolling them, but the conditional modifiers are going to be pretty important to keep track of. If you're up for it, I'd say go for it.

I'm a bit on the fence at this point, based on everyone's current comments. I think I can be pretty consistent as far as applying the correct modifiers. It would be foolish for me to say I would get them right all the time, though, as has been demonstrated with other things in the past...

So yeah, I'm curious to hear what Vorya has to say, but I don't want to 'rock the boat' too much, so to speak. If people are ambivalent, it might be best to stick with our current method.

One other note: we can always revisit this topic at higher levels. I don't think it's been too big of an issue so far, but particularly once enemies start casting fireball, lightning bolt, etc. [insert evil GM grin here] being able to roll saves simultaneously could be more efficient.

Additional feedback appreciated!

I don't mind revisiting things at a later point if it becomes necessary

We should probably be looking at a standardized buff list though, maybe investing in an Extend Metamagic Rod (I know that we have one, but we might need a second).

I think we want Communal Protection from Evil, Communal Resist Energy (probably Fire) at minimum. Kilarra probably wants Barkskin at some point, and Rue might want Stoneskin. Theres probably more that I'm missing, but its probably at a point where we want some of these long duration buffs up at all times.

(I just think we got super lucky that Rue rolled well enough to break Domination and don't want him instantly killing Talia or Talivar in a future combat)

Later on there will be multiple saves per round which will really slow things down otherwise.

Happy New Year everyone

Happy New Year!

As sometimes happens I got asked to act as tech support when I visited mum's for new year's day. I was quite surprised when I was asked to back up a folder called Killara. It turns out that's a suburb of Sydney Australia, anyway thought I'd share...

Hey guys, just an idea I was discussing with the GM.

I was thinking of using Talia's visions to see if there was a particular reason why say, we were all targeted by the Red Mantis. I know that when I wrote out backstories I didn't give much thought to why the Red Mantis came after Talia etc

So, I was wondering if people wanted me to dig a little deeper into their backstories to see why they were targetted by the Red Mantis. We don't have to, but it might lead to some personal stakes / connections with NPC's that might come up, and it might be cool playing that out.

Like, Talia probably will do it at some point, because shes obsessed that her parents died, and then she was targetted for Sivlamlik. Don't feel forced into this, I just like reading peoples backstories and idy wondered like, Why Uruelleth is twice killed, Why Alayna was part of a contract and thought it might lead to some interesting avenues, but I'd understand if people want to keep it ambiguous or if its too far down a rabbit hole.

I just like my visions best when they are fleshing out NPC's / fluff more than plot points. Its more fun ^_^

Suggestion: Silvamilk breeding program. That could be why Talivar's daughter was taken too.

Thats one possibility Talivar. Does that mean though that Talivar is ok if Talia peeks into the past at some point and tries to see what triggered the contract on Talivar's daughter?

That does remind me though, I need to think of a way to get Talivar's daughter out of Silvamilk. Its still a long way away but right now, she's like, the perfect hostage to manipulate Talivar into doing what the Vernai want.

Trouble is, you either enter Silvamilk as captured (not err, advisable) or you break in and I bet its warded against Teleportation.

Hmm, something else for Talia to think about.

Talia, that's a great idea! I'm all for it.

Now, I've left the reason for the contract on Urug'dash/Uruelleth sort of up in the air in case Zek wants to get clever and hit me with a surprise. That being said, I've got a few ideas of my own.

I'd hate to spoil something the GM's got in store for my by creating cannon without leave from him, so I'll first wait to see if I get the thumb's up from Zek. But if he's good with it, I'll be happy to write up something about how the contract got placed on my orc-turned-elf.

That, then, could give Talia some prompts for other events in his past that I'll be happy to write up.

(One other thought I had for Talia would be for her to try to view Uruelleth's big accomplishment -- the killing of the gnoll chieftain of Belkzen. Of course, he didn't kill the gnoll, since that was him. He turned in his own head for the bounty. So Talia's spell would fail, possibly indicating that he's a fraud? That he's not who he says he is? But I'm not sure how suspicious she'd be, since Driara mentioned in the fight on the boat that this wasn't Uruelleth's first life.)

Go ahead for the vision. Talivar believes the Andorran Lumber consortium ordered the hit on his wife because she wanted to preserve the forest. He doesn't know why his daughter was taken although it's likely related.

Uruelleth, I’ll admit that I do actually have something in mind for the why and who of your contract.

So... if it’s not too much to ask, stick with writing parts of your backstory that don’t involve the actual contract. I’m pretty much cool with anything else.

There s really cool idea Uruelleth!

I think Talia would still need to know of Rue’s great accomplishment though, and if she gets it from Rue (and the spell fails) her first thought is that she misworded her spell. I don’t really get retries on the same topic, so she wouldn’t get that suspicious. Driara did mention it’s not Rue’s first life, but she probably leaps to the (mistaken) assumption that it’s a Raise Dead spell or something.

There are definitely going to be Red Mantis that know his secret though, and if we find them, we could get more hints and uncover more of his backstory that way.

Edit: darn, GM snuck in while I was typing!

Great idea Talia! I'm more than happy to let you snoop and the GM fill in connections where applicable.

I went back and looked to see if my killing of Urug'dash the Gnoll of Belkzen was mentioned, but it was in a letter to me from Queen Telandia. Still, it's either possible Talia found it and read it (it's not like it's one of Uruelleth's prized possessions), or simply she'd heard of the tale at some point while in Kyonin. It sounded impressive enough that it got him the invitation to the Pact, apparently.

Yeah, Talia really needs Knowledge (Local) at some point to be a fully fledged snooper.

I'll try and find a way of snooping into Uruelleth's backstory, but she probably needs something to be suspicious of to provoke something. I can probably peak into Bastien's history as to why he strung Kilarra along but I'm probably needing to find a specific scene or moment to spy on. Talivar is easy, because I can just peek at the contract and hop from that into a who and/or a why. Maybe I could do the same with Kilarra, but I don't know if the goal of Bastien was to ruin Kilarra, or eliminate her father - or both.

I'd like Talivar to get diplomacy too at some point, he'll be good at it with his charisma score. The contract on Talivar's wife sounds simple for sure, but I wonder if it really is.

Wasn't it a contract on both your wife and daughter though? Or did I misread the backstory behind it, and your daughter was kinda more optional?