MNM Amazing Adventures (Inactive)

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Yeah am here DQ - been away yesterday and still battling my sinus bleh.

Home internet woes are now into their 5th week which is also wearing me down...

RE:The Hulk (an antihero very close to my heart). Actually think the MCU handling has been poor at best. The whole Professor Hulk stuff just doesn't work on screen (David & Franks comic depiction was excellent tho').

After watching Into The Spiderverse I honestly think that is template for how all Marvel character movies should be done in the future, but I know it won't play out like that.

The live action stuff has steadily left me meh, ( out-with the Guardians Movies) and I truly hated Thor: Ragnarok for what it did to the Planet: Hulk story.

That being said because of my love of the source material and its halcyon place in my life I am brutally unforgiving of any depictions of the characters and storylines.

I'm pretty happy with the MCU overall. I enjoy the alternate versions of the comics stories. I wouldn't have minded them getting to Professor Hulk, although he isn't my favorite Hulk. But yeah, leaving out of the conflict of Planet Hulk and then of the Professor Hulk story made me sad. I know the whole "no Hulk only movies because of the Universal deal." But I would have liked one movie where they focused on the negotiations between Hulk and Banner to get to the Professor. They could have easily used Vision and/or Wanda to mediate those interactions.

Marcus/McFeely have never known how to write Hulk (or perhaps the Russos to direct). I never read Planet Hulk so I can't speak to comparisons with the comic; I can say that the plot of Ragnarok at least did well to highlight the conflict between Banner and Hulk and I thought he was the best written as he'd been in the MCU (even if to some, that may be damning with faint praise). Taika Waititi did a better job at least--looking at the story as self contained, mind. While I have a lot of issues with Whedon, I also thought he did a good job with Bruce/Hulk (though of course I hated the love story in Age of Ultron). But M&M and the Russos, no. And Professor Hulk felt like a cop out rather than a character development because it just seemed like they were tired of writing him some other way. It was just suddenly there, and mainly to be convenient to the plot, rather than a major development or revelation for the character.

As much as I LIKE Hulk (and I adore Mark Ruffalo), the MCU version of him absolutely has been hamstrung by rights issues as well as some not being able to write him as well as others. I actually wish in Endgame that he had gone with the 2014 crew, and sacrificed himself on Vormir. They don't know what to do with him, better to kill him off nobly -- and indeed Vormir might have been the only way to kill him thoroughly. The two snaps at the end could have been either combined into one, or one of them could have been performed by Cap or Captain Marvel or Thor.

I also have the very unpopular opinion that they never should have built up to Infinity War to begin with; they ramped the threats up to cosmic level way too fast and we never actually just got to watch the Avengers just get along and kick some butt. They have almost always been at odds with one another which has been no fun to watch--start it that way, sure. But their relationship never got any better. They were there out of sense of duty or out of a sense of fanboying Cap, or both. That Natasha calls them her "family" baffles me--when have we ever seen them as a whole actually be there for her in any meaningful way? Cap, specifically, yes, and Hawkeye, specifically, yes (though at this point they hadn't seen each other in five years and their relationship should have been strained as they got to know each other once again) but not the Avengers as a whole. Surely SHIELD (Clint, Fury, Maria, et al) were far more of a family to her.

But then we will get into my ranting about all the things I hated about Endgame and I've done that enough on these forums. Back to pretendy funtimes and Dottie (for me--carry on obviously :) ).

Did/Do hope they bring in the Simon Williams/Wonderman dynamic with Vision & Scarlet Witch... will bring my hope of seeing Wondy & Beast (Perez era Avengers double-act par excellence) to the big screen.

With regards Planet: Hulk - can highly recommend - if only for the pathos and tipping the Banner/Hulk dynamic on its head. Banner plays a minor role as he's too weak to survive Sakaar, instead yielding control to Hulk who finds his true place as a leader and hero amongst the enslvaed alien races). Its essentially Spartacus in Space lol. Should you ever read you'll get a feel for the travesty that is Thor: Ragnarok (not to mention the whole Marvel-lite use of the Ragnarok myth etc).

Agree with you DQ - having the whole cosmic arena open up much further down the line (a la say the Kree/Skrull War). Domestic threats and establishing Zemo/Hydra - the Skull's legacy etc would have been cooler (as well as using AIM far more).

Interesting I tagged an article you may find interesting: Peggy Carter's Husband in Captain America: Winter Soldier Was Steve Rogers... Apparently... (Apologies if this is old news for you - just found it a little "left-field" with the whole timeline/multiple realties approach..).

I too will cease my ranting lest I draw ire on more of the watered down versions of classic stories that the MCU spoiled (i my old skool Marvel Zombie opinion)

We Do Not Discuss Cap's Ending in Endgame Lest DQ Explodes. (Already raged about it on the Fawtl thread not long ago.) (And also the assertion in that headline is disagreed with by the directors who say anything Cap did in the past would be an alternate universe.)

Copy that Gold Leader.

We interrupt this nerdrage sesh FOR SOME VERY IMPORTANT HULK RELATED NEWS

I know it's just a logo. It's just a logo. *breathes*

BUT YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah DQ just saw that - could be pretty cool. Just hope they don't play it too much for laughs a la Byrne's run on She-Hulk and take their cue from the "Hulk" (Vol 4) series.

Regardless will get a kick out of seeing lesser know characters like Wyatt Wingfoot, Blonde Phantom et al if they crop up.

I'm hoping for something along the lines of Charles Soule's She-Hulk solo. It had a good balance of humor and seriousness, and played with all sides of Jennifer's life and personality really well. But no, I don't think something toned like Byrne's She-Hulk would be a good idea or a good fit for the universe (that's best left to Deadpool). Of course they have to go through her origin first before she's settling down to be a lawyer for underserved supers. And they can't use Patsy Walker for the role she played in that comic, but they definitely could bring in some other lesser known folks like you say.

Forgotten about Soule's She-Hulk - yeah was an excellent blend and ahead of its time to be honest (which is why it likely got cancelled).

Might be a way to (re) introduce DD & Co into the "new" TV universe...

A couple years has to pass before the rights for all the Netflix characters to revert to Marvel's possession. The earliest we can see DD and Co would be I think 2021, maybe late 2020? But on the other hand, these other shows like She-Hulk are also early in development, I think. Not sure they've even been cast. So maybe by the time they get going, it would be feasible to work the Defenders crew into things. Definitely I'd love to see Matt Murdock show up in She-Hulk. Seems somehow requisite.

And Jennifer vs Hogarth....

I'd love to see She-Hulk. I've wanted that for a while. I wonder if they will play the genre game that they have played for various movies and turn it into a show about the law. I'd watch a Good Wife/Good Fight style show where the lead was also a Hulk.

One issue I worry about is that part of what I enjoy about She-Hulk is the struggle vs the Hulk image as a rage monster. If the public perception of Hulk is as the Endgame Hulk, that is less of a tension.

A number of She-Hulk stories I've read involve her defending (both as a lawyer and as a superhero) persecuted supers. I think even if the "Hulk" stigma is lessened, she will still be dealing with a lot of image issues and challenging prejudice against superheroes--plus, even if Professor Hulk has reduced fear of the Hulk, there are still those who remember his rampages. Heck if they are able to pull from Jessica Jones at all (depending on when this is made and if they decide to do so) they set up Hogarth in S3 as the "anti-supers" lawyer as Jeri was profiting from a lot of superstition. I can see Jennifer coming in to be the adversary to the type of lawyer Jeri is (if not an adversary to Jeri's law firm).

BTW in-game, sorry for whining about the die-roller all the time. Obviously I just had a series of good rolls so I shouldn't be complaining about one... but the extremity of it gets to me. Seems like it's always really high or really low, especially during fights. The swinginess of it gets to me.

Hogarth vs Jen would be an epic courtroom throw down :)

On a side note - clocked that we'll be seeing John Walker/USAgent in Falcon & Winter Soldier. Especially in the current socio-political climate it'll be interesting to see how they play him...

DQ agree on the die-roller - tis a fickle fickle purveyor of fate. We ever hope for that post when fate aligns an a 20 comes up at the perfect moment.

GMST: What "episode/issue" of Amazing Adventures are we on? Only ask as I have a fascination with episodic story arcs and 12 issue landmarks lol.

I am not the GM but by my reckoning I believe we're on episode 3 or 4. Episode 1 was starting up and fighting the mooks and deciding to go on the "heroic" path. Ep 2 was the trip to the community center and Hell's Kitchen, w/ the big fight being on the subway. Ep 3 was costuming up for the first time and heading to the ice house. We're either still on ep 3 (which would have been "short") or started episode 4 with joining up on the gang meeting.

But I've been tracking for narrative purposes as well, because I'm a dork. ;)

I'm very curious about Falcon & Winter Soldier. I'm mad at Cap so the spiteful child in me doesn't want to be interested in his world anymore. But he won't be there (unless Old Man Cap has a role) and Bucky and Sam didn't do anything wrong, and their dynamic is interesting (and the actors' bro chemistry is great). Sharon is supposed to be in it and might finally get some actual character development (I feel so sorry for Emily Van Camp and how she's been shafted; she was originally supposed to be the lead woman in Winter Soldier and got sidelined for Scarlett Johannson--and that's tough because I LOVE Widow's role in Winter Soldier, but nonetheless Agent 13 really got done dirty). I agree US Agent's presence will also be really interesting, not sure if he will be an ally or enemy. I have a feeling he may start adversarial--with him being the government sanctioned character vs Sam's rebel Captain America.

In my reckoning, rolling out of the meeting in the SUV would be the end of episode 3. For pacing, I'm leaning much more on the arcs in the Netflix shows than on comic arcs, just because I much better understand how to write for television.

Episode 4 would begin with the conversation in the SUV.

Not to be greedy, but if we're starting a new "episode" do we get a hero point?

Lore Question: It's mentioned in Agents of SHIELD (I tried to find a clip but couldn't) that Peggy Carter investigated Darkforce under the name "Zero Matter" and mentions that Isodyne (Whitney Frost's company) was later bought by Roxxon. The conversation and screeninfo indicates that this was something that came up in an early SHIELD case (which would be a few years after Agent Carter Season 2 where Whitney Frost and Zero Matter are the threat).

Would Dottie, eventually being recruited by Peggy, and having survived zero matter, have been made aware of any of this?

The main point of my question is if she would make a connection to Roxxon, since they've already shown up. She would remember Whitney spared Hugh Jones, the CEO of Roxxon, but I don't know what she is aware of with the follow up and don't want to presume.

I was just realizing this afternoon that, in fact, you should have a Hero Point.

As for the Lore:

1. Woohoo! I got all of that right. Thank goodness for wikis.

2. My initial response was "yes, let's have Dottie make all of those connections." But after some more thought, it seems like a better idea to turn that into narrative fodder. Could Dottie remember a reference to it but not all of the details? Could she have some files stashed somewhere from before she was framed, but it would be dangerous to go back there because the location is known to SHIELD who is looking for her?

And Frank, I don't it to sound like this is the Dottie show. But I'm hoping that the Manfredi involvement keeps your backstory in the front of the narrative as well.

Not at all - letting Dottie have her moment in the spotlight darklight lol.

By all means, Frank, I want to see your backstory come into this too!

I was thinking about it and I like the idea of her knowing where some files might be (could even be the old SSR offices at the telephone company--someone who is actually more Agent Carter obsessive than I am discovered there is an old phone building in Brooklyn Heights that was probably the model for the location... and it was/is a few blocks away from where there used to be an old Horn and Hardart Automat (the model for the L&L Automat)).

As for her memories---I figure the traumatic ones will be clear (I remember hearing my great uncle talk about World War II), but yeah, I think it's fine if other details would be fuzzy. I had her mention Isodyne, and maybe she remembers Isodyne is important/came up later, but can't put her finger on the case because she was more removed from it.

BTW here's the article about possible locations of things in Agent Carter, which if it is not useful for the game, is at least some fun New York City architectural history nerdery. It is impressively well-researched and the author does a good job at noting both why and why not a given location might work.

Great article. Sorry I never responded to that. I'm trying to keep things fairly "real" with regard to locations.

My posting will be erratic this week due to work.

Couple of awesome "scenes" gang - kudos to the pair of you :)

Thans. Trying to remember there's just us three so try to take liberties with detail. If it gets too much or overdone, please let me know.

While I haven't done much of this yet, I am also trying to bear in mind SuperTumbler's style that we can also take scene elements and run with them, create NPC convos, etc. and more fully add to a scene or event (and also throw things at the GM and one another) to play with further. Hoping to try to do more of that where I can (outside of playing a little Fate System, it's not a playstyle I'm used to though). This is a scenario though at the moment where she isn't going to be that interactive--she's just kind of scared right now.

I'm foreseeing an interesting potential conflict between Constrictor and War Widow. She is trying to do the right thing, but still has a soldier/assassin's view of what that right thing is (not to mention she has sociopathic tendencies what with being raised as a child soldier during the Depression under Stalin's rule and all). She doesn't care what other people think of her actions. She would still very readily kill if she needs to (and if the frakkin' dice would let her, *grumble grumble.*) Frank is being pulled toward the heroic effort, wanting not just to become a hero but be seen as one in at least his daughter's eyes, if not the world. There may be a point where they are going to vehemently disagree on how to handle a given situation. I hope this is a thing to work forward to--obviously we can't "split the party" on a long term especially as there's two of us, but if we handle it right it makes for good story rather than takes away from it.

Agree 100% - Frank is afraid of the fact that playing/being the "bad guy" is an easy role. Actually stepping up as a hero will be a challenge (one his previous failure at will weigh heavy).

Dottie's much colder/clinical approach will most likely bring a degree of conflict about decisions, but like you say that will be fun to RP out as well.

Gah, sorry for the info dump. Not very natural dialogue!!

Tumbler, I accidentally posted to the game thread as Deathquaker, and while I deleted the post, the campaign has now marked "me" as a "character." Can you please,go into campaign settings and mark "DeathQuaker" as inactive?

Slammed at work at present - 2020 budget estimates eating up my time, normal service will hopefully be resumed by weekend.

@All: Just a wee heads up that I'm off down to Edinburgh (Auld Reekie) tomorrow for a couple of days catching up with an old buddy.

Back Friday but likely (a little) worse for wear. Anticipate normal service will resume o'er the weekend.

Please bot me as necessary :)

Speaking of upgrades... not to sound greedy, but I just realized we've been playing for a little over a year and have not yet received any experience points. Have we maybe earned a few by now? Mama needs a new pair of skill points.

(And yes, I hope we'll be able to get her a new suit of armor but I expect that'll come in due time. I can't actually increase my Toughness any higher per se (though the suit would replace the 1 point she gets from the jacket, though the suit could make it impervious and/or replace what she gets from Defensive Roll which is conditional Toughness. And of course we can tie other add ons to the suit as opportunities arise and new points to spend become available.)

(I've thought about rejiggering her combat build as she feels ineffective sometimes, but it's really just weird die rolling. Her CQC to-hit is as high as it can be without making tradeoffs. Even if I turned her unarmed combat ability into a "power" the attack bonus would be the same, just the damage would be higher. And when the enemies are rolling nat 20s on Toughness checks that doesn't matter.)

I'm happy for you guys to progress as you think the story warrants. Let's do two power points. This might represent an upgrade, but could just as easily be explained as bringing rusty skills/powers online.

I think you are fine on the basics of your combat build, the mooks just keep crushing their rolls. And I think we want to maintain some noir tropes of you guys having a tough time and getting beat up.

I am absolutely loving this scene, and I don't want to hurry it along at all, so once you decide what direction you want to head, I can think of a few options, of course feel free to go your own direction:

1. Directly try to observe Negative and/or his men.
2. Pursue information in the Roxxon direction. Did they continue research into the Zero Matter? Do they have files somewhere?
3. The previously discussed facility that Dottie might know about?
4. I can toss you a direction from the Manfredis.

Well, we went back to Duke's to fetch the mask (yes, I have noticed the *mask* theme... but poor ol' Dot is utterly oblivious to that possibility, tee hee hee), to give to Joe to see if his people could figure out the source of the tech.

She also still wants to find out if anything became public about what happened at the Bathhouse.

It feels premature to pursue Roxxon and I think that's a step both Dottie and Frank want to avoid--although it's a thread they'll pick up eventually if need be. Observing Negative will come as opportunity strikes. There's also weird bone dude who died, which may circle back as they think about needing a scientist (he was obviously working for one).

The facility Dottie would know about is the New York Telephone Company Building. It was still the New York branch of the SSR when Whitney was a thing (although the active files would have been in LA, Peggy was still officially on loan to LA from the NY branch), and Dottie started her research into the Arena Club in New York (aka the bank robbery).

SHIELD has a habit of sealing up old bases rather than destroying them. AOS uses an old SSR facility when in hiding at one point. Dottie would have been a SHIELD agent when SHIELD transferred from Lehigh to the Triskelion, and would know it had been sealed up (in the condition Cap and Black Widow found it in the Winter Soldier). She'd have a guess that the Telephone Company SSR base is still hidden, sealed up inside the building. Trick would be how to get in.

And as noted, it's based on a building in Brooklyn Heights (the Bell Company Building) so in the purview of our campaign. That building today is I believe a mix of apartments and a certification school.

If there's another facility she'd know about you can toss that in (SHIELD certainly likely had several bases and safehouses throughout New York).

I'm willing to follow that lead although there's a risk they'll trigger SHIELD monitoring devices if they try to break in. OTOH it's so old it may be forgotten.

PS: Once Dottie is done chatting with Frank, she updates her string board

(And as a reminder, her actual version of this game is written in a personal code using the cyrillic alphabet.)

And thanks for the XP!

Sorry, you are often more on top of things than I am. Who is the Jones connecting Dark Matter and Roxxon?

Like the idea of appropriating an old SHEILD safehouse or facility for our "base". Agree that Roxxon aren't on the agenda (yet) and unless we uncover an major play by them in this gang-war then likely they'll keep for a few episodes (or into Season 2...)

Duke's is fine for Frank and Dottie, but if we're going to carry this fight then War Widow and Constrictor need to operate out of somewhere more "befitting" (and will less collateral damage potential).

DQ - that board continues to amaze :)

Hugh Jones the 40s Roxxon CEO, was spared by Whitney, but she thinks that's probably a tenuous connection, hence the dotted line. It's added only because Roxxon showed up recently and she doesn't want to forget.

We agreed she does not know Isodyne was bought by Roxxon.

I was only suggesting the SSR hq as a place to search, but using it as a base could be interesting. Dot wanted to reclaim the ice house (use one room as a base and the rest be cleaned up and opened as free space for the homeless to sleep). But that depends on what happens to it.

BTW BD, we're still waiting on Frank's reply IC to continue. :)

I'm trying to fuse the show and reality but I'm having a hard time tracking down the Telephone building. Is it the BelTel building on Willoughby?

Yes. That article I linked upthread has a good picture.

I've got it! Inspired by Bridget Regan as Hagrid for Halloween, we should go to the day care disguised as Harry Potter characters. That beard suits her, I think.

BTW finally spent my XP on two advantages: Improved Trip and Skill Mastery: Athletics.

I realize now suddenly this means she can climb up/down a brick wall without making a skill check so if this is too conveniently placed for this particular adventure I can pretend I don't have it yet.

Sorry not even thought about Franks advancements. Will have a mull and see what fits - like DQ want it to feel an "organic" development.

I had a dream last night about Dottie in the present day. She saw ninjas trying to blow things up in front of a church labeled "Temple of the Golden Brotherhood."

For some reason, she didn't want to yet reveal her own capabilities so called 911 to be like, "Hey, ninjas are blowing things up, shouldn't the police be maybe concerned"? A really gruff sounding sterotypical-to-movies police officer got on the line with her, and was just like, "You didn't see anything, now get out of there! The Golden Brotherhood is coming, and you don't want to mess with them." Followed by a general argument indicating the police were going to do nothing and she should just leave and forget what she saw. It was not clear if the Ninjas WERE the Golden Brotherhood or their enemies.

She then runs into another nearby building (I think another church) to warn a group of people hiding there, there's trouble up the street, and they need to mobilize. Some are preparing to run, some to fight (seems to be like some sort of refugee or underground group of rebels). Someone shouts something derisive at her at one point about her capability to fight the ninjas and she says, "I fought Hitler, I can handle this!"

An entertaining dream at least. I guess I had the campaign on my subconscious mind! Better than my usual panic dreams where I'm trying to get somewhere and keep being delayed or trying to call someone and my phone won't work.

Tumbler/DQ - just a heads up that recently got the awful news that our beloved 9 year old rescue staffy, Darby, has an aggressive brain tumour and only 4-6 weeks left with us.

Our red boy is the epicentre of our lives and this has pretty much shocked us to the core. We're brokenhearted and if over the next few days and weeks my posting suffers please bear with and bot me as necessary.

BD

I'm so sorry to hear that, that's rough. Take the time you need to, BD. We'll be here.

Is it safe to assume Frank will give Dottie the info about the results of his die rolls? I can post a little to move us and then we can wait till you're ready to play.

Cheers DQ - yeah sounds a plan.

Devastating news, BD.

We have the luxury here of taking our time, so don't worry about us.

I just realized I forgot to look at Samberley's file. But I realized that's so perfect to his character that I feel like I should leave it.

Poor Aloysius, always being overlooked.