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Fellow Pathfinders,
I have a group who has decided to change gears with me and we're looking for a few more player for a high powered but brutal rendition of the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path set on Athas.
Short story, I was inspired by this post:
I'd like to try something like this using conversions of some of the Black Spine material (maybe using part of Litch Queen's Beloved from Dragon for the last part), and the Necromancer Games version of the City of Brass.
Rules:
Any third party etc. goes as long as it fits Athas. I'm going to throw in stuff from 3rd party sources and re-fluff it with abandon.
Classes: No multi-classing except for prestige classes. VMC or multi class archetypes instead. Gestalt with feat every level or one class with 3 feats every level or alternative rules for 'feat chains' posted below
35 pts. buy or roll 5d6, drop lowest.
Wounds and Vigor (Ultimate Combat).
Alternative Action Economy (Unchained (see cheat sheet below).
Background skills (Unchained).
Using mythic.
Automatic bonus progression as per 2 levels higher (the version where there are basically no magic items).
Advancement by DM fiat instead of creature death -- I'm just going to level you up when you need to for the next piece, I don't have any interest in calculating XP and having to ration that out.
Start at third level with 1 mythic tier. We're going to go 1 mythic tier every 2 levels.
Hero Points.
Stamina and combat tricks.
I'm open to suggestions...
CAMPAIGN DOCUMENTS:
RULES:
Alternative Feat Progression Rules for Single Class Characters
We're going to spend a couple of weeks making characters, there is no hurry, thanks for the interest.
May the dicebots look upon me with favor:
= 11
= 16
= 16
= 17
= 16
= 12
And apparently they did!
You said you'd used the conversion document I linked -- what did you think of the rules? Did they work?
I'm looking for a replacement for Aracockra and Pterrans and I think it will be easier to come up with equivalents that are also about RP 18-19, any ideas anyone?
We are still using traits right? 2 plus 1 for drawbacks was what we did before?
=15
=16
=12
=13
=17
=13
Not bad at all
At least one half of my character is going to be psionic I have no doubt.
I mean it isn't set in stone but I love the psionic classes and DSP does good work.
You said you'd used the conversion document I linked -- what did you think of the rules? Did they work?
They seemed to work well. It was a short campaign, so can't speak long term. Also dropped a line to my cousin who wrote a lot of Dark Sun stuff to see if he would drop in and comment on your other question about the Aracockra and Pterrans as well.
Original disgruntled player and a tentative dot.
Original Player with dice rolls:
16
15
18 (wow!)
14
15
13
This time the dice gods have favored me! Though that one 5d6 spread..4x6s and 1x5!
Can make just about anything with that...
Would this Prc be allowed in this game? walker in the waste
Interested
Anyone know if there's a way to get the Dark Sun races in HeroLab? This is interesting, but I'd rather not try to kludge them together in the race builder myself.
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For stats while it says drop lowest, I’m pretty sure it means drop 2 lowest. Otherwise I’d have a 24 in one stat...
An OG player, back to have a good time.
Wow those stat rolls are erratic as can be, two 18's but a 7?
Yeah I mean drop 2
Yeah Grumb is right about the stats, dm forgot to write two lowest.
Yes! That'd be awesome for flavor wise.
Can I get a yay or nah on the PrC Sebe?
I have a soft spot for Athas, dot. I guess my only worry is, this sounds like a very high powered game - granted Athas is a brutal place so maybe that's OK. Mythic tiers provide some very unbalanced stuff, presumably you're looking for interesting characters over something hat wants to one round Borys :)
Teiidae -- that looks fine for Prestige classes.
FangDragon. Look at the Sorcerer King stats in the conversion -- they're like 45th level or something.
Alright...been putting some thought into this. And I think that I've got a build that I like.
Race: Elf (+4 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con)
Classes: Black Blade Kensai Magus / Inspired Blade Swashbuckler (all good saves)
VMC Wizard (probably teleportation school)
The basic idea behind this...
(1) Full BaB Magus? Always fun.
(2) Automatic Bonus Progression gives a 'free' magic weapon of choice. Bladebound Magus gives a magic weapon as a class feature. Put the two together? Magic Sword and Magic Bow. Boom, done.
Feats
Lvl 1: Weapon Finesse (swashbuckler), Weapon Focus Rapier (swashbuckler), Fencing Grace (Lvl 1 Feat)
Lvl 3: VMC Wizard (Greensting Scorpion familiar, +4 Initiative)
Str (13) Dex (22) Con (14) Int (17) Wis (14) Cha (15)
Initiative: +14 (+6 initiative, +2 Elf, +4 familiar, +2 swashbuckler)
Equipment:
Silken Ceremonial Armor +1 (ACB)
Rapier +1 (black blade)
Longbow +1 (ACB)
Masterwork Buckler (0ACP)
This will give an AC of: 10 + 6 (dex) + 3 (int) + 1 (swashbuckler) + 2 (armor) + 1 (buckler) = 23.
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And definately going VMC Wizard Conjuration-Teleportation. Because at lvl 7?
7x times per day, as a swift action, can teleport 15ft without provoking an AOO. Meaning? 5ft step, safely cast a touch spell, swift action teleport, and free action to deliver touch spell. No defensive casting needed. :)
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Only question is...which mythic to go down?
I’ve always wanted to play in a darksun campaign! This looks very interesting. Let’s see what I can come up with...
Grumbaki here. Character in profile.
Went Mythic Archmage. Before having that, Malkaer had 3x shocking grasps, and that was all he could cast each day. Now he has 5x extra spell slots, letting him cast any spell that he knows. This takes him from being a swashbuckler with some extra damage, to actually being a spell caster.
Also as Mythic Power, I took Mythic Sustenance. Not needing food, water, or to even breathe? That's just a fluffy power in normal pathfinder. In Athas? That's huge.
----
Do we have any starting money? Mostly just to buy the mundane equipment needed, as I understand that we have more than enough toys due to ABP.
sounds interesting. Let me start thinking.
Ok, dotting, I'll admit it, I love Dark Sun, But I never seem to get a good feel for a character Idea, but let's try again.
A few questions:
Do we know how many 'original players' there are and what classes their playing?
How many 'new' players you are selecting?
Coming in at third level are we starting at the 3rd level wealth of 3,000 gp?
May we start with 'any' steel items (that aren't city/trait related)?
Do you know what City-state we will be starting in?
If we don't like the rolls can we take the 35 pt. build?
Interested for sure! I think i’ll see what I can come up with for 35 pt buy. :)
Some questions:
1) What races are available? Your house rules suggest it's wide open but the setting pdf suggests a much more limited selection.
2) Are we going with the normal "Arcane magic is feared and despised" element of the setting? The first ideas I had all involved being an arcane caster somehow, but in the setting that seems like a very dangerous idea.
”Magic? No, psionic power, my good friend. Trust me, would I lie to you?”
Well, here's Tkk-tkk. I'll be fleshing out the backstory as things go.
I'm going to try to do a round up of questions:
@Robert Henry
-There are five players moving with me. They're still deciding above. People can overlap, as long as we have decent coverage, which it seems like we will.
-I'm willing to have up to a dozen players I guess. I haven't found having too many people is an issue. I'd rather have a few extra players in case someone drops.
-Sure, for the wealth. I'm not into the shopping cart aspect of the game. If that's enough to buy appropriate equipment, whatever, but I'd rather just hand wave it. Just select appropriate things.
-You can start with metal if you make a story about it that's appropriate to the character, and are okay if people want to skin you for it :p.
-Unless someone else feels strongly, I think we should be in Tyr since that has a setting book I own I can use.
-You can try both methods and pick the one you like best.
@Ouachitonian
-I'm bothered by the race issue too, since Aaracockra and Pterrans are some of what makes Athas for me. You can use other races, but we'll have to play with it a bit, like add a template. You'll notice the races in the conversion are like 18-25RP, whereas normal races are like 10RP. I'm open to anything as long as it fits Dark Sun, and we can make it comparable with the other players. Does anyone have ideas for Aracockra and Pterrans?
I'm more treating that conversion as a base to expand from than a tight confines. I'm going to add appropriate monsters, classes, and races from lots of other sources.
-You could be a Defiler or Preserver in 2e and all other versions, so assuredly you can be an arcane caster. I need to look at that part of the fluff again. Surely there's some way they justified it -- they expected PCs to include Preservers... but you should feel free to make an arcane caster, that's very much my idea that that's a possibility.
I want to emphasize too about the power issue -- one of the reasons I'm doing XP by fiat is that I want it to be possible to advance without charging into every combat. I'm going to run this as very deadly and gritty for combats, if you do that you're going to get smooshed hard. You can have an impressive array of abilities, but I don't think it will matter if you try to go toe to toe with a 45th level sorcerer king.
I'm letting you start a bit higher in the spirit of 2e rules, but also because I want everyone to come up with a bit of back story. I do want to do a lot of role playing and really take advantage of the unique setting.
You keep the highest three - sorry, that was a clarification above. so that's actually 17, 10, 10, 13, 11, 14
I think I am going to play a Mul, and will probably go Ranger/Cleric, though I haven't hammered it out for sure yet, so not certain... just throwing it out for the people who asked what the original players were playing.
So to avoid total power gaming, shall we assume wealth is like the last go around?
Anything mundane within reason, to ensure character is built properly?
yeah, just pick some fair equipment, I'm not really interested in the imaginary economy and shopping
Original player here (Hawk),I'm somewhat built. I definitely plan to go Sightless Blademaster.
I can go with Runic Berserker if we want a more front line tough fighter. This version would be very heavily armored and excellent for checking unknown areas.
Storm Blade would make for a much more agile fighter, more akin to Grumbaki, so if he doesn't want another dex fighter, I can switch to another.
Lastly, I could go Kinetic Knight. Air would make for an interesting character, with much more serious out of combat abilities.
Sightless Blademaster? Pure awesome. I once figured out how to make the class, getting bllindsense while being blind at lvl 3. But that required many, many hoops to jump. This gets there simply at lvl4. I like it.
I honestly don't care if we have more than one dex to damage fighter. That said, I'd advise against Storm Blade. Sightless Blademaster is Full BaB and d10HP. Having another class that does the same would be redundant.
That leaves you with Runic Berserker and Kinetic Knight.
I'd suggest Kinetic Knight. Kineticists fit Athas really well. The class *feels* very psionic. It also meshes better with the Sightless Blademaster, as it would help explain why he can see while blind, and the Full BaB + D10 HP become a huge plus.
----
Now, the entire thing does feel very Dex based. I mean, sightless blademaster? That just screams dex. So Lvl 1 Feat Weapon Finesse and Your Tier 1 Mythic Feat Mythic Weapon Finesses gives you dex to hit and damage.
---
Together, we'd make a good team. :)
By the way...thank you for the link.
I've decided to switch my Swashbuckler class for Blade Disciple
Thematically, it just feels like it works better for the character. That, and it's a bit less book keeping. All the swashbuckler deeds take up *alot* of space, and for play-by-post can be hard to implement. So this will work out well.
You're not wrong, it feels wrong to have a blind man entrapped within steel rather than lithely twisting and turning, but there is an issue. Kinetic Knight causes the defensive ability to become only usable with heavy armor and a shield. That's not a huge turn off, but does negotiate the anti range benefit of air.
I don't know if you saw, but weapon finesse is basically a free feat under this awesome DM. So dex and combat maneuver builds are much more reasonable to accomplish.
Does anyone have any backstory in mind for their characters?
No, I didn't! I missed that the feat tax rules are in effect. That's great! It means an extra feat to play with. Due to my low Con, my fort save is too low for my taste. Great Fortitude brings my saves up to 7/10/7 :)
Alright...now we are using Wounds and Vigor.
Wound Points Typically a creature has a number of wound points equal to twice its Constitution score. It also has a wound threshold equal to its Constitution score. Wound points represent the amount of physical punishment a creature can take before it dies. When a creature’s wound points drop to or below its wound threshold, that creature becomes wounded. When a creature is wounded, it gains the staggered condition until it is no longer wounded. Furthermore, when a creature is wounded, if that creature takes any standard or move action on its turn, its remaining wound points are reduced by 1 and it must make a DC 10 Constitution check. If the creature fails that check, it falls unconscious.
As Malkaer has Con13 (Elf...) that comes out to be 26 wounds.
Creatures with one or more full Hit Dice or levels gain vigor points. With each level gained or each Hit Die a creature has, it gains a number of vigor points based on its Hit Die type.
Lvl 1: 10
10+6+7=23, so he has 23 Vigor.
---------------------------------
You're not wrong, it feels wrong to have a blind man entrapped within steel rather than lithely twisting and turning, but there is an issue. Kinetic Knight causes the defensive ability to become only usable with heavy armor and a shield. That's not a huge turn off, but does negotiate the anti range benefit of air.
Ok...this becomes hard to do. Because Athas doesn't have much in the way of metal. But here is an idea!
Nimble Stoneplate.
Heavy Armor that is made out of stone. +8 AC, with +3 Max Dex AC.
Let's assume that your race gives you floating +2/+2. And you rolled these stats:
18/18/15/15/11/7
So you end up with Str (11) Dex (20) Con (20) Int (15) Wis (15) Cha (7)
Now, for armor. Athas doesn't have much in the way of metal, so you can't have a chain shirt. The next best is studded leather. +3AC+5Dex=AC18
Or, with the stoneplate...
+8AC+3Dex=AC21
So even though you can't make full use of your dex, you still end up with higher AC. Infact, you won't match the stoneplate with your dex until you get up to Dex26! So this armor stays relevant for a very long time.
Throw in a heavy wooden shield, and you will be as heavily armored as an Athasian could possibly be.
--------------------------
Alternatively:
Darkwood Nimble Tatami-do Armor with a Darkwood Heavy Shield
+7 AC, with +3 max dex AC, -6 ACP normally
After upgrades...+6 AC, with +5 max dex AC, -1 ACP
Assuming Dex20 (from one of your 18s), you end up with AC24 before feats. You use all of your Dex for AC as well.
And you get to look Athasian, with your full suit of wooden armor.
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Finally, for fluff...
http://www.athas.org/articles/plant-life-of-athas
"Agafari Tree - A tree of the Crescent Forest, agafari wood is extremely hard and is the next best thing to metal. The wood is used to make weapons and shields and is a major trade good of Nibenay. The tree's bark has a bluish tint. At the top of the tree, which can be over 100 feet tall, the boughs spread out in great, sweeping fans. The enormous heart-shaped leaves are the color of turquoise. These large trees can actually be hollowed out without killing the tree."
So if you do go with the wooden armor route, there is a good fluff reason for why your character is covered in wooden armor. Heck, it could go into your character origin stories, if he is from Nibenay.
Other original player here planning on rolling an Aberrant/Psion both psionic classes from dreamscarred press. Focusing on natural weapons for once and some huge two-handed weapon, while also being able to hurl lightning and crush minds with my thoughts.
Malkaer Illuvinar was once a member of the Silver Hands Tribe of elves. Under the leadership of their chieftain, the tribe had done the unthinkable. It had settled down. They had even gone so far as to build a fortified compound to defend their claim of the Silver Spring Oasis.
Like most elves, Malkaer had the urge within him to run free. And the sedentary life of defending a claim of oasis rankled. As such, he took every possibility to leave the oasis and to run through the deserts. Be it along the trade routes to Tyr and Ulrik, or just out into the wastes, he cared not. So long as he went where his heart demanded.
It was not much of a surprise to his fellows when he failed to return. They assumed that their erstwhile kinsman had either fallen prey to the harsh landscape, the denizens, or a raider, within the desert. Either that, or wandered off. They were, however, wrong.
Deep within the wastes of Athas, Malkaer came across the remnants of a battle. Bleached bones lay in the sun, along with bone and stone weaponry. It was clear that this was once a trading caravan. The worst part though, was not the destruction of life and property. It was the tell-tale signs of defiler magic. The very ground was dead, sucked dry of all life.
The young elf picked his way through the ruins, going unerringly towards it...it was an obsidian stone that hummed with power. He found it within the ribcage of a man, something of value that the victors of the battle had left behind. He wondered if it was because the stone had been inside the individual, and thus they had not seen it when they had looted it?
Eyes filled with avarice and curiosity, Malkaer picked up the stone. And his life changed forever. The stone was actually the remnants of an elemental. Either it was once a powerful cleric who had completed his transformation, or a summoned being from the suffering elemental plains. Whatever it was, it had not come out of the contest with the defiler unharmed.
When Malkaer picked it up, he felt something within him change. In a language that the could not understand, the elemental spoke to him. It bargained, it demanded, it offered. What it wanted was to bind itself to Malkaer's soul, for the two to become one. It would give him all of the power that it could summon. And, with him as it's vessel, it would heal itself the damage done to it, and together, they would grow in power. In addition to that, it had one burning desire. Vengeance. Against the defiler who had so harmed it. Against all defilers, who were murdering the planet and the elemental planes. Malkaer agreed. He and the elemental became one. The obsidian twisted and changed, becoming a blade and a shield.
The elf who left the wastes was not the same one who had entered it. Unerringly, he found himself running towards the city state of Tyr. Why? He knew now. Truly, he didn't care. He was running free, able to explore the world and all it offered. And what did it matter if he was no longer alone, or if he now had a creature bound to his soul with a hatred for all defilers? All it meant was that his life was destined to become much more interesting.
The background above should explain why Malkaer is mythic, and where his black blade came from. As his buckler is going to be a legendary item, it will become part another part of the elemental which is now bound to him.
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Also, when is this set? Is it after the Prism Pentad?
If so...
https://rpg.rem.uz/Dungeons%20%26%20Dragons/AD%26D%202nd%20Edition/Dark%20S un/Beyond%20The%20Prism%20Pentad.pdf
We'll need to deal with dangers such as the Tyr Storms, and Tyr's government will be different
17
17
13
16
16
13
That looks rather promising.
I really like DS and this sounds like it could be a lot of fun.
That does bring me to a question though: Would you allow a Ssurran? If so, how would you approach it? I guess the lizardfolk as statted up by paizo is a great start but it doesn't quite hit the mark.
I'm not sure what I want to play but man this looks like fun. I have two questions 1)will you allow a gestalt of a hybrid class and one of it's bases, i.e a brawler and a monk? 2) will you allow the performance feats and if so what's your feeling on the feat performing combatant which allows you to use the performance feats outside performance combat.
I don't remember what we said last time. Do feats and abilities that increase hp, increase your vigor points or your wound points?
Cuan, I think there is a lizardfolk of sorts in the Conversion guide. The Dray I think, I'm partial to reptilian races. Probably change the give lizardfolk a little stat boost, minimum 1d4 bite, a little extra NA and a climb speed instead of swim and you should be good.
@Cuan - ssuran is fine, but you'll have to come up with something, I can work with you on that. I'm not limiting myself to the material in that conversion document, like I said above, I see it as a place to start, not a set of limitations.
@Will Pratt -- yeah that's fine with the class combo. The other thing is fine as well.