We will begin doing a timewarp, at the beginning of battle. Please reroll initiative with your improved stats and state your first move. As last time, the sole enemy will be automatically going first as you are now are going to turn him into paste.
Hope it isn't too off-putting, but if anything, let's try it for a while and see if it becomes an issue for you.
No issue here.
Magus' are weird. Hopefully I am doing it right.
So. Magus Spellstrike
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
So when I cast a spell (shocking grasp in this case), I can delivery it with my sword. So I attack with my sword as part of casting the spell. I roll to hit with the scimitar. if I hit, I do damage with the sword, and the spell gets "delivered". If I crit with my weapon the spell "crits" (always x2 even if the weapon is not). That is how I attacked with the sword and spell at the same time.
Now the bite, is because casting a spell is only a standard action, I was taking a full action so I got to use my natural attack. I have it as a racial trait I took as a half orc.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
So it becomes a secondary. So -5 and I only get half my strength to the attack (if I hit).
Now the thing I didn't do, but makes magus even weirder is Spell Combat
At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
This would let me basically do two-weapon fighting, where one is a touch magic attack and the other is a sword swing, both with -2. Once reaching level 2 I can do that with 2 strikes. so a round can look like:
Here is a link that explains it all: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nler?A-Guide-to-Touch-Spells-Spellstrike-and-S pell
I have been reading on Magus, it's tricky.
Most everything seemed to check out. However, I don’t think you can use a spell as part of a full round attack and by the wording of the ability it seems that you get a free mail your attack as part of a spell rather than getting a free spell as part of a normal melee attack.
Unless I’m reading that part wrong, I believe you could either make a full attack action, do the spell with a free attack, or your weird duel wield thing.
Thoughts?
Upon reading everything I think you are right. The only thing I did wrong was bite.
Here are some rounds I could have done:
1. Cast Shocking Grasp, touch attack
2. Cast Shocking Grasp, Delivery with sword
3. Cast Shocking Grasp, Deliver with sword -2, attack again with sword -2.
4. Cast Shocking grasp, Deliver with touch -2, attack again with sword -2
5. Cast Shocking grasp on previous round and hold charge. Then: Attack with sword (and deliver charge of spell), then bite -5.
I would have dropped the bite, if I was doing it right. Since I missed anyway with it, can we drop that? Or would you like me to redo my round?
Its mixing Spellstrike and Spell combat which is weird. That is when I cast a spell, deliver it with a strike of the sword -2, then attack again with a -2. When I have so few spells and not the best BAB in the world I don't think I will use spell combat too often.
Before I do my next round, what should I do about my previous round?
Just some musings on the Magus stuff based on my personal experience with it so far.
Which means losing the spell, losing the delivery, and taking a penalty on the other attack.(obviously if Arcane Mark is an option, that will be a non-issue eventually with the Concentration check getting easier and spell loss not being applicable - in general, of course, it will be easier at later levels, with the lower-level spell slots at least).
But overall, my experiences matches up with not using Spell Combat very often. But: Regular Touch Spell rules apply for Spellstrike. So you can cast the spell, move up to an enemy, then deliver it with the weapon using the free action attack, without defensive casting needed.
I have been using that one quite often - with multi-charge ones like Frostbite, mostly. That means while holding charges I don't get to use Spell Combat once I'm in melee, but I still got an attack rider on the regular attacks(and, if I had a bite, could use that) - plus less drain on the spells available(which are even fewer for me because I have an archetype with diminished casting).
I think both focus variants are quite valid, Magus is a very fun class, also a good number of interesting archetypes. But going for some focus early on(also basing spell selections on that) and only branching out to cover both options when approaching the teen levels seems sensible(then using low-level slots for spell combat and higher level ones for spellstrike, regardless of previous focus.)
Harg, go ahead and redo your last round when you post for the current one, re-rules and everything. The only stipulation is that you have to end up taking a 5 foot step backwards. Sound good?
Magus has some unique behavior. I have been debating using the Arcane Mark "cheese" or not. My plan is to take Close Range so I can use a damaging cantrip eventually. I figured for RP flavor I could use Arcane Mark as my "weapon crafting symbol" since I took Craft Weapons as a skill. So I would have my own crafters mark. Still have not used it, just a thought.
I will redo my round. Thanks for working with me on it, new character doing stuff!
Magus is a really fun class, but it has some strange rules to deal with.
I ran a Suli Magus through 'Reign of Winter' AP and it was great!
Take note:(Based on my understanding)
1. you can Spellstrike or Spell Combat, NOT both at the same time as I understand.
2. The spell you cast with Spell Combat can be ANY spell, not just an attack spell. As a Magus I often would cast a defense or utility spell on my first round of combat if I could. I think the only limitation on the spell you cast is that it must take only a standard action (or less) to cast.
3. The Close Range ability is great, and allows you to use a ranged cantrip almost every round. Its great at lower levels or when you KNOW your opponents have lower than average ACs.
Note on your #1. I think I have read you can..
The spellstrike text just says
whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.
It does not have an action of any kind. Spell Combat is a Full Round Action, just like 2-weapon fighting. But Spellstrike just allows delivery with a weapon for a spell.
Apparently the beta version of Spellstrike said
If used with spell combat, this does not grant an addition attack
This was removed. Now it says:
If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.
So as far as my googling and Magus guide reading is saying, I can. The FAQ section on Magus Page details a bit about Haste and multiple BABs too.
2. Yeah I can cast any spell (like a buff) then attack again with a -2.
3. I wont have Close Range for awhile, since my archetype gets rid of early Arcana. But eventually I can use it to cast Disintegrate. Massive Nova potential at high level.
Sorry this is kinda complex. I appreciate all the help!
Well, one thing: If you can cast Disintegrate, you may want to stick to the Ranged Touch Attack instead of hoping for a Crit :)
On the big guns, making sure they land by not needing Concentration and only targetting Touch can be advantageous *grins*
Also, yes, you can do both. It's actually not THAT complex once you memorized the basic principles.
From there, as said, you should look at your spell list and set priorities.
(for example: there's whole builds going with Magical Lineage(Frostbite), adding Metamagic Rime Spell, and then preparing it in L2/L3 slots with Metamagic Reach(close/medium), Fatiguing+Entangling targets at Range with no Save, one attack/level times)
Aside from that? You already use a high-crit weapon(which is essential), one-handed slashing(for your archetype). *shrug*
I think we were not supposed to min-max for this game, so I'd just take it from there ^_^
I just wanted to say that AFAIK the magus is my character on the board with most posts(1150 currently, I checked), so yeah, I do understand the principles if there's any more questions coming up ;)
I am mostly going to see how it goes as we play. The disintegrate is just a fun idea I read about once.
I don't think I am too min/maxed. Though I did take Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp), so you can expect quite a few Shocking Grasps from me. I figure that fits well with the idea of Iron Gods and technology. Especially with the +3 to hit against metal items. I expect to be in the fray a bit more, vs bouncing in and out a lot, which is why I took Combat Casting as my level 1 feat.
Yeah when I can keen my weapon, it will be pretty fun.
I am going to do my best not to over tune my character. I know there are quite a few weird items that drop (technological) in this AP, so my character's play style might have to adjust.
Thankfully this Spellstrike and Spell Combat is mostly the limit of the complexity. So once I can get it down, I shouldn't be too annoying :)
Well, Shocking Grasp has the disadvantage of 1 attack for 1 casting making you run out of spell slots sooner. If you did take the Lineage for it, you may want to try and get some mileage out of them and pick up Intensified Spell once relevant :) Otherwise? As you say, just see where the journey takes us :)
I have found that each Magus grows differently as the player levels, updates, and changes.
I have two different Magus currently on the PbP boards now (different races/archtypes) and I like both really. One Kensai and one Soul-blade.
They have a LOT of versatility (unless you take a very restrictive Archtype) and are a really good swiss-army knife character usually. More combat oriented than a Bard, but not nearly as squishy as any other combat oriented arcanist.
In my experience, you can spellcombat and attack people with (most often) shocking grasp, or you can use spell combat to buff yourself (and others, depending on the spells you cast). You will want to pick up options that make your concentration checks better (combat casting, there are a pair of magic items I can't remember off the top of my head).
Yeah I have Combat Casting now. Things will get easier at higher levels.
Also really need to work on my Int. I know a few of us could really use Int. We will see what drops. Once I have my actual Black Blade it will be interesting.
you think 16 isn't enough Int? You're probably right, I need to invest more...
Yeah....I always got the feeling this AP was skill-heavy.
Hence why my character has a decent (if not great) Int for a summoner.
Aye. I'm a Martial and have 16 Int. That said, my Grit is Int-Based via Archetype.
So yeah, plenty of people would be interested in Int-Items once anything comes up. Maybe *hint, hint* we'll get to to aquire a set of items as a reward for a story arc or something(say, when our WBL progressed far enough).
(I like random drops as much as anybody, but I feel in pbp it's sometimes a bit tedious to try and get what you need in-game. (Selling stuff, then looking around on the market or trying contacts to find someone that could ask in the next city or a artificer that could possible enchant what is needed for this and that price and until that date...etcetcetc...it's quickly done at the table but takes considerable time and effort in a post-based game.) So sometimes streamlining that can be helpful(and prevent lenghts discussions over who is best suited and most in need of an item that several players find useful. Obviously I'd let actual casters get Int-Stuff first, but...))
bah, Int 11 is fine! :)
Since I came into the game late, I'm not sure about the following, but if DM Critic allows crafting, I'll be happy to take the feats and do so.
Crafting is allowed during downtime
As we start coming into more gold, I wouldn't mind commissioning stuff.
I also have NO idea what type of Tech items will drop too.
I've considered taking the Technomancer Prestige class eventually for Keldor...maybe.
I am waiting to see how he develops for a while.
Hehe, no worries/need to convince me to rest ^_^
I interpreted the Android constructed traits immunity to sleep effects as well as fatigue and exhaustion as androids eat/breathe, but do not sleep. ("Souls" is the thing that distinguishes them from golems or other constructs - and constructs do not sleep/eat/breathe. I figured 2 out of 3 was distinguishing enough ;) - plus with an immunity to the main penalty of sleep deprivation she could technically operate near peak potential for undefined periods of time...at most getting a -3 penalty on checks(though not on saving throws against sleep, because immune))
So, the concept of 'rest' for Basil is doing some monotonous or simple task(like cleaning the workshop, nothing 'productive' though for balance reasons), so she just wants to keep going and doing more interesting things.
As a player, I would welcome a change to get outside and craft some more ammunition - but we do lack the funds for that I'm afraid. :(
Just as an heads-up(for all my games): In less than 24 hours from now, my second child will be born.
I took a one-month leave from work to stay at home, so chances are I will have opportunities to post.
But between bonding with the little one and keeping the bigger one entertained, my posting patterns MAY be erratic at times, which is why I feel it's fair to inform fellow players(and GM's).
Only the faster-moving games will find a need to bot me, I hope, but if I am responsible for delay, do move on.
Congrats! Enjoy the time. My little, almost 5 month old, little one has been amazing.
congrats! and best of luck!
Smart! Take the time. Bonding is important in the first couple of months.
So...Congrats!
My 4 year old son's Birthday is the 23rd. I doubt you'll get that far obviously. Brings back memories however.
;)
Congrats Basil!
Moving this to Discussion.
I am also not sure how much we are supposed to know. This early part of the game I have to avoid some metagaming, because I have run it before. I did it for my cousins, so I was VERY loose with the rules and skipped plenty of story, so I feel comfortable playing ignorate.
That being said. I do worry I "know" too much.. Yes, I knew those cards are keycards for the doors.. But I also felt like we had no real way to piece it together from the DM. No attack on DM Default at all, but the idea that each card has a color and each door has a color code too. I don't know if that ever became apparent. So I might have slipped up and rushed us into it a bit.
As for knowing what ever tech item is, I am assuming ignorance until I have skills to actually learn what they are. But this type of game is even harder (another layer of complexity having tech) in a Play by Post game, let alone a pretty slow game.
I am 100% willing to go with the consensus about what we know. Sorry if Harg overstepped a bit. I think he is currently excited to push buttons and try things. Its all new to him, and it hasn't bit him in the butt yet.
Just to clarify: It was not meant as an attack in any way :)
However we want to handle it, I can go along - I just think we should be on the same page, overall.
As you say, some middle ground between streamlining and naive excitement sounds good. Too much naivity and we'll get stuck, too much streamlining and the special flavor of the AP is lost - or that's my view.
So if we assume we know some basics, thats all good. I'll just need to know. Basil is a Android herself. She uses a firearm. She has Numerian Archeologist Trait. She has an Archetype boosting her Knowledge(Engineering). At Level 5, she will pick up Technologist.
If we're doing "we know some basics" then it makes little sense that she's completely clueless about the things we encounter :)
So I'd have to adjust my own approach to things, as well - that kind of thing.
Agreed. I would love to hear what the DM's expectations. I am down for it either way, but I wan't to be all on the same page.
:-)
Dirissa's background is pretty lacking in the technology realm. I'm more or less assuming she'll continue to explain things as 'magic' because that's her paradigm. I mean, she is a barbarian after all :)
That being said, I'm cool with whatever/however everyone else wants to play.
This is my third time trying to play through this adventure (Previous: 1 IRL and 1 in PbP.) Every time it's been interesting and fun, but we did not complete things beyond the first adventure. I'm hoping to make it through the entire AP this time, with your guys help of course!
So...I feel it comes down to your character's level of familiarity of 'Technology' and your knowledge of the history of Numeria.
Those with the Knowledge 'History' skill and the Technology Feat (I think that's what it is called) can identify and explain technology easily enough and where it comes from...especially if they make skill rolls on the harder stuff.
My character here has a passing familiarity with technology because of his correspondence with the wizard in Torch (hence the trait giving me 'effective' technology knowledge with my engineering rolls, but it is NO complete substitute for the Technology Feat in my opinion. I try to role-play that up if I can.
In the end...We need to hear what the GM says on this of course, otherwise I can go with the consensus as the group demands.
=)
So quick note on what the rules are for dealing with technology, per the technology guide:
In order to make trained checks on things, you have to have the technologist feat. There is some argument as to whether bardic knowledge applies as a get around for this, but that's a DM judgement call.
As far as Kell's knowledge goes, here are my thoughts on the matter:
I can speak Androffen, but I don't have the technologist feat, so Kell would know words like what I have used, but he wouldn't know how they would work. It would be like knowing the English language as spoken by Americans but having never seen the Internet before. You would know what things are called, because those words exist and you had to learn a little bit of context for them, but you wouldn't know how to operate a computer or even how they worked.
I'm trying to balance that out and obviously sometimes I succeed better than others.
Is everyone all right then? This is human person who acts as DM, but is not representing DM here.
If anyone has concerns, you can always message me privately. Because if I see an argument with insults breaking out I'm going to have to shutter the game.
But it seems like everyone is mostly on the same page, so I hope most if not all issues were addressed.
I know I am doing good. As far as I can tell we are all good, we just want to know (probably straight from you, DM) what level of knowledge we should have.
Could you give us a final word? As far as I can tell, we can all will be up for whatever you say.
As an example, did it make sense for me to make the jump that it was a key card for the doors?
I think Basil put it best
"As you say, some middle ground between streamlining and naive excitement sounds good. Too much naivity and we'll get stuck, too much streamlining and the special flavor of the AP is lost - or that's my view."
Add to this the different levels of tech familiarity that each character possesses and its easy to go between the two extremes.
Personally, I am a fan pacing and keeping a good pace. As someone who has been chronically terrible when it comes to maintaining a consistent posting schedule, I believe good pace is healthy for a good PbP.
However, I also believe your characters need to earn certain pieces of knowledge that comes with time and familiarity. Perhaps those familiar with tech can extrapolate certain uses, and Kell's use of his Androffan language was a believable way to introduce common terms without having to go "the strange three dimensional light map" over and over.
So here's what I propose.
Those with the technologist feat will have the most knowledge when dealing with technology, as it even states so in the feat. Androffan language can be used to help introduce key terminology, and I'll do my best to provide those instances.
You all have these little seedlings of tech that seem so amazing, and this AP will show you that there is so, so much more.
Try to strike that middle ground, perhaps a bit more naive in this beginning section, but definitely moving towards familiarity as we continue on.
Okay, I'll start doing a lot more of "I think I know what this is called! it's a..." "Widget. Yes, I believe that is the technical term."
I'm on board!
=)
Excellent, thank you.
Also, for the record, I believe we were nowhere near an argument with insults ^_^
So no good threatening shutting down stuff, we were just having a very civil discussion and hoped for input, which you gratiously provided. All good.
groovy
Update tomorrow. Lost track of time.
Hey guys!
I don't know if any of you are interested in this kind of stuff...
But my brother just started his new Kickstarter today for his Knife and Sword forge:
But my brother just started his new Kickstarter today for his Knife and Sword forge:
whoa, nice blades
Wow, guys sorry. I wasn't getting any notification about the thread updating, so I assumed it was semi on hiatus or something. I'll get a post up tomorrow.
@Dirissa: I'll check if using the borrow bow makes sense(with penalties/damage) and come back to you on that :) Had no time right now.
But thanks, offer is appreciated!
quick heads up- computer problems may prevent me from posting as regular as normal for a few days. apologies for issues. bot me as needed. I will return!