Gods Of The Arena- Rise Of The Nightingale Blades (Inactive)

Game Master DM Heterocephalus

yes

Note I can heal. Also DM you keep shifting the rules around I will need to just remake a brand new guy since this is a entirely different game then when I made my character xD

No problem, sorry about that now in the phase of beta testing.

TO ALL SLAVES:

You may adjust your character sheet until the first posting in combat. So feel free to do it. The combat post will not be out until at least another 9 hours thereabout.

How much can we change our character sheets? IE i'm thinking of taking a level of Cleric.

ok xem help me out how does one have such a high perform skill?

I can't come up with the numbers.

the reason I ask is in case I missed something on my sheet.

EDIT: nevermind I found my error on my sheet forgot the +5 for persona

Hmmm one level of another class is fine. Not both though. Also to be fair your opponents will most likely be martial in nature too with no abilities for divine and arcane magic.

Soooo.... they'll also have terrible will saves?

I say again, magicians would be GODLY gladiators.

Limiting spellcasting classes to two levels basically ensures they will suck. A one level dip in cleric for emergency channeling and domain powers would be decent I guess. As would a level of Sorc (for MA and Shield) or a level of Arcane Duelist (for the Arcane Strike feat, and CLW). I'm not gonna change Ariella though.

No Magicians.

For Gestalt i thought about it.

Have any of you seen Spartacus Vanishing, shooting fireballs from his arse???!!

You will level as Gladiator but you may take the BAB, Will Save, Ref, Fort of another class.

NO new spells may be learn though class abilities can be obtained. EG: Bardic performance, Channel energy, Extracts etc This means there is not much point to go sorcerer or wizard.

"NO new spells may be learn though class abilities can be obtained. EG: Bardic performance, Channel energy, Extracts etc This means there is not much point to go sorcerer or wizard."

So no spellcasting at all? Or just no learning new spells after the first two levels?

That's a huge change from the rules you let people make their characters with. They're probably not gonna be too happy.

i want sneak attack and ninja tricks (even if i stay away from some of the more ridiculous ones)

I Mean no more learning of New spells. what you started out with at 2 levels is what you get.

Yes since sneak attack is class ability you can get it along with the ninja tricks.

The above is with regards if you want to pursue the Gestalt Route. And only classes that you started out with can be Gestalt. You may choose Gestalt as a favored class if you want.

To qualify, I did mention during Character creation that only 2 levels of former life and then 3 levels of the main class gladiator.

Gestalt was an idea later introduced.

Due to the changes in the Persona, I understand changes and tweaks maybe required thus I allow the changes now. Also I understand that potions may not be used during the arena (Due to Thematic purpose) is not clearly communicated which then again require some class change.

Thus now that I agreed on Gestalt, the last thing I want is a PC to go max arcane and start casting spell in the arena (Which then again due to Thematic Purpose). However, cantrips etc low level spells to me is still acceptable thus I state that no new spells may be learned but class abilities can be picked up which still make Cleric class very attractive.

Like I say, i am catering to most of your wants and needs by being flexible but still I want to maintain the integrity of the idea of the theme when first created.

ok xem help me out how does one have such a high perform skill?

I can't come up with the numbers.

the reason I ask is in case I missed something on my sheet.

EDIT: nevermind I found my error on my sheet forgot the +5 for persona

Yup Persona +5 is huge.

Hmm okay I am currently looking at taking one level of Evangelist Cleric with the Healing (Restoration) domain. Evangelist basically means I get bard song in return for giving up channel and a second domain. Given my poor wis and cha scores I think its a fair trade. Thoughts?

"NO new spells may be learn though class abilities can be obtained. EG: Bardic performance, Channel energy, Extracts etc This means there is not much point to go sorcerer or wizard."

So no spellcasting at all? Or just no learning new spells after the first two levels?

That's a huge change from the rules you let people make their characters with. They're probably not gonna be too happy.

This is why I said I might just make a whole new character as this vision of the game has evolved into something else entirely from the original rules. Basically it seems the DM wants a martial only group.

Hmm okay I am currently looking at taking one level of Evangelist Cleric with the Healing (Restoration) domain. Evangelist basically means I get bard song in return for giving up channel and a second domain. Given my poor wis and cha scores I think its a fair trade. Thoughts?

As long as within my restrictions, 2 levels of caster max. Any Gestalt thereafter cannot learn new spells but you can continue to cast what you know.

Ariella Moiraine wrote:

"NO new spells may be learn though class abilities can be obtained. EG: Bardic performance, Channel energy, Extracts etc This means there is not much point to go sorcerer or wizard."

So no spellcasting at all? Or just no learning new spells after the first two levels?

That's a huge change from the rules you let people make their characters with. They're probably not gonna be too happy.

This is why I said I might just make a whole new character as this vision of the game has evolved into something else entirely from the original rules. Basically it seems the DM wants a martial only group.

Xem to be fair in the first place, I never did promise Gestalt class. it was an idea brought up by Teriden. My original intention was just 2 levels of former life and then all classes gladiator.

Of course I was not explicit during the recruitment process so apologies.

So with the introduction of Gestalt, probably Treiden, Garris and Xem you might wanna look into your feats again as now unarmed attacks can be increased due to class abilities.

If gestalt is happening I will regretfully bow out now with no disrespect intended to DM.

Question- you said that increased levels won't get you more spells known. Will it give you more spells per day?

Ok I am confused on this Gestalt thing.

as fighter 2 / gladiator 3. are the gladiator levels gestalt with fighter? or just levels after the intial 3.

@Xem- May I know the reason for Gestalt happening and you wanting to bow out? If your argument was that "This is why I said I might just make a whole new character as this vision of the game has evolved into something else entirely from the original rules. Basically it seems the DM wants a martial only group. " It seems you are expecting that you may level your cleric and monk levels initially?

In that case then during the recruitment phase when you asked and i quote "Wait so we can't continue monk training? Well thats...sucky. Just requires a small change though of my favored class to gladiator." You would have been aware that my intention is no more monk and cleric levels except for gladiator class.

So by introducing Gestalt, i am catering to your need of wanting to level the abilities of cleric and monk unless you tell me you do not enjoy the idea of a Gestalt as it complicate matters.

Apologies, but i just want to be clear and understand your thinking.

Ok I am confused on this Gestalt thing.

as fighter 2 / gladiator 3. are the gladiator levels gestalt with fighter? or just levels after the intial 3.

Its just levels after the intital 3. that means on your next leveling process you can choose to take the BAB Fort Reflex Will of the gladiator class or fighter class which happens to be the same...

Link to Gestalt Class

And you gain the both abilities of fighter 3 and Gladiator 4.

A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. A 1st-level gestalt rogue/cleric, for example, gets sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, 1st-level cleric spells, and the ability to turn or rebuke undead. Class- and ability-based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid’s prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is.

A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics. A few caveats apply, however.

Question- you said that increased levels won't get you more spells known. Will it give you more spells per day?

Yes more spells to cast.

Alternatively, if Gestalt is too confusing then we can scrap it guys.

OR We then play normal multiclassing then BUT no New Spells learnt nevertheless.

Your call and lets take a vote fore we head to the first battle.

Option1: Play Gestalt. Only start from PC level 6 onwards. (It's slightly weird as one class is always behind but from what I see its the class abilities that you are after. Sneak attack; channel energy etc)

Option2: Continue normal multiclassing, can level your other class but cannot learn new spell.

Option3: No change. Current arrangement only leveling Gladiator levels from here on only is fine.

options 1 or 2 are fine with me.

i knew we were going into this with 3 levels of gladiator mandatory, but i dont recall seeing a part stating we would be going with gladiator from here on out with no more than 2 levels of any previous classes. i wouldn't have signed up for a game where all PCs were the exact same class for all but two of their levels.

but like i said, i am fine with 1 or 2, whichever the group chooses.

i slightly prefer the gestalt idea but if Xem wants to back out specifically due to hating gestalt or whatever, then i wont vote for it. i dont want anyone to be pushed into an idea they dont want.

gladiator is a pretty front-loaded class anyway, so when doing gestalt you will almost always get better stuff from another class after level 5 of gladiator or so. that also means however that it is a less confusing gestalt because there is so little to really add on top of whatever class you choose aside from gladiator. in my opinion that would best represent out gladiator training on top of our training in whatever martial class we were before. our wholly different fighting styles really should be represented by a class other than gladiator though (in my opinion)

i slightly prefer the gestalt idea but if Xem wants to back out specifically due to hating gestalt or whatever, then i wont vote for it. i dont want anyone to be pushed into an idea they dont want.

gladiator is a pretty front-loaded class anyway, so when doing gestalt you will almost always get better stuff from another class after level 5 of gladiator or so. that also means however that it is a less confusing gestalt because there is so little to really add on top of whatever class you choose aside from gladiator. in my opinion that would best represent out gladiator training on top of our training in whatever martial class we were before. our wholly different fighting styles really should be represented by a class other than gladiator though (in my opinion)

I agree, Gladiator probably has the highest BAB anyway so any additional that is coming from this Gestalt is the ability to make your character more unique by incorporating Class abilities into it without the ability to learn new spells but you may cast more spells per day. Also for Gestalt level only 2 class is allowed which one of it must be the gladiator class. No more additional class can be Gestalt besides those you have chosen.

Example: Xem levels and choose Gestalt Cleric/Gladiator. So he gains the best of BAB and the relevant saves, hit die of the 2 classes and the feats and abilities of both classes Cleric 2 and Glad 4. Assuming he levels again, he now chooses Gestalt Monk/Gladiator. So now he gets the abilities from both Monk 2 and Glad 5

My vote is normal leveling in gladiator or prestige class only.

My vote is normal leveling in gladiator or prestige class only.

Probably not prestige at this stage. Don't want to complicate a very complicated situation now.

Hmm I think i'll stick with fighter.

Just to be absolutely clear on this- if I Fighter gestalt, will I get bonus feats from Fighter?

Shld I or shld I not?? Any advice? Will it be OP?

Hmm I think i'll stick with fighter.

Just to be absolutely clear on this- if I Fighter gestalt, will I get bonus feats from Fighter?

Stick with fighter means Option 2??

rules as written fighter would get feats. if a rogue would get sneak attack, a fighter should get their bonus feats. that is the bread and butter of their class.

Option 1.

Alright yes they get the fighter feats.

What is this obsession with restricting class choice and making things all complex? Just say that it's illegal to use higher than level one spells in the arena by decree of the Gladiator's Guild. If the rule is broken, then an anti-magic field will spring up covering the entire arena as an immediate interrupt option. Then you can level in whatever class you want as normal, but won't be able to use high level spells in the arena. Xem, who's obviously going for the channel negative energy thing can have his way, and Chasik can do his thing. Everybody wins right?

If we do gestalt, of course we're going to be more powerful than normal characters, which means you have to make the enemies more powerful to challenge us. It's a dangerous game, because without extensively playtesting things it can quickly go from "more powerful" to too powerful and TPK land. If I had to vote for above options I would choose 2.

Hmm Ariella does have a good point. In the first game I ran I told the characters to feel free to overpower their characters; one of them was even a drow noble. After they stormed through the first encounter I was too successful in finding something nasty and the second encounter ended in a TPK.

Then again, without spellcasting, perhaps we will be closer to 'normal' power levels than an entire party of gestalters, some with spellcasting classes?

My vote would be for normal leveling in gladiator. I knew we would only be leveling in gladiator. I took alchemist to pick up str boost, full attack of claw, claw, bite and sneak attack. It is the perfect martial dip class except for it having poor will like most martial classes. I would be fine with gestalt as I if I'm reading things correctly would pick up more sneak attack, and my mutagen could change I would get discoveries but never any highter level spells? Correct? I'm fine with that if thats what other want. I love the idea of a martial game. I have always wanted to do Gladiator since I first saw the movie or a Arthirian Knights type of game with very low magic. I requested a bunch of gimiky stuff in my want list but now knowing we want the combats to be more pure I can let those go and make up some new wants lets not forget the DM has devoted a lot of his time to this and its his vision. I say keep up the good work and thanks. I have enjoyed this very much so far and look forward to the fights :)

Ok guys thanks for all your input. Indeed what I am looking for is a unique combat experience if I want to run a normal campaign I can run an AP if required. Some of the things that I want a PC to experience is that Death matters in this game. Where every blow that comes could be your last. Teamwork is crucial as healing is sparse and sometimes running and hiding is now an option. Somehow healing seems to negate that effect...is like playing counterstrike knowing if you died you just respawn or personally I like to play Diablo in Hardcore mode. This is Pathfinder Hardcore mode.

However, I understand the need to differentiate yourself against others and I respect that. As such I propose Option 2, you may level in any class including prestige as long as no spells higher than level 1 is cast. Some ideas I have since this is a risk reward game, I will include spell casting privileges to higher reputation levels.

Lastly, I am still learning to DM effectively as this is my 2nd DM game for only 3 weeks, but what I lack in experience I intend to make up with passion and commitment. For those that think that this game is not you have in mind do bow out now and I fully understand.

I do wish to proceed the 1st fight soon.

Jeeze... I should stop sleeping so I can keep up with this friggin' thread.

My thoughts:

If this is a vote, I'd stay Option 1.

Reminder to Americans: VOTE! It's the only illusion of power we have!

Option 2, eh? Sounds like fun.

One thought; you said how you would like this game to include teamwork. One good and suitable thing to help with that would be teamwork feats. As it is, I'm guessing most of us need everyone single one of our feats and can't let any go to waste.

How would you feel about giving each of us one or two bonus feats to be spent on teamwork feats? Possibly under some restriction so we don't get too overpowered. It would help give us a sense of fighting as a group rather than individuals.

Illusion being the key word there.

Option 2, eh? Sounds like fun.

One thought; you said how you would like this game to include teamwork. One good and suitable thing to help with that would be teamwork feats. As it is, I'm guessing most of us need everyone single one of our feats and can't let any go to waste.

How would you feel about giving each of us one or two bonus feats to be spent on teamwork feats? Possibly under some restriction so we don't get too overpowered. It would help give us a sense of fighting as a group rather than individuals.

It's a good idea, alright after the Novitus match the survivors will each get a teamwork feat to signify your graduation from slave to gladiator.

Illusion being the key word there.

Precisely.

Option 2 and a free teamwork feat sounds good to me! I'm liking this game, and getting fewer levels of bard is fine, I figured I'd be going mostly gladiator. Gestalting would get out of hand and complicated... So plain multiclassing with restrictions on what can/can't be done in the arena makes sense. After all, I feel like that's how it would actually be done: "Yes, the wizard can be made a gladiator, but no, we won't let him throw fireballs and chain lightning around... at least not right off the bat."

Although I think a few evocations could get the crowd roaring.

EDIT: speaking of, are we ever going to have "mock combats" in this game? Like, gladiators pretending to fight each other, but not actually dealing damage? Just a question that popped up in my head.

Yes it's known as Excerco. It will be introduced later when the plot thickens.