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This weekend I created a new 3.5 character and started playing him in a Pathfinder Society game. For anyone who doesn't know, Pathfinder Society is strictly Players Handbook only. I had previously created this character using the Beta rules and had to try to recreate him using 3.5. I had a couple of observations and would be pleased to hear if others have had similar (or different) experiences.
1. The extra hit points at 1st level in Pathfinder are awesome. It really sucks not having them in 3.5. Characters are MUCH more fragile and thus more timid. I prefer the racial HD, but any HP bump at first is appreciated.
2. I projected him forward a few levels, trying to figure out where I'd take him. Feats every other level in Pathfinder is so much better than every three levels in 3.5. Unless you're a fighter, you only get a handful of feats over your entire career in 3.5. Feats are fun. They add tricks and personality to your character. The more, the better.
3. Rogue tricks starting at early to mid levels are great. I look at my 3.5 character's next couple of levels and see lots of Sneak Attacks and Trap Sense, but that's about it. No choices to distinguish him from other rogues.
4. The elimination of cross-class skills and the flat +3 to class skills,plus the once-a-class-skill, always-a-class-skill rule makes multi-classing much more appealing. My character starts as a Fighter but will switch to Bard and then Rogue. The DM asked if I was crazy, who starts as a Fighter, then goes to skill-heavy classes later? I'm doing it because it fits with his story (young Taldan noble, teen years spent as a good-for-nothing rake, loves dueling, parents send him to bardic college to clean him up, he drops out and becomes a rogue), but the DM is totally right, I'll NEVER be able to make up all the skill points I lost with Fighter as my 1st level. My Rogue will either always be about 3 skill ranks behind other Rogues or have to focus on a much narrower range of skills to max out. When I designed him using the Beta rules, he took ranks in non-class skills at first and didn't get the +3s, but as soon as he took the right classes, they "popped" and he caught up with his peers. Not entirely realistic but certainly makes me more likely to multi-class.
5. As a human I appreciate the +2 to any ability score in Pathfinder, and the way favored class now works.
At this point I've played several 3.5 Pathfinder Society adventures and a few Beta rules games. One thing I'm not satisfied with in either system is healing. I just don't like how reliant characters are on magical healing, and thus, how much time Clerics have to spend healing. In the last 3.5 game, I had to resort to magical healing 3 times just to finish the adventure - 1 potion of Cure Light Wounds, 1 scroll and 1 spell of the same. It just felt video-gamy with little bottles that refill your Life-meter. The Beta games were pretty much the same, with the Cleric dropping healing bombs a couple of times to save our butts. I'd really like to see a mechanic in Pathfinder like Second Wind in 4E that recognizes that HP aren't just a measure of wounds and physical damage. Hit points represent the ability to withstand physical damage, plus dodginess, stamina, energy, mojo, luck, karma, focus, etc., all of which get whittled away during combat. If players had a way of withdrawing from combat or maybe just going to total defense for a round to catch their breath and recoup some HP without needing to call the medic, players would require less magical healing and Clerics could do something other than heal. Let players quickly regain a few HP after every combat and see how much longer they can go without needing to "Life Up."
Anyway, just a few observations.
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ne thing I'm not satisfied with in either system is healing. I just don't like how reliant characters are on magical healing, and thus, how much time Clerics have to spend healing. In the last 3.5 game, I had to resort to magical healing 3 times just to finish the adventure - 1 potion of Cure Light Wounds, 1 scroll and 1 spell of the same. It just felt video-gamy with little bottles that refill your Life-meter. The Beta games were pretty much the same, with the Cleric dropping healing bombs a couple of times to save our butts. I'd really like to see a mechanic in Pathfinder like Second Wind in 4E that recognizes that HP aren't just a measure of wounds and physical damage.
Check out Reserve Points.
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I'd personally like to see Pathfinder use reserve points. It's my favorite compromise system between all of the magical healing in 3E and the poof-I'm-better healing in 4E.
That said, I'd also like to see healing magic non-randomized. Something like:
cure light wounds -- Heals target's Con bonus, plus 1 per caster level up to 5, minimum 2 HP.
cure moderate wounds -- Heals target's Con bonus x 3, plus 1 per caster level up to 10, minimum 6 HP.
cure serious wounds -- Heals target's Con bonus x5, plus 1 per caster level up to 15, minimum 10 HP.
cure critical wounds -- Heals target's Con bonus x7, plus 1 per caster level up to 20, minimum 14 HP.
I'd also like to see the name changed from "cure," but that'll never happen.
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<a lot of great stuff>
Awesome analysis!
My group would agree whole heartedly - why just the other night a giant Croc bit the first level druid for 10 pts of damage and he still had few hit points to spare. How many 3.5 druids can say that?!? The rogue took 12 pts of damage in the same combat.
The extra hit points are pretty sweet in that they have far more impact at lower levels where they are needed.
I also appreciate your point about taking a first level in fighter, knowing that bard is in the future. Anything that encourages roleplaying over character optimization is a huge win in my book.
I like random healing - it comes from divine sources. Sometimes the powers that be give and sometimes they take away :)
That said I am looking into using Monte's Grace & Health system to gain some faster between-encounter healing.
...Feats every other level in Pathfinder is so much better than every three levels in 3.5...
Dumb question: do you know what page that is on in the Pathfinder Beta?
Yeah, the table with the feat progression is in a strange place. I had a lot of trouble finding it as well. Also, as far as I can tell, this is the only place that the increased number of feats is mentioned.
I agree with most of what you said. However I leave my hp as they are. I like frail 1st level pc's. Also reserve points are cool and all but far to much for me.
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Check out Reserve Points.
Wow, that's cool. I've never seen that before. What's the original source, Unearthed Arcana? Kinda' like halfway between regular hit points and a Wound/Vitality system. I'd be totally happy to see that as an optional rule in Pathfinder (although I could certainly make it a rule in my games). If I were to fiddle with it, I might make reserve points = 1/2 hit points, though, so you couldn't get a full heal without real rest or divine magic.
Where are the rules for starting hit points? I thought they were the same as in 3.5.
Where are the rules for starting hit points? I thought they were the same as in 3.5.
There are various alternatives for a flat bonus of some kind at level 1.
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I like reserve points but it adds yet another level of book keeping to the game. Not that it adds so much as to be unusable.
Personally, and I know this will never make it into the game, I would like to see HP represent Non Lethal damage and CON represent Lethal damage. So in effect most weapon damage is turned away to scratches and bruises and lesser cuts and punctures, but crits do REAL damage directly to the CON. Run out of HP and damage goes direct to CON. Then you can have Reserve Points used to refresh those Non Lethal wounds and it makes a tiny bit more sense, a second wind of sorts.
But back on topic, I think the analysis is right on target.
In my games I have taken to using Action points of the Eberron/d20 modern variety, that allow the character to burnan ap to gain an extra action (no full round though, and only 1 per round), to gain bonus in a d20 roll, OR recover hp in place of the bonus. They also can be used to instantly stabalize aswell. As I am using currently the system of 5+1/2 char level, every time they level it gives them a few open Outs that adds to resilience and the like. I also use the con score to hp at 1st level as presented as an option in the PFRPG Beta and in 4th ed D&D, so I am finding that my players are hardcore enough to go through a lot more and even low levels are crazy. I've been toying with being able to burn a few Ap to regain the use of a class ability such as stunning fist, or used spellslot or some such, but haven't decided what would be fair as a cost and whether it should be seperate per class.
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I like reserve points but it adds yet another level of book keeping to the game. Not that it adds so much as to be unusable.
Personally, and I know this will never make it into the game, I would like to see HP represent Non Lethal damage and CON represent Lethal damage. So in effect most weapon damage is turned away to scratches and bruises and lesser cuts and punctures, but crits do REAL damage directly to the CON. Run out of HP and damage goes direct to CON. Then you can have Reserve Points used to refresh those Non Lethal wounds and it makes a tiny bit more sense, a second wind of sorts.
But back on topic, I think the analysis is right on target.
Are you nuts? That would mean any critical hit could kill the characters even at higher levels. Then monsters also have multiple attacks any of which could critical.
Are you nuts? That would mean any critical hit could kill the characters even at higher levels. Then monsters also have multiple attacks any of which could critical.I like reserve points but it adds yet another level of book keeping to the game. Not that it adds so much as to be unusable.
Personally, and I know this will never make it into the game, I would like to see HP represent Non Lethal damage and CON represent Lethal damage. So in effect most weapon damage is turned away to scratches and bruises and lesser cuts and punctures, but crits do REAL damage directly to the CON. Run out of HP and damage goes direct to CON. Then you can have Reserve Points used to refresh those Non Lethal wounds and it makes a tiny bit more sense, a second wind of sorts.
But back on topic, I think the analysis is right on target.
Really thats all in how much a crit does. if by crit em ment plane weapon damage and nothing else that would be ok. 15-20 CRITS would brake such a system however
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Really thats all in how much a crit does. if by crit em ment plane weapon damage and nothing else that would be ok. 15-20 CRITS would brake such a system howeverAre you nuts? That would mean any critical hit could kill the characters even at higher levels. Then monsters also have multiple attacks any of which could critical.I like reserve points but it adds yet another level of book keeping to the game. Not that it adds so much as to be unusable.
Personally, and I know this will never make it into the game, I would like to see HP represent Non Lethal damage and CON represent Lethal damage. So in effect most weapon damage is turned away to scratches and bruises and lesser cuts and punctures, but crits do REAL damage directly to the CON. Run out of HP and damage goes direct to CON. Then you can have Reserve Points used to refresh those Non Lethal wounds and it makes a tiny bit more sense, a second wind of sorts.
But back on topic, I think the analysis is right on target.
Look up the way Unearthed Arcana does Crits using this system. Weapons do not get crit modifiers if your REAL HP is your CON. So when you roll a crit with a battleaxe you just roll regular damage and take it from your CON score instead. In essence it is Vitality Points from Unearthed Arcana. I really like the Vitality Points system with som eminor tweaking.
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Post Monster ate my next post!
I also like the Injury System
You use Fort Saves to determine damage. It can get cumbersome though in use. I can see a better system being created using the 4E Fort Target Number and Injury System. Some tweaking would make a really cool system.
Also I would add several Conditions to add variety to make a difference between say two hits and eight hits more important than just a few more minuses to the Fort Save.
I will say that I have used the Vitality/Wound system for a few campaigns I've fun for D&D (not counting the Star Wars stuff I've run or played in)...
For D&D, while I like the system, it presents too many problems with making high-level combat that much deadlier. Especially when you start dealing with monsters. At low levels that Ogre with 29 Hp will have 15 Wounds as well. If no criticals are scored in the combat, it effectively makes an Ogre about 1.5x as tough. Not much of an issue, but something to consider right? Especially with characters also being boosted a bit too.
The problem is dealing with Monsters of size Huge or larger. Huge creatures get Wounds x2, Gargantuan x4, Colossal x8.
A Great Wyrm Red Dragon then has (using the base Monster Manual version):
660 hp as usual AND
248 Wounds.
Again...its the 1.5x scaling....but, think how much harder this makes it to score a telling critical against a larger creature? More realistic? Yeah...it makes things tough though.
I did find one other variant that does make this system more viable is using Armor as Damage Reduction. SWd20 does this as well. Of course to use Armor as DR, you almost have to do Class Defense bonuses for AC. It was this escalating scale of additional systems that made me decide not to use these variant, regardless of how much I like them.
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I'd personally like to see Pathfinder use reserve points. It's my favorite compromise system between all of the magical healing in 3E and the poof-I'm-better healing in 4E.
That said, I'd also like to see healing magic non-randomized. Something like:
cure light wounds -- Heals target's Con bonus, plus 1 per caster level up to 5, minimum 2 HP.
cure moderate wounds -- Heals target's Con bonus x 3, plus 1 per caster level up to 10, minimum 6 HP.
cure serious wounds -- Heals target's Con bonus x5, plus 1 per caster level up to 15, minimum 10 HP.
cure critical wounds -- Heals target's Con bonus x7, plus 1 per caster level up to 20, minimum 14 HP.I'd also like to see the name changed from "cure," but that'll never happen.
Those maximums seem awful low, or are they just for the level based plus?
Yup. And I believe it is OGL.Check out Reserve Points.What's the original source, Unearthed Arcana?
Would anyone know if this applies to NPCs and monsters as well. If so it could be very neat for the bad guy to come back if not killed and explain JASON!
rustle
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Gal: I beleive he was meaning that for the level based plus yes.
Russell: I think it was meant just for PCs. But yes, it would make for an interesting mechanic for the villians. The PCs don't quite finish him and he comes back for more, or they put the monster down and go to make the escape just to have him come after them again.
This weekend I created a new 3.5 character and started playing him in a Pathfinder Society game. For anyone who doesn't know, Pathfinder Society is strictly Players Handbook only. I had previously created this character using the Beta rules and had to try to recreate him using 3.5. I had a couple of observations and would be pleased to hear if others have had similar (or different) experiences.
1. The extra hit points at 1st level in Pathfinder are awesome. It really sucks not having them in 3.5. Characters are MUCH more fragile and thus more timid. I prefer the racial HD, but any HP bump at first is appreciated.
2. I projected him forward a few levels, trying to figure out where I'd take him. Feats every other level in Pathfinder is so much better than every three levels in 3.5. Unless you're a fighter, you only get a handful of feats over your entire career in 3.5. Feats are fun. They add tricks and personality to your character. The more, the better.
3. Rogue tricks starting at early to mid levels are great. I look at my 3.5 character's next couple of levels and see lots of Sneak Attacks and Trap Sense, but that's about it. No choices to distinguish him from other rogues.
4. The elimination of cross-class skills and the flat +3 to class skills,plus the once-a-class-skill, always-a-class-skill rule makes multi-classing much more appealing. My character starts as a Fighter but will switch to Bard and then Rogue. The DM asked if I was crazy, who starts as a Fighter, then goes to skill-heavy classes later? I'm doing it because it fits with his story (young Taldan noble, teen years spent as a good-for-nothing rake, loves dueling, parents send him to bardic college to clean him up, he drops out and becomes a rogue), but the DM is totally right, I'll NEVER be able to make up all the skill points I lost with Fighter as my 1st level. My Rogue will either always be about 3 skill ranks behind other Rogues or have to focus on a much narrower range of skills to max out. When...
I used to play a game called earthdawn, where the characters took "recoveries" in which they rolled their own "healing" they only had so many "recoveries" per day based on their toughness.
The biggest problem with Reserve Points, in my experience, is that players find it rather silly that their PCs take a minute or two to just "sit it out" in the middle of a dungeon adventure to regain a few HP. And it escalates at higher levels. To fix this, I could see reducing the amount of rest a PC needs to regain HP with reserve points.
In my last game, I used Action Points instead, with a couple of additional modifiers that allowed them to heal themselves, though not as well as the Healer PC could. It was a nice little boost that I may stick with, but I am a big fan of CON score at first level bonus HP as the primary fix for low HP at low levels. I don't particularly like the racial one, because it doubly benefits races with CON bonuses and doubly disadvantages races with CON penalties.
I agree with most of what you said. However I leave my hp as they are. I like frail 1st level pc's. Also reserve points are cool and all but far to much for me.
Agreed - the bonus hp are a good option for campaigns, but I'm glad they are not the starting point. Reserve points are interesting - a good option.
I really agree with the OP on feats.
When I first heard about the increased rate I thought it was just too much, until I realized it only adds one additional feat every 6 levels, and doesn't impact the game at all until 5th level. It makes leveling much more consistent, and feats far less... painful to choose, knowing that you'll get another the level after next.
Also makes 5th level monster cool for Wizards :)
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The biggest problem with Reserve Points, in my experience, is that players find it rather silly that their PCs take a minute or two to just "sit it out" in the middle of a dungeon adventure to regain a few HP.
I'd agree if HP were purely a measure of physical health. But they aren't. HP are an abstraction that represent the ability to withstand physical damage, plus dodginess, stamina, energy, mojo, luck, karma, focus, etc., all of which get whittled away during combat, and most of which could be regained quickly with a few minutes of rest or refocusing. Any quick-healing system - reserve points, action points, second wind - builds on the idea that PCs are regaining as much of the non-physical aspect of HP as they are the physical. Even Heal checks - dressing a wound doesn't "heal" it right away but it keeps it from being as much of a hindrance.
The biggest problem with Reserve Points, in my experience, is that players find it rather silly that their PCs take a minute or two to just "sit it out" in the middle of a dungeon adventure to regain a few HP.I'd agree if HP were purely a measure of physical health. But they aren't. HP are an abstraction that represent the ability to withstand physical damage, plus dodginess, stamina, energy, mojo, luck, karma, focus, etc., all of which get whittled away during combat, and most of which could be regained quickly with a few minutes of rest or refocusing. Any quick-healing system - reserve points, action points, second wind - builds on the idea that PCs are regaining as much of the non-physical aspect of HP as they are the physical. Even Heal checks - dressing a wound doesn't "heal" it right away but it keeps it from being as much of a hindrance.
It's not that regaining HP by catching a second wind is the issue (it wasn't) - it's that the PCs just sit around for 2-3 minutes, regaining a few HP, in the middle of a dungeon full of bloodthirsty monsters. It breaks the pacing and makes you wonder exactly how they're able to catch such a breather.
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We used a Second Wind type mechanic that allowed a player, as a swift action, to restore one-quarter of his hit point total, once per encounter. No feat needed, and no over-reliance on the cleric to bail them out. My players liked the idea. Try it yourself though; mileage may vary.
As an aside, we used a system that tracked a "pseudo-condition" chart based on HP as well.
Any time your hit point total lowers by 25%, it reduces your combat effectiveness, much as encumbrance can affect a character. A character or creature at full hit points is assumed to be in a “normal” state, which represents one end of the condition track. Every time a character’s or a creature’s hit point total falls below the damage threshold (25% of the total hit points available), you move one step down the condition track. When a creature reaches 0 hit points, he is considered unconscious. A creature or character that falls below 0 hit points by an amount equal to his damage threshold is considered dead.
Condition Stage
Full Hit Points or lower = Normal; No penalties
75% Hit Points or lower = -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks.
50% Hit Points or lower= -2 penalty to Armor Class, -2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks.
25% Hit Points or lower = Move at half speed; -5 penalty to Armor Class, and -5 penalty on ability checks, attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks
0 Hit points or lower = Helpless (Unconscious)
Below -25% Hit Points = Dead
Removing Conditions
You can improve your condition by spending a swift action to use Second Wind (see below), to increase your hit points by 25%, or by resting for six consecutive hours.
Second Wind: You can improve your hit points by an amount equal to your damage threshold by using a swift action to use Second Wind. You can use Second Wind only once per encounter.
Resting: Resting for six consecutive, uninterrupted hours will restore a character to full hit points, returning you to a normal state.
2. I projected him forward a few levels, trying to figure out where I'd take him. Feats every other level in Pathfinder is so much better than every three levels in 3.5. Unless you're a fighter, you only get a handful of feats over your entire career in 3.5. Feats are fun. They add tricks and personality to your character. The more, the better.
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One thing I'm not satisfied with in either system is healing. I just don't like how reliant characters are on magical healing, and thus, how much time Clerics have to spend healing. In the last 3.5 game, I had to resort to magical healing 3 times just to finish the adventure - 1 potion of Cure Light Wounds, 1 scroll and 1 spell of the same. It just felt video-gamy with little bottles that refill your Life-meter.
While magical healing bears a striking resemblance to video game mechanics, they at least don't clash with suspension of disbelief. They work in a perfectly plausible way (which they also do in video games, of course). Magic can burn you to a crisp, magic can let you teleport across long distances in the blink of an eye, magic can turn you into a piglet and magic can also heal your wounds.
Feats OTOH, while definitely fun and cool, often do limit suspension of disbelief. There is no common sense in-game justification why one character can Power Attack or Spring Attack whenever he so chooses yet another one can't even try to do so (unless you rule they can try but immediately fail). These are not (or at least should not be) things you either can or can't do depending on training or other development of personal ability. They feel much more video gamey to me: abilities that break the rules in some way that can be unlocked by characters as they progress through the game.
So, I don't disagree at all with the number of feats characters can take being increased but I would have liked a rigorous vetting of the existing list (which, unfortunately but understandably, goes beyond the feasible scope of Pathfinder).
Feats OTOH, while definitely fun and cool, often do limit suspension of disbelief. There is no common sense in-game justification why one character can Power Attack or Spring Attack whenever he so chooses yet another one can't even try to do so (unless you rule they can try but immediately fail). These are not (or at least should not be) things you either can or can't do depending on training or other development of personal ability. They feel much more video gamey to me: abilities that break the rules in some way that can be unlocked by characters as they progress through the game.
So, I don't disagree at all with the number of feats characters can take being increased but I would have liked a rigorous vetting of the existing list (which, unfortunately but understandably, goes beyond the feasible scope of Pathfinder).
Thats silly, I CAN lift my wife over my head. She cant get me off the ground. Thats the difference in strength and size.
Lets say in game, Im half-orc with a 15 strength.
My wife is a halfling with a 10.
Would you think it is stupid that the halfling shouldn't even be able to try and lift the half-orc? of course you wouldnt. But the half-orc could use the halfing like a football (especially if he had an 18 strength)
This hold true for feats, lets take power attack, the fighter has trained specifically at high damage attacks, but the arent necessarily as accurate as they could be, so he might use this ability to mow down the lizard king, but trying to swat a fairy out of the way is with power attack isnt the best choice of abilities.
Similarly, a real world shaolin monk can smash his head through a wooden door and not feel a thing. I wouldnt even attempt to do that (unless perhaps I was quite drunk and even then I wouls stll fail)
Most feats represent extreme training or hieghtened ability at something.
If you buy the idea of magic and that doesnt bother you, why should feats? think of them as minor superpowers.
Batman throws his batline-thingy out and swings from a 20 story building, I wouldnt even try to do that.
Its a not the same as supermans flight (in this game you need a fly spell or wings for that which in that case is a major superpower) but its something us mere mortals just cant do.
On another note, magical healing in DnD isnt video-gamey. DnD has existed before there was the technology FOR video games, there for video game healing is DnD-y.
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So you're saying you use 4E Second Wind. And this over-reliance says to me that you have a group of "Leroy Jenkins!!!" who fail to keep their wits about them in combat and must use the Cleric as a living heal potion.
No at all.
We started using this system way before the 4E release, then converting this from Star Wars SAGA (since we anticipated that would be the model followed for 4E).
The idea was a way to simulate the exhaustion of losing HP in combat, and how that would affect your ability to fight and concentrate. Second Wind was based off of an old CCG Plot Twist card (kudos, if you recognize the game!) that healed an injury to your character. We experimented with using the Combat cards from the same system in place of dice, but decided it was not quite what we were looking for.
I like the idea that the Cleric is not the band-aid, that he can use his spells for other uses and the party doesn't rely on that healing magic. I actually reward a Cleric's player with a story XP award (a hold-over from 2nd Edition) for using his spells as appropriate to his faith and for converting others to his faith. A Cleric that just heals his party isn't really helping spread his faith; on the other hand, a cleric of a god of mercy that uses his healing on injured enemies after they have been defeated is.
Its my opinion the orignal cleric was designed for one purpose, limited heals per day. After he was out he could still fight.
The basic version of the cleric was so bland he was well, basic.
I dont even remember that many spells for him at all, and there certainly werent any summoning spells.
It was along the lines of heals, locate traps,bless,command,hold, and I think charm. and there was a speak with dead i beleive.
Oh and he could turn undead.
People wanted to make the cleric more, because, those who played clerics were frustrated with the medic! medic!
So largely the others ruined the clerics fun by swallowing up his actions to heal them for being fool hardy and reckless, so unless ther was a gob on undead, the cleric didnt get to do anything else.
Later versions Of DnD sought to "solve" this problem by giving them more spells.
Well what did people do with the more spell slots? Load up on heals.
So game desingers came up with other ways to heal (potions, wnads and what not) and then NO one wanted to play a cleric because after long they werent needed at all.
Now we have tried to fix the cleric (once again) by making him something other than a healer.
Clerics are adventurers like every other party member, they aren't missionaries, they adventure for the same reason the fighter would. Not necessarily to convert people to their faith.
"hmmm the lair of the troglodyte king, no prospects for converts down there, sorry team Im not going in!"
Clerics are adventurers with extra ordinary faith in a diety (a fighter can pray to the same god, but doesnt gain spells and power because of it)
Their Deity rewards their faithfullness with spells and granted abilities. He would be as good as a fighter in combat, if his praying and devotion didnt distract him from concentrating totally on that
This would be the same as the muslim kid on your soccer team, who prays twice a day and follows all his religion's rules, and is really good at soccer.
He could be even better at soccer if he didnt spend his time praying (more time to practice and play) but if he stopped praying he wouldnt get worse(in which case the cleric would get no new spells)
but it isnt the muslim kids purpose to convert others, hes just part of the team.
We had a chaplain in the army, he was part of our coheasive fighting unit. Never, did he spend any time trying to convert anyone. They are his personal beleifs (of course if someone wanted to talk to him, thats what he was therefor.
But back to clerics, they are adventurers that can heal,turn on dead and smash things over the head with a mace.
IF the cleric needs to heal everyone all the time, the DM should lighten up because his players are in too deep.
THEN the cleric could have some fun.
ne thing I'm not satisfied with in either system is healing. I just don't like how reliant characters are on magical healing, and thus, how much time Clerics have to spend healing. In the last 3.5 game, I had to resort to magical healing 3 times just to finish the adventure - 1 potion of Cure Light Wounds, 1 scroll and 1 spell of the same. It just felt video-gamy with little bottles that refill your Life-meter. The Beta games were pretty much the same, with the Cleric dropping healing bombs a couple of times to save our butts. I'd really like to see a mechanic in Pathfinder like Second Wind in 4E that recognizes that HP aren't just a measure of wounds and physical damage.Check out Reserve Points.
Dude... that's awesome! I'm going to start using that. Simple, nice. Less reliance on clerics. Although, like Mosaic mentioned, might make it equal to 1/2 HP.
Still, thank you very much!
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Condition Stage
Full Hit Points or lower = Normal; No penalties
75% Hit Points or lower = -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks.
50% Hit Points or lower= -2 penalty to Armor Class, -2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks.
25% Hit Points or lower = Move at half speed; -5 penalty to Armor Class, and -5 penalty on ability checks, attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks
0 Hit points or lower = Helpless (Unconscious)
Below -25% Hit Points = Dead
I might try 50% hit points = fatigued (as the condition). No run or charge, -2 Str and Dex ... which would translate to -1 attack, damage, AC, Reflex saves, and certain skill checks. Not as severe as yours, but I want to try to use existing rules - like fatigue - rather than inventing new ones.