Just your regular reminder to use the discussion thread for out-of-character discussion...
Don't I get an AoO for him drawing a weapon in melee?
Drawing a weapon generally doesn't provoke.
Util today I have been severely sleep deprived and have made very little sense when people talk to me. Logic has been hard. But sleep aids have fixed me. I have asked lots of ridiculous questions in the last week to a lot of people. Sorry and be lucky that was mild compared to some things.
Also Perry I have been shot! Get out here and help. Or at least patch me up.
"You were so brave!" she says to Balthus, cutting him off mid-sentence. "Why, they could have killed us in our slept if not for your warning! I couldn't possibly sleep now, could you?"
Moving back to his tent and stopping short at Anthuria's comment, Meditation might help you fall back asleep. Ducking into his tent and shoving Ursa out of his bed roll and begins getting ready to sleep.
AMUND! What are doing?! That was such an obvious set up for a pick-up line! :D
Haha Jetta! I was only referring to my photosynthesis ability (only need 2hr of sleep). Honest!
We believe you. ;)
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I was sleepy don't judge me! Lack of sleep does weird things to me. Like make me miss the opportunity to offer to cuddle, wear her out so she sleeps better, share my tent since the cold might be keeping her awake, or say she might feel safer sleeping next to someone, or needing help getting my 'armor' off. So am I going back to flirting with Anthuria? Cause I can do that ;)
Also Anthuria don't lie its the swarthyness.
I am taking a big exam next Friday. I'll try to post here and there, but please excuse my diminished presence over the next 8 days.
Good luck!
Hmm. I'm really tempted to apply, but I think I've already promised to play though that adventure with one of my real-life groups. :P
Hmm. I'm really tempted to apply, but I think I've already promised to play though that adventure with one of my real-life groups. :P
It's a good mini-campaign with the themes of starting a new colony, jungle/coastal/island setting, and wilderness exploration.
And you could be playing with our illustrious GM.
And so far the only person that has applied for spot wants to play a naked aquatic elven chic. No, it's not our illustrious GM. :)
Game on!
And so far the only person that has applied for spot wants to play a naked aquatic elven chic. No, it's not our illustrious GM. :)
...that you know of. ;)
And you could be playing with our illustrious GM.
Well, that's a definite plus. Hmm, I'll see if I can come up with a cool concept. Maybe a Bonuwat pirate?
How does that game differ from this one?
Er... I'm not sure if 'that game' refers to the game I'm about to run (Ire of the Storm).
if so, you're right in that there are some similarities but the setting (jungle/coastal island) is different.
Also,there's more 'exploration' (similar to Kingmaker) of which there's little here.
Lastly, it is a nascent town as opposed to a 'fort'.
If the campaign takes off, I would think of using some sort of 'downtime' rules to make the PCs more invested in the growth of the town (and its associated issues).
If you were asking something else then please elaborate.
Questions?
Game on!
The ways of old have many eggs sustained,
And by these truths Turessk has long remained
In hallowed fen and ancient hearth and home
for time untold - why grasp and reach and roam?
I didn't mean to write it in iambic pentameter - I didn't even realize until halfway through that my brain went automatically to iambic pentameter. Apparently someone's read a little too much Shakespeare. :/
Apparently someone's read a little too much Shakespeare. :/
One can never read too much Shakespeare. :P
I approve of the poetry :D And I am sorry for the lack of posting work and the heat have left me with little energy. And this is a holiday so I have been cleaning all weekend.
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I understand the tedium of naval-gazing while else negotiates, but it is not a good idea to begin pledging anything before we have a clear picture of the negotiations and of what each party wants from another (as well as the parties' mutual history).
At this rate, each of us is promising something, contradicting one another (Anthuria saying the Vale will never be adapted to our needs while Percival says it's OK to do so), and making declarations the lizardfolk very much want from us to make without something in return (Balthus pledging alliance/Jetta giving her word that we don't want to expand/Amund clearly siding with the lizardfolk over the dwarves). It's too soon for any of that.
We should not promise anything related to foreign relations before we manage to meet with the dwarves and hear their side of the story. Surely the dwarves have legitimate grievances and shared interests as well, as I'm sure that GM Rennai won't make choosing between the two very easy.
Frankly, it seems too simple: decide to join the native lizardfolk against the culturally-insensitive invaders, or be meany-pants who steal and pillage.
Once we meet with the dwarves proper and convene with Tolgrith, we can then make decisions on who to aid and who to fight.
We clearly agreed that not one person was going to do all the talking if you recall. That is just not as fun especially when that conversation takes days to go over due to the medium in which we are playing. Actually it is not much fun in live play either. It is a game and the goal is still fun at the end of the day. While the answers we all gave are not the idea answers they all feel in character to me. Which is what matter more in my humble opinion. Instead of saying the correct thing but having it be dramatically out of character. If I were to have had it set up the way I the player would want the Dwarves and Lizardfolk would all be there. Everyone would submit to having their weapons taken way and they would have a separate conversation with us then all together. All in one day.
That is kind of the issue with negotiation. Either everyone talks and talks over each other or promises things not everyone is ok with. Or one person does it and the same thing happens.
I have not clearly sided with anyone but from what i know of the Dwarves they are kind of jerks. I am more sympathetic with the lizardfolk. That was build into Amunds character. He does not tolerate unnecessary cruelty. And the Dwarves goals seem to be just that. I desire peace between all three sides. We all said that actually. But I understand what you mean which is why I said if the ideal comes to pass this is what would happen. And that is the truth as Amund sees it.
And yes it is easy to want to side with the 'lizardfolk against the culturally-insensitive invaders.' They are the ostracized minority with not real backing and would be slaughtered. And because of what they are most people would not even care. The lizardfolk have the meager advantage that their meeting is first and that matter. Not much but it does matter. This will be in our minds walking into a meeting with the Dwarves. That crappy swamp that they want for their little tribe. That is all they seem to want, for people to let them live.
Yes Balthus is claiming friendship but it is clearly stated with to be contingent on Lizardfolk toeing the line as it were. They have to behave a certain way and then the woodsman will be on their side. The unspoken part of it that i got was he would be their foe if they did not meet this expectation. This fits what I believe Balthus's character to be. An old ranger. Worn a little by the world and knowing what he thinks is right. So long as the Lizardfolk keep their word he will.
Jetta's words are true. It is a lot easier to build a road around a swamp then to build and maintain a road though the swamp. All that water and muck is difficult to work with. By not chasing them off we would be acknowledging them as the inhabitants of the Vale. Technically that is what we are here to do. Again the Liazrdfolk have to toe a line and we will aid them is what was said. This is very much in line with who Jetta seems to be. Quick and to the point.
Anthuria's contribution is also inline with her character. Hope, a little naive, and honest. Nature cannot truly be tamed. It takes work, constant work. Road must be maintained and glens cleared for housing. Nature is always there waiting for a chance to take back over. Regardless the desire to co-habitat is stated and that was what we all agreed on.
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If I were to have had it set up the way I the player would want the Dwarves and Lizardfolk would all be there. Everyone would submit to having their weapons taken way and they would have a separate conversation with us then all together. All in one day.
That is the end-goal. We're conversing with the lizardfolk first, the dwarves next, and we will have representatives from both of them in Fort Thorn to resolve their differences.
If we pledge aid or show bias to any of them, the dwarves won't see us as a neutral party. Hence, we won't have the meeting. Even worse, if the negotiations go sour, the lizardfolk may exclaim, 'You promised us aid!', and then the whole meeting goes to the crapper.
Percival said he was a professional, and we agreed in-character to support him as spokesperson.
Trust him on this, be patient, and don't promise anything we might need to withdraw.
After all, what if the lizardfolk cannibalized dwarf travelers or traders? What if they enslaved dwarves and sacrificed them by ritual drowning?
What if they were the jerks?
We'll never know unless we remain neutral, see both sides, and resolve this with cool heads.
Kassmak asked us directly what we would be willing to do:
"These tall-wood-housse sstrong oness will be friendss of Turessk tribe? Will keep Turessk in counsselss, come to aid sscaled oness in need? Will keep otherss from taking and sspoiling what belongss to Turessks for seasons-without-count?"
So we answered, also prompted by the GM to contribute to the conversation. I'm sure they won't screw us over for that... :P
We agreed to let Perry lead the negotiations, but we also agreed that everyone would be able to hop in as needed. That's what we are doing. If you wanted all of us to behind your plan, you should have presented it to us before we came here, as I suggested. Now you'll need to settle for moderating our suggestions into your platform in whichever way you can. That, or call for a break in the negotiations and fill in the rest of us in-character.
Regardless, I think you may be overreacting a bit. So far, no one has said anything binding:
- Balthus pledged his personal aid, in what I presume is an effort to spark a sense of solidarity between humans and the lizardfolk.
- Jetta presented the idea that, rather than us "coming to their aid", we would fight against common enemies together (bugbears, dragons, etc.). A suggestion, in response to theirs.
- Anthuria merely promised what we've already agreed to with Oakbrow, to be responsible in our use of resources (maybe with some hyperbole, but her honesty might make us seem a bit more trustworthy as a whole).
- Amund promised that if there is to be an agreement, we would be able to keep our own from breaking our promises. Seems like sensible reassurance, promising nothing specific.
All that is to aid your already impressive Diplomacy roll, and with that you should be able to direct he conversation in whichever way you want.
As for the dwarves, we already know what they want: a small piece of the swamp to build a side road that connects to their tunnels, and a promise that the lizardfolk will leave them alone. We know they are willing to pay for that, as well. As I understand, this meeting is about making a temporary peace treaty to ensure that the road gets built on time. There is no real need to summon all representatives to the Fort or whatever, as long as the all sides agree to ceasing hostilities and cooperating in the road building project for the time being. Establishing formal alliances between all sides might be a longer process than what we have time for, and we need to at least make sure that the road is back to being built as those negotiations get started. We have other threats to deal with, as well.
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I don't have your faith--hence my apprehension.
If the lizardfolk had any experience in intrigue, they'd deduce that there is internal fracture and seeds of lost trust between us, and take advantage of us. Even if they don't, that's a loss for us.
So far, no one has said anything binding
That is only half-true. Promises have heavy diplomatic and political weight and will test our credibility too soon, especially in the below context.
Will keep Turessk in counsels, come to aid scaled ones in need? Will keep others from taking and spoiling what belongs to Turessks for seasons-without-count?
They mean aid versus the dwarves. Any promise of aid (military) or support (friendship or alliance) is taken in that context.
At any rate, it doesn't matter. Perry managed to melt what everyone said into a semi-cohesive whole.
I don't have your faith--hence my apprehension.
I feel like GM Rennai has more than proven their fairness as a GM. This is not them against us.
If the lizardfolk had any experience in intrigue, they'd deduce that there is internal fracture and seeds of lost trust between us, and take advantage of us. Even if they don't, that's a loss for us.
From what we have seen so far, we have no reason to think that the lizardfolk are looking to screw us over.
Again, by explaining his plan beforehand, Perry could have taken in everyone's opinions and preformulated an entreaty that didn't require our input on the scene. If you wanted everyone to stay quiet, you really should have said so. We aren't mind readers. There is still time to call for that break if you want to make sure everyone is in on the plan...
So far, no one has said anything bindingThat is only half-true. Promises have heavy diplomatic and political weight and will test our credibility too soon, especially in the below context.
No promises have been made. We are still discussing the terms. That is how negotations work, right? I fail to see a problem.
Will keep Turessk in counsels, come to aid scaled ones in need? Will keep others from taking and spoiling what belongs to Turessks for seasons-without-count?They mean aid versus the dwarves. Any promise of aid (military) or support (friendship or alliance) is taken in that context.
Do they? There has been no mention of dwarves until now. Even if they mean the dwarves specifically, any such misunderstanding could be easily fixed. That's what you just did, in fact. Our willingness to both talk to the dwarves on their behalf and fight against other threats together can do nothing but help our efforts. They value strength, don't they? We need something concrete.
At any rate, it doesn't matter.
Perry managed to melt what everyone said into a semi-cohesive whole.
That's fine, but we still need to hammer out the details on those points sooner or later. Why not now?
I know the GM and she won't screw us over because we 'showed initiative and participation by posting IC' in her PBP.
All GMs, myself included, want that from our players.
Even if this meeting/scene was not 'protocol', it was the best way to make it fun for everyone and fun is what it's all about. :)
I also concur with what others have said about everyone acting within their characters.
All good. Move along. Move along. :)
Now I am actually agitated about this. Was the wince really necessary? If they take anything as a show of weakness or lack of unity it would be that. If you and only you wanted to do the talking then you should have said something. Stop trying to rule over things and let the game move along please. Do not do the everyone can talk thing and then grumble about it when it happens.
My apologies if that seems to hostile but I seen massive fights in my life both socially and in game over stuff like this. Please keep your word.
Also the grumpy ranger is correct. GMs want player participation and generally do not want to punish them for it even if it was wrong. Which in this case I do no feel that it was wrong.
"For now, what we can promise is this: we will stay in touch when issues arise that concern your people or your interests."
Promises are oath so you are with Balthus now. To a primitive culture I see three ways for them to interpret this personally but as a GM I might take everyone's words at face value and let things happen depending on the personalities of the different clans.
Promises have heavy diplomatic and political weight and will test our credibility too soon, especially in the below context.
This is true and you have done so. But no one seems to be jumping at you.
To the interpretations. One is that we are speaking to them and the words are hollow. We are doing this because we have to and were made to so do but do not want to. This is also a big pull back from everything just said and shows a large amount of distinction in the ranks. Something you complained about and then did yourself.
The other is that we do not know enough of their culture to know what that could mean. Keeping in touch could be interpreted as saying we are keeping our hands in the plight of your tribe. Meaning that we are now on their side.
The third is taking it at face value and what you meant. But from a realist standpoint I do not see this option as valid but from a gaming standpoint this is the happy middle ground a GM would pick to have the player feel like they accomplished something as a group and have them bond over it.
It is really easy to assume the worst but not as much fun for most people.
At any rate, it doesn't matter. Perry managed to melt what everyone said into a semi-cohesive whole.
That is incredibly demeaning and has me rather angry. It was a semi-cohesive whole already. You tried to backpedal in your last post.
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@Intrigue & DM Fairness: You're all right. I'm sure GM Rennai doesn't want to screw us over. In intrigue-heavy campaigns, however, it isn't considered bad conduct from the GM's side.
This (probably) isn't one, so I concede that I overreacted.
@Pre-Battle Discussion: Also a fair point. In my defense, I've posted little before the negotiations due to RL issues, so I was not able to give Jetta's request (to specify our talking points and strategy) its full respect. I yield on this as well.
Do they? There has been no mention of dwarves until now.
They did: 'stout-folk' are dwarves. I maintain that this was the context.
@Amund: Your post is too emotional and hostile. Re-write it once you calm down, and I'll reply to it.
@Perry: Fair enough. Just keep the possibility of a mid-negotiations break in mind. That wouldn't be too unusual, I think. You're the coach, so it's up to you if we need to revise our game plan.
@Amund: Hey, no need to get personal. Out-of-character frustration sometimes bleeds into character. That happens to everybody. There were some mixed expectations going into the current scenario. That is bound to happen from time to time, as well. I feel like we have gotten to the core of the problem: Perry has admitted to overreaction on his part, and it seems like we've all been drawing a lot of conclusions about how the lizardfolk are and how they might react without waiting to hear back from the GM. Let's trust that they'll settle things in a way that is fun for everyone, yeah?
In a clam state I stand behind what I said. I still think you are being slightly hypocritical and demeaning. It has been a few hours and I am calm. I am not rewriting the post since I do not feel that it is two hostile. Emotional yes. A little hostile? That is probably true. I typically strive to keep gaming separate from life and typically that works outside of a crisis. I woke up after a night of actual sleep for the first time in a few weeks so I was completely calm when I read everything. And yes I got aggravated but that was all. PbP lacks the ability to look at people or read the tone of a conversation.
I may have started the post minuets after I saw everyone posts but clearly it took me some time to finish it. Once I typed the second paragraph I realized I was angry and walked away. I left it alone for thirty some odd minuets. I calmed down compleatly before finishing the post. Then I went back though and reread those posts the finished my reply. I am calm but annoyed. I am sorry if it seems that my post was to hostile but I honestly feel yours was hypocritical and demeaning.
Yes you did have RL issues at that time. I completely understand that. I have had my own and the game continues on. I simply have to catch back up and go with the flow or find an in-game reason to bring an old topic up.
Simply because I make sure to tell you that I am aggravated with something you posted does not mean that I am to emotional to have a clearly much needed conversation about it. People can get angry/hurt/annoyed/aggravated/ about a subject and still be able to rationally discuss the subject at hand. My intent in using those words was, I will put it another way, to let you know that you had offended me by speaking a certain way. I feel as though you are trying to talk to me as if I am a child and I am 28.
Ah Jetta posted while I was typing. I am not trying to get personal. Perhaps after calming down I should have removed that line of text but I did not and now it seems as if I have taken things to personally.
Ultimately this is a game I play for fun and how I decompress from the world. And that is what I would like for it to stay.
Our pasts make us who we are and that is something inescapable. But to be fair this is the out of character page. This is the place to do that. And nothing has bled into game play. Amund is unaffected by this. This is a player discussion and in a character discussion.
In a face to face game I assume this is the point where the game pauses and we all talk about in as players. I do not feel that I was getting personal but explaining my reaction. I suppose I should have left that paragraph out.
Out for the night for Independence Day celebrations. Sorry I ended up missing some heated discussion, but I'll see if I can address concerns now.
Concerning contributions from all: As others have pointed out, while it was agreed that Perry would take the lead on talks, sitting and watching while all the conversation falls onto one person leads to disengagement, and especially in PbP disengagement hurts. So my response was intended to allow a chance for everyone to contribute, and as has also been mentioned, I'm not going to penalize anyone for doing what I've prompted for, especially since everyone reacted very according-to-character. Responses will be taken into account now and in the future, as they should be, but the game's not a competition - it's cooperative storytelling. You guys have built a great story along with me so far, and I'm excited to see that continue.
Concerning emotions: Tensions seem to have run a bit high over the last couple of days, which everyone's admitted (and I thank everyone for being willing to admit that they're prone to shortcomings just like all humans). I'm not going to nag at individuals and pick apart particular responses - I don't think it'll have any value. I'll simply reiterate that, as Amund said, we're here to have fun and create together. Everyone's contributions to that effort are valued, varied as they are and should be. Disparaging others or letting in-character remarks heat up out-of-character conversation is detrimental to that effort; I urge everyone to remember the difficulties inherent in text-based communication, to take others' responses in good faith, and to show yourselves worthy of that good faith by seeking to build others up.
Everyone, take a second to take a deep breath. I'll be putting together Kassmak's response over the next couple of hours, and we'll move along from there. There'll be chances for sidebar conversation if you want to work together and present a more composed response; if everyone decides together that they prefer to leave more set talking points until after further conversation with other involved parties, that's fine too. This is y'all's story; I just facilitate it.
If anyone has any further concerns, please be sure to bring them up in this forum or in private messages, whichever is more appropriate; I want issues to be discussed rather than left to fester. For now, is everyone ok to move forward?
If anyone has any further concerns, please be sure to bring them up in this forum or in private messages, whichever is more appropriate; I want issues to be discussed rather than left to fester. For now, is everyone ok to move forward?
Balthus looked about incredulously at all the drama. He cleared his throat and spit on the ground all the while shaking his head. "Like bickerin' young ones..."
______________Ready when you are. :)
People, let's not forget this is a game! :)
Also ready to move on! The Vale must be conquested! er..
I always prefer for the game to continue. I do apologize for dragging out an argument.
Would've continued sooner, except apparently I was far more sleepy than I realized when I laid down for a nap yesterday. ;) Post upcoming now.
Ready to move on!
Some carry huge platters of food that they set on the floor surrounding the center pool with its floating brazier - varied types of fungus, steaming greens, haunches of meat dripping with rich juices. Some bring flagons of liquid, others curious musical instruments (or so you surmise); still others bring in flat dishes filled with fire-dried sand, demonstrating how to use it to clean away grime from hands. As the celebration takes shape,...
I just had the picture of the Red Wedding flash in my head. :)
Now that would be a mean GM indeed. :)
Balthus why would you mention that? Bad player! Giving the GM evil ideas ;)
"Giving me ideas." Of course. Bad Balthus. The ideas were never there before horrible Balthus put them in, the sneaky dog. ;) Ok, I solemnly swear this feast won't end in mass murder...or cannibalism. That was the last feast. ;)
Moving along tonight. By the way, for future reference, in case anyone wasn't sure...not so good an idea to break a molar. Which I discovered this morning to my detriment.
Yes scold Balthus! :D Evil mean player :P He might still be bitter about the finger food served at the last party we attended. :)
The broken molar suck! You should never do that.
Continued Naivity! That is not true! Not naive just an optimist. Which is sometimes difficult for a perpetual pessimist to play :P
His outlook is how I would prefer to see the world but I am actually closer to what Jetta mention.
@Balthus: We met with one dwarf, but we did not attempt to initiate diplomatic contact.
After we resolve this fire, we can hopefully move on to that and settle this dispute.
"Met with." ;)