Benefit: You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.
By RAW it doesn't seem so, but just wondering if it would by some other source.
I don't believe so.
But I don't see why you can't do some hand waving to make it so.
A buckler isn't carried the way a normal shield is... It's more like attached to your forearm. There would be no need for a quickdraw buckler.
That might be true for most users, but for someone who wants to use that hand to cast spells or wield a weapon. It could also be important for someone who needs one hand "free" for a particular game mechanic, like a scimitar wielder using Dervish Dance.
Personally, I think a "quckdraw buckler" makes perfect sense and is not unbalanced. I would probably make the character have it custom made, however. (i.e. Roleplay it!)
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A buckler isn't carried the way a normal shield is... It's more like attached to your forearm. There would be no need for a quickdraw buckler.That might be true for most users, but for someone who wants to use that hand to cast spells or wield a weapon.
Wearing a buckler doesn't interfere with spellcasting at all. Similarly, you can wield a weapon with that hand and just take a -1 to hit. (Though even that doesn't apply if you're using a bow.)
These actions cost you your AC bonus from the buckler for that round, but that's kind of irrelevant when comparing to removing it altogether.
The way that bucklers work in Pathfinder is peculiar. A traditional buckler would be held in the hand and not strapped to anything. Most don't even have straps but a handle...
Based on the buckler description, a bow user would receive a -1 to Atk, and lose their AC bonus from the buckler. What would be the point then?
Based on the buckler description, a bow user would receive a -1 to Atk, and lose their AC bonus from the buckler. What would be the point then?
You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.
No attack penalty, but you lose the AC bonus.
Based on the buckler description, a bow user would receive a -1 to Atk, and lose their AC bonus from the buckler. What would be the point then?You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.No attack penalty, but you lose the AC bonus.
That's the description, not the benefit. Edit: buckler description.
As already posted, the benefit is:
"You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn.You can't make a shield bash with a buckler"
Emphasis mine. Wielding the bow is with two hands.
Now, it says the AC bonus is lost. What about magical enhancements on the buckler, Like if I had light fortification, or Arrow deflection?
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That's the description, not the benefit. Can't go by description for feats like that.Based on the buckler description, a bow user would receive a -1 to Atk, and lose their AC bonus from the buckler. What would be the point then?You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.No attack penalty, but you lose the AC bonus.
1) It's not a feat, it's the buckler's description.
2) The part about not taking a penalty with a bow is in the same paragraph as what you quoted. Claiming it's less valid is erroneous.
Bucklers do not need to be quickdrawed as they are attached to your forearm, meaning they are constantly out unless you take a move/standard action to remove it from your hand. Consider it like a Swift Locked Gauntlet (who uses those things anyway?).
As far as I am concerned, using a Buckler is pointless unless you're switching from an offensive playstyle to a defensive playstyle. It's great for Dual Wielders who needs to hunker down from becoming a threat, and then switching back to their barrage when they are no longer a viable target.
There is otherwise not much of a usage for it. The Bows/Crossbows and Bucklers are nice, but unless it's a Hand Crossbow, you still suffer penalties for using it to attack; ergo, you still do not gain the benefits of your Buckler if you use a Longbow or Heavy Crossbow (or whatever) to attack during that round.
The creators definitely need to take some advice from the 3.x+ books. The Complete Warrior book would definitely make a Buckler much less confusing to use or to decipher its usage. The biggest thing that would make a Buckler absolutely amazing is the Improved Buckler Defense feat. Sure, we house-ruled the other books and their feats/spells/items/etc. in our games, but it does not change the fact that the books do contain some vital information/gameplay elements that would greatly enhance/add more viable builds to the overall game.
That's the description, not the benefit. Can't go by description for feats like that.Based on the buckler description, a bow user would receive a -1 to Atk, and lose their AC bonus from the buckler. What would be the point then?You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.No attack penalty, but you lose the AC bonus.1) It's not a feat, it's the buckler's description.
2) The part about not taking a penalty with a bow is in the same paragraph as what you quoted. Claiming it's less valid is erroneous.
Show me where you see in the bucklers benefit, where I quoted no penalty. On the description it says no penalty and the specifics of the benefit outweigh the description.
Many times have a feat, ability, or item, even just a buckler, have had a different description, then the actual benefit or effect they provide. In these cases the benefit is the actual gain, not what the description says.
Also, says no penalty for carrying it. Last time I checked, carrying something provided no penalties or benefits, unless weilded or in use. So yes, you can have a buckler on your arm, but the moment you use your bow, the buckler is pointless.
The buckler is only good for traveling and whatnot, when you get attacked but aren't aware of it. After that, you go to initiative and are attacking.
There is otherwise not much of a usage for it. The Bows/Crossbows and Bucklers are nice, but unless it's a Hand Crossbow, you still suffer penalties for using it to attack; ergo, you still do not gain the benefits of your Buckler if you use a Longbow or Heavy Crossbow (or whatever) to attack during that round.
It expressly states in the buckler description: "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it."
What penalty do you think they are referring to if not the -1 penalty to attacks?
I honestly believe the quickdraw buckler, was Paizo's attempt to simulate Improved Buckler Defense without directly coping non-open content from WotC. Its not very elegant in the way it does it however. And the concept of activating/deactivating something in the same round is a difficult pill for many to swallow, whether it be the quickdraw shield or force shield or mounting/dismounting etc.
The creators definitely need to take some advice from the 3.x+ books. The Complete Warrior book would definitely make a Buckler much less confusing to use or to decipher its usage. The biggest thing that would make a Buckler absolutely amazing is the Improved Buckler Defense feat. Sure, we house-ruled the other books and their feats/spells/items/etc. in our games, but it does not change the fact that the books do contain some vital information/gameplay elements that would greatly enhance/add more viable builds to the overall game.
The penalties I'm referring to is the Buckler granting you AC. You don't receive that AC if you attack with a Bow or Crossbow. The only penalty using a Bow or Crossbow disregards is that you don't receive a -1 to hit for using a Bow or Crossbow while a Buckler is equipped.
Sure, you can shoot with it without penalty. But you still don't receive the Buckler's AC, meaning it's equally as pointless as if it were a 2-handed weapon (because Bows and Crossbows, with the exception of Hand Crossbows, have the same requirements of a 2-handed weapon).
Buckler isn't a quickdraw shield, the specific metal and wooden quickdraw shields are.
The buckler behaves nothing like you would think it does, it (and pretty much all fantasy bucklers) acts like a targe in that it is strapped to the forearm and the hand is free, while a real european buckler would be held in the hand with a simple bar.
Because you must strap the buckler onto your arm (like you strap a light, heavy, or tower shield to your arm) it costs a move action and is not affected by quickdraw. The quickdraw shields however provide 1 AC, a -2 penalty, but are a free action to equip if you have the quickdraw feat. This is because the QD shields are designed with a different type of strap and handle that makes them faster to equip but less effective as a shield. The thing that the buckler gets that nothing else has is that it doesn't have any type of handle you have to grip, giving you a completely free offhand.
Also, regarding losing the AC when you fire a bow, the text itself is not nearly solid enough about that. It first says "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it." Then it says "You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so." Finally, it says "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn."
With a two handed weapon both hands are committed to swinging the sword and an offhand weapon is obviously using the buckler arm to attack with. Ranged weapons however are different, and aren't attacking so much as firing something. I would rule that since the offhand for a crossbow or bow is either aiming or reloading that you don't lose the AC bonus. It looks like what they were aiming for is that when your offhand is being used to swing or stab with a melee weapon that you can't also use the shield in a defensive way.