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Well said Marshall. Bang on target.
Taking the topic on from the current issue re Avo, I must confess to a certain nervousness when I see bold statements like yours, JP, about PC development at high levels. I have Pathfinder experience, but none in long term campaigns. I worry about making mistakes in character dev which hit us later on.
I hope my worries are overdone, and of course it's not today's problem. Let's have a discussion before we start the AP. There's certainly changes to make to Arun to make him relevant to the challenges ahead. I suspect I'd like to recast him as a blaster or enchanter rather than an illusionist.
Tim
-Posted with Wayfinder
Illusionists can be problematic.
I would suggest (metaphorically) sitting down with the GM, to clarify how he sees certain spells working (as there is a lot of table variation on, say, how useful Silent Image is, ranging from enormously versatile to practically useless).
That said, play what you want to play :-)
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I have a lot of experience theory-crafting, have played a lot of games, and will trawl through all of the new releases to see what is 'useful' (I have a big binder where I archive the stuff that falls into that category). Consequently, I can build quite solid PCs, as Sariel can attest to!
That said, optimising the design of a character for low-level play is different to high-level play; Jean-Pierre is a definite case in point when it comes to that (for example, whilst Will saves are less of an issue the first few levels, having a poor Will save at high levels can be crippling, if not down-right dangerous; for example, I once saw a level 9 crossblooded sorceror liquefy half the party when they failed a save versus Lesser Confusion, and promptly dumped an Empowered 12d6+24 Intensified, Acid-substituted Fireball onto them...)
Yes.
Well said Marshall. Bang on target.
Thank you!
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Please don't stabilise the Raven. If it dies, it dies. I can finally get that rabbit! Don't waste an action on the the little thief! :) Not until we're done here.
I seem to have started something here. I didn't mean to cause such turmoil. I'm sorry. I meant what I said, I have no issue with Jean's actions, I guess I just wanted to check I had not really him off (as a player) GM is absolutely right, tone and context are everything and get lost on boards and also that talking things out is for the best.
Moving on... Character optimisation is not something I am at all good at, I would really welcome your input when we fine tune after this module Jean. My characters could really use a tad more effectiveness...
Ah JP...you ruined all the fun! :(
Swallow Whole (Ex) When Ulizmila’s
cauldron begins its turn with a grappled
opponent in its “mouth,” it can swallow
that opponent with a successful grapple
check. Once inside, the opponent
takes 1d4 points of nonlethal damage
per round from the cauldron’s wild
movements. A swallowed creature can
cut its way out by using a light weapon
to deal 10 points of damage to the
cauldron’s interior gizzard (AC 15;
hardness 5). Once the creature exits, the
stone of the cauldron reforms, closing
the hole; another swallowed opponent
must fight its own way out. Ulizmila’s
cauldron interior can hold 1 Medium, 2
Small, 4 Tiny, 8 Diminutive, or 32 Fine or
smaller opponents.
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Note to self: if the GM thinks it's fun to have characters swallowed, make sure you have small weapons to use when devoured.
This may come up again, he seems like a 'fun loving' guy :-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Note to self: if the GM thinks it's fun to have characters swallowed, make sure you have small weapons to use when devoured.
This may come up again, he seems like a 'fun loving' guy :-)
I was going to have the cauldron burp once he digested the magician...
Well, if Khaz dies a horribly fun death, it's a good thing I have several other characters i look forward to running :)
Here is the "recruitment" thread for The Ironfang Invasion:
Let's start talking about what characters we plan to play. This is just like PFS at 2nd level...You may keep the same character you are playing and overhaul him ie. change his crunch/tweak his backstory OR you can start with a brand new character at 2nd level. If you transfer, you keep current gear and get 900 extra gold. If you start new, you get 1,000 gold. You can craft things you are able to before the adventure begins to save gold. Crafting will be a little difficult once the first few modules start though.
If you decide not to carry on, that is OK too. Just let me know so I can recruit other players if need be. Please start the conversation ASAP, so the transition will be smooth. I hope you are all on board!!!
PS: I plan to complete this module this week. I have tweaked the end encounters to finish the module a little quicker. The last encounters set up the next module and we do not plan do not plan to progress to that.
Thanks again for your support during this first module so far. I hope it has been a good "getting to know each other and how we each play" experience.
I know it is probably a mistake, but I'm thinking of taking 1 level of urban bloodrager. +2 HP, +1 BaB, +10ft movement (40ft movement dwarf!), power attack and Str20 when needed. Will still give healing, but I'll be able to contribute a whole lot more to combat. Will likely take elemental bloodline, as having a flaming warhammer feels very Torag.
It'll mean less spell casting, and fewer channels...but the difference between (+4 hit, 2d6+4 damage) and (+5 hit, 3d6+10 damage) is huge.
I know it is probably a mistake, but I'm thinking of taking 1 level of urban bloodrager. +2 HP, +1 BaB, +10ft movement (40ft movement dwarf!), power attack and Str20 when needed. Will still give healing, but I'll be able to contribute a whole lot more to combat. Will likely take elemental bloodline, as having a flaming warhammer feels very Torag.
I am glad you are staying with Khaz. I like him very much. I will weave Torag into the campaign. Feel free to "roll" him up and post the changes in the recruitment thread. Since I didn't get to do a recruitment thread for this, I am going to use that to check all the characters before we start!!
Is it possible to find something in the mines which would explain the level of bloodrager? An old dwarven tune, a despoiled temple to Torag, etc? It would explain the close combat power spike.
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Looking at the party composition currently, we have good frontline, healing and survival capability. Some areas we appear weak are rogue skills (steath, disable traps etc) and ranged attack.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Is it possible to find something in the mines which would explain the level of bloodrager? An old dwarven tune, a despoiled temple to Torag, etc? It would explain the close combat power spike.
Yes. There is actually of temple of Torag written in the module. I am keeping it. There will be some cool stuff for you that will lead into whatever you decide. Just let me know your plans.
Looking at the party composition currently, we have good frontline, healing and survival capability. Some areas we appear weak are rogue skills (steath, disable traps etc) and ranged attack.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Agreed. Opening up other classes and archetypes really helps diversity.
Posted my lvl2 in the recruitment thread. Hope the characters stay the same even if crunch changes. I really like everyone's characters here!
At lvl3 can't decide whether to take tribal scars (+6hp, +5ft movement and +2 acrobatics...for a 45ft movement dwarf!) or extra channel (+2 channels). So many feats, so few slots.
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OK so here's some thoughts:
I enjoy Arun from an RP perspective and I'd like to keep him thematically similar to how he is today, although he'd benefit from some tweaking to make him more relevant to the AP we are about to start.
I have in mind to shift him from an illusionist to an Enchanter with the Animal Whisperer campaign trait. This means he'd bring some useful skills to the team (Handle Animal, Kn Nature, future crafting ability) plus the ability to use charm and compulsion spells on animals. I'd plan to keep his blacksmith background intact - I like the way it synchs with Khaz.
Secondly, looking afresh at his current profile I see I somehow screwed up his ability point total when I changed it before. Sorry about this - it'll be in line with a 20-point build when I finish tonight.
When we start the AP, will we have had some time to train an animal mount, if purchased within the starting gp?
OK so here's some thoughts:
I enjoy Arun from an RP perspective and I'd like to keep him thematically similar to how he is today, although he'd benefit from some tweaking to make him more relevant to the AP we are about to start.
I have in mind to shift him from an illusionist to an Enchanter with the Animal Whisperer campaign trait. This means he'd bring some useful skills to the team (Handle Animal, Kn Nature, future crafting ability) plus the ability to use charm and compulsion spells on animals. I'd plan to keep his blacksmith background intact - I like the way it synchs with Khaz.
Secondly, looking afresh at his current profile I see I somehow screwed up his ability point total when I changed it before. Sorry about this - it'll be in line with a 20-point build when I finish tonight.
When we start the AP, will we have had some time to train an animal mount, if purchased within the starting gp?
Yes on the mount! I will let your allies discuss your build with you. Feel free to carry those conversations to the recruitment thread listed above!
I like the move from illusionist to enchanter. Very little expeirence for full casters, so can't offer much in the way of build advice....
@Arun:
*cracks knuckles*
Well, in that case, off the top of my head, if you want to stay Wizard (Enchanter), I suggest the following:
Switch race to Kitsune (you can keep your current avatar, as your 'human' guise).
There is an alternate racial trait that makes them a -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int race (perfect for wizards!).
They also get a Racial +1 bonus on to the DCs of Enchantment spells.
Go Enchantment with the 'Controller' subschool.
Stack the 'Thassilonian Specialist' Archetype on top of that - sure, you lose access to Necromancy and Transmutation, but the two extra spells slots per spell level is pretty phenomenal :-)
Take Spell Focus(Enchantment) at 1st level, then Greater Spell Focus(Enchantment) at 3rd, then Persistent Spell at 5th.
Your 'go to' Enchantment spells at low levels will probably be:
1st level: Aphasia, Charm Person
2nd level: Hideous Laughter
3rd level: Aversion
For traits, take Wayang Spell Hunter, and Magical Lineage - this will allow you to cast Persistent Aversion as a 3rd level spell (rather than a 5th level one) - the spell is phenomenal, especially given how easily it 'shuts down' dangerous boss monster (by essentially making then permanently nauseated).
Note: I would take max ranks in Linguistics, to try and make it more likely that everything you talk to can understand you - an often vital concern when casting Enchantment spells.
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Of course, a Sorcerer would be an even more terrifying build option, but I figured that you wanted to stay Wizard ;-)
@Arun:
*cracks knuckles*
Well, in that case, off the top of my head, if you want to stay Wizard (Enchanter), I suggest the following:
Switch race to Kitsune (you can keep your current avatar, as your 'human' guise).
There is an alternate racial trait that makes them a -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int race (perfect for wizards!).
They also get a Racial +1 bonus on to the DCs of Enchantment spells.
Go Enchantment with the 'Controller' subschool.
Stack the 'Thassilonian Specialist' Archetype on top of that - sure, you lose access to Necromancy and Transmutation, but the two extra spells slots per spell level is pretty phenomenal :-)
Take Spell Focus(Enchantment) at 1st level, then Greater Spell Focus(Enchantment) at 3rd, then Persistent Spell at 5th.
Your 'go to' Enchantment spells at low levels will probably be:
1st level: Aphasia, Charm Person
2nd level: Hideous Laughter
3rd level: AversionFor traits, take Wayang Spell Hunter, and Magical Lineage - this will allow you to cast Persistent Aversion as a 3rd level spell (rather than a 5th level one) - the spell is phenomenal, especially given how easily it 'shuts down' dangerous boss monster (by essentially making then permanently nauseated).
Note: I would take max ranks in Linguistics, to try and make it more likely that everything you talk to can understand you - an often vital concern when casting Enchantment spells.
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Of course, a Sorcerer would be an even more terrifying build option, but I figured that you wanted to stay Wizard ;-)
Oh my!!! I'm going to have my work cut out for me!!
Six cauldrons next time!!
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Heh.
Well, he *asked* for advice ;-)
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@Arun:
Well, in that case, off the top of my head, if you want to stay Wizard (Enchanter), I suggest the following:Switch race to Kitsune (you can keep your current avatar, as your 'human' guise). There is an alternate racial trait that makes them a -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int race (perfect for wizards!). They also get a Racial +1 bonus on to the DCs of Enchantment spells.
Go Enchantment with the 'Controller' subschool. Stack the 'Thassilonian Specialist' Archetype on top of that - sure, you lose access to Necromancy and Transmutation, but the two extra spells slots per spell level is pretty phenomenal :-)
Take Spell Focus(Enchantment) at 1st level, then Greater Spell Focus(Enchantment) at 3rd, then Persistent Spell at 5th.
Your 'go to' Enchantment spells at low levels will probably be:
1st level: Aphasia, Charm Person
2nd level: Hideous Laughter
3rd level: AversionFor traits, take Wayang Spell Hunter, and Magical Lineage - this will allow you to cast Persistent Aversion as a 3rd level spell (rather than a 5th level one) - the spell is phenomenal, especially given how easily it 'shuts down' dangerous boss monster (by essentially making then permanently nauseated).
Note: I would take max ranks in Linguistics, to try and make it more likely that everything you talk to can understand you - an often vital concern when casting Enchantment spells.
Wow. You clearly do have detailed files. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this. I bow to your roll for 'arcane knowledge'.
In response, I would say:
- I'll stick with Human. It wouldn't be Arun otherwise! I don't want to RP something I'm not into, just to maximise the build.
- I'd already tagged the Controller subtype. I'm going for an animal enchanter build, so the 'Force of Will' ability comes in handy.
- The Sin Magic speciality looks amazing, at +2 spells per level. DM are you really happy with that?
- On Feats, I agree regards Spell Focus. I may or may not follow your advice at later levels. Arun is a smith and for the benfit of the party I may go Crafting, especially since for this AP we won't have much access to cities for equipment / magic items.
- On Traits, I'm doing something different - see above re animals etc.
- On Skills, I think the 'Force of Will' ability negates the need for Linguistics above.
I'll post the build so far on the recruitment thread. Let me know what you think.
You will actually only get one extra spell per level compared to a normal specialized wizard (that is still very good) and the two bonus spells have to be the same spell.
It will go like this:
Level 1: 1st level spells: 1 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)
Level 2: 1st level spells: 2 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)
Level 3: 1st level spells: 2 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)
2nd level spells: 1 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)
Rinse, lather, and repeat.
PS: I am glad you are sticking with human.
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You will actually only get one extra spell per level compared to a normal specialized wizard (that is still very good) and the two bonus spells have to be the same spell.
It will go like this:
Level 1: 1st level spells: 1 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)
Level 2: 1st level spells: 2 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)
Level 3: 1st level spells: 2 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)
2nd level spells: 1 (Spell per day)+1 (High Int)+2 (Sin Magic, must be same spell)Rinse, lather, and repeat.
PS: I am glad you are sticking with human.
Well if you're happy then so am I.
One question: does the 'extra spell slots per level' apply to cantrips as well? ie can I learn not 4 but effectively 5 per day?
Well, if we don't have access to cities, crafting is an option, but it can be a little bit of a trap - I would stick with Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion.
For example, Craft Wondrous Item seems like a good idea, but when you consider that it will take, for example, 16 days to craft a Headband of Vast Intelligence +4, chances are, you won't see a lot of use out of it (unless the GM gives us months of down-time, which, from the description of the AP, I did not get the impression that there would be).
Of course, as long as you are crafting 'low end' (i.e. <1000gp) items, you may get a fair amount of mileage out of it.
Force of Will works, certainly, for, example, the sake of interrogation, but spells like Suggestion and Hideous Laughter kind of need a common language (and if you are needing to cast those sort of spells on a target that you have already charmed / dominated, there is something wrong...)
Consequently, I would still recommend Linguistics.
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Re: Thassilonian Specialist, nowhere in the archetype description does it say that the two additional spells *replaces* the one additional spell that a 'normal' specialist gets - I grant you, there is a reasonable argument that it is supposed to, but to my knowledge, there is no errata clarifying that. That said, if you want to rule it that way, that is fine, as well :-)
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Heh. That build was just off the top of my head. I didn't even have to look at my notes ;-)
One question: does the 'extra spell slots per level' apply to cantrips as well? ie can I learn not 4 but effectively 5 per day?
I would say no because it enhances the school specialization part of the wizard. The rule for that reads:
"Each arcane school gives the wizard a number of school powers. In addition, specialist wizards receive an additional spell slot of each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up."
\Re: Thassilonian Specialist, nowhere in the archetype description does it say that the two additional spells *replaces* the one additional spell that a 'normal' specialist gets - I grant you, there is a reasonable argument that it is supposed to, but to my knowledge, there is no errata clarifying that. That said, if you want to rule it that way, that is fine, as well :-)
I'll look further into this. I heard the anniversary edition of Rise of the Runelords clarified this issue.
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Again, wow. All of which makes me wonder what the hell are you intending to bring for youself, if not JP?
-Posted with Wayfinder
So we have a Wizard and a Cleric/Bloodrager! What do the rest of you guys think?
I am not really familiar with the crafting rules. I think there are plenty of opportunities to purchase magic items. If not, I will figure something out for y'all.
Well, once we hit level 9, it becomes a non-issue, since we get access to Teleport, which will enable us to go shopping pretty much whenever we want.
Looking at the party composition currently, we have good frontline, healing and survival capability. Some areas we appear weak are rogue skills (steath, disable traps etc) and ranged attack.
well that was a fun read!
Arun Lets see what others want to play as well. If no one goes thief and with Khaz beefing up with a little bloodrager, I may go with either a trapper ranger or slayer with ranged skills giving him the dex. to do traps well and sneak a little.
If Avogadro wanted to change up his character a little but keep the same theme I was going to encourage him to look at Counterfeit Mage to mix and match with wizard or sorcerer. But if he wants to stay a face, I can handle the traps with something.
Counterfeit Mage does seem a lot like Avogadro. Though I could also see him as a Sage Seeker Sorceror. The arcane power of a mage, mixed with a rogue's guile, sans the hard work of actually studying for your magic.
Counterfeit Mage does seem a lot like Avogadro. Though I could also see him as a Sage Seeker Sorceror. The arcane power of a mage, mixed with a rogue's guile, sans the hard work of actually studying for your magic.
that works as well, flavors a little different but he could tweak it to fit Avogadro,
Btw, a slayer works great as a knight of erastril. So too does a sanctified slayer inquisitor. Great face skills, can grab trap finder as a trait, get studied target, spells, and an inquisition.
Also makes a great archer. Swift Action Bane at lvl5 with rapid shot/many shot. Tag on Str16, fates favored and divine favor. With Dex18 and a +1 bow, that's...
To Hit: +13 (hits twice)/+13 (+3 BaB, +4 Dex, +1 bow, +2 Bane, +3 divine favor, -2 rapid shot, +2 studied target)
Damage: 1d8+2d6+11 (bow, Bane, +3 Str, +2 Bane, +1 enchantment, +3 divine favor, +2 studied target)
All that for 1 turn of self buffing.
Throw in 7 skill points per level (human) and you can do plenty more. With trap finder for disable device, perception and stealth you are the party rogue. Throw in knowledge nature and survival for erastril. That leaves 2 skill points for flavor. And you'd have plenty of options to choose from.
Oh, and solo tactics with teamwork feats. Can make shooting into combat increase your hit chance...
Yeah I like slayer a lot, if I was going archer with a religious theme I would definitely go inquisitor.
He could only take 'trap finder' if GM Mason let us take traits from other AP's. Also, the flavor of the trait would need to be tweaked a little since 'tombs of the necropolis' is a stretch.
If you want to check out a Bad inquisitor build take a look at Basil!
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I am not really familiar with the crafting rules. I think there are plenty of opportunities to purchase magic items. If not, I will figure something out for y'all.
I was expecting that since this AP is going to include wilderness survival, helping to protect and establish refugees, and building militias, we might be using the 'Downtime' rules. We'll need this for recruiting into the militia we build, gathering information, etc, and crafting fits well with this.
The currency of downtime is days. With say 5 - 10 days between events, there's a lot of rich RP that this system can allow / encourage. And it's PbP friendly too. DM tells people to list their activities for the days available plus supporting roll, each player posts, resolve and move on.
From a party perspective, the advantage of crafting is a) it's 50% cheaper to make than buy, so our limited loot goes much further and b) it's reliable. Buying involves making rolls to see whether a specific item is available. If you want a +1 keen falchion, Arun ought to be able to make it for you (in time...) The shopkeeper might not have one available.
Please do have a look at the downtime rules. I'd really like us to use them, because I think it will add to the feeling that we're harried, pursued, insecure, then building a response and fighting back. Plus it will enable more great RP, outside of regular encounters.
Tim
-Posted with Wayfinder
My sincerest apologies for being away for a few days. I should've posted, but I was laid up with some flu or something. No food, very little fluid, high fever, etc.
I'm back in business, and will resume my normal posting rate.
Oh, and while I considered making Fergal a Hunter if we opened classes, I think I might actually remain a straight druid, unless anyone has any thoughts on the matter. I'm tied to his personality and where I want him to go, but not as much to the mechanical side of it.
My sincerest apologies for being away for a few days. I should've posted, but I was laid up with some flu or something. No food, very little fluid, high fever, etc.
I'm back in business, and will resume my normal posting rate.
Oh, and while I considered making Fergal a Hunter if we opened classes, I think I might actually remain a straight druid, unless anyone has any thoughts on the matter. I'm tied to his personality and where I want him to go, but not as much to the mechanical side of it.
[dice=Treasure]1d10
Welcome back! I'm glad you are feeling better. Thanks for the PM. You missed a bunch of fun craziness!
Long day. I'll update in a few hours.
As mentioned in ooc, the ghost meant as you adventure...not in these tombs. The thieves stole the item and left. Rhoddam saw unusual tracks heading from this direction towards Falcon's Hollow. I am sorry if I didn't make that clear. I would have said more, but it looked like JP got the point (so I thought it was clear).
With that said, do what you want. I'll play it out. I am giving in game warnings though ;)
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I love Khaz!!
I love Khaz!!
Thank you. :)
I do like how this scenario is allowing us to flesh out our characters. And on a personal note, I'm happy with how Khaz is 'growing up.' He's seen his first actual combat. He's killed his first foe (a wolf...) and he's getting his first taste of duty. It's alot of fun.
Also, our party really does mesh well together. It doesn't clash like I've seen other groups do, and it isn't a giant soppy hug fests either. Really happy to be part of this.
with an int 8, wis 10 and cha. 16, I'm trying to play Sariel as naïve and immature, but likable.
I think playing with a balanced party and people who recognize it's a multi-person game, makes it easier to enjoy.
On a side note, What is everyone's opinion if I make Sariel and inquisitor of Erastil, to help with ranged attacks instead of a paladin?
It's up to you on which one you would enjoy the most. While I do like Sariel as a paladin, inquisitors are alot of fun. I'm really fond of my sanctified slayer inquisitor archer. Once you get bane, the fun really starts.