Okay, so I played around with the 3.5 Eberron Artificer class once and enjoyed it quite a bit. It made me a little sad that Artificer wasn't in the APG or announced for the new Ultimate Magic book. So for the past few months I've been working on trying to make an Artificer base class myself. I've written and re-written my version of a Pathfinder Artificer many times, but it's still not that great (you can see it here if you really want to).
But I searched the forums here to see what other people might have done or what other's thoughts on the class were. Someone in some thread made the suggestion to make an Artifice Bloodline for the Sorcerer class. I did that, but it still wasn't that great. Then I had the idea to instead make an Artifice Oracle Mystery! And I think this is the closest to a Pathfinder Artificer that is probably realistically possible. If you like, please check it out here:
Sorry, it's a post from my blog on an anime site (I'm a huge anime nerd). It's the easiest way for me to share the class online without posting a crap ton in the body of a thread. That kind of thing can get difficult to read. It also includes the Artifice Bloodline I made.
So yeah, let me know what you think. ^_^
Oh, and before anyone says Item Creation and Crafting Expertise are too powerful for Revelations, please have a look at the Battle Mystery in the APG. Some of those Revelations give the character three feats or feat-like abilities. The only thing I'm thinking about changing right now is maybe adding this sentence to Magic Ability Casting: This ability acts as a metamagic feat which takes a spell slot one level higher.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Any input?? If it's easier to read it this way, I'll go ahead and paste it in the thread (can't find an edit feature so I guess I'll do it here):
-------------------
Artifice - Oracle Mystery
Deities: Abadar, Torag.
Class Skills: An oracle with the artifice mystery adds Appraise, Disable Device, Knowledge (arcana), Perception, and Use Magic Device to her list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: Magic Weapon (2nd), Make Whole (4th), Magic Vestment (6th), Magic Weapon, Greater (8th), Wall of Stone (10th), Animate Objects (12th), Refuge (14th), Spell Immunity, Greater (16th), Gate (18th).
Revelations: An oracle with the artifice mystery can choose from any of the following revelations.
Artisan Bonus: You gain a +1 bonus on Use Magic Device checks to activate items of the kind for which you have the prerequisite item creation feat. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 Oracle levels giving a +2 at level 5, +3 at level 10, +4 at level 15, and +5 at level 20.
Construct Affects: Whenever you cast cure or inflict spells (spells with “cure” or “inflict” in their names), they may be used to affect objects and constructs instead of living or undead creatures. This use changes the spell type to transmutation instead of conjuration (healing) or necromancy. You must possess the Craft Construct feat to select this revelation.
Crafting Expertise: You may select any two item creation feats: Brew Potion, Craft Construct (see the Bestiary, page 314), Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, and Forge Ring. You must meet the caster level prerequisite for at least one of the two feats. You gain these two feats. If you do not meet the prerequisite for one of the feats, you gain it when you reach the required caster level. You must already have the Item Creation revelation to take Crafting Expertise. You can gain this revelation multiple times.
Fast Crafting: You gain the ability to craft magical items at a faster rate. When determining the time required to perform the crafting of magic items, reduce the base price by 25%. At 15th level you become even faster, reducing the base price by 50% when determining the time required for making an item. This only affects the crafting time of the item. Crafting cost is still based on the actual base cost of the item (unless you also have Resourceful Crafting). You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.
Item Creation: You gain Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. You also gain the ability to emulate spell prerequisites for spell-trigger and spell-completion items by making Use Magic Device checks (DC 20 + caster level). Scrolls made in this way cannot be used by spellcasters to learn a spells. In addition, you may use this check to emulate spell prerequisites in other items or you may emulate any other prerequisites as described by the Use Magic Device skill to avoid the +5 increases on craft DC for not meeting prerequisites for an item. You may attempt these checks once each day of crafting. If you come to the final day and still have not made a check, you may attempt the check one last time even if you already failed the check that day. If that check also fails and it was to emulate a spell prerequisite for a spell-trigger or spell-completion item, then the creation process fails and the time and money expended to craft the item are lost. Otherwise, the final craft DC for the item is increased by +5 for each missing prerequisite as normal.
Magic Ability Casting: Whenever you cast Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, or Greater Magic Weapon you may choose to not add the usual enhancement bonus to the equipment. In place of the enhancement bonus you grant the item a magic ability of a bonus value up to what you are able to cast with the spell. The item does not have to have an existing enhancement bonus, nor does it gain one when you grant it the ability. It must be capable of receiving the ability and these spells cannot stack with each other. You must be at least 7th level and possess the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat to select this revelation.
Resourceful Crafting: You gain the ability to get the most use out of your materials when you are crafting magical items. When determining the gp cost of crafting a magic item, reduce the base price by 25%. At 15th level the discount increases, letting you reduce the base price by 50% when determining the cost of making an item. This only affects the cost of the item. Crafting time is still based on the actual base cost of the item (unless you also have Fast Crafting). You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.
Skill Mastery: You gain the ability to take 10 when making Spellcraft and Use Magic Device checks, even if stress and distractions would normally prevent you from doing so. This circumvents the normal rule that a character may not take 10 on a Use Magic Device check. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation.
Transmute Item: You gain the ability to break down magic items to their most basic components. As part of magical crafting you may use any number of magical items as raw materials to create new magical items using half of their base value to help cover the gp cost of your new items. If the gp gained in this way is more than what is needed for the crafting, the excess gp is lost unless you spend an extra day (equivalent to 1,000 gp base price worth) of crafting to make the extra amount into actual gp. This requires a separate Spellcraft check (DC 10). Alternately, you may simply spend that same amount of crafting time to break down any number of magical items to gain half of their base value in actual gp using the same Spellcraft check. You must have the appropriate item creation feats requited to make the items to perform this ability on them. You must possess the Craft Wondrous Item feat to select this revelation.
Trap Master: You gain the Trapfinding class feature of a Rogue, adding 1/2 of your Oracle level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). You can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps. If you also have levels in Rogue, they stack with your Oracle levels for this ability. If you beat a trap’s DC by 10 or more you can study the trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it without disarming it. You can rig the trap so your allies can bypass it as well. At 7th level you gain the Trap Spotter rogue talent giving you an immediate Perception check to notice a trap whenever you come within 10 feet of it. This check should be made in secret by the GM. At 11th level you gain Skill Focus (Disable Device) as a bonus feat.
Final Revelation: Upon reaching 20th level, your life’s work in magical crafting has truly made you a master. Work required each day to craft an item is cut in half and the amount of gp worth you can craft in that time has multiplied by a factor of 10. You now only need 4 hours of work per 10,000 gp in an item’s base price, with a minimum of at least 4 hours. Any single magical crafting (no longer limited to just potions and scrolls) with a base price of 2,500 gp or less can be completed in 1 hour. Etc. You may also work up to 8 hours a day with no minimum of how many items you can work on, complete, or how much work you can put into an item. Therefore, you can work on one item for 8 hours to complete 20,000 gp of work, accelerate your work to 2 hours of work per 10,000 gp to work on an item for 8 hours to complete 40,000 gp of work, complete 8 items of 2,500 gp value or less in one 8 hour period, and have as many projects going on at once as you like.
|
Finally we can build Hephaestus! The Oracle can even be Lame and EVERYTHING!
Seriously though, it well captures the flavour of the Artificer and avoids many of the pit-falls. Kudos!
Finally we can build Hephaestus! The Oracle can even be Lame and EVERYTHING!
Seriously though, it well captures the flavour of the Artificer and avoids many of the pit-falls. Kudos!
Oh, thank you for the kind words. ^_^
At first I thought you meant "lame" as in "not good". Kind of made me sad because a friend of mine was just saying last night that he didn't think the Oracle was a very good class (personally I love the Oracle). But then I read the link on Hephaestus and remembered that Lame is one of the Oracle Curses. =P
Thanks again!
You might want to check out this Artificer on D20 PF SRD. It's a third party class that's been made open release.
Hmmm, it has some interesting ideas to it, but I'm not so sure about the large focus on skills. And Weird Science is interesting, but it can be really hard to use if the character's campaign doesn't allow for a lot of down time to make the inventions. It also doesn't fit very well with Pathfinder in some points. The HD is a d6, which it should be a d8 to match the classes attack bonus. Not gaining Forge Ring until level 14 when you only need to be a level 7 caster to take the feat in Pathfinder is a bit silly. And Exemplar is nowhere near on par with the average 20th level class ability in Pathfinder, especially since it's worded that he only gets the bonus on untrained skill checks. With Improved Jack of All Trades I'd have at least one skill rank in every single skill by the time I hit level 20.
But hey, at least it's an original class and you don't have to reference the old Eberron book for everything.
No offense to whoever made it, but this artificer conversion is just a mess! It's pretty much a complete straight conversion from the Eberron class with only a few adjustments. But the new things they added aren't that great and don't make the class any more useful in combat (which is one of the original class's biggest problems in my opinion). The class is even worse in combat because the person how made it thought the class should have a worse base attack bonus! The gp values of the Craft Reserve isn't given. And for some reason they thought an Artificer should have Heal, Perform, and Sense Motive as class skills?? And it references the crap out of the Eberron book. Not that I can really say much about that with where I am in my base class version of the Artificer. But seeing this is really motivating me to work on it some more and finish it so it can be played without ever touching Eberron.
Ahhh, sorry about the mini-rant.
Okay, I just added the Ex/Sp/Su descriptors to the Artifice Revelations:
Artisan Bonus (Ex)
Construct Affects (Su)
Crafting Expertise (Ex)
Fast Crafting (Ex)
Item Creation (Ex)
Magic Ability Casting (Su)
Resourceful Crafting (Ex)
Skill Mastery (Ex)
Transmute Item (Su)
Trap Master (Ex)
Yeah, maybe a bit of a minute detail, but I thought it was kind of important to dot all the i's or whatever. If anyone thinks some of them should have a different descriptor, let me know. Any other input is also welcome.
I also don't know if I really like all of the names of the Revelations. Especially "Construct Affects" and "Magic Ability Casting". Any suggestions for better names??
Sorry for making so many posts in a row. I've changed the wording for one of the revelations:
Crafting Expertise (Ex): You gain Brew Potion and Craft Wondrous Item as bonus feats. In addition, whenever you take any of the following Item Creation Feats: Craft Construct (see the Bestiary, page 314), Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, or Forge Ring; you may select a second feat from this list. You gain the second feat as soon as you reach the required caster level. You must be at least 3rd level to select this revelation.
Also, I've taken away the feat requirements for Construct Affects, Magic Ability Casting, and Transmute Item. I felt that how I had the Mystery set up before forced you to take Item Creation and Crafting Expertise as early and as often as possible in the first 10 levels to get any use out of the rest of the revelations. Though this Mystery has a high focus on Item Creation, I don't want that to be all it's good for. Hopefully this change will give it a little more flexibility for when someone picks the revelations. I also just thought the original wording for Crafting Expertise was a little awkward.
I still haven't thought of any better names for any of the revelations....
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Sorry for making so many posts in a row. I've changed the wording for one of the revelations:
Crafting Expertise (Ex): You gain Brew Potion and Craft Wondrous Item as bonus feats. In addition, whenever you take any of the following Item Creation Feats: Craft Construct (see the Bestiary, page 314), Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, or Forge Ring; you may select a second feat from this list. You gain the second feat as soon as you reach the required caster level. You must be at least 3rd level to select this revelation.
Also, I've taken away the feat requirements for Construct Affects, Magic Ability Casting, and Transmute Item. I felt that how I had the Mystery set up before forced you to take Item Creation and Crafting Expertise as early and as often as possible in the first 10 levels to get any use out of the rest of the revelations. Though this Mystery has a high focus on Item Creation, I don't want that to be all it's good for. Hopefully this change will give it a little more flexibility for when someone picks the revelations. I also just thought the original wording for Crafting Expertise was a little awkward.
I still haven't thought of any better names for any of the revelations....
I'm impressed, this seems very well-balanced when I compare it with the other Oracle choices. I might build this into my next campaign. Thanks!
I'm impressed, this seems very well-balanced when I compare it with the other Oracle choices. I might build this into my next campaign. Thanks!
Glad you like it! If you do try it out in a campaign, let me know how it works out for you.
while I like the idea behind this, I just don't think it fits my idea of an artificer.
with this style, aside from bonus spells, the player is limited to the clerics spell list. and there are a lot of good artificer spells on the other lists.
personally I am more in favor of the artificer conversion found here:
it changes some of the original aspects of the artificer to bring it more in line with the other pathfinder classes without changing the whole feel of the class.
I really Like this, I strongly suggest tossing it in a Google Doc and posting it the way Treantmonk does his guides.
Hmmm, that would be something to look into. Unfortunately right now I actually do a lot of my thinking on this kind of stuff during my lunch break and other downtime at work and for some crazy reason Google Doc is blocked here. Weird. For now my little anime blog has the latest version of the class with the mentioned changes worked in. But I'm glad you like it!
while I like the idea behind this, I just don't think it fits my idea of an artificer.
with this style, aside from bonus spells, the player is limited to the clerics spell list. and there are a lot of good artificer spells on the other lists.
personally I am more in favor of the artificer conversion found here:
it changes some of the original aspects of the artificer to bring it more in line with the other pathfinder classes without changing the whole feel of the class.
Well, that conversion is definitely a whole lot better than the one I posted earlier in this thread. I think it's funny how my conversion of the Artificer (my actual attempt at an Artificer base class, not the Oracle version) is the complete opposite from his in respect to abilities. He lets you pick and choose the item creation feats you want or you can pick none at all while having all of the artificer abilities in as automatic. I on the other hand made all of the item creation feats automatic while letting you pick and choose most of the other artificer abilities as Discoveries like an Alchemist. From my experience playing an Artificer, I wasn't big on metamagic feats so Metamagic Spell Trigger and Metamagic Spell Completion were totally unused abilities.
With my conversions (talking about both the base class and the Oracle version) my ultimate goal is to make it so the only books you need to play the character are those from Pathfinder. You should be able to copy and paste the Oracle Mystery I made right into the APG or the upcoming Ultimate Magic and it should fit in perfectly. I want the base class I'm working on to work just as well. Nomadicc's version still references the Eberron book and other sources and there are a few things about it I don't really like. I don't like limiting the Craft Reserve to up to 50% and I think the amounts are really low. I don't like how Retain Essence works. I've never seen the point in Craft Homonculus; just give them Craft Construct. And a few other things, but for the most part I'm just nitpicking. I think the main thing is that aside from the Trade Secrets, there isn't much customization to the class and that's a major thing in most Pathfinder classes. I really think using Discoveries would work best in that regard.
And if your main issue is with the spell selection, I say that's what scrolls and wands are for. Take the Item Creation revelation and you're set! They're Charaisma based casters so Use Magic Device should be really easy to pull off and you can take Artisan Bonus and Skill Mastery at 11th level to make sure you never fail. And to me, the signature Infusions for an Artificer have always been the Repair and Damage spells and Weapon Augmentation and Armor Enhancement which are converted by the use of Revelations.
Thanks for the link, though. It might help with my Artificer base class attempts.
I like it, for the most part. But mysteries usually have some combat abilities.
Maybe a ranged sunder? Ability to lower AC?
What I like about this is that it fits with House Cannith being Natural artificers. You could easily have this & your Artificer conversion in the same Eberron campaign.
What I like about this is that it fits with House Cannith being Natural artificers. You could easily have this & your Artificer conversion in the same Eberron campaign.
Glad you like it. And in case you haven't seen Cheapy's Artificer thread, here are the Google Docs I have for my conversions now:
Artificer
Artifice - Oracle Mystery
They're more or less finished at this point, though I might actually make a few tweaks to the Oracle Mystery sometime since I haven't touched it since I've finished the base class.
I like it, for the most part. But mysteries usually have some combat abilities.
Maybe a ranged sunder? Ability to lower AC?
Yeah, I was mainly trying to convert the key abilities of the 3.5 Artificer into the mystery, but it would be nice to change things up a bit. Like I said, I might look into it again to do some tweaking. I think an ability to disable magic items might fit. Take the rules for a targeted dispel magic on magic items as a base and go from there. The ranged sunder could be cool, too. I'll have to think about it some more....
|
So I went and wrote up some thoughts as I was reading this, and then noticed it was necro'd up from two years ago, and far, far, far beyond the point where my thoughts were relevant. Heh.
Spoilered, in case you care;
What’s the rationale on Gate, as the 18th level spell choice? Greater Spell Immunity also doesn’t immediately leap out to me as ‘artifice-y.’ (Iron Body, on the other hand, perhaps.)
Perception is an awfully good skill to be included with four others.
Knowledge (arcana) might make sense, but Knowledge (architecture & engineering) might make even more sense.
Artisan Bonus – fine
Construct Affects – fine, perhaps even can affect constructs with mind-affecting Oracle spells?
Crafting Expertise – perhaps drop prereq of Item Creation revelation and reduce to only a single bonus Crafting feat? Perhaps fold Artisan Bonus into this one?
Fast Crafting – cool. Should specifically mention whether or not you are limited to one item a day, regardless. I’m fine with it allowing someone to make multiple potions or scrolls in a day, up to 1000 gp value, for instance, but the rules would forbid that.
Item Creation – way too long a description, IMO. It got long enough, and conditional enough, especially towards the end, that I no longer had any idea what it was doing…
Magic Ability Casting – ooh, I love this one. Bane (whatever I need right now) is gonna be the logical end result (and perhaps Holy, as well), but, I’m good with that.
Resourceful Crafting – I don’t like this. I think I would rather have it allow someone to, when they fail a crafting check to make an item (magical or otherwise) to recover the materials. Failing a check no longer will cost the artisan money, just time.
Skill Mastery – good one.
Transmute Item – pretty much what you can do by selling items at half value anyway, but without having to run to town and find a buyer. Neat.
Trap Master – I like it, but some may object strenuously to an Oracle revelation that so neatly poaches a Rogue niche ability.
I agree with the notion that the revelations list should include some combat-useful stuff, like a magic weapon / magic vestment SLA or a targetted dispel magic on items ability or the ability to cause armor or weapons or items targeted to temporarily take on the broken quality (or broken items to be temporarily made fully functional).
So I went and wrote up some thoughts as I was reading this, and then noticed it was necro'd up from two years ago, and far, far, far beyond the point where my thoughts were relevant. Heh.
Actually, I've been working on my artificer base class for a long time to get it just right (at least in my mind), so I'll probably try to take some time to fix this up to get it up to speed and in line with the base class. So you're tips can still be relevant, so thank you.
What’s the rationale on Gate, as the 18th level spell choice? Greater Spell Immunity also doesn’t immediately leap out to me as ‘artifice-y.’ (Iron Body, on the other hand, perhaps.)
I will definitely be looking into adjusting the bonus spells. The first six spells were practically no-brainers (except for maybe Wall of Stone, but it's still at least appropriate), but the higher level stuff was a little harder to get things that fit the artificer flavor. With Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat out now, hopefully I can find some better choices. If you have any other suggestions, let me know!
Perception is an awfully good skill to be included with four others.
Knowledge (arcana) might make sense, but Knowledge (architecture & engineering) might make even more sense.
Yeah, it's a really good set of skills, but the skills are a big part of the artificer. If I change the skills, it will go away from what I originally mean this mystery to be (a totally conversion and replacement of the 3.5 artificer). But that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I'd think Appraise, all Knowledge, and Use Magic Device would be an acceptable alternate class skill list, getting rid of the Trap Master revelation. I might think about it....
Construct Affects – fine, perhaps even can affect constructs with mind-affecting Oracle spells?
That might be interesting. Personally I don't those kinds of spells a lot so I didn't really think of them. Might change it.
Crafting Expertise – perhaps drop prereq of Item Creation revelation and reduce to only a single bonus Crafting feat? Perhaps fold Artisan Bonus into this one?
I'd already dropped the Item Creation prereq, but getting the 2-for-1 crafting feat is kind of important. Though attaching Artisan Bonus to this sounds interesting. I'm might explore that, but Artisan Bonus is meant to be in there as a relatively weak revelation for balance so I'm a little hesitant about taking it out and attaching it to another revelation as an extra bonus.
Fast Crafting – cool. Should specifically mention whether or not you are limited to one item a day, regardless. I’m fine with it allowing someone to make multiple potions or scrolls in a day, up to 1000 gp value, for instance, but the rules would forbid that.
As written I meant for it to follow the rules, so no multiple items in a day until you reach the Final Revelation. That's one thing that artificer base class has on the oracle mystery, but for the oracle, Fast Crafting stacks with the Final Revelation while the artificer's Master Crafter replaces Trade Secrets. I might end up adjusting this, but I think it's pretty much fine as it is.
Item Creation – way too long a description, IMO. It got long enough, and conditional enough, especially towards the end, that I no longer had any idea what it was doing...
Hahaha! Yeah, this one of the key abilities of the 3.5 artificer and the main reason I decided to convert the artificer to an oracle mystery. The artificer was an INT based caster but he "faked" most of his magic to do his crafting. I tried my best to convert it and re-word it so that it wouldn't be confusing, but I guess it still can be. I'll have to look at it again.
Magic Ability Casting – ooh, I love this one. Bane (whatever I need right now) is gonna be the logical end result (and perhaps Holy, as well), but, I’m good with that.
Thanks! I was pretty proud of this little light-bulb. ^_^
Resourceful Crafting – I don’t like this. I think I would rather have it allow someone to, when they fail a crafting check to make an item (magical or otherwise) to recover the materials. Failing a check no longer will cost the artisan money, just time.
Yeah, I'll be scrapping this ability all together. It's something that I ended up taking away from the artificer class due to character wealth issues that could come up from it, I haven't go back to the oracle version yet to fix it. Luckily I'm getting some nice ideas on what to replace it with, but I probably won't anything like what you described here. These characters should almost never fail a crafting check, and if they're worried about that then they can take Skill Mastery.
Trap Master – I like it, but some may object strenuously to an Oracle revelation that so neatly poaches a Rogue niche ability.
Like I said, I may be getting rid of this all together if I end up changing the class skill sets. Although really, there are so many classes that can "steal" the trapfinding gig from the rogue that I don't think too many people would mind the oracle being able to do it, too.
I agree with the notion that the revelations list should include some combat-useful stuff, like a magic weapon / magic vestment SLA or a targetted dispel magic on items ability or the ability to cause armor or weapons or items targeted to temporarily take on the broken quality (or broken items to be temporarily made fully functional).
I definitely have some ideas on what can replace Trap Master and Resourceful Crafting to give this oracle some better combat options. I'll just have to work out the details. Thank for the feedback!
|
|
What’s the rationale on Gate, as the 18th level spell choice? Greater Spell Immunity also doesn’t immediately leap out to me as ‘artifice-y.’ (Iron Body, on the other hand, perhaps.)I will definitely be looking into adjusting the bonus spells. The first six spells were practically no-brainers (except for maybe Wall of Stone, but it's still at least appropriate), but the higher level stuff was a little harder to get things that fit the artificer flavor. With Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat out now, hopefully I can find some better choices. If you have any other suggestions, let me know!
There are a ton of spells that could fit, thanks to the Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic and, especially, Ultimate Combat.
1 – magic weapon / break (APG), crafter’s curse (APG), crafter’s fortune (APG) / shadow weapon (UM) / abundant ammunition (UC), jury-rig (UC)
2 – make whole / instant armor (APG) / masterwork transformation (UM)
3 – magic vestment
4 – greater magic weapon, minor creation / phantom chariot (UC)
5 – wall of stone, major creation, fabricate
6 – animate objects
7 – refuge / rampart (APG) / control construct (UM) / arcane cannon (UC)
8 – greater spell immunity / call construct (UM)
9 – gate / wooden phalanx (UM)