GM Blood's Age of Worms in Golarion #2

Game Master David James Olsen

Oh one more thing. While in Diamond Point with your down time, Marzena has taught you/given you the recipes for two items. You need worm paste made from the dead worms like in that egg and the undead creature you fought (which you have enough to make a few of these items.)

I also added these to the Campaign Tab

As a note, I will be at CarnageCon this weekend, so my posting is likely to be light.

Here's a question. Can Deadly Aim be used with my bombs (only for initial damage of course, not splash).

Dryn, the description for Deadly Aim would say otherwise because of the bit I've bolded here:

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all ranged attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on all ranged damage rolls. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

Though you *could* bypass that restriction using the explosive missile discovery? :)

Hmm, didn't look in deadly aim's description actually, lol. That's a good idea on the discovery though!

Justin was AC22 last round (+1 haste -2lunge)
AC24 this round. So he is 70/76 hp.

Blah... even when I hit well, I feel like I suck.

We all make mistakes. After finishing an epic bad guy for an incredibly difficult third party D&D scenario, we were surprised the encounter wasn't as bad as we thought.

Then the DM realized he missed the bad guy had fireshield x4 as an epic ability. All PCs were supposed to take 4x damage that they dealt to him.

The adventure was Lichlords by Lynn Sellers, an incredibly difficult adventure for 6-8 characters of 12-16 level.

As an FYI - I will be on vacation for the next week. I should have internet access most days, but will be unlikely to post other than in the early morning and late evening. Occasional posting by phone is possible, but it will be minimal.

Not that I think it matters after rolls like that, even without the crit, the 3 PA hits are nasty as all heck and I'm thinking Justin's likely hit the thing hard enough that he's doing lethal damage either way....

However, as I was reveling in all the damage inflicted against the nasty things and not us, well, I think Justin's bite damage should only be d3+5 (+7 while smiting, of course) -- as I recall, the natural weapon rules state that secondary attacks only do 1/2 STR and all natural weapons are downgraded to secondary when using a weapon... So that would be +2 (str) +2 (PA) +1 (prayer) = 5?

Still, either way, I'm quite happy to not make Justin mad at Kilthan... and that Kilthan's not evil.

Kilthan, I believe you are right. Also while not explicitly stated you cannot do non lethal with a smite, it seems like you should have to do lethal damage.

I will adjust future bites as you are correct. I used the correct PA modifier of 1 for 1 but not the half for strength.

Well, if you can't smite nonlethally, poor chimera.

I do not see why one could not do a non-lethal smite. What if a paladin is sent out to capture an evil enemy, but an enemy that is wanted for questioning about something.

In that case I would think they would go out and capture it, and could use non lethal in normal attacks. But in my mind smite evil invokes powerful blows to stop evil, not to knock it out.

I guess the Half-Orc paladin archetype (redeemer) solidifies it in my mind. I read it's paladin ability as a special exception to smite so they can do non lethal in a smite.

Merciful Smite (Su): At 1st level, when a redeemer chooses to smite a creature, she can have all of her attacks against the target deal nonlethal damage. She does not take the normal –4 attack roll penalty for using a lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage. She cannot use this ability to deal nonlethal damage to outsiders with the evil subtype, evil-aligned dragons, or undead creatures (these creatures take lethal damage from her smite). This otherwise works like and replaces the standard paladin's smite evil.

I have no problem with Justin choosing mercy against the creature, but then he wouldn't be smiting it.

Sorry, my comment about lethal damage was that I though Justin would be into roll-over (you know, when non-lethal damage exceeds max HP thing) -- wasn't thinking about the smite.

Every day you learn something is a good day. I agree the redeemer archetype solidifies that smite evil=lethal.

Have a Merry Christmas and safe travels. We leave for the big family Christmas the morning of the 24th, but I have already put my games on hiatus to allow weekend travel.

Thank you GM Blood for such a rewarding game. Not many seventh level characters from 1st on these boards!

Thank you everyone for participating in this game and being regular posters. Things have gotten pretty busy for me lately so hopefully this year things will settle down some. In any case it is my desire to take this thing all the way to the end, and I hope everyone can make it as well.

Let's take a break until Jan 6th for the holidays and we'll pick up with you arriving at Eligos's door!

Sounds good, GM.

And all the best for the holidays to everyone.

Party on - just not too much partying.

Sounds good to me as well! This has been a helluva holiday season and I cannot wait for it to be done with (c'mon January!!)

I wanted to wish a belated Happy Holidays and the Best in the New Year.

Looking forward to continuing!

Me too! (To both things Anala said..)

Happy gnu year. White stuff falling from the sky. The intellectual geniuses who they call "meteorologists" are calling for between 2 and 18 inches. Good thing they are able to narrow it down so well. We have about 2 inches so far and if it keeps up like it is now for 24 hours as that are thinking we should have about 4 feet before we are done. My guess is 12+, but who knows.

While I enjoy my last few days off (Go back on Tuesday 7th) I am preparing myself now for another heart attack Packer game on Sunday.

After this post I will be sending out an email to my Monday night group canceling my Monday night game as that day the high temperature will be -6 degrees with a low of -19 (Not the windchill). I'm not heading outside that day, much less make everyone drive here!

Then I will not tell you how hot it is in Melbourne FL.

UCF, the local college, pulled a big upset over Baylor. They built a medical school and a research center. They may be headed for the big time--another top notch Florida university. We are blessed with many.

Happy new year! Looking forward to more excitement in the Age of Worms.

I think it is ironic that they allow Payton's backward pass to stand as a forward pass to give him the record. He did sit out the whole second half, so he could have thrown another seven yard pass. I think it is an example of what a good DM would do to fudge the results.

Well almost at the end of my 18 day break from work (Sunday and Monday left). The rest and relaxation have been good. PBP wise I have updated some of the things I use for this game to make things go a little smoother (In two years I have learned some tricks but haven't really updated my notes for some reason)

I hope you guys are ready to rev back up and experience what is coming next for you!

Thanks again everyone for a great game!

It has been fun, I look forward to what comes next.

Letting everyone know my boss is in town this week (surprise, surprise!) and it looks like I'll be working some pretty long days all week. I'll try to get posts in when I can, but will be tough. I apologize for the short notice I also suffered from. Please bot me in combat.

If the crowd situation still looks dodgy after the wee speeches... Tobar's next try will be to turn a Bluff attempt back on the merchant to make him look the guilty party.

Back now. Sorry about last week all, my boss's visit came as a surprise.

Welcome back! I bombed the bad good for ya

I see that! Just got caught up in Gameplay. Wow, a lot happened this week in here! Really really sorry I missed a lot of it. I tried to get some posts in late Friday night but it seems like every time I log in the forums have been having issues. Hopefully this will be the last surprise at work for awhile.

As an FYI, I may have limited ability to post until Saturday. I will probably get some time in, but will be on the road for work and have a very busy schedule which is likely to greatly cut into my posting time.

Another instance where the sleep hex would be anticlimactic.

I am definitely banning it if I ever allow non core material.

I actually don't have it any more. GM Blood and I discussed it and I switched to another feat, Harrowed, which allows me to qualify for the Harrower PrC and eliminates one of the more unbalanced parts of the game (sort of like the Zen Archer monk - lets give him all the feats necessary to make a uber archer, then give him extra attacks, then give him mobility and a super AC, and add in the ability to make AoO with his feet and knees even while wielding the bow).

I noticed and approve.

I think you had to convince me!!! Being caught next to an Axe was all it took!

In my home game, I've found the sleep hex isn't too unbalancing -- not only are there a number of things immune to magical sleep (undead, elves, dragons, constructs, etc.) -- but, more importantly, sleep is a condition that's relatively easily removed by creatures with allies, and once you've been hexed, you're immune for 24 hours. (And, really, I find that PF encounter design pretty much requires almost no single-foe encounters due to the action economy).

Which isn't to say that there haven't been times where I've hated it ... the fact is that a first level at-will power essentially removes a non-immune combatant is pretty nasty (because there's no level cap on it and the DC just keeps improving).

I do agree with the assessment of the Zen Archer, though.

Add in on my list of not likes:

Standard Action summoning (very broken)
With my home game, finding alchemist bombs are feeling overpowered to me - Touch attacks, side effects, range.
Sleep hex always felt iffy to me to the point where I wouldn't take it in a game I played. This game pretty much clinched it in my mind and they even made their save vs it a good amount of times!
Some of the style stuff is feeling almost too good.
The spell cacophonous call is also not allowed anymore in our home games.

As an aside, doppplegangers are immune to sleep! ;)

I'm thinking my next home Pathfinder game doing something like E6/8 where there is a quicker level cap, then maybe towards the end do some higher level stuff with some mythic levels.

I'd want a more greek hero kind of feel where the gods are much more involved with the common people and interfere positively and negatively often.

I'd like to do the variant magic item economy like I did with my Rappan Athuk here and/or do something similar to Kirthfinder's mojo (where you don't buy items, they get better as you level. Also you try to fit it in the story, like where my dwarf fighter made Plate Armor out of a broken forge that had a connection to the plane of Fire. It retained some of the warmth and it also has endure elements as a power connected.)

As you probably can tell looking at the games I have started on the boards I like to tinker and put a twist on each game I run. I usually have at least one unique thing for my home games. (When I ran Crimson Throne I removed alignment so all the NPCs could be a little greyer.)

Anyways....carry on!

Most the style stuff does not appear that bad, although the Crane Style is iffy (of course I have a character using this style in very effective ways as GM Blood will tell you).

I think it is like Zen Archer for me,Maybe not overpowered, but clearly stronger choices. So much so that I think about taking a level in Monk of many styles in many of the characters I build, for a free style feat and/or the ability to get unarmed strike and more style feats later. Also Maneuver Master is another choice once again for unarmed strike and the ability to get certain style feats and the free maneuver with out needing Combat Expertise and the extra maneuver during a full round action.

Again, maybe not overpowered, but I think they are very strong int heir options...not that that is always a bad thing...

Another interesting combo is Cleric 1/Monk9/Brother of the Seal10 - gives you almost full monk attacks and damage, and you can grab Guided Hand to use Wisdom for attacks (and Guided Hand(mythic) if using Mythic rules for Wis damage). In addition, if you are using Mythic rules, you can grab Titan Strike which increases your damage by 1 size category, as does Level 7 of the Brother of the Seal. In the end, at level 14 or so, depending when you went to the PrC, you would have a medium monk with 5 attacks doing 4d6 or so damage and using Wisdom for AC, attacks and damage.

It took me a while to get used to alchemists -- I think the bigger problem isn't the bomb mechanic itself which, while nasty, is energy damage and easy enough to resist (unlike sneak attack damage, which follows the same progression) -- it's the fact that it bypasses SR (which makes sense within the rules of what is and isn't SR-able, but it rather messes with the balance of things), and the discoveries that allow "stack on" effects on bombs -- tanglefoot, for instance, is especially nasty since the DC keeps going up and isn't linked to actually doing damage.

And yeah, the whole "overpowered" vs "not" argument is a hard one to have -- and it seems to come up more and more as things are added..

Ultimately, I think we're just seeing power creep -- something we've seen with every iteration of the game as more and more gets strapped onto the original frame -- we keep seeing new options being created and they're strong/very good -- which is to say, clearly superior to what existed before...

And, worse, I find that increasingly more and more of the new designed options may be okay on their own, but there's no consideration of how they combine with others -- as if nobody would ever multiclass. (And the shortened timeframes on playtesting the new content isn't helping).

Ok, I'll stop shaking a stick and telling kids to get off my lawn now.

The saves part is nasty as they can quickly skyrocket, even more so when a mutagen is taken. Tanglefoot has a good debuff and very effective. Elemental bombs can be resisted, but Force bombs however are even nastier as there isn't anything you can do about it and it knocks you prone.

Like I said, not sure it is overpoweredness (maybe it is), but when the party is 16th level and the alchemist can hit pretty much everything with every attack except if he rolls a 1, and has fire, force, tanglefoot, poison, blind....

I still think that taking out dragons with Dex draining spells is the way to go - Ray of Exhaustion and/or Fleshworm Infestation are great ones as long as you can beat the SR and they miss their saving throws. With like a 6 Dex for a Wyrm, it is one Ray of Exhaustion save missed and goodbye dragon. Heck, who needs power creep, sometimes the simplest spells are the most effective.

On the plus side, they're small missiles and stopped by Wall of Wind or other, similar, defenses (heck, even Entropic Shield gives a 20% miss chance). And, only one modifier per bomb (which is less helpful when the alchemist can rapid bomb and try to inflict each of his conditions -- certainly the case at level 16).

And yes, Force is the big bad one -- which is why it's the smaller die, but still.

Flying opponents are also good here, because the range on bombs is still pretty low -- unless he uses Explosive Missile, but then it's not touch AC anymore.

Kilthan, true but it seems cheap if I have every opponent start having wind wall or entropic shield. Eh, its all good. The thing is at the point we are in our home game, 16th, is usually where we end up stopping if we even get that high to begin with, so I imagine the last 4 levels are going to seem crazy with what they can do.

But that's the think, Aara, you need a failed save. A level 16 bomb alchemist who takes rapid shot as a feat and the fast bombs discovery gets to hurl 4 bombs at the Ancient White in a single round, vs. his touch AC of 8.

Assuming a dex of 22 (thanks to +6 from his mutagen) and no other bonuses, they all hit on any non-1.

Average damage on the 8d6 is 28 -- and by level 16, the alchemist has 22 int (safe bet), so it's 8d6 + 6, or 34.... but but whites are vulnerable to cold, so it's 51 per bomb.

And, in addition to the immediate 204 points damage, there are fun secondary effects.

For instance, all of those bombs could be "sticky", so that they each inflict 14 points of damage the following round (+50% makes that 21, so there's 82 more damage for the white -- total of 286 which exceeds the 'stock' hp of 283)... and sticky bombs can still have side effects like blind and tanglefoot.

Myself, in that situation, I'd probably make at least one of them a sticky inferno bomb, so that one of the bombs also generates an incendiary cloud around the dragon for an extra 6d6 damage.

Now, to be fair, you're a little less good against a non-white because you can't do the incendiary trick, but you can still have sticky frost, sonic or shock bombs.

And, GM Blood, I see your point, but I think it depends on the opponents. .. by level 16, you're facing people with access to divination magic who were likely smart enough to live long enough to be pretty high level themselves (or otherwise powerful, ancient dragons, balor, etc, etc.) For instance, if I knew a level 16 alchemist was coming after me, I'd probably be keeping a deflection bonus to my AC up all the time (since it affects touch), if not resisting elements and/or contingency-protected, etc, etc. And besides, many of those defenses are what you'd use anyway (mirror image, blink, displacement, etc.)

Of course, White Dragons know Resist Energy(CL9) (so there goes the first 20 damage from each bomb, probably before the Vulnerability increase since the spell is eliminating the damage and if the damage never got to the dragon, then there would be nothing to multiply). So, the bombs are doing 14 damage, 21 with the bonus. In addition, the dragon knows Displacement. So each bomb has a 50% miss chance. Thus, assuming no nat-1, you are actually going to do 42 damage with no additional damage the next round due to the Resist 20.

Also, unless the dragon is asleep (which is tough since they do not sleep), the dragon is flying and strafing the party from 50' with its flight speed of 200', after which the alchemist has to catch up, or ready his second bomb.

Note - I have never played an alchemist or a character above level 10, so I might be missing something.

Dryn's getting all nervous here, what with this alchemist talk....

In my home group, we use the "Don't be an A*****e" rule. We really don't ban anything, but if something seems game-breaking, we'll talk it out. As an example, weapon cords. Most of us laughed them off as being too ridiculous when we saw them. One person was going to use them, and we called him out as being an a*****e and he dropped it. Of course that's easier in a home game. I think most of these guys I've been gaming with for over a decade (two or more for a couple of them).

Also if someone ends up with a combo that's just game breaking, same thing. We talk it out and will change it up if we feel it's necessary. Right now I'm doing a tiefling gunslinger (musket master) in Skull and SHackles and we've been talking about some of the more game-breaking stuff I've pulled off. We've already decided if I played anywhere near optimal it'd be bad. I've already asked if the group wanted me to switch out or weaken my character somehow. Thus far I've already ruined one encounter by blowing his head off before the boats were even close. So I try to avoid doing the optimal thing in most situations and the player's are fine with it. Plus it adds a bit of fun to the game when I decide to spend a round pulling out my sword and going melee with my massive 10 strength. I take pride in my three melee kills!

I do see the problems mentioned though. The reason we implement our rule in my home game is we don't always see the OPness of our characters and do it so we police each other. We also do it if someone's doing something that's just plain not effective. Fast bombs is definitely one of those things I was considering, but I do understand how it could be a bit broken.