Balancer |
Oh nameless high cleric, you're always such a laugh.
Catches up on the thread
Right so that ended anticlimactically, oh well. In case anyone is wondering I allowed the caster to know the duration of their timestop since in table games I play at DM's allow casters to know that. If there's any objections please let me know.
So that's Round one to the Caster. Round two, if everyone is willing to go for it.
Tarantula |
Rules question:
On escaping or leaving the maze, the subject reappears where it had been when the maze spell was cast.
I don't think wish would get around this.
The only listed exception would be plane shift, which wouldn't guarantee he gets back in the arena.
Edit: Posted too soon. Transport travelers option looks like it works.
Tarantula |
I'm a little confused on the wall too.
The wall blocks line of effect, so no spell or effect can pass through the wall, but it does not block line of sight. Magic items or spell effects with a higher caster level than yours are unaffected by the wall of suppression. The wall does not affect artifacts, anything stemming from the direct action of a deity, or similarly powerful sorts of magic.
Blocks line of effect, but spell effects of a higher level can pass through. To me, that means spells which have the Effect line, such as Rays. As is, I don't think you can target Theo with Possession because there is no LOE to do so.
Whats our GM say?
andreww |
Line of Effect is a term from the magic chapter which relates to more than just rays. See HERE.
Interestingly, Possession requires neither line of effect nor line of sight.
Tarantula |
Line of Effect is a term from the magic chapter which relates to more than just rays. See HERE.
Right. Many spells require line of effect to select a target. I read the wall of suppression as blocking line of effect for ALL spells, but spells which are of the Effect type can go through provided they are a higher level than the wall.
Interestingly, Possession requires neither line of effect nor line of sight.
That settles that. No LOE needed, no problem.
When you transfer your soul upon casting, your body appears to be dead.
It appears the wizard has died, do I win? /kidding
MichaelCullen |
Regardless, though as long as my spells have a higher caster level than the wall of suppression, they are unaffected by the wall. Because I lowered my caster level before casting the wall, all of my other spells are unaffected by the wall completely.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
Tarantula |
Regardless, though as long as my spells have a higher caster level than the wall of suppression, they are unaffected by the wall. Because I lowered my caster level before casting the wall, all of my other spells are unaffected by the wall completely.
magic chapter CRB wrote:You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
I understand your reading, and why you did it that way, but disagree. Magic items with a CL greater than the wall, or spell EFFECTS cast greater than the wall, are unaffected. I read this as:
Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present.
If the spell is not an Effect, but needs Line Of Effect, then it would be stopped. Since possession does not require LOE, and it is a higher CL than the wall, it goes through anyway.
Most targetted spells require LOE, and would be stopped even if they were a higher CL (a CL 21 Hold Person for example would not have LOE to the target, and could not be cast).
nennafir |
Yeah, I'm not super confident about that win. When Wiz Bang Mazed himself after the spell turning, by a strict reading of the rules he did leave the arena, as does anyone who teleports, as teleportation requires an instant in the astral plane.
+1 If you are mazed, you have left the arena. Can there be any doubt about this? So anyone who has been mazed has lost the match.
MichaelCullen |
"Arena: 200ft by 200ft by 200ft, leaving the area is grounds for DQ"
Its grounds for DQ, Theodwin was being quite gracious. I don't think it should be a straight loss for Theodwin. Wiz Bang (my sample PC) was negligent in forgetting to put up spell turning as well. Theodwin deserves a good bit of credit here.
MichaelCullen |
That said, there may need to be some more clarification on what "leaves the arena" means. Does an extra dimensional space count such as Maze? What if someone gets stuffed in a portable hole, or falls in a pit spell? Those are extra dimensional spaces as well.
What if someone teleports or D-Doors? They travel through the astral plane to do so, they leave the arena, but just for an instant.
By wording it as "grounds for DQ" there is some room for interpretation. I'm just curious where that line is.
Tarantula |
Right. I think that since maze is a duration that (until you wished out of it) almost always returns you to the same spot, it was a great call to get rid of me to let yourself get whatever buffs you wanted up. The reflect was just a bonus that it happened to you. The downside is, even if you went in a maze, you could theoretically spend your actions buffing yourself, THEN wish yourself out.
Bob Bob Bob |
If you're making rules on extradimensional spaces, I'd suggest "Intentionally leaving the arena is grounds for disqualification".
Mazing the opponent shouldn't be an automatic win because that's just boring. It becomes "Did you remember to get a Ring of Spell Turning and activate it? No? You lose". And then there's the Otherworldly Kimono, which as far as I can tell doesn't even allow SR or Spell Turning (the only reference to Maze is the space it generates). So whoever wins initiative sucks in the other person and declares victory! That's... boring.
MichaelCullen |
As far as blindsight and blindsense go, it depends on how you get them. If they are from an item, then they are probably block by the "all devices" clause. But if you can get them by a supernatural or extradinary abity they should work. Or if you can get them via a non divination spell (miracle and wish don't work either, as called out in the spell).
As far as blindsense goes, it could be very useful, simply knowing where the enemy is opens up many options, including moving over or shooting arrows into that area.
The best options for getting past mindblank/invisibility:
Non divination spells - such as echolocation
Supernatural/extraordinary abilities - such as dragon disciple's blindsense
Lynceus |
It's an attempt to keep WBL manageable. If you only need to worry about winning one fight, then you could do a lot more if you didn't need to buy permanent items.
Generally this benefits the caster more than the martial, since many permanent items mimic the benefits of spells, many of which they can easily have pre-cast.
The only way a martial is going to reliably win in this sort of contest is at the levels where spellcaster resources are sharply limited. You're fighting the very system itself here, which gives higher level spellcasters more and more powerful resources, and where at some point it was decided that magic can do just about anything you can imagine.
In my opinion, a 7th-level caster can set up a scenario where simply staying in the arena will erode the martial's hit points and make themselves virtually immune to attacks. If the caster only has to worry about ONE encounter, you will see shenanigans that will probably never happen in actual play.
And really, if the only way a martial character can fight a spellcaster is with magic items, which themselves are based on magic spells...shouldn't we just concede the point that magic is too powerful and pervasive in the game? You're spending money to mimic the powers of a caster- how much money do they have to spend to mimic the powers of a non-caster?