Cуровую зиму |
The Cardinal keeps Quickened Hold Person around and Empowered Flame Strike around ...
To impress the level 5 toadies.
Hey I resemble that remark.
-
There was no way to plan that interaction between Edmin, the Judge, the cardinal and corn.
It still came out perfectly.
The Judge putting his hands in his pockets, kicking dirt on the ugly former precious, which 'he never wanted all the long' is the perfect mental picture.
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
Did we level through the end of this chapter? Was just starting to think about my third level spell...
Of course the question begs...are you going to continue into the next chapter of this campaign?
Bref |
Dmdm in my jade regent I am allowing players to start as a prestige class and I am waiving pre reqs. I read your post on prc classes and thought you might be interested in the idea
Of course your welcome to play
I know you will say no but I like to keep tempting you
Jax Naismith |
I feel like towers and working alongside the Eigth was mentioned by someone in the past, probably Irin. I also feel we were given a warning..something about how we would have to kill the Eigth but killing them would also be a bad thing. And something about some of the 7th Knot still being around in there...let me see what I can try to dredge up.
Cуровую зиму |
Irin's readings are on the recruitment thread but I'll post it here as well, I am not sure if the others heard this though.
"You want to know what is the greatest threat to your rising within the hierarchy of Asmodeus. Very well."
"I cannot give you an answer to that question."
"Long-term threats to your ascent. Here's the first one: the Seventh Knot. Hardest-forged of them all, the Cardinal's most challenging work. Two failed attempts. But the final, successful version is... magnificent.
"They're going to the Dark Tower. And one way or another, if you survive that long, so are you: either to help them, or to replace them if they fail. If the Seventh succeeds, you're in danger. If they fail, you're in deadly danger. Alive, they're a menace to you. Dead, they're worse. If they're alive, never trust them. If they're dead... they're still a threat.
"Them, their work, their minions, anyone associated with them, anything to do with them. The cards showed no redeeming qualities, no mitigation. For you, it's all bad.
"Beware the Seventh Knot."
"Second threat: Elise Zadaria. To you in particular, Zimu. But she'll cheerfully kill the rest of your Knot along the way. You know how she gets, yes? She's ambitious. You all are, of course, but her current situation is just fanning the flames.
"I'm very sorry to tell you that she's already a move ahead of you. She's obtained something of yours... something of you, more likely. A lock of hair, some fingernail clippings, something like that. Do I need to spell this out? She's not powerful enough to kill you with it -- yet -- but she can watch you, and before long she'll be able to do more. And she'll leverage her advantage, as a player who has taken one piece will seek to capture more, or as a swordsman strikes against an opponent's injured arm.
"Your paths are going to run together for a time... quite closely together. You'll both walk into the shadow of the Dark Tower. You'll count the days together. You'll be as close as eye and hand. For a time. Then, either you kill her, or she kills you. If you don't recover the advantage, likely it's you who will fall.
"How to recover it? I don't have much there. But there's a green book, written by a man who lives now but will be dead then. Take it. Read it."
"Third threat: the Son."
"I can't... I can't see the Son. He stinks of the light, but it's not the light that hides him. His face, his name... they tremble just out of reach. Maddening!"
"I can tell you very little, except that he is greater than his father. And he, too, will come to the Dark Tower. All the threads run together there, all the cards point to it. It is the axis upon which this age will turn.
"Beware the Seventh. Beware Elise Zadaria. And above all, beware the Son."
Jax Naismith |
Okay, it looks like I was right.
Irin mentions a "Dark Tower"
"Long-term threats to your ascent. Here's the first one: the Seventh Knot. Hardest-forged of them all, the Cardinal's most challenging work. Two failed attempts. But the final, successful version is... magnificent.
"They're going to the Dark Tower. And one way or another, if you survive that long, so are you: either to help them, or to replace them if they fail. If the Seventh succeeds, you're in danger. If they fail, you're in deadly danger. Alive, they're a menace to you. Dead, they're worse. If they're alive, never trust them. If they're dead... they're still a threat.
"Them, their work, their minions, anyone associated with them, anything to do with them. The cards showed no redeeming qualities, no mitigation. For you, it's all bad.
"Beware the Seventh Knot."
The Seventh Knot yet lives. I vote we DO NOT tell the Cardinal anything about this. At all. There's no reason we have to. We know that the Seventh have failed and that we are thus in "deadly danger." And "dead they're worse." We don't know if they are dead or alive, either way they are a threat and we cannot trust them.
My thoughts: They are working for the Mother in truth. They are demon-lovers not Devil-worshipers. I vote we annhilate them upon finding sight. They approach peacefully, we butcher them instantly.
"I'm very sorry to tell you that she's already a move ahead of you. She's obtained something of yours... something of you, more likely. A lock of hair, some fingernail clippings, something like that. Do I need to spell this out? She's not powerful enough to kill you with it -- yet -- but she can watch you, and before long she'll be able to do more. And she'll leverage her advantage, as a player who has taken one piece will seek to capture more, or as a swordsman strikes against an opponent's injured arm.
"Your paths are going to run together for a time... quite closely together. You'll both walk into the shadow of the Dark Tower. You'll count the days together. You'll be as close as eye and hand. For a time. Then, either you kill her, or she kills you. If you don't recover the advantage, likely it's you who will fall.
"How to recover it? I don't have much there. But there's a green book, written by a man who lives now but will be dead then. Take it. Read it."
Thoughts: We must finish scouring the tower.
DM, Did Jax find a green book in the commander's room? If not, we must immediately scour the hermit's home, the church, Mad Martin's home, EVERYTHING. I bet the book is here as it is a man who is now dead. I don't know how it will help us against Elise..but we must hit her before she hits us.
"I can't... I can't see the Son. He stinks of the light, but it's not the light that hides him. His face, his name... they tremble just out of reach. Maddening!"
"I can tell you very little, except that he is greater than his father. And he, too, will come to the Dark Tower. All the threads run together there, all the cards point to it. It is the axis upon which this age will turn.
"Beware the Seventh. Beware Elise Zadaria. And above all, beware the Son."
The Son...hm. Possibly an inquisitor hunting the demons still? And he has a father who is important..Cimu! you have the book of great nobles, make a note to remind me to have Jax tell her to look up the Commander and all his men's history. Do any of the leaders have family?
...The son...ancient families and pine..I bet its the commander's son.
Jax Naismith |
Jax's questions of the day:
Why does Cimu keep smelling pine?
Random Theory about Demons & The Mother [Notebook of stuff!]
Jax's sword, random dreaming tower men in pain and Cimu's memories know that the demon cult is still a problem. The Warble Fly is their sign. Female references and mentions of a "she" let me think that Sister Serafina has been used somehow.
What does this have to do with the Commander, hazelnut trees, the inquisitor, the Cardinal and the Son at the Dark Tower?
Bref |
I predict that he will get on with Dren, not like Edmin or Judge much and enjoy Zimu for her mind…seriously he is a really smart fella
Jax Naismith |
Jax is smart!
Agreed on murdering every single one of the 7th knot. Nothing redeeming about them whatsoever.
On the "Son" note, I just realized the Cardinal also mentioned the "Sons" of the Pale Horseman. It is possible Irin's dream is referring to the daemon itself or is referring to another one of these things. Or is referring to the Commander's son(if he has one). Or something completely different.
Bref |
oooo Jax, Jax will be his favorite I think…now Jax may or may not like him...
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
Looks like we might finally be bringing Jax around to our way of thinking...he always seemed such a nice boy before he started hanging out with those other 9th knot kids.
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
The 7th knot might have their uses, we will have to figure out if they are a threat or how they can help us.
I am guessing that no one reports to anyone else between the knots but we appear to be getting the lead mission of actually finding and releasing this Daemon...I am guessing the other knot will not be pleased.
Jax Naismith |
Irin's prophecies say specifically that they are an incredibly, deadly danger to us and that there is "nothing redeeming" about them. Once it comes up IC, Jax will mention his plans to murder them immediately.
He's not evil...he's just terrified of anything a seer says is a "deadly danger" and plans to react accordingly.
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
They may have the same prophecy about us...thus they are self fulfilling...lol
Its an interesting question, without the prophecy would we even be worried about each other?
Cуровую зиму |
Edmin's attitude towards Talingarde's nobility ranges from "dislike" through "intense dislike" to "murderous hatred". Since you only vaguely know of Baron Vandermir, probably you default to "dislike". Knowledge (nobility) for you contains a certain element of 'understanding who I really want to kill most'.
DM is a master puppeteer and story teller.
That much is obvious.
But after that is said and done, and despite the fact that he shows such love in crafting ways to kill us, he actually is quite the comedian. He really is.
Actually that goes for everyone.
From Bref's in your face poop jokes to the Judge's dry wit to Jax/Dren/Xen continual boy band banter, I have to say I really love that part of the game.
And even Grumblejack plays a great straight man ... Ogre.
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
Speaking of a Nalfeshnee, my Serpents Skull group tabletop group just finished the Serpents Skull AP after 2.5 years on Wednesday night.
Near the end in one encounter they fought a Maralith, a Nalfeshnee, and three Hezrou demons that tried to ambush them in a hallway. To be honest I thought they would give the party a run for their money...I was sadly mistaken.
They are 4 17th level characters and 1 15th level cohort. Even though Paizo says that characters are 1 CR less than their level, buffed up I would have to say they are even. The two CR 19 bosses they fought at the end...I was hoping for an Epic battle and he came close to killing one character but in the end they were just overmatched.
Fighters with 50 AC and +16 willpower saves just don't get hit enough or damage enough to outpace Mass Heal. Every time I would hurt a character badly or afflict him with something, there was the mass heal...I was just a little disappointed it wasn't a little more...Epic. Note to self, 17th level characters fully buffed can railroad a CR 19 creature. I won't make the same mistake for Skulls and Shackles.
That is the next AP I plan to run in about 3-4 months. Someone else is running a 2nd campaign, Wrath, that we start in two weeks. Playing my first Monk ever.
Judge Tohram Quasangi |
Sounds like fun. I need to play tabletop again at some point. Other than with my kids - 7 and 9 - I have not played real tabletop in over 20 years.
Jax Naismith |
At higher levels, CR is a really bad way of figuring out appropriate combats unfortunately. Some monsters of the same CR are vastly different in their ability to hurt a party. Its why I have a hard time DMing Pathfinder/ 3.5. I tend to want challenging fights while not restricting players from optimizing, rather encouraging it, but it takes a lot more effort/time to craft a good encounter compared to say, 4e or 13th age, where you can take XP or numbers and make an encounter that fits generally better than CR-appropriate fights do.
Douglas Muir 406 |
It's part of why I'm meh about high level play. It tends more and more to become a battle of glass cannons, and the path between "PCs destroy all before them" and "TPK" narrows down to a razor's edge.
Also-also, from a DM's point of view, keeping track of PC capabilities gets kinda challenging.
Also-also-also, buffs are (IMO) a soft spot in 3.x / PFRPG generally, and this gets worse at high levels. If you're 15th level or up, there's a really huge difference between the combat with buffs up and the combat without.
Judge Tohram Quasangi |
Well, it all depends on the dice too. I had a 6th level fighter I had been playing for over 2 years get critted by a boss with a great axe yesterday - 76 hp of damage later, she is nothing but paste.
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
When they get to that level the buffs last so long and you can easily apply them on again with all of the money/slots you have. You can only remove so many with Greater Dispel where the action opportunity overrides other actions they should be doing (I finally have their spells off of them...wait I have 5 hit points!).
I am with you with the higher levels, it seemed about 15th as you said that they started rolling over everything in the AP as written. I did buff creatures, add extra monsters, so on, but they still steam-rolled most of the last chapter.
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
Well, it all depends on the dice too. I had a 6th level fighter I had been playing for over 2 years get critted by a boss with a great axe yesterday - 76 hp of damage later, she is nothing but paste.
Yeah but when the 17th level fighter has 266 hit points and a 51 AC, you only get hit by crits and they typically don't confirm :]. Plus his armor has moderate Fortification and he has a feat to stops crits...lol.
You think at that point I will just dominate him...then he has a +16 willpower save, protection from evil going, improved Iron will for another save, the Ranger has Rangers luck just in case he fails that save and two characters have greater dispel to disrupt it if that fails...and so on and so on...
Judge Tohram Quasangi |
Well, I have never gotten near that level on my pbp games. Level 10 is my highest, and that campaign has really petered out as the DM has been posting very infrequently.
Douglas Muir 406 |
There are ways around this -- the humble Grease spell can be a nuisance into very high levels, if the PCs aren't constantly rocking Fly -- but, yeah, it's definitely a thing.
Also, at these levels "attack the character, not the character sheet" begins to become more of a thing. That's much more effective and interesting if you have players who roleplay, mind -- it doesn't work as well against powergamers and munchkins.
Jax Naismith |
I like optimizing, and encourage players to do the same. But like you said, its a lot easier to challenge someone when they don't have a list of 200 spells with a half-dozen buffs on them.
I tend to discourage full caster's in my games (Sorc, witch, cleric, oracle, wizard) as well as fighters, cavaliers, rogues and monks. I prefer if the party consists of inquisitors, alchemists, magi, bards and summoners or tome of battle-type classes. Someone who can turn invisible, throw lightning spells, blind his enemies and enchant a magic sword is more interesting than someone who casts a high DC AOE spell that shuts down 1/2 the enemies instantly or the multi-arrow firing warrior who kills one enemy per turn but can't do anything but shoot arrows for damage.
It also helps with the balancing, I find.
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
Everyone was rocking Air Walk, Freedom of movement, Death Ward, Life Bubble...I thought about throwing Disjunction at them...but that would be playing to kill them and wasn't available to the enemies...so I just went with it.
It was still a good ending, just not the Epic battle I was hoping for.
Bref |
Don't be a hater!
But I learned my lesson I did not make a melee type this time
Dren of the Dark Tapestry |
SWEET! Level adjustment:
+1 lvl Paladin
Hit points: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (7) + 2 = 9
Favored class bonus: Extra Spell
+1 BAB, +1 to all save
Skills:
Planes +1 (Bonus)
Points 6
Diplomacy
Know Religion
Sense Motive
Spellcraft
Stealth
UMD
Spells:
Cure Serious Wounds (Bonus)
Tongues (Bonus)
working on it... (chosen) should have it in the next day.
Favored Class Bonus Spell: Darkness