A couple of things to keep in mind with being thrown, you take the damage noted and I would expect you'd land prone, though I suppose an acrobatics check to avoid being prone wouldn't be out of line. We will be watching, as this is definitely in our relm of accomplishing, and the distance you can be thrown is quite impressive. Kamakazi dwarves anyone?
I believe Nelly only moved him, rather than throwing him per se. Hence she's still grappling him, he's not prone, and took no damage from it.
I was talking about an aether elemental throw.
Prone isn't a big deal when flying but damage will certainly be tracked if he gets thrown.
Aye, I said the elemental would probably try something.
Alas, it's all good if it simply attempts to 'pull him free', that is, do a telekinetic maneuver against the grapple.
But your mention of "flying" implies he attempts to fling him back into the magic zone, where flight would resume.
Considering that a prone grappled mage was able to stop Nelly dead in her tracks, I would very much believe that if he was attempting to pass through her in such a manner, he would also need to do an acrobatics-check to avoid getting stopped in his tracks.
A telekinetic throw does not remove obstacles, and it would actually be hard to pull off in a way that pulls him free from her mouth, then effectively reverses direction to sling him past her.
Also, getting flung is not exactly a gentle movement, so the +10 modifier for full speed probably applies - making the target CMD for the Acrobatics 41 - or 31 if it does not, but he also needs to make the check for leaving her threatened area or she'll attempt to maul him right there.
(That is, if he even gets a chance to avoid her. Otherwise that 30 extra damage from the AoO's for leaving threatened and entering her space, happening while he is still in the AMF, against an old Elf(with a total of -5 Con(2 race, 3 age)).
Otherwise the blockage does not make sense any more. The Strenght 30 raging Barbarian that dumped acrobatics cannot pass through the door because a though Goblin stands in the doorframe, but he can ask his Strenght 20 buddy to throw him through the door and it's all good, the Goblin helplessly stands aside not doing anything.
Disclaimer: Aye, you are making me nervous. Thats why this post exists. I won't object to decisions you make, but I will remember them and adjust tactics ;)
15 ft ceiling so mage gets thrown mostly up and a little bit west. I think there's nothing controversial about that.
Still moving through threatened squares. Could be a great way to extract an elf scout in the future. Mel weighs less than 200lbs right? Just thinking...
What I take issue with is that it effectively combines a action to ungrapple with an attempt to bull-rush him through others in a single check/action.
I did originally want to place him further inside the corridor, because I wanted to eliminate that option by making the angle almost impossible.
Regardless: Nelly was not given the option to simply jump over the prone junior mage with a jump check, earlier - she had to compete with the CMD for entering an enemy square at full speed.
So yeah, I do think it's a bit controversial if he gets to be thrown over her now - especially if that happens without an extra check.
And even more if he is allowed to simply resume flying afterwards - he should need to get his bearings, maybe even rushes off into the tentacles because he feels he's falling towards the ceiling - the elemental is not an extension of him, only a servant.
And not a particulary smart one based on the Int Score - he may have given a command to get it to extract him, but that also signals that he is changing the orders of his summon...making those nearby extra cautious even if there is no time to translate if someone understood.
All that said, I heavily hope that he took enough damage and that the AoO's let the elemental sling a corpse.
The suspense!
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Don't worry. It's not the suspense that kills you; it's the wizard.
Starfinder has an off-kilter condition that might be a good way to approximate being prone while flying.
Either way Mel wins the quip of the day award :D
Well Turion I think the situation is a little different. Nelly could attempt an acrobatics check to leap over the junior mage but that is a pretty tough acrobatics check while squeezing. She could overrun or what not but the game mechanics for getting past somebody in that situation without flying through the air require a standard action or a great acrobatics check.
Busy weekend. Took a while to update.
Can Nelly AOO grapple?
No, grapple is not a maneuver you can perform on an AoO.
I guess we hide in the antimagic field and wait out the wizard's spells. It's hardly heroic, but what else is there to do?
I respectfully disagree.
Squeezing has a penalty on attack and defense, because you have limited space to maneuver. Only when squeezing into a space less than half your size does it become an issue where you need to use escape artist - before, movement is not impacted, just your options to maneuver.
Also, with her base speed, for running and jumping, Nelly has a default +14 modifier. That means a 15-foot jump cannot fail(unless no running start) and a 5-foot high jump requires a roll of 6+ - quite doable.
Passing by the prone and grappled junior mage should have been quite doable.
Also, you mention that flying would remedy that - where I have to mention that the old mage is NOT flying. He is flung. He should not be able to avoid obstacles, dodge, or change course if something moves to stop him.
And yeah, I got nothing, this was the last straw, you guys go run, we can't win here. Even if someone was to get a hold of him again, the elemental could simply fling him out of the grapple with a readied action while still in the magic zone.
Guys, there's no way Fyrtor would run and leave Kelian caught to face the mage alone. I know it's stupid tactically, and that at this point we should cut our losses and run, but this is a particular point of his character.
Also of not, as long as the aether elemental can see you he'll be able to try to throw you back. It's a DC16 or higher fort save to avoid being thrown. So at least Brolin, and maybe others are risking being thrown back and being a singled out target (read: killed).
Not a lot, honestly. Danger, another long post incoming!
We know that following Mel's AoO and the damage from the telekinetic thrust, he was at zero hit points exactly. What we don't know is his current state: once he got out of the AMF, all his magic became operative again.
Let's assume a worst case scenario: he has a +6 belt in both CON and DEX. I would like to say this is unlikely at this level, but the GM has signaled that the wizard is seriously kitted out -- and this is the same GM who gave a different NPC a Belt of Physical Perfection +2 several levels ago. I would not put it past him to equip a boss with a belt that grants +6 to two (or three!) physical stats -- especially if said boss is a wizard who took Craft Wondrous Item.
Incidentally, GM, if he doesn't have Craft Wondrous Item, I will donate $50 to a charity of your choice. No joke, but I don't expect to have to pay up.
We know he's level 11, and that he is old, granting him bonuses to his mental stats but imposing penalties on his physical stats. However, he's also a wizard with sixth-level spell slots and would be a fool not to spend one of them on Age Resistance.
So if he has a +6 CON belt and also Age Resistance running, that means that leaving the AMF effectively gave him +8 CON, and thus 44 hit points back. If he only has Age Resistance running, then he only regained 11 hit points.
So, he has somewhere between 11 and 44 hit points remaining. Barring any extra cheese.
If it's 11, one good hit might take him out. If it's 44, well ...
In character, we don't really know how injured he is. He has been invisible for several rounds, and the last time we saw him clearly he was looking fine as far as we could tell.
He was briefly visible in the AMF, but Nelly is the only one who was in position to get a clear look at him. Mel is in a dark corridor, as Nelly pretty neatly blocks the majority of the light from Fyrtor's flaming sphere and the torch that Kelian threw back in the entry, and Algric's view was blocked by Mel.
(Incidentally, I really wanted Kelian to throw that torch into the corridor where Mel went, but I just could not find an in-character reason for him to do so when Nelly was in the way.)
So, from an in-character perspective, for all we know, he is perfectly fine aside from being slightly annoyed that killing us all is taking so long.
Meanwhile, now that he's out of the AMF, all of the problems that we had before are back in full force:
1) Our archers (Mel, Algric) can't shoot him from the AMF due to angles and invisibility.
2) Archers who move into the clear area are very likely to get grappled, at which point they're taking damage and still can't shoot because being grappled prevents you from taking an action that requires two hands.
3) Our casters (Brolin, Fyrtor) can't cast in the AMF.
4) Casting from within the clear area is unlikely, due to the high likelihood of getting grappled by the tentacles and the consequent very high Concentration DCs to cast anything.
5) Our primary melee type (Kazador) can't even attempt to enter the room for, what, another five rounds? Six? I'm not sure.
6) Even if he could go in, Kazador currently lacks any way to assault an invisible flying wizard. Ditto for Kelian.
7) We have no good way to avoid or remove the tentacles.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I've gone over the lists of items in Mel's and Kelian's inventories multiple times, racking my brain for some way any of it might be useful and coming up dry.
I still think we should stop engaging on his terms. We now have people in both of the two exits of the room. He can't get out, and he can't affect us from within the room. We should exit the room and wait him out.
Sooner or later all of his active spells will expire, and then we can re-engage. If we were exceptionally patient we could even wait a full twenty four hours, just in case of extra long buffs. We have at least two people on each exit and can afford to take turns standing watch and napping; whereas sleeping would be a death sentence for him. That might make for some interesting RP, actually -- we'd get to talk to him while waiting to kill him.
Of course, he might have a Ring of Sustenance, or some other way to avoid sleeping. But if we hear pages turning in a book, we know he's prepping spells around the corner and the time is ripe for a hammer to the face.
@Fyrtor I'll try and get Kelian free.
Do you want to use Brolin's hero point to reroll Kelian's combat maneuver? I'd like to save it in case someone needs it to avoid being flung by the elemental before we can all round our respective corners to break line of effect, but this is important too.
Ok, so if Kelian can't get free I think I'll cast sleet storm. I only get one spell before I'll probably end up grappled again. At least by casting that I cover everyone from being seen, and the elemental shouldn't be able to grab and throw what he can't see. It might make sense to do even if Kelian gets free.
Well, there is it.
As said, Nelly will not leave.
If Brolin wills it, she can have a vicious last go, but as you said, depending on how many HP he got back(I also expect False Life to be running...maybe not greater, but at least the level 2 variant which is 10+1d10 HP for him) it may be completely pointless.
Since she rolled so low for potential damage, I don't actually expect the attack to take him down, but after that failed attempt to force him into the AMF it would feel good to take a bite out of him :P
That, plus he may pass out in a couple hours when his false life runs out and he drops to negatives :P
HP is current now.
I haven't forgotten the sphere. I will definitely us it if I don't run. Idk guys I'll have to noodle a bit on this. I'll wait and see what the fall out of everything we've tried so far is. I think I'll go last and act as makes sense then.
@Túrion, I've posted an appeal from Mel to Nelly. She's free to comply or not, as she chooses, but if you want some in-character reason for her to leave the area, you've got one.
@Fyrtor, I've given you a way to be useful to Kelian and also help yourself.
For what it's worth, Kelian has three more channels (2d6) and three more Lay on Hands (3d6) today, thanks to his Hospitaller archetype which gets him both on separate pools of uses. He can do a fair bit of healing today.
Nelly could kill the wizard if his belt grants a mere +2 CON bonus, which seems unlikely. If we can scrape together ten or twenty more damage, either with a lucky flaming sphere roll (the wizard's avoided them fairly consistently thus far) or something else that I can't think of, then we should give the hero point to Nelly so she can act out of turn.
If Fyrtor directed the flaming sphere as a move, and then moved with his standard, he could still get into the antimagic zone.
It's a good idea. I think I'll cast sleet storm and move to help Kelian unless something changes.
Fyrtor had to spend a standard to get free of the tentacles. He has a move left -- it's either the sphere or reaching the AMF.
EDIT: No wait, that was a liberating command, so it actually happened on Brolin's turn! Never mind.
I rather doubt he'll be able to direct the sphere from inside the AMF. But it's not worth his life on the off chance that the wizard fails his save. I'm not even sure we know which square to send it to right now.
Moving to help Kelian is perfect. Fyrtor isn't a man against running away, but he's massively overprotective. Mel's solution is a perfect 8n character way to do what we want to out of character. The sleet storm will hopefully mean that we don't have to worry about being thrown.
As an aside, I generally don't agree with the excuse "but it's what my character would do" but this particular game has been pretty role play over roll play.
I hope no one is too upset with me causing some trouble in this instance.
Also it's pretty entertaining to me that we are so active so late an night right before work. Some of you live a good bit further east than I do. Get some sleep! Lol.
SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK! It's only 2 AM. I hardly ever go to bed before now anyway.
Well, since the Mage was slung into the middle of the room, and the corridors also have 15-foot ceilings, there's no reason archers should not be able to shoot him, he's not hiding in a corner right now.
They need to roll for miss chance if they can pinpoint the square, but it should be possible. So Kazador and Mel could each try and shoot - he has all his buffs up again so sky-high AC but hey, why not try?
@Mel: I appreciate the notion. But Nelly won't leave...for reasons.
All secrecy aside, no matter how that battle ends, I can explain afterwards, just not now.
Suit yourself; it's something Mel would try, even if it doesn't work. She doesn't want Nelly to die if she can help it.
Me neither, Mel, me neither.
@Fyrtor: Pick 2....Direct the Sphere, move to Kelian, cast Sleet Storm...I don't think all 3 will be possible.
OOC knowledge: Aether Elementals have Blindsense. Which is likely not stopped by Sleet Storm. So it could still attempt to pull people in - so I'd be in favor of Sphere+Kelian
Dad gumit! I forgot about that. Sigh, well in that case sphere plus move to Kelian probably makes the most sense. Fyrtor would know in character even if I forgot out of character.
Edit:Hmmm reading it though blindsense still suffers the 50% miss chance. Idk if that would allow here though.
GM? Would the 50% miss chance be applied to telekinetic throw?
Technically, I think not.
As with most attack modes of creatures or traps, there is either an attack roll or a save involved.
If there's an attack roll(as for maneuvers and co), then there is a miss chance.
If there is a save(such as for Telekinetic Throw), then there is none.
At least that's my reading. Even if it applied, you know it wouldn't miss considering our luck so far - and then one of ours will end up effectively blind in an area of tentacles and need acrobatics-checks to move after getting free of the grapple.
I really don’t know what to do right now for either character. With the Invisibility, flight and angles both are completely shut down. Should Kazador step up to help the Paladin? But even if so he can’t reach his body into the area, so not sure if he can either do that.
@Kaz: Kelian already spent his standard this round to try and get free - he is grappled. That means even if you hand him the bow and he picks it this round, he would need to get free NEXT round with his standard and does not get to shoot.
It may be better if Kaz simply picked a space and shot. If Nelly and the giant flaming sphere converge on a location, pick that one. If not, try that move action perception check and fire at random :)
You never know, could hit the right square. But still better than doing nothing I think...
Edit: Invisibility could be taken care off by Fyrtor, Flight is not a problem with Ranged Weaponry, and the angles only have a problem for the very corners of the room.
@Fyrtor: If you are considering casting, why not go for Faery Fire instead of Sleet Storm to give the Dwarfs and Mel a target?
And no miss chance.
Folks, I added some information to gameplay that may be relevant. I forgot to roll mage's perception in my hurry to get a post in last night. That might alter your plans.
Also, I'm tired, like everyone, of Kazador being completely out of this fight. Enough is enough.
Mel: He absolutely has craft wondrous item. That was a very safe bet. XD But he does not have a +6 con belt. He certainly can't wear a +6 con belt and a +6 dex belt at the same time, unless one were a tattoo, which would be incredibly expensive.
Well, unless his rage gives him wings, Kazador is still left out of this fight. He could enter the black tentacles and expose himself to their grappling, but he can't reach either of the invisible targets at the ceiling.
Just saying.
But more relevant: If the firey damage spell he used before was Burning Arc, then the DC for Fyrtor should have been 2 lower, meaning Fyrtor should have made the save, I think? Any HP left may be relevant so just asking to double-check if you've been in a hurry last night.
Also, a Belt of Physical Might very much exists, no tattoo needed.
Just 90k Gold, too, for the +6 Con/+6 Dex variant.
Oh yes it exists but that would also be incredibly expensive, even crafted. I understood Mel as saying he had two different belts, which I was responding to.
Yes the save should be two lower for Fyrtor. Good catch.
And Kazador has other ways to contribute, rather than just hitting things with weapons, though he's not the worst archer, that's for sure.
Yay! Kazador can join the tentacle party!
For what’s happening now, I can see a few options.
(1a) If faerie fire illuminates the mage, I could shoot him (and probably miss, a +11 vs AC28+ is not good odds)
(1b) Or I could run in and try to grapple, bracing the tentacles and AOE spells
(2) Is there any way he could pull Kelian out?
You could try a grapple to pull Kelian out of a grapple. I'd let you roll CMB+2 because Kelian's certainly trying to help to gry to get him out of the grapple. You have spells too, right?
Fyi, the mage is 10 ft off the ground so you'd have to jump really high to grapple him.
You know guys, I just had a fun idea.
Fyrtor, summon a Aether Elemental and have it sling the mage right back into the AMF - yay for Blindsense and targetting Fortitude.
I would cast faery fire, but I failed when attempting it before, so it was lost. I could bring it back with a pearl, but then that would be my standard action.
Also I would have summoned an aether elemental, but that's a 1 round action meaning I'm very likely to fail in casting it due to tenticles or an aggressive mage.
I missed that you lost the spell earlier.
What about your burst of radiance?
5d4 damage to evils regardless of their save sounds good since we established he is evil...potentially blinding him just adds to the value(as he would lose his dex bonus versus potential archer attacks).
~12.5 points of unavoidable damage extra on top of Nelly's potential last assault sounds like a good deal, thats ~35 damage before your flaming sphere.
Which reminds me: The sphere slammed into him earlier, did it not?
In that case, he should have caught on fire. He should still be on fire unless he makes a reflex save to stop burning - so potentially 1d6 damage more.
Kazador has 0 spells. He only gets 4 uses per day, and all of them were used up already. Most on the last mage fight. Teleported into the tower, tried to dispel the enemy’s flight, and cast fly to try and hit him in the air. I don’t know where the 4th went. Picking a feat, perhaps? I can’t remember, but whatever it was it probably seemed like a good idea at the time.
But regardless. Kazador is naught but a regular fighter at the moment. One who will try to free Kelian.
Burst of radiance is a good choice if we are attacking not running. We still have to come to a consensus though.
Hopefully Brolin can give his HP to Nelly. That might win us this. Might.
Also non-casters need to get out of there asap. Against two invisible flying foes, Martials are near useless
Good point on the flaming sphere, Turion. I believe he was hit by it once a few rounds ago.
Ah. So he was dying went he left the room, and regained consciousness when flung back in. That must have been unpleasant.
Also, this all got me thinking. The Aether Elemental has telekinetic invisiblity like a kineticist. If it entered an AMF zone, would it lose Invisibility? And if not, does that mean Kineticists keep all of their powers in an AMF zone?
I’ve got Kineticists in other campaigns. If this is the case, it could be helpful in dealing with mages once higher levels are reached
Telekinetic Invisibility of the Kineticist is a SP => Spell-like.
Telekinetic Invisibility of the Aether Elemental is EX => Extraordinary.
=> Extraordinary Abilities (Ex)
Extraordinary abilities are non-magical.
So no, it would remain invisible in the AMF. The Kineticist would lose invisibility.
It simply says it works the same way, because it has some special interactions with specific modes of detection.
But this one is summoned and would wink out...but a regular one would remain invisible courtesy of all it's abilities being EX.
Ok, so think that's everyone except Fyrtor has gone. And I still am not sure which way we should go. I suppose Kazador is standing in the square where Fyrtor would have gone to help Kelian sit hat avenue is out.
Has Nelly indicated where the mage is. Fyrtor located the elemental last turn, I'm going to go with the assumption that it hasn't moved though it may have.
If we attack I'll go with burst of radiance followed by the sphere. If burst of radience gets luck and lands (DC18) then the mage will be blind which should make landing the sphere easier.
3dit: Personally I feel like we should push through. We are close and if we keep up the pressure we can win I think. Starting over puts us at risk as well.