Are Shuriken really that bad?


Advice


Hey all, I've been asked to put together a character that specializes in throwing shuriken. I understand PF pretty well and I've checked out the guides for rogue and ninja, but shuriken just seem to be really sucky. They have such tiny range that they're essentially melee, and if you want to throw a whole lot of them you'll be taking a lot of penalties.

Some Specifics: 20 point buy, any races available, but core/common prefered. Core/APG/ARG/Magic&Combat are the available bookes so pretty open.

I was thinking something like halfling ninja (for the bonus to stealth, saves, +dex/cha, and the size bonus to hit).

Abilities(pre racial) 12, 16, 12, 10, 11, 14.

Halfling Ninja 10
Ninja Tricks: Vanish, Flurry of Stars, Weapon Training (WF shuriken), Shadow Clone, Vanishing Blade

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, ???, ???

The biggest issue seems to be that I have no real sources of damage! Sneak attack of 5d6 is nice, but that's only an average of 17.5 damage and I have virtually no other ways to add damage (I must be missing something). Also with (+7 BAB, + 6 dex, +2 magic +1 WF, -2 RS, -2 FoS= +12/+12/+12/+12/+7) my to hit seems absurdly low for a 10th level character.

Does this concept really suck, or am I missing something? Any input would be greatly appreciated.


IIRC, in Treantmonk's Guide to Monks, he had a section in there about shuriken, and advised bumping Strength rather than Dexterity when using them. I'd look for that Guide and see what it says.


seems ninjas with shuriken flurry+extra ki attack, poisoned shurikens, and crippling strike talent can shut down would-be threats if they're sneak attacking.

it's useless against constructs, sure. but then so are paladins.

Silver Crusade

A shuriken is designed to be an utility knife, as I understand it. Only in D&D type fantasy is the shuriken restricted to the Ninja. A samurai would use a shuriken for a variety of uses. Like cutting rope.

This is from Sword of Might (good for martial artists and scholars, hopefully):

Shuriken ( literally "hand hidden blade") is a traditional Japanese concealed weapon that was used for throwing, and sometimes stabbing. They are small, sharpened, hand-held blades made from a variety of everyday items, such as needles, nails, and knives, as well as coins, washers, and other flat plates of metal. Shuriken were mainly a supplemental weapon to the more commonly used katana (sword) or yari (spear) in a warrior's arsenal, though they often played a pivotal tactical role in battle. The art of wielding the shuriken is known as shuriken-jutsu, and was mainly taught as a minor, or more correctly, a secret part of the martial arts curriculum of many famous schools, such as Yagyu Ryu, Katori Shinto Ryu, Itto Ryu, Kukishin Ryu, and Togakure Ryu.

Shuriken are commonly known in the west as "throwing stars" or "ninja stars". This term hardly does justice to the weapon, however, as the pointed "star" shaped form is but one of many different designs the blades took over the centuries in which they were used.


I'd suggest using the Two Weapon Fighting feats instead of or in addition to Rapid Shot. With TWF and ITWF you'd get two extra attacks instead of one for the same -2 penalty to hit.

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, TWF, ITWF, Weapon Finesse

You could sub out Weapon Finesse for Rapid Shot, but that might exacerbate your low attack bonus problems, and Weapon Finesse gives you the option to engage in melee if needed.

Either way you go on feats, it does seem like you might benefit from some way to boost your underwhelming attack bonuses. One answer for that might be to max out Use Magic Device and buy a caster level 9 wand of Divine Favor. This would give you a +3 to attacks and damage for 10 rounds. Taking a round off to buff seems a little weak, but with the short range on your shuriken you might need to spend a move action to getting into position anyhow. The Flame Arrow spell could help boost your damage by +1d6 fire, but you'd really have to weigh the cost vs the benefit unless you have a friendly spellcaster who can hook you up.


oh, to amend my earlier post: said shurikens can also explode.

Grand Lodge

Well, you could go Crusader Cleric of Graffiacane, or Yaezhing, nab the Guided Hand feat, and use Wisdom for attack rolls with Shuriken.

This will also give you access to the Abundant Ammunition, and Greater Magic Weapon spells, which you can use on Shuriken.

With this, you can go full armor, pump strength, which means melee is not an issue.


If you want you can use a Belt of Mighty Hurling to use STR with thrown weapons.


Barbarian (urban?) hurler for more range and damage, fighter weapon master, and then ninja the rest for flurry of stars etc. The biggest problem to my mind is the gp cost; literally throwing money away every round.

So, instead consider arcane duelist or dervish dancer bard for abundant ammo. Urban barbarian hurler and ninja 2, and bard the rest. Stardancing halfling.

Grand Lodge

I still like the Shuriken throwing holy warrior, and servant of the enforcer of justice among the gods.


Monk. Apparently they can Flurry with Shuriken.


I went with monk+ranger for my RotRL char, and used Shuriken when moving into combat would put me without backup, or when I killed everything within Lunge range early. Favored Enemy bonuses helped, though I would have loved the belt of mighty hurling had it been out at the time.

You can get flame arrow cast upon them as ammunition, weapon blanch them for DR cutting, and if you run into a regular species of opponent, invest in some +1-bane shuriken to toss on primary throws.

Dark Archive

sniper googles will give you +2 damage per sneak attack dice if you are within 30 ft


I am planning on converting my Monk into a shuriken turret for when he can't (or doesn't want to) get into melee.

A Monk or Ninja who focuses on Shuriken can be pretty powerful.


Whoa! I had no idea sniper's goggles were that good.

Also, question... Could you theoretically use flurry of stars with some sort of other ranged thrown weapon, or would it only work with shuriken?


Shuriken Only.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Okay! With the belt of mighty hurling discovery, shuriken suddenly get a lot better on both the attack and damage front.

Human Ninja 10

Abilities(post racial) 18, 10, 14, 8, 12, 14

Ninja Tricks: Vanish, Flurry of Stars, Weapon Training (WF shuriken), Shadow Clone, Vanishing Blade

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, ITWF, Deadly Aim.

KEY Equipment: Belt of Mighty hurling, sniper's goggles, and +1 shurikens.

Now all of a sudden things are looking much, much better.

Attack (7 BAB, +6 str, +1 WF, +1 PBS, +1 magic -2 FoS, -2 TWF -2 DA). So that gives +10/10/10/10/5/5 for 1d3+ 10(+6 str +1 magic + 4 DA) + 5d6. So that's 6 attacks at around 28 damage apiece, and thanks to hidden blade I'll be targeting flat footed AC. Hrm.

Grand Lodge

ashern wrote:

Okay! With the belt of mighty hurling discovery, shuriken suddenly get a lot better on both the attack and damage front.

Human Ninja 10

Abilities(post racial) 18, 10, 14, 8, 12, 14

Ninja Tricks: Vanish, Flurry of Stars, Weapon Training (WF shuriken), Shadow Clone, Vanishing Blade

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, ITWF, Deadly Aim.

KEY Equipment: Belt of Mighty hurling, sniper's goggles, and +1 shurikens.

Now all of a sudden things are looking much, much better.

Attack (7 BAB, +6 str, +1 WF, +1 PBS, +1 magic -2 FoS, -2 TWF -2 DA). So that gives +10/10/10/10/5/5 for 1d3+ 10(+6 str +1 magic + 4 DA) + 5d6. So that's 6 attacks at around 28 damage apiece, and thanks to hidden blade I'll be targeting flat footed AC. Hrm.

Actually, I am pretty sure Sneak Attack will only count for the first attack to connect, so that first one will average 28. The rest would average at about 6.5.


Actually I'll be under the effects of improved invisibility so I actually will be getting sneak attack on all of the attacks.


I definately recommend using the poison. "You hit him three times and only did three points of damage?!" "No, I'm making the wizard make three fortitude saves, every round."


Lloyd Jackson wrote:
I definately recommend using the poison. "You hit him three times and only did three points of damage?!" "No, I'm making the wizard make three fortitude saves, every round."

Seconded.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Are Shuriken really that bad? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.