This thread is for anything OOC that's not directly related to the current in game scene. I prefer to keep gameplay free of any unnecessary OOC chatter, so that it reads as much like a novel as possible.
Over the next couple days I will be going over everyone's character with a fine toothed comb, then I will write the into post and get things started.
In the meantime, I'd like you to look over each other's characters and propose any in character connections you might have to one another. The more in character connections we can arrange pre game, the richer the RP will be. Anything is okay, "You buy socks from my aunt" "I see you at the pub occasionally" etc. Obviously both PCs have to approve any connection.
Happy to be here :-)
Likewise.
Thank you for this opportunity, DM Jelani! Tonight I'll go through everyone else's characters to see what links I can find. If anyone has any good suggestions, please let me know!
Geoffrey
Crunch: Looks good.
Fluff: Looks good also. In my Westcrown the night is full of dreadful howling and baying, and it’s even darker than canon Westcrown. I will make a separate post about that shortly. Otherwise perfect lead in to the campaign.
York
Crunch: You can’t take power attack, you don’t have a +1 BAB yet. Looks like you still need to do your gear, lets get that going ASAP please. Other than that, you’re good.
Fluff: Awesome. He should be fun. I don’t know whether he’s a beggar, an artist or a thief. Hmm.
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I'll get to the rest later.
My version of Westcrown is a little more intense than canon. Each night is filled with the howling of shadow beasts, which are magically terrifying (if you're close enough). There is a literal shadow curse as well, the night is magically dark. The default light level at night is one step below whatever it would normally be. So the light level at night inside a torch/lantern/light spell/sunrod is dim (20% miss chance for creatures without darkvision). Places that aren't illuminated are always dark. To get it up to normal light level, you need something the equivalent of a daylight spell.
You are correct of course, Jelani. I was pressed for time and looking for something generic but useful to melee. I would have remembered the +1 requirement if I'd stopped to think about it for even a moment.
No worries, just change it out for something else. Combat reflexes is always a good one for this situation.
Looking through character backgrounds, trying to work on ties as requested. Here's a few propositions for people to consider, and always open to suggestions!
Geoffrey Whittaker - I see several possible connections here, you being the son of an Opera singer and me an Actress. As Oktavia's events with her mother were fairly public, I see no reason Geoffrey might not have heard of her. I could see a potential meeting at the theatre, either simply meeting each other once, or possibly being friends.
York - Not seeing anything too major. Possibly just having met on the street. One idea I did have that I kinda liked, and not sure how well this would fit in your character. Possibly Oktavia nearly getting caught, being chased by a guard, and you just happen to trip him up letting her get away. Just a thought.
Actually York, just had a thought. Perhaps you're the one who taught Oktavia how to steal?
Belinda - Not sure. One thought I had was possibly a passing meeting with one of Oktavia's older half-siblings. Any ideas on your end?
David Grayson - I see a couple different possibilities here. Oktavia's father being a hired guard could have had past dealings with you and Reynolds, turning criminals over and whatnot. Just a thought.
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Also I gotta say, I feel left out, being the only one who didn't take conspiracy hunter. We have a regular secret society here almost.
Oh yeah, before I forget to mention it, I have a couple maps up on the Campaign Info tab. I'll also be tracking experience and other important stuff there as the game gets going.
There is a perma-link to the google doc where I'll be posting combat maps at the top of the page, under the little campaign description blurb.
Sorry, I'm late! I'll get to reading everything now.
I'm still balancing out a my newly acquired workload from returning to college. I will keep things moving, but Wednesday-Friday is very very busy for me and not a lot will usually happen.
@Oktavia: Well, if you want to change your trait, and become a member of the Hidden Ordained Brethren of the Shadows of Westcrown (Reform Branch), feel free ;-)
I'm going to go over Oktavia and Belinda at some point tonight after I watch some TV. I sent a PM to David, but he hasn't responded. I'll assume he's no longer interested. That's fine though, we can run with four people if he doesn't show up by the time I'm ready to start things.
I play with him on Geoffrey's Finest, and he mentioned that he recently lost his job, which is interfering with his posting.
Oktavia
Crunch:Can you break down your wealth for me? Looks like you have way too much money for what I specified.
Fluff:Looks good.
Belinda
Crunch:No gear, roll for gold and pick your kit unless you want to own nothing except your clothes.
Fluff:Looks good. There aren't any official Pathfinders in Westcrown so it might be better for her to keep that particular association quiet. Up to you.
Next step for me is writing an intro post, not going to set a specific timeline other than it'll be up before the weekend's over.
Sure thing!
Linked post for initial gold roll
Roll 60gp
Child of Infamy Trait 300gp
STARTING: 360gp
Rogue's kit - Free
Dagger - Free
Peasant's Outfit - Free
MW Hide Shirt - 170gp
MW Backpack - 50gp
Mask - 1gp
EXPENSES: 221gp
STARTING - EXPENSES: 360-221
TOTAL: 139gp
If you'd prefer Child of Infamy didn't provide the gold bonus, I can easily drop stuff down to account for that. Just let me know!
Roll 60gp
STARTING: 60gp
Rogue's kit - Free
Dagger - Free
Peasant's Outfit - Free
Hide Shirt - 20gp
Backpack - 2gp
Mask - 1gp
EXPENSES: 23gp
STARTING - EXPENSES: 60-23
TOTAL: 37gp
Nope that's fine thanks. I just wasn't paying attention to the trait.
Scholar's Outfit (Free)
Chronicler's Kit (Free)
Scrivner's Kit (2 GP)
Blue Book [Westcrown] (5 GP)
Book of Letters [Westcrown (50 GP)
Sorry no post yet guys, been busy. I will try to get one up tomorrow morning.
I notice no one has proposed any connections or responded to Oktavia's proposals. I still think that would be a good use of this time.
Gameplay is live.
It's a short post, but I figure it's better to get things rolling than to keep delaying.
Combat:
Please post your narrative description of actions followed by an OOC description of them, as follows...
Georgina steps forward and rams her knife into the goblin's eye
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I run combat in blocks. The party's highest roller will set initiative for the whole group and then actions take place in posting order. If you want to go after someone else in the party say so.
Monsters also will roll initiative in blocks.
Normally I will put the enemies' stats in a spoiler in my profile so that you can resolve your own actions in your post. So make sure to check if you hit, and describe the damage you do appropraitely. If they need to roll a save, roll it for them. If they have SR and you are casting a spell, roll your caster level check, etc.
I will also have a macro for any AOO the monster might make. If you provoke an AOO, roll the AOO on yourself. I'll have everyone make something similar for their PCs once we go summoner. That way I can roll AOOs for you on the enemies quickly and easily when they provoke.
Please ask if you have any questions.
@Oktavia: Sure, I would be happy for us to be friends; perhaps they first met when Geoffrey was looking for details about his mother?
@Oktavia: sounds just fine. York is always on the lookout for those in need if protection from The Man. And, having a favor owed is exactly the kind of hint he'd go for.
As for everyone else, York is a regular at mos of the Taverns in the more adventurous parts of town. Anyone who has reason to hang out there would be familiar with the ancient old man who entertained, and was more than willing to fleece a few out of towners not wise enough to watch more carefully.
Belinda has been in town for about two years. She socializes with the mercantile elite, but she may have met the less lawful side in her pursuit of unused books.
@Oktavia: Sure, I would be happy for us to be friends; perhaps they first met when Geoffrey was looking for details about his mother?
Sounds good to me!
@Oktavia: sounds just fine. York is always on the lookout for those in need if protection from The Man. And, having a favor owed is exactly the kind of hint he'd go for.
Also sounds good!
Yay, everyone's talking :) I'm such a happy gamer-family daddy :P
Anyway, I've got a lot of school work to do this morning, but if I get a good amount done I might be able to update before work. If not then I'll try to get something up after work.
/facedesk.
Don't look at my stats quite yet. I need to redo them. Somehow I missed Gestalt and instead leveled to level 2 as an Expert 1 / Synthesist Summoner 1. I'll fix it when I get home tonight. I'll move everything to one alias when I do as well.
Ok, time to make time for my obligatory, self-benefiting rant. First off, let me say that I always play by the 'The GM is final arbiter of the rules' mantra, as I feel it is pretty core to the rules of the game. However, that doesn't mean that from time to time I might disagree with an interpretation, and try to convince said GM otherwise. If I can't convince him or her, well, it's not going to spoil my fun, and I'm not going to spoil anyone else's either. But if I can sway their opinion...
Slam (Ex): An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam attack. This attack is a primary attack. The slam deals 1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs 1 evolution point). This evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution.
To me, the implication of this is clear, but upon reading, I must acknowledge that you could interpret it the other way as well. Both interpretations are seeing specific terms that are obviously intended, but were omitted for some reason, making the meaning ambiguous.
Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs 1 evolution point).
Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs 1 evolution point).
However, even this isn't completely clear, though it becomes more of a stretch to interpret it as both claw attacks becoming slam attacks. To make it clearly a single attack, you need to change a bit more of the sentence structure.
Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the clawsfrom its base form withthisslam attack (this still costs 1 evolution point).
Of course this proves nothing, but does go to help explain my thinking in why it is intended to represent two slams as opposed to one. If you subscribe to Occam's razor (which personally I generally don't, as it is too frequently applied incorectly), then two makes more sense than one.
Average damage from two claws would be 10.5 (and both have to hit), average damage from your slam is 11, and it frees up one of your attack slots like Geoffrey pointed out. Not to mention as long as it's your only natural attack you get that sweet 3 for 1 from power attack too.
York's Average damage is 11 because he spent another point on the Improved Damage evolution, increasing his Slam damage from 1d8 to 2d6. For the point to hold up, the math needs to be looked at a little differently.
Default Damage Decrease:
2x1d4+3 = 2.5+3+2.5+3 = 11 damage average
1x1d8+4 = 5.5+4 = 9.5 damage averageImproved Damage Decrease:
2x1d6+3 = 3.5+3+3.5+3 = 13 damage average
1x2d6+4 = 7+4 = 11 damage average
As you can see, when you account for that change, the damage actually goes down in both cases. I'm paying a point to do less damage? I could potentially see this making sense if it was a straight across the board kind of trade; you do slightly less damage, but get the potential single weapon kind of advantage, as well as whatever aesthetic you were going for with the blunt attack. However, making someone pay for this seems very odd.
Oh, but I get that 1 1/2 STR to damage (which is already included in the example above)...
Of course, how many Eidolon's are built around a single attack... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
In our group of 4 Synthesist, we have zero; of the three Synthesists in the Killfest campaign we had zero. An Eidolon's strength is generally his massive array of natural attacks, used simultaneously to shred a foe to bits. I have never seen a build that attempted to focus on a single attack, and I doubt any of you have either. So, while a character with only one attack would get the damage bonus (+1 for most characters), rarely would it ever even reach 2nd or 3rd level, let alone beyond.
That 3/1 would be useful, but as you pointed out earlier when I was making the character, I can't qualify for Power Attack at level one due to my BAB 0, and by the time I get it at level 3, I'm already sure to have multiple natural attacks and have lost the ability...
Which is useful in what way? There is no other weapon you can apply to an arm that does not come in pairs... claws, pincers... bite, gore, sting, tail slap, and wing buffet are all ineligible, so I am freeing up a weapon slot so I can replace it with... another slam? That's what I wanted in the first place, so how does freeing up a slot help? I could use a weapon there, but only if I didn't mind taking a -5 on all my natural attacks as a result, and since I can only use simple weapons (and would have to pay for even that as a regular non-synthesist Eidolon) I can't see how that could be better than a natural attack.
Speaking of which, if it opens up a slot, where is the slot opened up? Do I slam with my right arm, or with my left arm? While Eidolon can and do look weird, and I'm sure could have an asymmetrical build, I'm not sure why you would want to do this. Further, does an Eidolon have an off-arm? If I have a slam does it go to my primary, or off hand? If I wanted to use a weapon in concert as mentioned above, is that in my off or dominant hand?
Maybe; but this is a trade off. In order to use multiple attacks, I need to be able to use a full-attack option, and therefore wont get to use it whenever I have to move in a round, so a single, high damage attack might be better, right? Well not always, such as when dealing with high AC foes. Multiple attacks give you greater opportunity for a fluke hit, and incrementally more chances to score a critical, meaning they are far more useful for whittling down tough foes than that single attack, which will miss only as often as any individual natural attack, but have half as many chances (or less) to score those same hits via crits and fluke rolls. A single attack has advantages, a flurry of attacks has advantages; all depends on the circumstances, and which is better is probably a matter of personal opinion. Again, as the Eidolon is built with the seeming purpose to be a mobile natural weapon's platform, I would argue the intent goes towards the two attack side.
All in all, the rebuild I did using the leg claws works for the most part, even though it requires compromising the pure idealized human aesthetic I was going for a little bit, in order to maintain combat efficacy. I would rather have the two slams, as I think the rules intend, but can live with it as is if I fail to convince. Let me know your thoughts.
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is killed and sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks. The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist. The eidolon must have limbs for the synthesist to cast spells with somatic components. The eidolon’s temporary hit points can be restored with the rejuvenate eidolon spell.
The BAB at level 1 for a fused Eidolon is +1. So this is one I'm not sure about either, but it seems a Synthesist could pick up Power Attack at level 1 and benefit from it, but only while fused. Just something I thought was interesting.
Oktavia is right, you can take power attack at level 1, you just don't benefit from the feat when your suit's not up.
I play a synthesist focused around one attack currently, his bite. He's got reach, bite II, eventually improved damage (improved str is more payoff at the moment). It's pretty effective despite having two claws as backup weapons, because bite II still makes it 1.5x str.
Slam is kinda whack yes, but it's awesome at first-fourth level when you have a 3 attack limit and you're a biped. After 4th level when your attack limit goes up, drop slam for another pair of claws and focus on powering up your four claws. You can't change your feats every level, but you can change your evolutions every level. It's going to be impossible to form a pure humanoid ideal without focusing on one natural attack, whether that be bite or slam.
If you don't mind fudging the claws, I would take improved str evo, then improved damage claws, then the feat improved natural weapon claws, then just keep adding limbs, claws, natural armor and strength.
Alternatively, focus on slam. Improved natural armor, improved strength and slam to replace your claws. Power attack+vital strike feat chain, dragon style or flight later if you can swing it. Improved damage slam, reach, improved natural weapon slam. Essentially you'd be a greatsword fighter whose sword is his incredible hulk smash. You'd be a lot more mobile and durable than a traditional fighter as well.
Slam (Ex): An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam(no s) attack(no s). This (not these) attack(No s) is (not are) a primary attack(no s). The slam(no s) deals 1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with this (not these) slam attack(no s) (this still costs 1 evolution point). This evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution.
I appreciate your gumption, but as I said. It's clear to me from both a grammatical and game balance standpoint why it's a single slam. I read at least a dozen threads in the rules questions forum, and not a single one came to the conclusion that it's multiple slams. If that were the case there would be an offical FAQ or errata by now, the ability has been out for years. Sorry.
Gumption I have in excess, it's learning to back down, even when i think I'm right, that's taken time to get the hang of. I only saw two forums, and neither anything near as in depth a look we've just had on the issue. Both consisted only of one questioned post, followed by an opinion, unsupported by any significant reasoning. An has been oft shown to be the case in history, just because an opinion has been held by the majority, does not make it right.
However, as I said, it's your game, so I'll abide by your interpretation. There are plenty of other build options, so really only flavour is impacted. And logic; logic is pretty beaten up right now. Poor guy. *Sniff*
;)
Logic can never be your ally in a PF rules debate unfortunately. It's kinda like law in that regard. It doesn't matter what makes sense. It matters what someone wrote down (often poorly worded).
So nobody's posting.... I know it's the holidays but I'd still like to see a post from everyone once per 48 hours or so. Is the game not fun/engaging, or are people still just busy?
Yea, sorry about that lack of posting. This holiday season has been just one crisis after another. Thank god it's a new year. First resolution, no crisis's!! Hopefully I'll go at least a week.
Letting everyone know my boss is in town this week (surprise, surprise!) and it looks like I'll be working some pretty long days all week. I'll try to get posts in when I can, but will be tough. I apologize for the short notice I also suffered from. Please bot me in combat.
Just to repeat, I'm waiting on you guys to basically decide what you're doing. Then I'll do a fast forward montage to when the event that will push things forward happens.
As a warning, this game is approaching the level of slowness where I decide it's not worth my time and close the game to focus my energies elsewhere. I know one post a day isn't going to happen, but this thing is molasses.
I can see your point. I am happy to try and force an increased pace by posting more often, if that helps...?
It might. It takes two to tango though...