| Seijiro |
1d20 ⇒ 3
Seijiro, in all innocence, takes Dhaavan's statement of forgetfulness at face value. He shakes his head slightly, assuming Dhaavan must have gotten too drunk last night to remember what he did.
Variel Nightstorm
|
Catching the meaning behind Dhaavan's shrug, Variel tries not to let him get the best of the situation. Perhaps I should have Jiro spend the night with you then to help you remember in the morning what has transpired. He can keep you grounded and show you how he has a good time. Perhaps then you can recall exactly how much trouble you can avoid.
Of course Variel is glad the youth is having a good time. In fact he hopes that evyone can enjoy the few days off while the ship is unloaded and then restocked with supplies. Variel has his own ideas for the night but Variel will have to wait to see how the day progresses.
| DM Immortal |
You all manage to get through your tasks without issue and the day passes quickly. You all gather for a nightcap before heading back to the ship. On the way back you all are talking animatedly and having a good time.
| Rain Taneththir |
Perception: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (11) + 9 = 20
Rain's eyes noted the lack of people on the usual bustling streets of Bloodcove. It seemed unusually deserted for this time of night.
"Have you noticed we are the only people walking the streets this night? Strange." she says quietly out aloud to her comrades.
Variel Nightstorm
|
Dont know what everyone elses thoughts are but I see us walking 2x2x2. Dont know what order but Dhaavan and Jiro talking about the ngiht and sharing stories, Flynn and Camm discussing their pastand future, and Rain and Variel bringing up the rear. Just how I am picturing it in my head for some reason.
perception 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (10) + 2 = 12
Walking next to Rain he hears her comment. Why no my dear Rain, I have not. I am still replaying the look on Dhaavan's face. One second he is singing some bawdy song with some other lads, the next moment he is lying on his back with this she devil straddling him. Don't know what he said or did to convince her to get off of him so quickly, but it must have been something good. I wonder if that was teh same woman he was talking to us about earlier. You know, the one who brought him home to talk with her father.
Calling out to the young lad, Hey Dhaavan, I know you and Jiro were planning on spending the night in town tonight. Beware those wily women coming after you. It may be that your honeyed tongue is what gets you in trouble instead of out of it for a change.
Turning back to Rain, It probably is just everyone else is at the bar carousing still. I am surprised that Dhaavan and Jiro are out here with us. I figured they would spend as much time enjoying the last couple of nights in town before we left.
| Seijiro |
perception: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (14) + 7 = 21
Seijiro seems oblivious to the movement on the roof, but does nod to Rain. "Hai, it seems odd the streets are so empty tonight." He gets a prickly feeling that something is wrong, but can't put a finger on it, and so just continues to walk with the others.
| Rain Taneththir |
I have no problem with the order of walking. It seems to follow suit with what's been going on with the respective members of our group.
Rain listens to Variel's reassurances but still feels on edge. She never did like dark, quiet alleys and streets.
To the others she instructs discreetly, "Keep your eyes open, my friends."
| Horatio Flynn |
GM - if we're all there; would that also include Cyclone? Also; what direction where we walking in?
Perception Check
1d20 + 9 ⇒ (18) + 9 = 27
Edit:
Horatio's eyes widen in surprise as he sees a bowman on one of the rooftops in the shadows.
Pulling his pistol as a move action - he raises it to fire at the enemy via an attack action and at the same time - taps up Archaeologist's Luck as a swift action - and as a free action he yells out: "Ambush!"
Not sure where I am supposed to be on the map at this point, or the bowman. I'm guessing it's Initiative time? I'll toss that up, as well as an attack roll (if needed) as soon as I get the go-ahead.
| Rain Taneththir |
At Flynn's warning of an ambush, Rain pulls the pike from its strap on her back and holds it before her, trying to spy the direction of the enemy as Flynn had given no indication where the threat was precisely coming from.
Rain asks furtively, "Where are they, Flynn? How many?" She saw his pistol drawn and pointed and looked into the darkness above, hoping to spot movement or shadows.
| Seijiro |
Seijiro turns to look in the direction Flynn is aiming his pistol, struggling to see who or what is about to ambush them...
| Dhaavan |
Jack's Perception 1d20 + 14 ⇒ (15) + 14 = 29
Dhaavan's perception 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (4) + 7 = 11
Totally missed that one, but Jack knows where the ambushers are.
Utterly oblivious, Dhaavan laughs at Variel's assessment of he and that she-devil.
He is about to reply when Jack chirps in his ear. Dhaavan glances around, and just as Flynn shouts, he utters a few words and Vanishes
If yea don't mind Immortal.
I dig Variel's Marching Order
Variel Nightstorm
|
Variel hears the call out from Flynn about an ambush.
If he has the time Variel will cast mirror image. If he is too surprised he will just stand there mouth agape.
| DM Immortal |
Camm Perception 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (7) + 2 = 9
Flynn and Jack can act in the surprise round. Everyone else has to wait for their initiative in the first round to go. As you all were out at a tavern, where they typically don't allow large hulking bird-horses, Cyclone isn't with you. You two were planning on splitting off to head to where he was stabled.
Remember in the surprise round you only get a move OR a standard action not both. In addition there is dim lighting on anywhere except on the street giving 20% concealment.
Initiative
Horatio 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (2) + 3 = 5
Rain 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (2) + 2 = 4
Dhaavan 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 2 = 8
Seijiro 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (2) + 5 = 7
Variel 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (10) + 3 = 13
Camm 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (1) + 3 = 4
Ambushers 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (18) + 6 = 24
Surprise round order:
Ambushers
Jack (who goes on Dhaavan's Initiative)
Horatio
First round when it comes:
Ambushers
You all
Remember to put the miss chance into your attacks when applicable and do it in this format so there is no confusion. Miss Chance 1-80 Hit, 81-100 Miss or something like that.
-----------------------------------------------------
SURPRISE ROUND
6 Figures wearing gear similar to that Seijiro occasionally wears pop out from the rooftops surrounding you.
Ninja 1
Throws an object behind you all and immediately a burst of choking smoke engulfs the alley.
Rain and Variel, I need Fortitude Saves (if you have some sort of protection or bonus against poison then it will apply)
------------------------------
Ninja 2
Fires an arrow at Horatio.
Attack 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (10) + 7 = 17 MISS (You retain Dex to AC due to uncanny doge)
Damage 1d6 ⇒ 3 (No Sneak Attack due to your uncanny dodge)
------------------------------
Ninja 3
Fires an arrow at Dhaavan
Attack 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (1) + 7 = 8 potential fumble
Damage 1d6 + 1d6 ⇒ (5) + (2) = 7
Fumble Confirm 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (2) + 7 = 9 CRITICAL FUMBLE!
...and the card is BROKEN reflex save or weapon is destroyed. 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (19) + 7 = 26 SAVE MADE Weapon is still functional.
------------------------------
Ninja 4
Fires an arrow at Dhaavan as well (it's almost like they know you are a spellcaster or something ;-) )
Attack 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (3) + 7 = 10 MISS
Damage 1d6 + 1d6 ⇒ (1) + (3) = 4
------------------------------
Ninja 5
Fires an Arrow at Dhaavan as well
Attack 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (15) + 7 = 22 HIT
Damage 1d6 + 1d6 ⇒ (1) + (3) = 4
------------------------------
Ninja 6
Throws another bomb which blocks off the other end of the alley.
------------------------------
JACK AND HORATIO's TURN then it wraps back around to top of the order of round 1.
Variel Nightstorm
|
Fort save 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (10) + 5 = 15...still standing mouth agape at the affrontery of these unknown assailant to attack the officers of The Dread Lady.
No miss chance for Rain and Variel due to low light vision correct?
| DM Immortal |
Well you are currently in a cloud of smoke and therefore cant see anything but when you are able to look closer, it looks like you should be able to see them clearly but their forms are still blurry for some reason.
| DM Immortal |
BTW I'm not sure if you all saw it but I did post a map above for your viewing pleasure.
| Horatio Flynn |
Horatio will have than taken out his pistol as part of his attack action, rather than a move action, and fire at Ninja 2.
Attack with Pistol: Factoring in all bonus’s and penalties against a touch attack:
1d20 + 8 ⇒ (11) + 8 = 19
1d8 + 4 ⇒ (7) + 4 = 11
Miss Chance: 1-80 Hits
1d100 ⇒ 58
The scarlet silks which drape over his armor flow around his body and trails a carmine colored haze through the dim fog. His eyes are narrow and angry as he makes his attack.
As a free action he also yells out:
"Baka ninja!"
| DM Immortal |
Horatio, we are still in the surprise round, so you have a move or a standard action not both. Drawing your weapon is a move action and that would be your round. Unless you have quick draw you cant draw and attack during the surprise round. You are activating your Archaeologists luck which is a swift action, then you have EITHER a move or a standard. You cant draw your weapon and fire.
| Rain Taneththir |
Fort save: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (8) + 9 = 17
Spellcraft: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (19) + 6 = 25
Not being able to focus clearly on their forms, Rain calls out to her friends,
"It's a Blur spell or some such effect that duplicates it. That's why we cannot focus on them."
| Seijiro |
Seijiro snarls, an unusual expression for him and he whispers under his breath, "Assassins..." as he pauses in momentary surprise.
Variel Nightstorm
|
Spellcraft 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (6) + 7 = 13
Variel is unable to confirm Rain's assessment of the situation but trusts her knowledge as to what is going on. Instead of worrying about their fuzzy appearance, Variel concentrates on how he can get to and attack these assassins.
How tall are the buildings Imm? Basically wondering if I am enlarged if I can reach them or if I will need to climb up to get to them.
| Jack Thrush |
Not sure how the stealth rules work exactly for this situation, but if this is valid...
Jack will dart from Dhaavan's shoulder and into the smoke cloud...
Fort Save: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (19) + 2 = 21
In order to gain Concealment from the Ninja, at which point he flits between the houses to moving toward the area behind the assassins. from between the buildings.
1d20 + 18 ⇒ (11) + 18 = 29 moving to (D, -1)
He uses 20 ft of normal move to get to (F,-1) and gain altitude at the top of the smoke cloud, then moves half speed in stealth for another 10 ft to get to (D, -1) for his 40 ft of movement.
If that don't work, then Jack will remain with Dhaavan...
| DM Immortal |
The buildings are 15 feet tall. So if you were enlarged you could hit them with reach. They will have cover though due to them being on the rooftops and you having to reach over to get to them.
| Horatio Flynn |
Horatio, we are still in the surprise round, so you have a move or a standard action not both. Drawing your weapon is a move action and that would be your round. Unless you have quick draw you cant draw and attack during the surprise round. You are activating your Archaeologists luck which is a swift action, then you have EITHER a move or a standard. You cant draw your weapon and fire.
It's cool, I have my rolls up. My weapons are out. So here's what I'll do since this thing with the "surprise round" confused me - just have the ninja's go; have them go again since they got their initiative. After you have the ninja's go twice in a row - you've seen my rolls; I'll just move and declare who I attack at that point, and you know what I've done already. No worries :)
Also, you only rolled Initiative for one ninja. Are the rest of the ninja's able to attack in this round, or only the one ninja with a bow?
| DM Immortal |
The Ninjas all go together, hence the reason why by their initiative it says AmbusherS instead of Ambusher ;-)
TOP OF ROUND 1
The ninjas continue their attacks against you all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja 1 pulls out a small bag and hurls it at Rain
Ranged touch attack vs Rain Touch AC 10 due to being flat-footed 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (4) + 6 = 10 HIT
Miss chance for concealment due to smoke 01-50 misses, 51-100 hits 1d100 ⇒ 70 HIT
Rain is now Entangled for 2d4 ⇒ (3, 4) = 7 rounds in the Tanglefoot bag, I need a reflex save dc 15 or be glued to the floor unable to move. Whether you save or not, until you scrape it off by doing 15 points of damage with a slashing weapon, or the duration expires and it crumbles off, you suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a further -4 penalty to dexterity. Also, attempting to cast a spell while entangled requires a Concentration check dc 15 + the level of the spell or it fails.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja 2 pulls a similar bag out and throws it at Horatio
Randed touch attack vs Horatio Touch AC 13 not flat footed due to uncanny dodge and having already acted. 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (18) + 6 = 24 HIT
Horatio is now Entangled for 2d4 ⇒ (2, 4) = 6 rounds in the Tanglefoot bag, I need a reflex save dc 15 or be glued to the floor unable to move. Whether you save or not, until you scrape it off by doing 15 points of damage with a slashing weapon, or the duration expires and it crumbles off, you suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a further -4 penalty to dexterity. Also, attempting to cast a spell while entangled requires a Concentration check dc 15 + the level of the spell or it fails.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja 3 pulls an additional tanglefoot bag and throws it at Dhaavan.
Ranged touch attack vs Dhaavan touch AC 10 due to being flatfooted 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (3) + 6 = 9 MISS
1d8 ⇒ 6 square F2 is now difficult terrain as signified by green star on map.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja 4 pulls a tanglefoot bag and throws it at Dhaavan
Ranged touch attack vs Dhaavan touch AC 10 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (11) + 6 = 17 HIT
Dhaavan is now Entangled for 2d4 ⇒ (1, 1) = 2 rounds in the Tanglefoot bag, I need a reflex save dc 15 or be glued to the floor unable to move. Whether you save or not, until you scrape it off by doing 15 points of damage with a slashing weapon, or the duration expires and it crumbles off, you suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a further -4 penalty to dexterity. Also, attempting to cast a spell while entangled requires a Concentration check dc 15 + the level of the spell or it fails.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja 5 takes a 5 foot step to I4 and fires an arrow at Seijiro
Ranged attack vs flat footed AC 11 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (15) + 7 = 22 HIT
Damage 1d6 + 1d6 ⇒ (1) + (2) = 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja 6 fires an arrow at Camm
Ranged attack vs Flat footed AC 17 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (2) + 7 = 9 MISS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You all are up! Don't forget to make your reflex saves to not be glued to the floor.
| Seijiro |
Seijiro (on his init of 7) draws his bow and fires at Ninja 3, taking cover from 4,5 and 6 by pressing himself against the building behind him. He takes a very brief moment looking for doors in these buildings to see if there is an escape route from the ambush from above.
to hit: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (16) + 7 = 23
dmg if hits: 1d6 ⇒ 3
Variel Nightstorm
|
Variel casts a quick spell surrounding himself with a couple of likenesses of himself. Hoping that the deception is enough to cause them to miss him, Variel grabs hold of the side of the building hoping to find some purchase in the planks on the wall or wny window sills and quickly climbs to the top. Strange, they aren't attacking me at all. Wonder what they're planning and what their agenda is?
Be right back, Rain, hopefully this works.
Mirror images 1d4 + 1 ⇒ (1) + 1 = 2
Quick climb to I-0, DC:? 1d20 + 6 - 5 ⇒ (18) + 6 - 5 = 19
| Seijiro |
miss chance 1-20: 1d100 ⇒ 37
| DM Immortal |
Seijiro hits with a nice shot from his bow.
---------------------------------------
Horatio, now that you are entangled, do you still want to shoot or are you going to change your action?
| Dhaavan |
Reflex: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (7) + 3 = 10 Failure
re-roll: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (17) + 3 = 20 and that's a pass!
Seeming to be hit, Dhaavan manages to slip off his coat as the alchemical goo hardens and immobilizes him.
Again, this is based on how exactlystealth works, But Jack quietly flits the rest of he way around the rooftop to (D,0)
stealth: 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (6) + 18 = 24
...to surprise the Ninja 1
As Dhaavan struggles to cast a cantrip
DC 16 concentration check: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (9) + 8 = 17
...Touch of Fatigue
Which Jack Delivers from stealth
1d20 + 4 ⇒ (9) + 4 = 13 Vs. Flat-footed Touch AC due to stealth
miss: 1d100 ⇒ 53 1-20 miss Is this applicable due to Jack's Low-light Vision?
to fatigue the Ninja 1
| Rain Taneththir |
Ninja 1 pulls out a small bag and hurls it at Rain
Ranged touch attack vs Rain Touch AC 10 due to being flat-footed 1d20+6 HIT
Miss chance for concealment due to smoke 01-50 misses, 51-100 hits 1d100 HIT
Rain is now Entangled for 2d4 rounds in the Tanglefoot bag, I need a reflex save dc 15 or be glued to the floor unable to move. Whether you save or not, until you scrape it off by doing 15 points of damage with a slashing weapon, or the duration expires and it crumbles off, you suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a further -4 penalty to dexterity. Also, attempting to cast a spell while entangled requires a Concentration check dc 15 + the level of the spell or it fails.
Reflex Save (DC 15): 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (6) + 8 = 14 (sigh, missed it by that much)
Rain's misfortunes continue as she finds herself glued to the spot and unable to move her feet. She growls her frustration. "Variel, I'm stuck and cannot move!" Rain attempts to pull herself free of the tar/resin.
Strength check (DC 17): 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 2 = 13 Her efforts fail as she is just not strong enough to break free at this moment, and frantically pulls out her cutlass and begins slashing at the substance.
A creature trying to scrape goo off itself, or another creature assisting, does not need to make an attack roll; hitting the goo is automatic, after which the creature that hit makes a damage roll to see how much of the goo was scraped off.
Damage to goo: 1d6 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 2 = 6 (next round)
GM, I'm not sure if she can attempt to break herself free using her own strength and then pull out her cutlass and slash at the goo in the same round. If she can only do the first, please count the slash action in the next round for her. Thanks.
| Horatio Flynn |
Seijiro hits with a nice shot from his bow.
---------------------------------------
Horatio, now that you are entangled, do you still want to shoot or are you going to change your action?
Not sure. I have a question about the "cover" provided them via the rooftops: does that apply to ranged weapons also, or just to melee attacks if Variel was enlarged? Also, the cover bonus seems to be standard against AC, not "touch AC". Is that correct?
When I know more about that, it will effect what I am doing next.
| Dhaavan |
Cover applies to Ranged attacks and to Touch AC as a rule, but in this situation, the GM did say that they got cover versus Melee attacks due to needing to reach over the rooftop, but Jiro didn't have to worry about cover, so you shouldn't either in this situation.
| Seijiro |
Seijiro fired at one across the street, so he wouldn't have to worry about cover. Now, granted, I didn't even ask about cover, but I assumed the ones directly above him would have some vs his attack. I could be wrong.
| Horatio Flynn |
Dhaavan, Seirjio; thank you both with the help; but I think that in this case, as it's a rules question, having a hard answer from the GM would probably be the best solution; especially as it seems that Dhaavan suggests I wouldn't have a problem, while Seijiro suggests I would. Which is it? I don't know...
On the plus side, number 2 is across the street from me as well; not directly above me, for a direct total angle difference of 20 feet.
Sorry to press about the cover issue; it's never come up before now, and I guess I'd like to know for future reference, not just this fight. I am not sure, my gut tells me that Dhaavan is correct, and that a wall would offer no protection from touch attacks; any more than a tower shield does. But that's why I'm asking.
I just need to know from the GM the ruling on cover - is it touch, or standard? As a gunslinger with Grit and the need to resolve things via "touch attack" verses direct attack - this question directly applies to my character on a pretty large level via combat.
| DM Immortal |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Dhaavan, you need to be in contact with Jack when you cast the spell in order for him to be the toucher. From the SRD, Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
-------------------------------------------
Horatio, cover does affect touch attacks as well as it works against ranged and melee attacks in general. A ranged touch attack is still a ranged attack, it just is targeting the touch ac of the target. So to sum up, cover works for touch attacks as well as regular attacks.
--------------------------------------------
Rain, you are correct. You can only do the strength check this round, you will have to wait for next round to do your damage.
| DM Immortal |
Actually seijiro did have to worry about cover, his attack was good enough however that it didn't matter, i.e. he hit even with the cover.
| Horatio Flynn |
Dhaavan, you need to be in contact with Jack when you cast the spell in order for him to be the toucher. From the SRD, Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
-------------------------------------------
Horatio, cover does affect touch attacks as well as it works against ranged and melee attacks in general. A ranged touch attack is still a ranged attack, it just is targeting the touch ac of the target. So to sum up, cover works for touch attacks as well as regular attacks.
--------------------------------------------
Rain, you are correct. You can only do the strength check this round, you will have to wait for next round to do your damage.
GM: Thank you for the forma clarification on how Range Touch attacks work against cover.
First I will attempt a Reflex Save
1d20 + 9 ⇒ (9) + 9 = 18
Sensing that I’d be wasting my time to attack these men – I will instead simply cast “Cause Fear” and gamble on success. At this time I will be “aiming” for Ninja 2.
Concentration Check
1d20 + 5 ⇒ (13) + 5 = 18
If successful: this spell works for 1d4 rounds
1d4 ⇒ 3
| DM Immortal |
Will Save vs DC 13 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (9) + 1 = 10
Ninja 2 gets a wild look to its eyes and turns to run off across the rooftops.
Ninja 2 has used all its actions this round and so will begin to flee on its turn next round.
| Dhaavan |
Derp... ok, I dodn't see that part of the rule... Instead of sending Jack out, could I just keep him with me and be able to instead Cast Vanish? that one's a DC 17, which I rolled.
- or would you want the die roll I used for Jack's stealth?
- or a new roll
| Horatio Flynn |
Derp... ok, I dodn't see that part of the rule... Instead of sending Jack out, could I just keep him with me and be able to instead Cast Vanish? that one's a DC 17, which I rolled.
- or would you want the die roll I used for Jack's stealth?
- or a new roll
Ooh! As a free action, watching the ninja panic at the spell cast by the ship's siege gunner, Horatio will look at Dhaavan the Sorcerer Supreme and seems to be saying -
Horatio's Communication to Dhaavan
Sorry Dhaavan, couldn't resist ;)
| DM Immortal |
Ok I've given Camm 24 hours to post so I am going to npc him for this round.
Camm pulls his bow and attempts to put an arrow through Ninja 3.
1d20 + 8 ⇒ (2) + 8 = 10 MISS
1d8 + 2 ⇒ (7) + 2 = 9
| DM Immortal |
Round 1 sum up. Let me know if I have made a mistake. Rain, Variel, and Horatio are all entangled. Rain is glued to the floor and can't move. Variel climbed up the side of the building and is now on the roof. Horatio managed to frighten Ninja 2. Seijiro was able to hit Ninja 3 with an arrow.
| Horatio Flynn |
Round 1 sum up. Let me know if I have made a mistake. Rain, Variel, and Horatio are all entangled. Rain is glued to the floor and can't move. Variel climbed up the side of the building and is now on the roof. Horatio managed to frighten Ninja 2. Seijiro was able to hit Ninja 3 with an arrow.
Dhaavan used "Vanish" and is now gone from sight. Jack is flying around, and Camm fired an arrow.
I believe that now is the Ninja's move - than we can give our rebuttal.