(2) - Dawn of the Metahumans

Game Master mdt

Sadly, usable by others specifically calls out that it just lets -you- become a tricorder if I share it with you. :(

Well, they have to find it, too. They're not the ones with the nice HUD showing a giant red X on the enemy Brick's left kidney.

Using STR costs END — 1 END per 10 points of STR used in most cases (as an optional rule, some Heroic campaigns charge 1 END per 5 STR used, due to the prevalence of armed combat in those genres). However, a character only has to pay the END cost for his STR once per Phase, regardless of how many different ways he uses it in a single Phase. For example, suppose a character has STR 50. If he uses Casual STR to break out of a Grab, then uses STR to punch an enemy for 10d6 damage in that same Phase, he only pays 5 END, even though he’s used his STR in two different ways that Phase.This rule includes the inches of Leaping a character receives from his STR — as long as he uses no more inches of Leaping than that, the END cost is part of the overall END expenditure for using STR in that Phase. If the character uses any additional inches of Leaping (extra inches he’s purchased, for example), then he pays END for those inches at the normal rate.

On the other hand, this rule does not apply to STR-based attacks (punches, HAs, HKAs, and so on) with the Autofire Advantage, to the use of STR to Sweep one or more targets, or to any other situation or game element that would allow a character to make two or more STR-based attacks in a Phase. In those situations, the character has to pay END once for each attack.

I read that as that people doing move-by's also need to pay str end for each hit. (Like Rocket)

That seems to be the case, yes. Move by/through on multiple targets eats END.

Ok Jubal, work went well, I have a first draft of Mud.

Mud

So, what he has :

30 str all the time (6d6)
50% Physical Damage Reduction (Resistant)
25% Energy Damage Reduction (Resistant)
Mud/Dust/Sand form : Desolidification (not through solid objects)
Armor : Moderate
+20 Str when not desolid, reduced endurance + Reduced End on normal str
+20 Str, normal endurance, and up to +35 Additional Str (Total 85 Str)
3" Radius no Range entangle (only works while concentrating, fades when not)
Tremorsense (sense anything around him touching the ground, only natural rock/stone/dirt)

Things he could work toward later :

Flight : Only while desolid, only through natural dirt/rock.

Hmm... so Mud is like a lesser Goo. It's not gonna be realllllly hard to injure that guy, and Janice is definitely going to want to look at him under the microscope. (Also, I didn't mean lightsaber; Jack could've gone with, like, a carbon fiber "cortosis" sword that cut through most things, but if you want to change your character, it's all up to you etc.)

As for flight—that can also be achieved with burrowing (fills in behind), but I don't know which option is more the effect you want.

Cool draft.

Can we add full life support? Maybe some Power Defense?

Can he get a little Stretching to extend his reach? Maybe put it in the Multi to trade against the extra Str?

How about this: Down the drain Teleport 1” (Megascale; Only through water; Random destination; lose clothes)

Does he need any transform power, in order to fully cover himself in mud?

I don't fully understand a couple of the powers:

- Desolidification (affected by earth, water, ice/cold, fire/heat). Does this mean he can't desol in Water or Earth? No earth gliding?

- The first Multi-slot gives him 30 Str affecting physical world while using Desol, right?

- the second slot gives him 55 Str affecting desol that is described as dirt, dust, mud or liquid, right? So, this is his default slot and using 55 Str costs 1 END?

- the third slot is cool but seems to cost more END than he has. So, impractical? Maybe top it out at +5 Str costs +4 END, because Pushing provides +5 Str costs +5 END, right?

I wrote up an origin in the profile while Paizo was offline.

cheers

@Mud: You seem defensive enough that PD might be overkill or hard to explain without training, though if you're coming in later maybe you've been training for a while. Also, did you want Stretching with disadvantages? Because otherwise it's so good it's hard to not use.

Also, I think MDT's suggestion was that you start out with limited mud powers, and you won't be able to glide through earth until you train it more.

I'm rather torn with switching back to a more projector build. Even though it's counter to my original concept of the character, it seems like being a flier will make it more efficient to fling the quills rather than closing to fight hand-to-hand with enemies.

Plus, it shores up a gap in the team's needs, as discussed earlier. Would that be not only preferred, but also more effective?

I finally looked at Goo's char sheet and found the similarity with the first draft of Mud. Is it ironic that Goo wanted to change away from the build, and I wanted to change toward the build?

With Chess leaving the game, we're down to 4 PCs at table 2. Would we re-balance the tables?

@Janice, Stretching costs END, is pretty pricey, and could occupy a portion of his Multi that can't be used to increase his Str.

cheers

I'm not going to advocate any major changes to characters. I'll totally advocate minor ones. Like shifting some of the power you have for raw punch into more quill effectiveness? Awesome. It plays up part of the flair of your character. But it's worth noting that Hawk(gender-specific-noun-here) work because they basically turn themselves into ballistic missiles. A moveby from whip would be pretty devastating for the baddies, as an example.

Going full ranged would be stronger than trying to pull off ranged and melee but going full melee would be stronger than splitting as well.

If you want to go ranged go for it but if not we can pretty easily cover our weakness,
Rocket can move faster than most projectiles
Aegis can make anything into a range weapon
Pulse has medium range
Violet has mental which is ranged
Goo can be thrown/carried

TL;DR Going full one way or the other is more effective than splitting both but preference wise it doesn't' really matter to our groups play style.

As for flight—that can also be achieved with burrowing (fills in behind), but I don't know which option is more the effect you want.

The difference is :

Flight + Desolid = Move through dirt/earth without disrupting it, but can't leave a tunnel for others. DEF of earth/dirt doesn't matter.

Tunnel = Move through earth/dirt, can leave a tunnel for others, but disrupts ground and limited by defense of earth/dirt.

I'm rather torn with switching back to a more projector build. Even though it's counter to my original concept of the character, it seems like being a flier will make it more efficient to fling the quills rather than closing to fight hand-to-hand with enemies.

Actually, flight can make you really, really good at melee attacks. Remember that Hero is often about single, powerful hits that can send your enemies flying; then flying after them and following up can be a great tactic. You could look into something like Snapdragon's "Flying Kick" power. Alternately,

But it's worth noting that Hawk(gender-specific-noun-here) work because they basically turn themselves into ballistic missiles. A moveby from whip would be pretty devastating for the baddies, as an example.

Hotaru's got the right of it. If you're flying downwards, your flight speed doubles, and you can get MASSIVE damage out of a move-through attack (though your OCV goes down accordingly). Flight is actually much more beneficial, damage-wise, for fliers.

Going full ranged would be stronger than trying to pull off ranged and melee but going full melee would be stronger than splitting as well.

But with this game's balance, we're not trying to min-max anything, so go with whichever you prefer from a fun perspective and the GM will help with the numbers.

* * *

Also, I've talked to Goo about how to use his morpher powers effectively; with stretching and some martial techniques he's planning to pick up, he'll be able to fight as well at range as in melee, and will probably be boosting the ranged strength of your table in the next fight.

* * *

(And the earth glide thing makes sense; I was picturing it as more of a "loose earth only," which would be def based, but an "I can be the dirt itself" explanation probably works well as glide)

Multiple move-bys seem to be an exception to that rule:

A character can perform more than one Move By in a Phase. A character can do a Multiple Move By on one target or on several diff erent ones. A Multiple Move By takes a cumulative -2 OCV for all the attacks the character makes that Phase. Th us, when a character decides to do a Multiple Move By on four agents, he suff ers a -8 OCV when attack-ing each agent. Once the attacker misses one of his Move Bys, all subsequent Move Bys automatically miss as well. The character spends END for STR once for the Phase, plus the END for movement.

I'd assume that that would carry over to the martial maneuvers that seem to be improvements of movebys (like the ones Sammy has). mdt, does that make sense?

Cool draft.

Can we add full life support? Maybe some Power Defense?

We could, what would you give up for it?

Can he get a little Stretching to extend his reach? Maybe put it in the Multi to trade against the extra Str?

I can see about that.

How about this: Down the drain Teleport 1” (Megascale; Only through water; Random destination; lose clothes)

I would not, if I were you, use that power, given you wanted a susceptibility to being submerged. :)

Does he need any transform power, in order to fully cover himself in mud?

Not unless you want him to. Right now, activating his armor makes him mud. You can put 'Only in hero ID' on powers and buy instant change, but if you do, he can't use his powers looking like a human. As he is, he can just activate the powers he needs to, so, activating desolid would let him look similar the T3 from Terminator, his 'human' body deforming and leaving dust/mud behind as he walked through jail cell bars, for example.

I don't fully understand a couple of the powers:

- Desolidification (affected by earth, water, ice/cold, fire/heat). Does this mean he can't desol in Water or Earth? No earth gliding?

That means any special effect attack that is based off earth, water, ice/cold, or fire/heat affect you while desolid. Earth gliding would require the desolidification and flight or tunneling. Something you can work toward?

- The first Multi-slot gives him 30 Str affecting physical world while using Desol, right?

Correct.

- the second slot gives him 55 Str affecting desol that is described as dirt, dust, mud or liquid, right? So, this is his default slot and using 55 Str costs 1 END?

1 END for the str in the slot, and another 2 end for his base str. So 3 End total for all strength, rather than 6.

- the third slot is cool but seems to cost more END than he has. So, impractical? Maybe top it out at +5 Str costs +4 END, because Pushing provides +5 Str costs +5 END, right?

Note that the slot is a multi, not an ultra, so you pick how much str you want to use.

10 Str : 1 End
20 Str : 2 End
30 Str : 3 End
40 Str : 4 End
50 Str : 5 End
55 Str : 7 End
60 Str : 10 End
65 Str : 14 End
70 Str : 19 End
75 Str : 25 End
80 Str : 32 End
85 Str : 40 End
90 Str : 49 End

So, how much you want to push is up to you. It's basically what's called 'easily pushed strength', except where most people can only push their str 10, you can pus it 10 to 40. But, you'll burn through all your endurance pushing it to 40. It's basically an 'OMG' thing, like saying 'I need to hold the building up until they get out!' or 'I need to catch that falling plane!' thing.

With Chess leaving the game, we're down to 4 PCs at table 2. Would we re-balance the tables?
cheers

Possibly. Would someone like to switch tables? I know Aegis and Pulse want to play on the same table. But if someone else wanted to switch to make it 2 groups of 5, I'd be fine with that (or if two people want to switch, and one person from Table 2 switch to Table 1).

I'm inclined to keep our table together now that we've been forming as a group, unless someone wants to move...but I guess we'll all meet each other from time to time anyway, with all of us being superheroes metas.

Multiple move-bys seem to be an exception to that rule:

Multiple move-bys wrote:

A character can perform more than one Move By in a Phase. A character can do a Multiple Move By on one target or on several diff erent ones. A Multiple Move By takes a cumulative -2 OCV for all the attacks the character makes that Phase. Th us, when a character decides to do a Multiple Move By on four agents, he suff ers a -8 OCV when attack-ing each agent. Once the attacker misses one of his Move Bys, all subsequent Move Bys automatically miss as well. The character spends END for STR once for the Phase, plus the END for movement.

I'd assume that that would carry over to the martial maneuvers that seem to be improvements of movebys (like the ones Sammy has). mdt, does that make sense?

The rule I quoted was an update to the rules. It comes from the Ultimate Brick (replicated from Combat Handbook), both of which were supplements. So the revised ruling for the END on str and autofire/multiple move-bys/etc is basically errata for the base book.

Yes, it would apply to any manuever that allows multiple hits, be it legsweeps or flying throws or what have you.

I would prefer to keep our group intact.

@Whip I do think dive bombing will accomplish what you want without major changes.

My problem with being totally awesome and nice and switching tables to make things easier... is that I kinda like who we have, and I don't know anything about who we don't. I know what they do, but I didn't read up on them at all. :0 Sorry Kittiface!

Two things

A) Nobody has to move, it's only an option. I did two tables because I figured I'd lose people rapidly. It always happens.

B) I would appreciate everyone reading the other table's combat, as there's quite a bit between them and should cover most combat situations.

I would prefer to keep our group intact.

@Whip I do think dive bombing will accomplish what you want without major changes.

I'm inclined to agree about the groups.

That's another blind spot I've had with the system -- the fact that "charging" can add to damage. It certainly sounds like that's something I'll have to try out and see how it works.

Here is Team B's combat start

and

Here is Team A's combat start

So folks don't have to go looking. :)

mdt, ahhh, good to know. I'll budget for more END for multiple attacks. Switching to martial maneuvers helps a bit with that.

Whip, FYI, velocity adds damage only to specific maneuvers. The default moves that it adds to are Move Through (ramming into someone, you take 1/2 the damage you deal) and Move By (a running punch, you take 1/3 the damage you deal). As a martial artist, if you want to charge & add velocity you'll want to buy (at least one) maneuver that adds velocity.

Hotaru, thanks for the links!

EDIT: mdt, can you describe the difference between these two moves:
5 Flying Throw -1 -2 Grab Two Limbs; STR + v/5; Target Falls; FMove
5 Passing Throw 0 0 STR + v/5, Target Falls, FMove

I *think* Passing Throw is pretty straightforward: If I hit, the foe falls. I can make a full move while attacking, and I do STR+ V/5.

Flying Throw...I *think* lets me pick up a foe, carry them, and then throw them (to mostly the same effect, but I also get to pick where they go on my running path. Is that right? And does it take more than one roll? MOre than one phase?

Here's what I learned: Entangles are rude.

I have no idea what Chess does but it's almost entirely teleports, from what I see.

Don't hit the heavies in the face.

Invisibility is only as useful as you are actually invisible. Likewise, invest in invisible attacks if invisible. Fringes suck.

Other than that... I dunno!

So, I need a special move? Wow, that's harsh. How costly would it be to pick it up? I can't see having it prior to the wings, so it would make sense to add it later.

Looking into the book a bit, and remembering things that have come up earlier, the stuff I'd be interested in picking up sooner over later:

Telekinesis, Fine Manipulation, Ferrous Metals Only.
Telepathy, Machines Only.
Digital Radio Senses
Team Comm Devices
Force Wall, Centered on Self, at least large enough to cover one other hex (maybe more)

Group A, Do we want to put any points toward a base?

@Goo: I'm happy to put forth any amount of points for team-based coolstuff! :)

@Whipporwill: You already start out being able to move-through; when diving, your 12" flying becomes 24" and can add up to 8d6 damage (though each extra die reduces OCV). A custom martial arts strike for flying attack would be similar to one of Rocket's speedster moves. I'm guessing probably 3-5 CP, so you'd have no trouble training in it soon, and you could do really good amounts of damage with it. (Janice's Flying Kick is a little different, since it's based on being able to outmaneuver her target rather than raw speed, so it just adds damage to any attack she makes while flying at half-speed or faster)

* * *

I'm planning on eventually getting some DNA analysis/sequencer machinery for Group B's base, so that Janice can analyze metahuman DNA (in whatever way and whatever point in the campaign MDT thinks is appropriate). If our teams wind up in contact, maybe we could eventually set up some kind of info-swap, for instance if Pulse gets some sort of internet tracking shenanigans, where our characters use each other as "contacts." Maybe not, but it's a thought.

The thing about Entangles, unless you can carefully manage how much BODY you deal and still get respectable STUN numbers, it's usually better to just let the Entangled target sit there and waste endurance trying to get free than attack them.

MDT made Drider cleverly enough that I can Claw people in my Entangle without worrying about setting them free.

Which brings up a question that I'll check on after I ask it. Calling an Autofire attack ensures they all hit that location, correct?

If we all contributed between 2&4 points we could have a nice start. Goo also would like a lab to help his efforts to find a cure for his condition (at some point).

@Snap, I like the idea of some interaction between the groups.

Yeah, group interaction would be great.

@ Snap: Thanks! Does it still rebound and do damage back to me?

Group A, Do we want to put any points toward a base?

I strongly suggest it.

Also, I claim the room with the big window and the private bathroom.

Just as long as I get the room with the skylight.

I'd love guidance/thoughts from mdt but I'm quite happy to pool XP toward base/vehicle. That's a piece of Champions I never really looked into.

Whip, Snap did a better job of describing your options than I did. Yes, a movethrough always does 1/2 damage back to you (though your Defenses might take up most/all of that). Rocket bought "Reinforced gloves" as PD to protect only from that. The martial move-by-ish maneuvers, you'd need to have mdt weigh in on (or maybe look in the Ultimate Martial Artist, if you have access to it) but I'd assume that they do.

I'm fine with a base if the others want it, we'll likely be kicked out of the Silo soon anyway to make room for the next batch of recruits and Fluff-Wise Aegis could easily afford a base for them.

**EDIT**

That does remind me outside of fluff what does the money perk grant you? Pretty much everything seems to be purchased with xp

Aegis: "Welcome to the S Mansion."
Hotaru and Rocket begin to snicker.
Aegis: "What? Is there something wrong with it?"
Hotaru barely able to contain her mirth, "What, couldn't find a private island for us?"

Yeah... Move Through deals half damage to you, but that's halved BEFORE defenses apply. Since you have a high RPD (but low PD), you could (I believe) do this as a killing attack. (I'm not sure how your whip works, and whether it can be used with a move through, but diving at combat speeds adds up to 8 DCs—your RPD can, on average, completely absorb 4d6 of killing damage, so if you're doing 8d6 killing damage or less you should be pretty much protected from the damage)

EDIT: mdt, can you describe the difference between these two moves:
5 Flying Throw -1 -2 Grab Two Limbs; STR + v/5; Target Falls; FMove
5 Passing Throw 0 0 STR + v/5, Target Falls, FMove

I *think* Passing Throw is pretty straightforward: If I hit, the foe falls. I can make a full move while attacking, and I do STR+ V/5.

Flying Throw...I *think* lets me pick up a foe, carry them, and then throw them (to mostly the same effect, but I also get to pick where they go on my running path. Is that right? And does it take more than one roll? MOre than one phase?

They are similar, but not identical.

The difference is Flying Throw grabs two limbs, while Passing Throw does not. That means Flying Throw restrains things that can be restrained with grabs (like Whippoorwill's wings and Drider's killing attacks), which turns off powers until they have an action to turn them back on.

Comments on other fight...

You also learned what to do when you run into people with similar abilities...

So, I need a special move? Wow, that's harsh. How costly would it be to pick it up? I can't see having it prior to the wings, so it would make sense to add it later.

No, you have to perform a special move. Everyone has Move-By and Move-Thru. Martial versions, which cost, are better.

SPoilered stuff

Which brings up a question that I'll check on after I ask it. Calling an Autofire attack ensures they all hit that location, correct?

Yes, because you take the attack penalty on all of the autofires.

Bases? Vehicles?

Yes, you can pool points for bases and vehicles. You need a way to justify in character certain financial outlays.

That does remind me outside of fluff what does the money perk grant you? Pretty much everything seems to be purchased with xp

Money buys you (A) Justification for having a secret base in down town <city name>, as well as (B) Any non-combat normal equipment you want to have in the base (TVs, microwaves, video games, luxury pool tables, etc), as well as (C) Any normal non-combat stuff that anyone else would have (Cars, houses, small companies, large companies), and (D) Justification for labs that are state of the art instead of scrounged out of dumpsters and pawn shops.

Yeah... Move Through deals half damage to you, but that's halved BEFORE defenses apply. Since you have a high RPD (but low PD), you could (I believe) do this as a killing attack. (I'm not sure how your whip works, and whether it can be used with a move through, but diving at combat speeds adds up to 8 DCs—your RPD can, on average, completely absorb 4d6 of killing damage, so if you're doing 8d6 killing damage or less you should be pretty much protected from the damage)

Normal PD is always equal to or higher than RPD. RPD counts as Normal PD, so it's additive.

Nobody on the teams will ever be doing an 8D6 HKA anytime soon.

The point of taking damage from move-thrus is to balance them. "I have to distract Galactus before he eats Pulse! This is going to hurt... HEY GALACTUS! LET'S SEE IF YOU'RE WEARING A CUP!"

Money buys you (A) Justification for having a secret base in down town <city name>, as well as (B) Any non-combat normal equipment you want to have in the base (TVs, microwaves, video games, luxury pool tables, etc), as well as (C) Any normal non-combat stuff that anyone else would have (Cars, houses, small companies, large companies), and (D) Justification for labs that are state of the art instead of scrounged out of dumpsters and pawn shops.

Welp... not happening too soon, then. An Illumina NextSeq (the "personal" gene sequencer I have in mind) is around $250k, plus another $1000 per analyzed blood sample (if we get a wealthy benefactor, it's only around 4-5 CPs, though, or maybe 6 if we want to be able to use it to untraceably search national criminal DNA registries)

* * *

Normal PD is always equal to or higher than RPD. RPD counts as Normal PD, so it's additive.

Sure, sure. But for Whippoorwill they're the same; and 15 PD seems low, while 15 RPD seems fine.

Welp... not happening too soon, then. An Illumina NextSeq (the "personal" gene sequencer I have in mind) is around $250k, plus another $1000 per analyzed blood sample (if we get a wealthy benefactor, it's only around 4-5 CPs, though, or maybe 6 if we want to be able to use it to untraceably search national criminal DNA registries)

Yo

Whoa... you're *literally* made of money. Heh.

I'm guessing we're supposed to be opening franchises of a larger organization. They might have their own resources, but it's unlikely that any of them have Janice's experience with genetics (or maybe some of the other specialties we've got as non-supers). You can't really buy a genome sequencer without arousing some suspicion (because of their potential use in things like bioterrorism, they're generally only sold to corporations with the right licenses, universities, and government labs).

That said, someone like Saffron could easily fund a "start-up" that's just a few offices and maybe a small chemistry lab, beneath which a secret and well-stocked laboratory exists. Any crazy science or chemicals we do or use could be ordered OSHA generally won't inspect tech companies with less than five full-time employees, which means that there's no reason it would arouse suspicion—and it's pretty common for well-funded startups of 2-3 people to buy a million dollars in starting equipment and chemicals. The big barrier to getting it set up (or setting up any "secret base cover") would be finding the right location, and actually working through the paperwork, e.g. "we get bases when and where the GM thinks it makes sense."

* * *

I'm probably thinking about this too much. That's what I get for playing a character who does something similar to my real job.

Yeah, one thing I went into this knowing was 're rarely a good idea to target someone like you with your 'thing'. You're obviously, in almost all cases, gonna be resistant to what you are.

Another thing, though, is I noticed Gridlock use acting to sucker punch someone. Let's pretend Hotaru had tried to do that to Rocket. How would I have gone about that?

Whoa... you're *literally* made of money. Heh.

That's a great new character idea: a Money Elemental. She can blast coins at people, blot out the sun with a cloud of bills, and skate around like Iceman on a money trail.

Hotaru would make an acting check.

The target would make an Ego check (or, if they had a different skill, like streetwise or gambling or deduction, they could make that to spot the bluff).

If Hotaru succeeds, she get's to take off 1 DCV from the target per 2 pts she gets over them (the difference in checks).

For example : Hotaru get's 8 for a 12-. Target get's 14 of a 12-. Hotaru succeeded by 4, target failed by 2, that's a net margin of 6. Hotaru reduces target's DCV (to her only) by up to -3DCV. If the target's DCV was 4, the max Hotaru can get is 2 DCV. If the target DCV is 10, she get's all 3 DCV off, dropping them to 7DCV. If the target critically fails (generally 17/18), the target goes to 1/2 DCV. If Hotaru Crits (Generally 3/4) she gets the same effect (unless the target crits as well, in which case we go back to the margin of success).

Alrighty. I'll read up on untrained skills today, I think. :) Thanks Kittyface! From what I can tell those are basically everyman skills, and they're really hard to do.

I'm guessing most skills can have reasonable combat applications?

Like Taru's KS comics could reasonably be put to use to tell her not to hit the human torch with fire? While Aegis could maybe determine the properties of the metal in the cars on the block and decide to throw the considerably better-structured '67 Chevy at someone (and forever become hated by Shadowcat in the process)?

Also, please tell me Gridlock gets bonuses to bluffing for his stony demeanor ;)