Can Pistol Whip be used with Trick Attack


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

PISTOL WHIP (Operative Exploit)
You can use a small arm to make a melee attack. Treat this as an attack using Improved Unarmed Strike (whether or not you have that feat), but the attack is not archaic, deals lethal damage, and has the operative weapon special property. If you have an ability that gives you a special version of Weapon Specialization that allows you to add 1-1/2 × your level to natural or unarmed attacks as damage (such as vesk natural weapons), you add your level to pistol whip unarmed strikes; otherwise you add half your level as normal for an operative weapon. When you make an unarmed attack, you must decide before making the attack roll whether you are making a normal unarmed attack or using pistol whip to attack with a small arm.

Can you use this ability with Trick Attack? Is it treated as an unarmed strike or as a small arm attack for the purposes of compatibility with Trick Attack?


I'd say you can make a trick attack. (1) I think that's the intent or they wouldn't have made this an Operative ability or mentioned the operative weapon limitaiton, and (2) it says you "use a small arm to make a melee attack." It's still attacking with a small arm...


Pistol whip lets you:
1) Make a melee attack
2) Acts as if it had the operative weapon special property.

Trick attack works with melee weapons with the operative special property, so it looks good to me.

Unarmed strikes don't normally work with trick attack only because they lack the operative special property. This exploit solves that problem by providing it.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hiruma Kai wrote:
Unarmed strikes don't normally work with trick attack only because they lack the operative special property. This exploit solves that problem by providing it.

Except you need a small arm to do it. That's not technically an unarmed strike.

(In short, it's not going to work for a LOT of character concepts.)

I should make a thread about that.


I think it depends on the GM. The trick attack wording is very explicit.

1). It's a full action.
2). You can move your speed.
3). You can make an attack with a melee weapon with the operative special property or any small arm.
4). Just before the attack, attempt a skill check. If successful you deal additional damage.

The Pistol Whip is also very explicit.

1). Small arm to make a melee attack.
2). Attack is treated as using the Improved Unarmed Strike.
3). Deals lethal damage, and is not archaic.

So, this attack would deal 1d6 at 4th level, up to 7d6 at 20th level.

Looking at the 2 abilities I can easily see how you could substitute this for the attack within the Trick attack. It looks to meet all the trick attack criteria for the type of weapon you would need to make the attack. The only difference is that the trick attack with a small arm would be ranged and this would be a melee attack.

I don't see how this wouldn't be allowed by any reasonable GM. It's not game breaking or exploitative. Typical pistols at lvl 20 deal a range of damage between 40 and 60 damage so this would fall within that range. You don't get the benefits of a critical effect with this should you roll a natural 20 as you are using the weapon as a melee weapon.

I think this should be allowed with little dispute.


I was going to say, yeah. Since this particular melee attack has the Operative quality I'd say it applies for all the Operative abilities that specifically call out needing to be done with weapons with the Operative quality.

Pistol Whip also isn't a specific action, it's an attack, so it wouldn't take away from your action pool to use it with a Full Action.


This is... not remotely in question.

Scarab Sages Starfinder Design Lead

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Yes.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Heh, seems I missed the bit about the Operative property being added on. Thanks everyone!


You should rest Owen. You've been working hard today, and it's the weekend. Go out and have some fun! :D

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