Mechanic Overcharge with powered melee weapons:


Rules Questions


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Mechanic's overcharge trick:
"...This attack uses three times as many charges from the battery or power cell as normal and can’t be used if the weapon doesn’t have enough charges..."

Powered melee weapons:
"...Unlike with a ranged weapon, the usage is for 1 minute of operation rather than per attack, though using a powered weapon for less than 1 full minute still expends 1 full usage. The number of charges expended is equal to the usage × the number of minutes the weapon is used, rounded up to the nearest minute..."

So when a mechanic overcharges a melee weapon:

1) Any minute of powered in which they overcharged will use 3x charges?
or
2) The round they overcharge counts as three rounds for power use?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would deduct three minutes from the total charges and call it a day.

Have no idea what the intended consequence could or should be though.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I would probably do the opposite, and have you count it as 3 rounds worth of use, since the other approach is multiplying power consumption by 30, instead of 3, unless you then treat overcharging as free for the rest of the minute.

I don't think you'll break the game running it either way, though


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd probably be fine with that too.


HammerJack wrote:

I would probably do the opposite, and have you count it as 3 rounds worth of use, since the other approach is multiplying power consumption by 30, instead of 3, unless you then treat overcharging as free for the rest of the minute.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to convey: any minute of use in which you overcharge >0 times, triple usage.


I think #2 is better because it preserves the one overcharge attack per standard action dynamic ...otherwise you can make a full attack the next round...but then again full attacks are usually a terrible idea anyway ....... if you go with 1, I would go with per minute anyway but i think 2 is better


Just a quick note to Xoshak on full attacks. I run a Vesk soldier and statistically, even with the - 4 modifier (which can be negated with help from allies) you are much more likely to land an attack.

Refer to this link for additional statistics. It's a link about rolling advantage in 5e, but applies to full attacks for the sake of probability. You aren't taking the higher number, but the math is the same regardless.

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/14690/how-does-rolling-two-dice-and -taking-the-higher-affect-the-average-outcome


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Full attacking at the normal -4 penalty is an improvement any time your normal attack at no penalty would hit on a die roll of 13. The idea that full attacking is usually a bad idea is completely wrong, unless you need to conserve ammo.

This is also without counting any critical effects other than the double damage, since assigning a value to them can be a bit fuzzy.

Obviously comparing an overcharged attack to full attacks changes this math, and I have found some cases where an overcharged and boosted shot would be better than a full attack even when the roll nee de ed tp hit normally was a 2. For cases like overcharge, though, I recommend just throwing average damage and hit percentage for each option into a spreadsheet to find the breakpoints, because no web link is going to have exactly what you need.

EDIT: Also, while the advantage and disadvantage stats are very useful for some things, they are not quite right for dull attacks, since they are just the probability of getting at least one success, compared to two failures. Two successes means a lot in full attacks, And nothing in advantage rolls.


Agreed. I simply wanted to point out the statistical value of rolling two d20 as opposed to a single d20. Statistically speaking you increase your success chance any time you can use more dice in a roll. Anything you can do to negate the -4 penalty will simply make the probability better. For melee attacks, flanking and envoy class abilities can completely negate this penalty making full attacks extremely powerful.


the math depends on the ac of what your fighting.. ...real fights tend to be vs people/creatures with high ones ...also a lot of unwieldy weapons do the highest damage, and one hit can yield better results against DR(at least till High level).....that being said if this character dies I'm making a Human cyborg soldier with heavy gunners harness, sharpshooter focus fire , and the gear boost that gives you +1 to hit with laser weapons, +o/+o full attack(really -1/-1 with +1 to hit w lasers)......But Methodical Doshko Murder has been working pretty good so far ...and I've tried to go unarmed multiple times to full attack with poor results ...in the end it will always be be based on the campaign and the fight


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Uh, yeah, that's why I was talking about the math in terms of the number that you have to roll to hit. Because it takes AC into account. If most fights are things where the soldier needs better than a 13 on the die for single attacks to hit, things are going to be very rough, regardless of what you do.


I was more responding to Magyar5 than you Hammerjack (I agree with what you said)...I will also admit, my post probably should have said "it's been a horrible idea for me so far" ...maybe because I don't have a str boost implant yet(waiting for +6) .. maxed besides that ..


But honestly their are 6 people in my party and the only one making full attacks is the technomancer when he casts magic missile (or maybe other spells)...and we can all do that math


The complicating factor is movement. Full attacks are only optimal if the added damage is worth more than being able to move during your round. At least in my experience, this is seldom the case. Ranged attackers want to optimize their firing angle, melee attackers want a target to hit, and everyone wants to get as much cover as possible. If either side can actually sit tight in their position full attacking, it probably means the other side has made a serious mistake.

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