attack actions during full round attacks.

[Asterothe91]

so i have a buddy who at lvl 20 can pull off 149D6+ damage in a full round attack. the DM said that the wording on the double barrel pistols says as a standard attack act they can be fired simultaneously. the dm said that bc it can be done as an attack action, he sees no reason it cant be dont during a full round attack. specifically bc it doesn't say only or bc it doesn't say that you can't. and logically if you can as an attack action you should be able to as a full round attack. can anyone plz make a definitive ruling on this?

ive seen an organizer state that it is done as a standard attack but that didn't really help bc i also asked Nethys from archives of nethys who said that organizers dont make rulings they just organize gameplay. (nothing against organizers specifically(id actuallylove to be an orgaizer). im just looking for an actual judges ruling. this is casual play, not organized or competitive.

[Volkard Abendroth]

An attack action is a standard action. It is not part of a full attack action.

This is the same reason you cannot Vital Strike multiple times per round - it specifically requires the attack action.

Attack Action wrote:

Attack Action: An attack action is a type of standard action.

[Asterothe91]

in the core rule book under attack it says

Attack
Making an attack is a standard action.

so it seems to my DM like it would work.
and vital strike specifically states that you can make one attack.
and sunder was a rule that was overturned specifically for reasons such as this. which is why im looking for an official ruling.

[Volkard Abendroth]

You won't get an official response.

[Asterothe91]

darn, i was hoping for like the wording "only as a standard action" or something like that. that alone would be definitive enough for me.

thanks though.

[The Archives of Nethys]

Asterothe91 wrote:

so i have a buddy who at lvl 20 can pull off 149D6+ damage in a full round attack. the DM said that the wording on the double barrel pistols says as a standard attack act they can be fired simultaneously. the dm said that bc it can be done as an attack action, he sees no reason it cant be dont during a full round attack. specifically bc it doesn't say only or bc it doesn't say that you can't. and logically if you can as an attack action you should be able to as a full round attack. can anyone plz make a definitive ruling on this?

ive seen an organizer state that it is done as a standard attack but that didn't really help bc i also asked Nethys from archives of nethys who said that organizers dont make rulings they just organize gameplay. (nothing against organizers specifically(id actuallylove to be an orgaizer). im just looking for an actual judges ruling. this is casual play, not organized or competitive.

To clarify, I said that *I* don't judge the gameplay - not speaking for anyone other than myself and the Archives. :)

[Firebug]

From the original printing of the book: Ultimate Equipment, the entry for Double-Barreled Pistol was:

Double-Barreled Pistol wrote:

This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as a separate action, or both can be shot at once with the same action. If both are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imposing a -4 penalty on each shot. This is an early firearm.

The changes from the first printing to the second printing of the book (which you can find on the store page) has the following changes.

Double-Barreled Pistol: Second Printing wrote:

Page 44—In the double-barreled musket description, in the first sentence, change everything after the semicolon to “each barrel can be shot independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action).”

Taken in that context, the only real changes are fired independently as 'a separate action' vs 'separate attacks' and calling out the action used to fire both barrels is a standard action, specifically the attack action.

[Asterothe91]

i apologize Nethys that was a poor assumption on my part.

[Dajur]

As Firebug alluded to, you used to be able to fire both barrels of a double-barreled pistol multiple times during a full round attack. Heck, you could even alternate between two double-barreled pistols for maximum effect. This is probably the build your buddy is using: Gatling the Minuscule.

This has all been nerfed and is no longer viable. The attack action is used in place of a standard action and cannot be used in a full round attack. You aren't the first person to be confused by the Attack Action. As written on d20PFSrd.com:

Quote:

Attack Action: An attack action is a type of standard action. Some combat options can modify only this specific sort of action.

From what I understand, the attack action was created to allow a select few abilities to work during a standard action, such as Vital Strike.

I stopped playing my gunslinger for PFS right after the rules change, as she went from doing pretty well and keeping up with the melee attackers, to lagging pretty far behind.

[blahpers]

To be fair, a gunslinger can keep up more than adequately with the best melee attackers without ever touching a double-barreled anything.

[The_Tarrasque]

It says right in the text of it that both barrels can be fired as a standard action using the attack action(a specific standard action).

Vital Strike FAQ wrote:

Vital Strike: Can I use this with Spring Attack, or on a charge?

No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.

The attack action is a specific type of attack action that can't be used as part of a full attack action.

[doomman47]

Double barrel guns were nerfed into the ground and now need a standard action to fire both barrels at the same time which means no firing both barrels at the same time in a full attack.

[Derklord]

Despite similar names, the "attack action" and the "full-attack action" are completely different actions, something that explicitly works with one does not work with the other unless noted. Understanding this is a vital part to understanding the game.

Asterothe91 wrote:

the DM said that the wording on the double barrel pistols says as a standard attack

This is not correct - the post-erratum description uses the words "standard action" with an explanation in parantheses which standard action. The phrase "standard attack" is not used - indeed, it is not a term used in Pathfinder material.